Date   

Re: Missing segments

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

David,

I have just tried running Setup4PC for about 4 minutes with data coming in.
I take channels 2-4-5-9-12 at the moment and in that very short period I
lost 3 segments. Even with this fairly low computer spec. I have never ever
had segment loss ( apart from Eumetsat problems ). I am running a more
recent version of the Tellique software and the newer card. It would appear
that Douglas is spot on -- if you attempt to even look at the status on the
card with data coming in you are going to get segment loss -- certainly that
is my findings.

Regards

Ian.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:56 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re:Missing segments


Just one other thing as a long shot. I once tried whilst MSG data
was coming in, looking at the signal level on SetUP4PC....disaster.
You must not do anything with that program during MSG reception or
data can be lost.... not even checking signal level.

Douglas,

Thanks for your comments on dish alignment etc. I'm phsching myself
up to calling the professionals again! (They did seem to take good
care when installing, that's why I'm reluctant).

I run Setup4PC all the time when receiving MSG-1 and have not, as
far as I know, ever had a problem due to this. I have the
Statistics screen on permanent display. What you say surprises me.
Has anyone else found this?

Cheers,
David


Re: Missing segments

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 3:56 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re:Missing segments


Just one other thing as a long shot. I once tried whilst MSG data
was coming in, looking at the signal level on SetUP4PC....disaster.
You must not do anything with that program during MSG reception or
data can be lost.... not even checking signal level.

Douglas,

Thanks for your comments on dish alignment etc. I'm phsching myself
up to calling the professionals again! (They did seem to take good
care when installing, that's why I'm reluctant).

I run Setup4PC all the time when receiving MSG-1 and have not, as
far as I know, ever had a problem due to this. I have the
Statistics screen on permanent display. What you say surprises me.
Has anyone else found this?

Cheers,
David
Try a few days without the statistics screen, David..... might be
interesting. All I have is the green 'signal ok' icon in the taskbar. If I
want to have a look at signal level I do it after I have shutdown Tellique.
The only other issue (don't know whether it is relevant or not) is that I
have the original Tellique software (pre MSG).
I do hope you will get this resolved. If anyone deserves hassle free
reception, it's you David !

Regards
Douglas.


Re: Missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Just one other thing as a long shot. I once tried whilst MSG data
was coming in, looking at the signal level on SetUP4PC....disaster.
You must not do anything with that program during MSG reception or
data can be lost.... not even checking signal level.

Douglas,

Thanks for your comments on dish alignment etc. I'm phsching myself
up to calling the professionals again! (They did seem to take good
care when installing, that's why I'm reluctant).

I run Setup4PC all the time when receiving MSG-1 and have not, as
far as I know, ever had a problem due to this. I have the
Statistics screen on permanent display. What you say surprises me.
Has anyone else found this?

Cheers,
David


Re: Strange mail from Eumetsat

John Parkins <kvp@...>
 

Hello Ian and Peter,

Well confusing yes but a bit of a stretch confusing Peter and myself:

Peter Benney.........................John Godfrey-Parkins
tugboat@... ................ kvp@...

Hardly similar, but Peter, if It does turn out that they send it to me
instead of you get in touch direct and let me have your address and
I'll send it on.

Wednesday, November 5, 2003, 3:40:09 PM, you wrote:

ISD> John,

ISD> Strange indeed, but I am just wondering if Eumetsat have got you mixed up
ISD> with Peter Benney as he contacted them a couple of days ago asking how he
ISD> could upgrade his Tellique software. Just a thought.

ISD> Ian




ISD> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
ISD> MSG-1-unsubscribe@...



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ISD> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




--
Best regards,
John mailto:kvp@...


Re: Strange mail from Eumetsat

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

John,

Strange indeed, but I am just wondering if Eumetsat have got you mixed up
with Peter Benney as he contacted them a couple of days ago asking how he
could upgrade his Tellique software. Just a thought.

Ian


Re: Strange mail from Eumetsat

Peter Benney <tugboat@...>
 

Dear John, It has been brought to my attention that you require a
Tellique software windows version to replace the one that you had
bought from Tsystems. I am pleased to be able to furnish you with a
copy. Could you please let me know your mailing address so that i may
send out the software ASAP.
John,

If your Dear John was from Pamela Schöbel-Pattiselanno it may well be the result of my request for an upgrade. Pamela said they will be sending me a copy of the newer version of Tellique software soon.

Regards,

Peter


Re: Missing segments

John Parkins <kvp@...>
 

Hello David,

I use a 1m dish here in London and get 80%+ and a SNR of 12+. I would
have thought that so long as your getting a fairly solid signal this
wouldn't be causing lost segments. I have to say though that apart
from the ones reported by others I don't seem to miss any, the dish
does have the mother of a bracket on it though and doesn't move a bit
even in the highest winds.


Wednesday, November 5, 2003, 8:46:48 AM, you wrote:

DT> --- In MSG-1@..., John Parkins <kvp@b...> wrote:
Hello David,

How bigger dish are you using at the moment David?
DT> 88cm - as supplied by TimeStep. My location is Edinburgh. Signal
DT> quality is normally 60^ - 70%, SNR 9.3 to 10.7dB.

DT> Cheers,
DT> David



DT> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
DT> MSG-1-unsubscribe@...



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DT> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/




--
Best regards,
John mailto:kvp@...


Strange mail from Eumetsat

John Parkins <kvp@...>
 

Hello All,


Came home this afternoon to a strange email from Eumetsat:

*********************************************************************
Dear John, It has been brought to my attention that you require a
Tellique software windows version to replace the one that you had
bought from Tsystems. I am pleased to be able to furnish you with a
copy. Could you please let me know your mailing address so that i may
send out the software ASAP.

I look forward to hearing from you soon.
*********************************************************************

Of course I have sent my mailing address straight back, but I'm not
sure why. As far as I know I already have the latest version of the
software. I'll wait and see what they send me. Has anyone else had a
similar email?



--
Best regards,
John mailto:kvp@...


Re: Missing Segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "David Strickland" <David@s...> wrote:
David,
Further to my post yesterday at 0830 I missed seg. 5 from
chans. 6,8,9,10,11 and seg.15 from chan 12. The interesting thing
here is channel 9 as it was amoung the groups of channels
yesterday
as well! I would think that if the files sent were in groups of
channels then this is an unexpected result. Signal quality is a
steady 70-71% with SNR 10.8 a 88cm dish weather is good and dish
is
very rigid mounted. Even in a strong gale little signal variation
occurs. The dropped segments look to me like a software problem.
I am trying to get a better understanding of this. I made a plot of
the percent loss of segments versus channel number, expecting to
find that the channel where the files which were larger would have a
greater segment loss, and there was less likelhood of getting a
complete file. Similarly I had expected that LRIT data would be
more robust than HRIT data, but this also not seem to be the case
when the loss was at its worst. It suggested that some file
grouping was perhaps spreading the loss more equally across all
channels.

Guesswork, I'm afraid.

I don't expect any file grouping to be constant, by the way. I
(again) guess that there is a data stream and that all files of a
certain priority will be packaged for transmission in some sort
of "best fit to available packets" fashion. I don't know if the
IMPF software processes files in a strict channel order, or if there
are parallel processing tasks so the channel order for a particular
segment is random. I should study the log files, shouldn't I?

The Sky star card is in the computer in the garage!!
.. and so perhaps is subject to a larger temperature variation than
a "domestic" computer might expect to encounter?

Cheers,
David


Re: Missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Ian S Deans" <ian@i...> wrote:

I think your dish is on the edge of the satellite ?

Dave
That's a very fair point. Very slight movement in a badly aligned
dish will lose signal rapidly.

Dave, Ian. Many thanks to you both for your comments.

.. and I found that the maximum solar outage did not correspond
_precisely_ with the WXtrack predictions. It does all point to a
slight alignment error, but how to convince the professional
installers of this? How many months guarantee you would expect on
dish alignment in any case? I would love to get the "professional
installers" out again, but am worried that they check the dish, and
say "It looks OK to us, that will be £50, please!"

Cheers,
David


Re: Dish

Trevor David <tdavid@...>
 

Ian

Very many thanks for your reply. It will be turned into a pond now.

Trevor

----- Original Message -----
From: Ian S Deans
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Dish


Trevor,

This will be a prime focus dish with no arm, so the answer is no it cannot
be used. You could probably pick up an old Sky analogue 80cm dish for next
to nothing, although they were more in use in Scotland as most of England
used 60cm dishes in the analogue days.

Regards

Ian.



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Re: Missing segments

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

That's a very fair point. Very slight movement in a badly aligned dish will
lose signal rapidly. There is no better illustration of this than the
recent move by BBC to Astra 2D with its much tighter spot beam allowing the
BBC to go FTA. Thousands of Sky customers particularly at the extremes of
the beam lost the BBC channels and it is reckoned that most of the problems
were down to badly aligned dishes. Shoddy work by professionals.

Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Timestep" <Information@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re:Missing segments



From: Dave Cawley
Timestep Dartmouth England
e-mail Information@...
Web site http://www.Time-step.com
Tel. +44 (0)1803 833366
Fax. +44 (0)1803 839498

I think your dish is on the edge of the satellite ?

Dave


Re: Dish

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

Trevor,

This will be a prime focus dish with no arm, so the answer is no it cannot
be used. You could probably pick up an old Sky analogue 80cm dish for next
to nothing, although they were more in use in Scotland as most of England
used 60cm dishes in the analogue days.

Regards

Ian.


Wavelet compression

Trevor Davies <g0jix@...>
 

Hi

I guess the message from EUMETSAT User Service stating the continuation of HRV lossless Wavelet compression will be as well received as was the launch of the service.GREAT!!

73 de Trevor G0JIX
All mail scanned with Norton.


Re: Missing segments

Timestep <Information@...>
 

From: Dave Cawley
Timestep Dartmouth England
e-mail Information@...
Web site http://www.Time-step.com
Tel. +44 (0)1803 833366
Fax. +44 (0)1803 839498

I think your dish is on the edge of the satellite ?

Dave


Re: Missing Segments

David Strickland <David@...>
 

David,
Further to my post yesterday at 0830 I missed seg. 5 from
chans. 6,8,9,10,11 and seg.15 from chan 12. The interesting thing
here is channel 9 as it was amoung the groups of channels yesterday
as well! I would think that if the files sent were in groups of
channels then this is an unexpected result. Signal quality is a
steady 70-71% with SNR 10.8 a 88cm dish weather is good and dish is
very rigid mounted. Even in a strong gale little signal variation
occurs. The dropped segments look to me like a software problem. The
Sky star card is in the computer in the garage!! It has strong
cooling and certainly no overheat problems. CPU temperature is a nice
44C and system temp is 28C. It has three temperature controlled
cooling fans and as it is quite cool outside today nothing is working
very hard. I have not restarted since yesterday deliberately to watch
what happens.

Regards David S.


Dish

Trevor David <tdavid@...>
 

Hi

I have one of RIGs 1mtr dishes with the coffee can on the end, can this be used for the reception of MSG, and if so what other items are required? It seems a waste to get rid of it only to replace it with a smaller dish

regards

Trevor


Re: Missing segments

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian S Deans" <ian@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re:Missing segments


David,

Your dish size is more than adequate. For normal TV use the recommended
size
for Hotbird for most of Scotland is 70cm and that should not be any
different for data. What concerns me more about your system is the fact
the
strong winds are obviously seriously affecting your dish. If this was put
up
professionally David get them back out. In this modern day and age dishes
attached to walls buildings etc. should not have so much movement that
serious signal loss occurs.

Regards
Ian.

I do agree. My dish (80cms ex SKY analogue) is on top of a 'non rigid' 6'
pole with no guys, fixed directly into the ground, and moves quite a bit in
the wind with no loss of data. This makes me think that if it is movement
it must be excessive. Perhaps a poor cable connection ?
Is it within reach of reasonable ladders or a pole to see if it is 'wobbly'
before calling the fitters back.
The card is still a possibility in that it could be behaving incorrectly to
small drops in signal caused by wind.
Next windy day why not stop taking MSG and watch Sailing channel keeping an
eye on signal levels and image quality.
Just one other thing as a long shot. I once tried whilst MSG data was
coming in, looking at the signal level on SetUP4PC....disaster. You must
not do anything with that program during MSG reception or data can be
lost.... not even checking signal level.

Regards
Douglas.


Re: Missing segments

Peter Benney <tugboat@...>
 

David,

Having once again read the following :-

http://www.tellique.de/tq_tellicast/filebroadcast_p2.html

Do you think there could be errors in the dynamic key generation on the Tellicast server. I am not refering to the encryption which is not yet in place.

If the generation of the keys which enable each Tellique Client User/Password to receive specific data channels and files become corrupted this would explain why these problems are user and time related.

Peter


Re: Missing segments

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

David,

You say it has been working fine until recently so the dish size is ok, a bigger dish will offer more wind resistance. I would be inclined to change the card first of all, then look for cable problems, water ingress etc, have you used self amalgamating tape around the connectors, then is the LNB ok ? "Suspect a simple fault !" The DVB card would still be my first bet given its history of problems.

Cheers, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: David Taylor
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:33 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re:Missing segments


--- In MSG-1@..., "Guy Martin" <agm@t...> wrote:
> Davids,
>
>Thanks, Guy. Yes, I already have that in hand. I hope to try a
different card, in a different PC, with a different version of the
OS!

I am wondering if a bigger dish might be a good idea, or if it would
be even more likely to become mis-aligned and therefore produce even
more missing segments!

Cheers,
David


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