Date   
MSG Trial Update.

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

The Eumetsat MSG-1 commissioning page on their web site has been updated
today again.
One point of interest I noted in the schedule is pasted below. This is
excellent news. The following courtesy of Eumetsat.

Regards
Douglas.


29 October --------24hr HRV lossless WaveLet compression test - as the test
has proven successful, lossless WaveLet compression will continue for the
foreseeable future.

Re: Missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "davidstrickland2003" <David@s...>
wrote:
David,
I have been away for a few days. Today I powered up my 2 PC MSG
system when I arrived home early this afternoon. The 1400 missing
segments are, I believe understandable as I must have just caught
the
middle of that transmission. So from ch1-11 I lost segs. 1234 and
from ch.12 1-11. At 1515 I lost seg 8 from ch 1,3,4,5,9; at 1545 I
lost seg 6 from ch 1,3,4,5,9 and at 1815 I lost seg 7 from ch
1,3,4,5,9. All other images inbetween these are 100% ok. Note that
the losses effect the same channels!! I am sure my hardware does
not
know about channels and time and although it is a little rainy it
would be extremely improbable that it would cause this effect. As
the
machines have just been restarted any previous state should have
been
lost. The patterns above shout software, not hardware but it is
probably within the TEllique software so would be hard for me to
trouble shoot - no code!! Question - any ideas how I could go
about
troubleshooting. If I had two front end machines I could start
them
at different times and compare the raw files collected but I do
not.
Any ideas?

Regards David S.
David,

I believe the fact that the same channels are affected is because
the files are transmitted in groups. (I am guessing this from the
entries in the Tellique log file). I also see that if I get a loss,
frequently it is not a single segment, but a set of segments from
different channels. So there is a single point of failure for
multiple segments (could someone from Eumetsat please confirm this?).

I hope soon to have a dual-receiver system (for a short while at
least) so that I can see if such failures do occur in common. Other
than that, I am really stuck to explain this.

My kit is still playing up in spite of repeated reboots etc. If it
was like this on day one, it would have been sent straight back to
the supplier!

Cheers,
David

Re: missing segments / PC resets

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

You are lucky, then Peter. Since about 0215 this morning I am
missing about one segment in ten! The reboot had no effect. It
is
a little windier today, so perhaps it is the wind direction that
is
critical? Having said that, there are no "Uncorrected Blocks" on
the Setup4PC display which has been running continuously since
this
morning.
Well, my problem just got worse and worse. Yes, there was some
wind, but the errors kept on happening. I tried a full mains-off
reboot, and the errors were still there, uncorrected blocks and
all. I completely lost touch with any data about an hour ago, with
normal quality and SNR values, but the the BER stuck (it seemed) at
the very high value of 1.2E-2!

So I tried a "soft" reboot, and now all is sweetness and light!
It's still windy. I put it down to a consumer-grade DVB card
perhaps loosing lock, but I think that's unfair without better
evidence.

Cheers,
David

Re: Missing segments

davidstrickland2003 <David@...>
 

David,
I have been away for a few days. Today I powered up my 2 PC MSG
system when I arrived home early this afternoon. The 1400 missing
segments are, I believe understandable as I must have just caught the
middle of that transmission. So from ch1-11 I lost segs. 1234 and
from ch.12 1-11. At 1515 I lost seg 8 from ch 1,3,4,5,9; at 1545 I
lost seg 6 from ch 1,3,4,5,9 and at 1815 I lost seg 7 from ch
1,3,4,5,9. All other images inbetween these are 100% ok. Note that
the losses effect the same channels!! I am sure my hardware does not
know about channels and time and although it is a little rainy it
would be extremely improbable that it would cause this effect. As the
machines have just been restarted any previous state should have been
lost. The patterns above shout software, not hardware but it is
probably within the TEllique software so would be hard for me to
trouble shoot - no code!! Question - any ideas how I could go about
troubleshooting. If I had two front end machines I could start them
at different times and compare the raw files collected but I do not.
Any ideas?

Regards David S.

Re: Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in High Resolution

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maik Dobbermann" <maik.dobbermann@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:41 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in
High Resolution


Hi David,

i am trying to create various animation of germany for example in
Geosatsignal (ver. 4.0.4.385) with HRV Images as PNGs (those new ones,
Waveletcompressed).

I use remapping, with zooming and so on and a resolution of the target
picture about 768x576.

When i try to animate, or even sometimes just try to make one picture,
Geosatsignal just quits, with no warning message or else.
In this computer i have about 1.2 GB RAM. So i dont know if thats an
issue?

I would really like to go up with the resolution, but cannot.

Could this be a problem with Geosatsignal? Or do i need more RAM?

Thanks for your answer in advance.

Regards,
Maik Dobbermann
Hello Maik

I run a close-up orthographically corrected colour animation of the UK most
days using the HRV 12n image.
I have a 2000 XP with 1 Gb of RAM. The animation is made up whilst MSG DM
is running (Receive is on another computer). At the moment I am doing it
with PNG saved images without any problem.
I am using the latest beta version of GSS4 ie V4.0.4.408 although I have
used earlier versions without any problems.
In my case the basic settings I use are :-

False colour :- normal
Brightness :- H.E.
Crispen :- more
Remapping :- enabled
Remapped Image Size :- 1280 x 960
meridian :- -4 (minus 4)
parallel :- 54
span :- 10

Hope that helps.

Regards
Douglas.

Re: Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in High Resolution

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

i am trying to create various animation of germany for example in
Geosatsignal (ver. 4.0.4.385) with HRV Images as PNGs (those new
ones,
Waveletcompressed).

I use remapping, with zooming and so on and a resolution of the
target
picture about 768x576.

When i try to animate, or even sometimes just try to make one
picture,
Geosatsignal just quits, with no warning message or else.
In this computer i have about 1.2 GB RAM. So i dont know if thats
an issue?

I would really like to go up with the resolution, but cannot.

Could this be a problem with Geosatsignal? Or do i need more RAM?
[]
Maik,

I suspect this would be more appropriate in the SatSignal group, but
to try and answer:

- I've never used HRV saved as PNG files for animations within
GeoSatSignal

- I believe people do use the HRV channel, though.

- If I was doing this, I would use the 12n image, i.e. the smaller
northern part of the full HRV image.

- making a false-colour image will use three times the memory of the
monochrome image, so reducing the size of the source image is
critically important.

- I only have 1GB of memory, but have made full resolution HRV false-
colour images before.

- running MSG Data Manager on the same machine will also use up
quite a large amount of memory. Can you perhaps try on another PC?

There is probably a more recent beta than 4.0.4.385 available, but I
don't know if that will help your problem.

Cheers,
David

Re: missing segments / PC resets

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Guy Martin" <agm@t...> wrote:
Win2K workstations get 'grumpy' if left on for long periods and I
and many others I know re-boot servers weekly.

From: Roger Mawhinney
[]
Memory fragmentation is a problem for machines which are left on
for a long period of time.

Roger, Guy, I would agree with you both that in some circumstances
frequent reboots may be required. However:

- this PC has run for weeks without requiring a reboot

- within 4 days of a reboot, this missing segments problem developed

- rebooting the PC this morning has resulted in no change with the
missing segments problem.

so I can't see it being an inherent software problem. Having said
that, I notice that there is a Web server running on that PC, and I
thought I had stopped this service previously. So I will now
permanently stop that service and reboot again.....

Cheers,
David

Re: missing segments / PC resets

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

David,

I can report since 2/11 1500z only one missing segment yesterdays
0300 Ch7 Seg 6. After two weeks of bad segment loss the system has
settled down. The last reboot of the RX PC was on 2/11at 0945z but
not a full mains off.
You are lucky, then Peter. Since about 0215 this morning I am
missing about one segment in ten! The reboot had no effect. It is
a little windier today, so perhaps it is the wind direction that is
critical? Having said that, there are no "Uncorrected Blocks" on
the Setup4PC display which has been running continuously since this
morning.

Does your Tellique log report the same Announcement Channel "Lost
Messages" or " file ended/interrupted" messages that I had.

Peter
No "Lost Messages" but lots of "ended/interrupted" ones......
Perhaps the V2.3.1 client simply doesn't report "Lost" messages any
more! I have no idea what causes this - I wish I did.

Cheers,
David

Re: missing segments / PC resets

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

Win2K workstations get 'grumpy' if left on for long periods and I and many others I know re-boot servers weekly. I have one server running a web based application that needs re-booting nightly. It seems to be a memory leak that causes that particular problem. Whether its the app not releasing memory or the kernel not realising it has been released I don't know. From postings to this group it looks as though something similar is happening here. I have never experienced this problem perhaps because the longest I have left the machines on is about 10 hours. I use Win2K but the code in XP is pretty much the same.

Cheers, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: Roger Mawhinney
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 1:16 PM
Subject: RE: [MSG-1] Re: missing segments / PC resets


Memory fragmentation is a problem for machines which are left on for a long
period of time. I can remember having to reboot a server every week, simply
to keep performance acceptable. I suspect that it can't be avoided any
more than disk fragmentation but will be dependent on how programs allocate
and release memory. It will of course be cleared on re-boot.
Regards,
Roger

|
|-----Original Message-----
|From: Douglas Deans [mailto:douglas@...]
|Sent: 04 November 2003 09:33
|To: MSG-1
|
|
|----- Original Message -----
|From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
|To: <MSG-1@...>
|Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:12 AM
|Subject: [MSG-1] Re: missing segments / PC resets
|
|
|> Just to let you know that I seem to have a lot of unexplained
|> missing segments overnight after a number of really good days, so
|> I've also taken the full mains-off reset route this morning.....
|>
|> I wonder if it happens when Tellique's memory allocation gets too
|> high?
|>
|> Cheers,
|> David
|
|From memory (excuse the pun) it seems to happen to those who keep their
|computers on permanently or at least for long periods at a time.
|As you know I switch off at night and back on early morning
|and have never
|experienced this.
|Would that not further support your suggestion.
|
|Regards
|Douglas.
|
|
|
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http://www.gordano.com - Messaging for educators.

Re: missing segments / PC resets

Roger Mawhinney <roger@...>
 

Memory fragmentation is a problem for machines which are left on for a long
period of time. I can remember having to reboot a server every week, simply
to keep performance acceptable. I suspect that it can't be avoided any
more than disk fragmentation but will be dependent on how programs allocate
and release memory. It will of course be cleared on re-boot.
Regards,
Roger

|

|-----Original Message-----
|From: Douglas Deans [mailto:douglas@...]
|Sent: 04 November 2003 09:33
|To: MSG-1
|
|
|----- Original Message -----
|From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
|To: <MSG-1@...>
|Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:12 AM
|Subject: [MSG-1] Re: missing segments / PC resets
|
|
|> Just to let you know that I seem to have a lot of unexplained
|> missing segments overnight after a number of really good days, so
|> I've also taken the full mains-off reset route this morning.....
|>
|> I wonder if it happens when Tellique's memory allocation gets too
|> high?
|>
|> Cheers,
|> David
|
|From memory (excuse the pun) it seems to happen to those who keep their
|computers on permanently or at least for long periods at a time.
|As you know I switch off at night and back on early morning
|and have never
|experienced this.
|Would that not further support your suggestion.
|
|Regards
|Douglas.
|
|
|
|------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
|---------------------~-->
|Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark
|Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the
|US & Canada.
|http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
|http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/RLYolB/TM
|---------------------------------------------------------------
|------~->
|
|To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
|MSG-1-unsubscribe@...
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|
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|

Re: missing segments / PC resets

Peter Benney <tugboat@...>
 

Just to let you know that I seem to have a lot of unexplained
missing segments overnight after a number of really good days, so
I've also taken the full mains-off reset route this morning.....

I wonder if it happens when Tellique's memory allocation gets too
high?
David,

I can report since 2/11 1500z only one missing segment yesterdays 0300 Ch7 Seg 6. After two weeks of bad segment loss the system has settled down. The last reboot of the RX PC was on 2/11at 0945z but not a full mains off.

Does your Tellique log report the same Announcement Channel "Lost Messages" or " file ended/interrupted" messages that I had.

Peter

Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in High Resolution

Maik Dobbermann <maik.dobbermann@...>
 

Hi David,

i am trying to create various animation of germany for example in
Geosatsignal (ver. 4.0.4.385) with HRV Images as PNGs (those new ones,
Waveletcompressed).

I use remapping, with zooming and so on and a resolution of the target
picture about 768x576.

When i try to animate, or even sometimes just try to make one picture,
Geosatsignal just quits, with no warning message or else.
In this computer i have about 1.2 GB RAM. So i dont know if thats an issue?

I would really like to go up with the resolution, but cannot.

Could this be a problem with Geosatsignal? Or do i need more RAM?

Thanks for your answer in advance.

Regards,
Maik Dobbermann

Re: missing segments / PC resets

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:12 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: missing segments / PC resets


Just to let you know that I seem to have a lot of unexplained
missing segments overnight after a number of really good days, so
I've also taken the full mains-off reset route this morning.....

I wonder if it happens when Tellique's memory allocation gets too
high?

Cheers,
David
From memory (excuse the pun) it seems to happen to those who keep their
computers on permanently or at least for long periods at a time.
As you know I switch off at night and back on early morning and have never
experienced this.
Would that not further support your suggestion.

Regards
Douglas.

Re: missing segments / PC resets

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Just to let you know that I seem to have a lot of unexplained
missing segments overnight after a number of really good days, so
I've also taken the full mains-off reset route this morning.....

I wonder if it happens when Tellique's memory allocation gets too
high?

Cheers,
David

Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

But we don't know if these lossless wavelet compressed HRV's are
here to stay. (I really hope so !)

Arne, Eumetsat are looking for any reports of problems with the new
format, so if they don't get any such reports I think the likelihood
of keeping the format increases. If anyone has problems with the
new HRV format please do speak now!!

So I should do a new comparison on lossy compressed HRV's from IMPF
(29 Oct) saved in jpg86 and png.
It would be great to get a good recommendation for the JPEG save
quality I set as default. Of course, the user can alter this to get
either smaller files or a better quality, and it is a subjective
measurement....

Currently I am determining new min/max values on MSG-1 and GOES
images using the 10 bit Rob Alblas XRIT2PIC decoder, will let all
know my results later this week.
First observation: The IMPF system does use the 0..1023 range much
better compared to the IIPS.
The min values should be unchanged, as all MSG-1 channels are
processed so that zero radiance is count 51. That was true of the
IQGSE software and remains true with the IMPF software.

You can set a channel temporarily to min:0, max:1023, gamma: 100,
thermal cal:no to see exactly what range is transmitted. The MSG-1
LRIT channels are already processed with those settings, by the
way.

Given the resulting image histogram then says 13..200 (say), the
corresponding values to set for main and max would be four times
that, 52..800, say. There is no one "correct" setting for gamma.
The value of 140 (gamma = 1.4) is designed so that single count
sensor changes around black level appear as single count image pixel
changes, thus preserving as much of the dynamic range as possible in
the dark parts of the image.

Also beware that when measuring the histogram, the off-earth values
are set to zero rather than the minimum sensor count (this
translates to a value of 1 in the JPEG saved LRIT images I just
checked), so be sure to ignore any histogram values below 13 in
unprocessed images.

Cheers,
David

Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

a_van_belle
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
That's a good point, Ian. I have increased the default JPEG save
level from 82 to 86, but I believe that Arne van Belle wants to
update some tests on the save level setting. It will be
interesting to see his new results.

Hello David and others,

Did some tests, comparing the 28 October IIPS lossy HRV to 30
October's IMPF losless HRV. This showed a drastic improvement on
details and gave smooth grey gradients. All "jpeg artefacts" are gone
when saving losless HRV to PNG.
But we don't know if these lossless wavelet compressed HRV's are here
to stay. (I really hope so !)

So I should do a new comparison on lossy compressed HRV's from IMPF
(29 Oct) saved in jpg86 and png.

Currently I am determining new min/max values on MSG-1 and GOES
images using the 10 bit Rob Alblas XRIT2PIC decoder, will let all
know my results later this week.
First observation: The IMPF system does use the 0..1023 range much
better compared to the IIPS.

Greetings,
Arne van Belle

Re: missing segments / PC resets

Dave Martin <Dave.Martin@...>
 

From: David J Taylor
To: SatSignal@...
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 6:05 PM
<snip>
As Douglas has said, sometimes a hard reboot clears up things.....
additionally, concerning the efficacy of "re-boots", I think there are times
when we suffer from the growing 'power' of PCs and kit therein, and we can
be mislead into thinking we have reset our PC when it hasn't =all= reset..

Modern PCs very rarely have what we used to refer to as the last resort of
the BRS (Big Red Switch) - instead there is sophisticated power management,
and the front-panel power switch is frequently only a signal button.

Even when "off" many modern PCs have wake-on-LAN and even wake-on-keyboard
activity - and as a result, many preserve power to the PCI bus even when
ostensibly shut-down; some also keep keyboards and even USB ports powered-up
as well. Co-incidentally, many plug-in cards have more on-board processing,
and these satellite cards (e.g. B2C2 engine) are a perfect example with
significant processing and on-board I2C communications.

Some plug-in boards don't always "hear" a reset signal (particularly if they
have hung) and the next reaction of attempting a 'hard reset' by
power-cycling the machine using the machine's power button may not in fact
be sufficient to actually power-cycle the PCI cards ! - in extremis, it
may be necessary to externally remove the mains supply and wait awhiles for
the smoothing capacitors to discharge .....

Dave M


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Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

Further to my previous mail, I have now tried saving channel 12 with a jpg
setting of 100 and that has appeared to get rid of any artefacts. However
the file size has increased from just over 8mb to over 22mb. I then saved
channel 12 on the next cycle as png and the file size was also approx. 22mb.
Correct me if I am wrong, but it would seem to me that there is no benefit
in using jpg 100, better with the lossless png.

Ian.

Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

Sorry about the "typo" in my previous mail. Should have been "exceeded my
best expectations"

Ian.

Re: Wavelet-compressed HRV data

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

Guy ( and David ) thanks for your reply.

The only reason I try to keep HRV image size reasonable is that I do use
GSS4 quite a lot when everything else is still running. Although my Athlon
1200 with 768mb ram has succeeded my best expectations, it is being
seriously pushed. I will try a jpg setting of 100 ( when MSG starts up again
!! ) although I suspect at that level the size of file will be close to png
anyway.

Thanks again

Regards
Ian.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Martin" <agm@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Wavelet-compressed HRV data


Hi Ian,

I'm saving them as jpg with a setting of 100. Saving does now take longer
but the images are now excellent. I'm using an Athlon 1200 with 512Gb and
the processor spends time at 100% so an upgrade is planned in the future as
it is my main working machine. I'm not concerned about image size as I only
archive interesting features and will copy them to CD.

Cheers, Guy