Date   
Re: Missing Segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "David Strickland" <David@s...> wrote:
David,
Further to my post yesterday at 0830 I missed seg. 5 from
chans. 6,8,9,10,11 and seg.15 from chan 12. The interesting thing
here is channel 9 as it was amoung the groups of channels
yesterday
as well! I would think that if the files sent were in groups of
channels then this is an unexpected result. Signal quality is a
steady 70-71% with SNR 10.8 a 88cm dish weather is good and dish
is
very rigid mounted. Even in a strong gale little signal variation
occurs. The dropped segments look to me like a software problem.
I am trying to get a better understanding of this. I made a plot of
the percent loss of segments versus channel number, expecting to
find that the channel where the files which were larger would have a
greater segment loss, and there was less likelhood of getting a
complete file. Similarly I had expected that LRIT data would be
more robust than HRIT data, but this also not seem to be the case
when the loss was at its worst. It suggested that some file
grouping was perhaps spreading the loss more equally across all
channels.

Guesswork, I'm afraid.

I don't expect any file grouping to be constant, by the way. I
(again) guess that there is a data stream and that all files of a
certain priority will be packaged for transmission in some sort
of "best fit to available packets" fashion. I don't know if the
IMPF software processes files in a strict channel order, or if there
are parallel processing tasks so the channel order for a particular
segment is random. I should study the log files, shouldn't I?

The Sky star card is in the computer in the garage!!
.. and so perhaps is subject to a larger temperature variation than
a "domestic" computer might expect to encounter?

Cheers,
David

Re: Missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Ian S Deans" <ian@i...> wrote:

I think your dish is on the edge of the satellite ?

Dave
That's a very fair point. Very slight movement in a badly aligned
dish will lose signal rapidly.

Dave, Ian. Many thanks to you both for your comments.

.. and I found that the maximum solar outage did not correspond
_precisely_ with the WXtrack predictions. It does all point to a
slight alignment error, but how to convince the professional
installers of this? How many months guarantee you would expect on
dish alignment in any case? I would love to get the "professional
installers" out again, but am worried that they check the dish, and
say "It looks OK to us, that will be £50, please!"

Cheers,
David

Re: Dish

Trevor David <tdavid@...>
 

Ian

Very many thanks for your reply. It will be turned into a pond now.

Trevor

----- Original Message -----
From: Ian S Deans
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Dish


Trevor,

This will be a prime focus dish with no arm, so the answer is no it cannot
be used. You could probably pick up an old Sky analogue 80cm dish for next
to nothing, although they were more in use in Scotland as most of England
used 60cm dishes in the analogue days.

Regards

Ian.



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Re: Missing segments

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

That's a very fair point. Very slight movement in a badly aligned dish will
lose signal rapidly. There is no better illustration of this than the
recent move by BBC to Astra 2D with its much tighter spot beam allowing the
BBC to go FTA. Thousands of Sky customers particularly at the extremes of
the beam lost the BBC channels and it is reckoned that most of the problems
were down to badly aligned dishes. Shoddy work by professionals.

Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: "Timestep" <Information@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re:Missing segments



From: Dave Cawley
Timestep Dartmouth England
e-mail Information@...
Web site http://www.Time-step.com
Tel. +44 (0)1803 833366
Fax. +44 (0)1803 839498

I think your dish is on the edge of the satellite ?

Dave

Re: Dish

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

Trevor,

This will be a prime focus dish with no arm, so the answer is no it cannot
be used. You could probably pick up an old Sky analogue 80cm dish for next
to nothing, although they were more in use in Scotland as most of England
used 60cm dishes in the analogue days.

Regards

Ian.

Wavelet compression

Trevor Davies <g0jix@...>
 

Hi

I guess the message from EUMETSAT User Service stating the continuation of HRV lossless Wavelet compression will be as well received as was the launch of the service.GREAT!!

73 de Trevor G0JIX
All mail scanned with Norton.

Re: Missing segments

Timestep <Information@...>
 

From: Dave Cawley
Timestep Dartmouth England
e-mail Information@...
Web site http://www.Time-step.com
Tel. +44 (0)1803 833366
Fax. +44 (0)1803 839498

I think your dish is on the edge of the satellite ?

Dave

Re: Missing Segments

David Strickland <David@...>
 

David,
Further to my post yesterday at 0830 I missed seg. 5 from
chans. 6,8,9,10,11 and seg.15 from chan 12. The interesting thing
here is channel 9 as it was amoung the groups of channels yesterday
as well! I would think that if the files sent were in groups of
channels then this is an unexpected result. Signal quality is a
steady 70-71% with SNR 10.8 a 88cm dish weather is good and dish is
very rigid mounted. Even in a strong gale little signal variation
occurs. The dropped segments look to me like a software problem. The
Sky star card is in the computer in the garage!! It has strong
cooling and certainly no overheat problems. CPU temperature is a nice
44C and system temp is 28C. It has three temperature controlled
cooling fans and as it is quite cool outside today nothing is working
very hard. I have not restarted since yesterday deliberately to watch
what happens.

Regards David S.

Dish

Trevor David <tdavid@...>
 

Hi

I have one of RIGs 1mtr dishes with the coffee can on the end, can this be used for the reception of MSG, and if so what other items are required? It seems a waste to get rid of it only to replace it with a smaller dish

regards

Trevor

Re: Missing segments

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian S Deans" <ian@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re:Missing segments


David,

Your dish size is more than adequate. For normal TV use the recommended
size
for Hotbird for most of Scotland is 70cm and that should not be any
different for data. What concerns me more about your system is the fact
the
strong winds are obviously seriously affecting your dish. If this was put
up
professionally David get them back out. In this modern day and age dishes
attached to walls buildings etc. should not have so much movement that
serious signal loss occurs.

Regards
Ian.

I do agree. My dish (80cms ex SKY analogue) is on top of a 'non rigid' 6'
pole with no guys, fixed directly into the ground, and moves quite a bit in
the wind with no loss of data. This makes me think that if it is movement
it must be excessive. Perhaps a poor cable connection ?
Is it within reach of reasonable ladders or a pole to see if it is 'wobbly'
before calling the fitters back.
The card is still a possibility in that it could be behaving incorrectly to
small drops in signal caused by wind.
Next windy day why not stop taking MSG and watch Sailing channel keeping an
eye on signal levels and image quality.
Just one other thing as a long shot. I once tried whilst MSG data was
coming in, looking at the signal level on SetUP4PC....disaster. You must
not do anything with that program during MSG reception or data can be
lost.... not even checking signal level.

Regards
Douglas.

Re: Missing segments

Peter Benney <tugboat@...>
 

David,

Having once again read the following :-

http://www.tellique.de/tq_tellicast/filebroadcast_p2.html

Do you think there could be errors in the dynamic key generation on the Tellicast server. I am not refering to the encryption which is not yet in place.

If the generation of the keys which enable each Tellique Client User/Password to receive specific data channels and files become corrupted this would explain why these problems are user and time related.

Peter

Re: Missing segments

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

David,

You say it has been working fine until recently so the dish size is ok, a bigger dish will offer more wind resistance. I would be inclined to change the card first of all, then look for cable problems, water ingress etc, have you used self amalgamating tape around the connectors, then is the LNB ok ? "Suspect a simple fault !" The DVB card would still be my first bet given its history of problems.

Cheers, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: David Taylor
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:33 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re:Missing segments


--- In MSG-1@..., "Guy Martin" <agm@t...> wrote:
> Davids,
>
>Thanks, Guy. Yes, I already have that in hand. I hope to try a
different card, in a different PC, with a different version of the
OS!

I am wondering if a bigger dish might be a good idea, or if it would
be even more likely to become mis-aligned and therefore produce even
more missing segments!

Cheers,
David


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Re: Missing segments

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

David,

Your dish size is more than adequate. For normal TV use the recommended size
for Hotbird for most of Scotland is 70cm and that should not be any
different for data. What concerns me more about your system is the fact the
strong winds are obviously seriously affecting your dish. If this was put up
professionally David get them back out. In this modern day and age dishes
attached to walls buildings etc. should not have so much movement that
serious signal loss occurs.

Regards
Ian.

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:46 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re:Missing segments


--- In MSG-1@..., John Parkins <kvp@b...> wrote:
Hello David,

How bigger dish are you using at the moment David?
88cm - as supplied by TimeStep. My location is Edinburgh. Signal
quality is normally 60^ - 70%, SNR 9.3 to 10.7dB.

Cheers,
David

Re: Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in High Resolution

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maik Dobbermann" <maik.dobbermann@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 8:54 AM
Subject: AW: [MSG-1] Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation
in High Resolution


Douglas,
thanks for your options. i use equal ones, but with coordinates of germany
of course ;)
Do you use non-scaled pngs? or are they scaled down by x - factor?

Not 100% sure what you mean Maik, but they are used exactly 'as saved' from
MSG DM.
For HRV, to save process time, I normally use the HRV 12n.
Typically (about midday) the file is about 6MB whereas my full 12 channel
file size is about 22Mb.

Regards
Douglas.

Re: Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in High Resolution

Maik Dobbermann <maik.dobbermann@...>
 

Douglas,
thanks for your options. i use equal ones, but with coordinates of germany
of course ;)

Do you use non-scaled pngs? or are they scaled down by x - factor?


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Douglas Deans [mailto:douglas@...]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. November 2003 18:11
An: MSG-1
Betreff: Re: [MSG-1] Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation
in High Resolution

----- Original Message -----
From: "Maik Dobbermann" <maik.dobbermann@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:41 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Problem with Geosatsignal when creating HRV Animation in
High Resolution


> Hi David,
>
> i am trying to create various animation of germany for example in
> Geosatsignal (ver. 4.0.4.385) with HRV Images as PNGs (those new ones,
> Waveletcompressed).
>
> I use remapping, with zooming and so on and a resolution of the target
> picture about 768x576.
>
> When i try to animate, or even sometimes just try to make one picture,
> Geosatsignal just quits, with no warning message or else.
> In this computer i have about 1.2 GB RAM. So i dont know if thats an
issue?
>
> I would really like to go up with the resolution, but cannot.
>
> Could this be a problem with Geosatsignal? Or do i need more RAM?
>
> Thanks for your answer in advance.
>
> Regards,
> Maik Dobbermann

Hello Maik

I run a close-up orthographically corrected colour animation of the UK
most
days using the HRV 12n image.
I have a 2000 XP with 1 Gb of RAM. The animation is made up whilst MSG DM
is running (Receive is on another computer). At the moment I am doing it
with PNG saved images without any problem.
I am using the latest beta version of GSS4 ie V4.0.4.408 although I have
used earlier versions without any problems.
In my case the basic settings I use are :-

False colour :- normal
Brightness :- H.E.
Crispen :- more
Remapping :- enabled
Remapped Image Size :- 1280 x 960
meridian :- -4 (minus 4)
parallel :- 54
span :- 10

Hope that helps.

Regards
Douglas.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., John Parkins <kvp@b...> wrote:
Hello David,

How bigger dish are you using at the moment David?
88cm - as supplied by TimeStep. My location is Edinburgh. Signal
quality is normally 60^ - 70%, SNR 9.3 to 10.7dB.

Cheers,
David

Re: Missing segments

John Parkins <kvp@...>
 

Hello David,

How bigger dish are you using at the moment David?


Wednesday, November 5, 2003, 8:33:32 AM, you wrote:



DT> I am wondering if a bigger dish might be a good idea, or if it would
DT> be even more likely to become mis-aligned and therefore produce even
DT> more missing segments!

DT> Cheers,
DT> David


--
Best regards,
John mailto:kvp@...

Re: Missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Guy Martin" <agm@t...> wrote:
Davids,

Just a thought, is it worth trying another DVB card, they are
fairly cheap, and some have already proved to be 'iffy' in terms of
overheating, it is running hot ?, and you have more or less proved
that its not the OS or wind.

Cheers, Guy
Thanks, Guy. Yes, I already have that in hand. I hope to try a
different card, in a different PC, with a different version of the
OS!

Today it is quite windy, and I am seeing short bursts of higher BER,
and then Uncorrected Blocks, which can be roughly correlated with
the noise of the wind outside. Even an occasional dip of signal
quality into the yellow. So under those circumstances missing
segments are understandable, if not desirable.

At other times, though, like a few other people, I seem to get a day
of missing segments with no apparent explanation.

I am wondering if a bigger dish might be a good idea, or if it would
be even more likely to become mis-aligned and therefore produce even
more missing segments!

Cheers,
David

Re: Missing segments

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

Davids,

Just a thought, is it worth trying another DVB card, they are fairly cheap, and some have already proved to be 'iffy' in terms of overheating, it is running hot ?, and you have more or less proved that its not the OS or wind.

Cheers, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: David Taylor
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 8:16 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re:Missing segments


--- In MSG-1@..., "davidstrickland2003" <David@s...>
wrote:
> So from ch1-11 I lost segs. 1234 and
> from ch.12 1-11. At 1515 I lost seg 8 from ch 1,3,4,5,9; at 1545 I
> lost seg 6 from ch 1,3,4,5,9 and at 1815 I lost seg 7 from ch
> 1,3,4,5,9. All other images inbetween these are 100% ok. Note that
>
My kit is still playing up in spite of repeated reboots etc. If it
was like this on day one, it would have been sent straight back to
the supplier!

Cheers,
David


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Re: MSG Trial Update.

a_van_belle
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Douglas Deans" <douglas@d...> wrote:
29 October --------24hr HRV lossless WaveLet compression test - as
the test
has proven successful, lossless WaveLet compression will continue
for the
foreseeable future.
Many thanks to Eumetsat for this drastic improvement and to David for
the flexibility that was build in MDM to handle these different
formats without having to update the program !

Does also show that Wavelett Transform compression does a remarkable
job and this success will most likely make it more popular in other
imaging systems/programs.

Greetings,
Arne van Belle