Date   

Re: without fees?

johnrigsec@...
 

In a message dated 15-01-04 10:29:26 GMT Standard Time,
david-taylor@... writes:

Welcome to the group!

At some point, these images will be available on the Internet, and
perhaps that will be "free" for you.
All,

My understanding is that there will be an MSG Internet Service provided by
EUMETSAT.
This will be a two tier system - one free access to restricted data sets and
a full/er system which will require registration with EUMETSAT and password
access.

Regards,
John Tellick.


Re: MSG Licenses in Germany

johnrigsec@...
 

In a message dated 15-01-04 12:17:52 GMT Standard Time,
Goetz.Romahn@... writes:

no activities from German authorities DWD ( Deutscher Wetterdienst )
yet. There are rumores they are going to ask for annual licence fees
as opposed to EUMETSAT News Bulletin Issue 10 chapter 6.
How about any fees in Uk and/or "overseas" ?
Romahn,

There are no license fees across Europe for amateur/educational use of MSG
[Meteosat-8] data.
However, I am informed that some countries will charge a handling fee for
dealing with the issuing of the licenses.

I have no details as to the countries who will charge a handling fee nor how
much it will be.

The UK will not charge nor, I believe, will the Dutch KNMI.

I would say that the DWD service via Hot Bird-6 is a subscription service and
not included in the MSG data.

Regards,
John Tellick.
RIG.


Re: MSG Licenses in "overseas" countries?

johnrigsec@...
 

In a message dated 15-01-04 08:54:16 GMT Standard Time, lucaberta@...
writes:

Alan,

encryption is going to happen in the next couple of months maximum,
that is why we should start to work towards getting our eTokens
rather sooner than later, hence my question.

Still no word from any dutch, german and swiss colleagues. Any info
on what is going on there?

Bye, Luca
Dear members in 'overseas countries',

It looks like I might have just found myself another job?
I will be speaking to EUMETSAT this afternoon so will try to find out what
the situation is.

I can tell you - thanks to Arne, that the Dutch Met. Office KNMI will be
issuing licenses (in Dutch) to all Dutch users registered with EUMETSAT soon, so
don't panic.
Arne has spoken to them recently and the wheels are turning.

My understanding is that all of Europe will be administered as the UK is.
That is, register with EUMETSAT first, declaring your user status - they will
inform your national Met. Office - who will issue you with a license
depending on your status - when you have signed and returned this back to your
national Met. Office - they will inform EUMETSAT and you will be able to purchase the
eToken and software.

Full MSG [Meteosat-8] encryption (currently) will begin in March.

I will keep you updated.

Regards,
John Tellick.
RIG.


Missing segments.

David Strickland <david@...>
 

Started front end computer 9/1/04. I have missing segments on most
HRIT channels, usually just segment 6 very occassionally 5 or 7
except for channel 12 which is usually 16,17 occassionally one or two
earlier or later. The missing segments only occur between about 0900
and 1300 sometimes a litle later sometimes a little earlier. There
are no missing segments at any other time. I am getting more and more
puzzled at what the cause could be. The front end computer is well
capable of the task (1.8Ghz Athalon and 512 memory)spends most of its
time well below 5%. The fact that it is mainly segment 6 that goes
missing must point to a non random event that has something to do
with the signal. Being in Cornwall with an 88cm dish means there is
good signal and there is only about 10 feet of cable between the
skystar card and the dish. If it was the computer not coping then why
would it be ok for the other 20 hours each day? If it was alignment
why only segment 6.

Puzzled!!

David Strickland


Re: MSG Licenses in "overseas" countries?

Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>
 

Hi All,
I live in France and so far have heard nothing from the National
Authority. I'm not really concerned until it means that I shall not have the
e-token when MSG switches over to encrypted data!

Best regards - Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Luca Bertagnolio" <lucaberta@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 12:19 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] MSG Licenses in "overseas" countries?


I always like the british term "overseas"... as if they are not the
ones living on an Island!!! ;-)

Anyway, back to the topic... I read that the UK Met Office has sent
out quite a few licenses for MSG-1 reception, a needed step in order
to get the eToken from EUMETSAT.

Did anybody else in other countries have seen any similar activity
from the local licensing authority? Haven't heard anything here in
Belgium for sure yet...

Bye, Luca






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Re: Hotbird reception at sea?

Robert Moore
 

Unless you are good at applying calculus in spherical geometry do not try to
build a system at home!
Robert


Quoting Peter Benney <tugboat@...>:


How do ships at sea pick up geostationary satellites, particularly
satellites like Hotbird needing alignment to within a degree?
David,

For HRPT/CHRPT and Meteosat/GOES

http://www.dartcom.co.uk/products/hrpt_chrpt/system_options/13m_active_stabilised/index.html

For satellite TV, one of a few for smaller vessels;-

http://www.simrad.com/PDF_Library/Simrad_sat_tv_spec.pdf

Many more systems for the larger cruise ships.

Peter







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------------------------------
Professor Robert Moore
Department of Sociology, Social Policy
and Social Work Studies
The University of Liverpool
Eleanor Rathbone Building
Bedford Street South
Liverpool
L69 7ZA

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456


Re: MSG Licenses in

Mark Broddin
 

Luca,

The man to be contacted in Belgium seems to be, according to Eumetsat, marc.christiaens@...

So far this gentleman didn't answer my mail yet. We (here in Belgium)are waiting hopefully.
At least I do hope that the K.M.I. heard of MSG-1 so far......

regards
Mark
----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van
: Luca Bertagnolio [mailto:lucaberta@...]
Verzonden
: woensdag
, januari
14, 2004 11:19 AM
Aan
: MSG-1@...
Onderwerp
: [MSG-1] MSG Licenses in "overseas" countries?

I always like the british term "overseas"... as if they are not the
ones living on an Island!!! ;-)

Anyway, back to the topic... I read that the UK Met Office has sent
out quite a few licenses for MSG-1 reception, a needed step in order
to get the eToken from EUMETSAT.

Did anybody else in other countries have seen any similar activity
from the local licensing authority? Haven't heard anything here in
Belgium for sure yet...

Bye, Luca






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Re: MSG Licenses in "overseas" countries?

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Luca Bertagnolio" <lucaberta@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:19 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] MSG Licenses in "overseas" countries?


I always like the british term "overseas"... as if they are not the
ones living on an Island!!! ;-)

Anyway, back to the topic... I read that the UK Met Office has sent
out quite a few licenses for MSG-1 reception, a needed step in order
to get the eToken from EUMETSAT.

Did anybody else in other countries have seen any similar activity
from the local licensing authority? Haven't heard anything here in
Belgium for sure yet...

Bye, Luca
Whilst Eumetsat and our Met Office here in the UK have to be congratulated
on their help and response in dealing with the licence issue, the icing on
the cake has been the help of John Tellick. Apart from his tireless
efforts in the background he has been the go-between dealing with Eumetsat
and the Met Office and keeping us fully informed. I suspect that is what
has made the real difference over here and we all owe him our hearty
thanks.
I do hope things will happen soon for you.

Regards
Douglas.


Re: Hotbird reception at sea?

nigel heasman <nigel_heasman@...>
 

What about the smaller vessels or amateur sailors?
Only receive when stable in port?
That's my experience, David. Even then it can be a bit
tricky with floating pontoons and strong winds/waves!
Nigel



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Re: Hotbird reception at sea?

Dave Martin <Dave.Martin@...>
 

David,

I think the answer to all your questions is "yes" .....

The first generation of satellite used widely for communications at sea were
the Inmarsat series which carried their analogue "Inmarsat-A" service -
those use tracking antennae - typically 1m dia dish in an enclosed radome.
Active tracking takes input from ship's gyro and position; and motive
elements were usually stepper motors - although as it is at 1500MHz the
beamwidth is more like that of Met-7 kit rather than Hotbird, so they are
somewhat more forgiving. Modern terminals have a commutator ring, but older
terminals were notorious in that when they reached end-of-arc you would have
a break in your phone/fax/data call whilst the terminal rewound. Modern
higher-speed digital Inmarsat fundamentally the same, but require better
pointing.

Inmarsat also had alternative strategies to exploit the bottom end of the
market - Inmarsat-M is a lower bandwidth / higher power system which gives
typically 2400 baud, but requires smaller (app. 30cm) antenna (still
steered, but sometimes dish and sometimes flat panel) and further reduced
pointing accuracy. Inmarsat also introduced a telex-only (i.e. "text only"
service) Inmarsat-C which uses relatively high transponder power at very low
bit rates & bandwidth, and uses an omni-directional antenna.

There is a growth now in deployment of VSAT (very small aperture terminals)
at sea - this started with such as our cruise vessels (where we even provide
Internet Cafes) and others requiring high data rates such as survey
vessels - again these are all stabilised and steered, terminals costing from
20kUSD+++ An even more critical requirement is onboard TV - where
systems can cost hundreds of K USD; although they are still subject to the
laws of propagation and I can remember a serious discussion - even to the
extent of whether we would need to re-route a vessel - so the pax could
enjoy a football final !

and, at the other end - yes, you can walk along a marina pontoon and see Sky
dishes mounted with a sandbag or old motor tyre on the quayside! (even in
harbour, most yachts move and range too much to keep a TV sat dish in
alignment)

Dave M

----- Original Message -----
From: David Taylor
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:26 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Hotbird reception at sea?

How do ships at sea pick up geostationary satellites, particularly
satellites like Hotbird needing alignment to within a degree? Do
the ships have very expensive stabilised or tracking antennas? What
about the smaller vessels or amateur sailors? Only receive when
stable in port?

Cheers,
David

************************************************************************
This email has been scanned by the Manxnet Mail Plus anti-virus system.
http://www.manx.net/solutions/mailplushome.asp
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Re: Hotbird reception at sea?

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

A standard shoulder mounted broadcast camera (parrot) such as a Sony BVP70 was can be mounted on a gyro stabilised platform which is attached to the cameraman around the waist and hands and he can run down stairs without the camera exhibiting any shake at all. I suspect that kind of device could easily cope with ship movement.

Cheers, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: David Taylor
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2004 11:26 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Hotbird reception at sea?


--- In MSG-1@..., "Luca Bertagnolio" <lucaberta@y...>
wrote:
> I always like the british term "overseas"... as if they are not
the ones living on an Island!!! ;-)
>

It always give me the idea of long sea journeys to far away lands!
But I digress. It triggered the question:

How do ships at sea pick up geostationary satellites, particularly
satellites like Hotbird needing alignment to within a degree? Do
the ships have very expensive stabilised or tracking antennas? What
about the smaller vessels or amateur sailors? Only receive when
stable in port?

Cheers,
David



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Re: Hotbird reception at sea?

Peter Benney <tugboat@...>
 

How do ships at sea pick up geostationary satellites, particularly
satellites like Hotbird needing alignment to within a degree?
David,

For HRPT/CHRPT and Meteosat/GOES

http://www.dartcom.co.uk/products/hrpt_chrpt/system_options/13m_active_stabilised/index.html

For satellite TV, one of a few for smaller vessels;-

http://www.simrad.com/PDF_Library/Simrad_sat_tv_spec.pdf

Many more systems for the larger cruise ships.

Peter


R: MSG Licenses in "overseas" countries?

sergio mastripieri
 

Nothing yet here in Italy.. at least not for me in Milan :(

sergio



Da: Luca Bertagnolio [mailto:lucaberta@...]
Inviato: 14 January 2004 12:20
A: MSG-1@...
Oggetto: [MSG-1] MSG Licenses in "overseas" countries?

I always like the british term "overseas"... as if they are not the
ones living on an Island!!! ;-)

Anyway, back to the topic... I read that the UK Met Office has sent
out quite a few licenses for MSG-1 reception, a needed step in order
to get the eToken from EUMETSAT.

Did anybody else in other countries have seen any similar activity
from the local licensing authority? Haven't heard anything here in
Belgium for sure yet...

Bye, Luca


Hotbird reception at sea?

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Luca Bertagnolio" <lucaberta@y...>
wrote:
I always like the british term "overseas"... as if they are not
the ones living on an Island!!! ;-)
It always give me the idea of long sea journeys to far away lands!
But I digress. It triggered the question:

How do ships at sea pick up geostationary satellites, particularly
satellites like Hotbird needing alignment to within a degree? Do
the ships have very expensive stabilised or tracking antennas? What
about the smaller vessels or amateur sailors? Only receive when
stable in port?

Cheers,
David


MSG Licenses in "overseas" countries?

Luca Bertagnolio <lucaberta@...>
 

I always like the british term "overseas"... as if they are not the
ones living on an Island!!! ;-)

Anyway, back to the topic... I read that the UK Met Office has sent
out quite a few licenses for MSG-1 reception, a needed step in order
to get the eToken from EUMETSAT.

Did anybody else in other countries have seen any similar activity
from the local licensing authority? Haven't heard anything here in
Belgium for sure yet...

Bye, Luca


Re: delayed processing problem

Guy Martin <agm@...>
 

I regularly stop and start MDM, as it is running on an amd 1200 with only 512Mb ram and processing goes to 100% for up to 15 secs, so I can have a freed up machine for other work. When I re-start MDM it picks up exactly where it left off with no problem whatsoever.

Cheers, Guy

----- Original Message -----
From: David Taylor
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2004 6:27 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: delayed processing problem


--- In MSG-1@..., Lawrence <lawrence@a...> wrote:
> I have consistently noticed a problem after I use 'stop' to pause
routine processing of MSG-1 data files. I use 'stop' just before I
am about to take an h.r.p.t. pass, in order to allow the HD full
access for the realtime saved data. About 15 minutes later, I then
click 'start'. I have noticed at this point that quite often the
files check and sequence processing goes awry. Sometimes a save of
the previous partially constructed image is performed, even though
all the data is ready for processing. The program then continues to
process the remainder of the image but with the first piece
missing. This happens with several of the images in the current
sequence. All is usually back to normal after this hiccup.
>
> I am using the .297 version.
>
> Lawrence Harris

Can't explain that one Lawrence, unless the HRPT system is doing
something to the Receiver PC's timing, causing the sequence to go
awry. Noone else has reported anything similar. Files are supposed
to be processed in strict as received order, and you could check
this by looking at the Process.log file.

Another reason for a separate receiver PC where possible.

Cheers,
David


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Re: delayed processing problem

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., Lawrence <lawrence@a...> wrote:
I have consistently noticed a problem after I use 'stop' to pause
routine processing of MSG-1 data files. I use 'stop' just before I
am about to take an h.r.p.t. pass, in order to allow the HD full
access for the realtime saved data. About 15 minutes later, I then
click 'start'. I have noticed at this point that quite often the
files check and sequence processing goes awry. Sometimes a save of
the previous partially constructed image is performed, even though
all the data is ready for processing. The program then continues to
process the remainder of the image but with the first piece
missing. This happens with several of the images in the current
sequence. All is usually back to normal after this hiccup.

I am using the .297 version.

Lawrence Harris
Can't explain that one Lawrence, unless the HRPT system is doing
something to the Receiver PC's timing, causing the sequence to go
awry. Noone else has reported anything similar. Files are supposed
to be processed in strict as received order, and you could check
this by looking at the Process.log file.

Another reason for a separate receiver PC where possible.

Cheers,
David


delayed processing problem

Lawrence <lawrence@...>
 

I have consistently noticed a problem after I use 'stop' to pause
routine processing of MSG-1 data files. I use 'stop' just before I am
about to take an h.r.p.t. pass, in order to allow the HD full access for
the realtime saved data. About 15 minutes later, I then click 'start'.
I have noticed at this point that quite often the files check and
sequence processing goes awry. Sometimes a save of the previous
partially constructed image is performed, even though all the data is
ready for processing. The program then continues to process the
remainder of the image but with the first piece missing. This happens
with several of the images in the current sequence. All is usually back
to normal after this hiccup.

I am using the .297 version.

Lawrence Harris


Re: images

Robert Moore
 

Good news indeed

Robert


Quoting David Taylor <david-taylor@...>:

--- In MSG-1@..., Robert Moore <rsmoore@l...> wrote:
David's image of the UK - recommended in response to a request for
example images - was captured and processed in July. London,
Birmingham and the Manchester conurabation were visible in this
image. Is this a normal image, routinely achievable in summer
illumination, or was it in any sense a one-off?

Robert,

Do you want the good news or the good news?

- no, it is not a one-off, although the weather does need to be
clear!

- no, you shouldn't get as good as this next summer, you should get
BETTER! Why? Well, that image was made back in the bad old days
when the HRV data was transmitted with lossy JPEG compression. Now,
the data is not sent with lossless wavelet compression, so all of
those nasty JPEG artefacts will be gone!

You can look forward to even better images from MSG-1 next summer
than you had last summer!

Cheers,
David





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------------------------------
Professor Robert Moore
Department of Sociology, Social Policy
and Social Work Studies
The University of Liverpool
Eleanor Rathbone Building
Bedford Street South
Liverpool
L69 7ZA

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456


Re: Sun glint effects

Robert Moore
 

Alan - that explains it. I had not started receiving Ch 04. I only had 1 - 3, 9
and 12 - 12n coming in. Whoops.

Robert



Quoting Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>:

Robert,
Forgot to add that you have to have Ch 4 and ch 9 in the directory of
images as these are automatically loaded by GSS in Fires mode.and are
essential to this image.

Best regards - Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Moore" <rsmoore@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Sun glint effects


Alan, I don't see this at any level of zoom.

Robert



Quoting Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>:

Folks,
If you fire up GSS in Fires Job, load ch12 for today 040111 at 0915,
and
navigate to long 12.3E, lat 12.3S, you will find a very interesting
scene.
In the middle of a sun glint, there are a number of patches (some small
islands) showing the red of fires. I wonder what the phenomenon is here.
It
must be some form of specular reflection, to produce the apparent
temperatures necessary for declaration of a fire, but what is producing
the
reflection , particularly on land?
There are similar effects almost every day. Last Sunday two complete
small
islands off the coast showed up as bright red.

Best regards - Alan

Alan Sewards
email: alan.sewards@...
web site: http://asewards.free.fr





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