What about the smaller vessels or amateur sailors?
Only receive when stable in port?

That's my experience, David. Even then it can be a bit
tricky with floating pontoons and strong winds/waves!
Nigel



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David,

I think the answer to all your questions is "yes" .....

The first generation of satellite used widely for communications at sea were
the Inmarsat series which carried their analogue "Inmarsat-A" service -
those use tracking antennae - typically 1m dia dish in an enclosed radome.
Active tracking takes input from ship's gyro and position; and motive
elements were usually stepper motors - although as it is at 1500MHz the
beamwidth is more like that of Met-7 kit rather than Hotbird, so they are
somewhat more forgiving. Modern terminals have a commutator ring, but older
terminals were notorious in that when they reached end-of-arc you would have
a break in your phone/fax/data call whilst the terminal rewound. Modern
higher-speed digital Inmarsat fundamentally the same, but require better
pointing.

Inmarsat also had alternative strategies to exploit the bottom end of the
market - Inmarsat-M is a lower bandwidth / higher power system which gives
typically 2400 baud, but requires smaller (app. 30cm) antenna (still
steered, but sometimes dish and sometimes flat panel) and further reduced
pointing accuracy. Inmarsat also introduced a telex-only (i.e. "text only"
service) Inmarsat-C which uses relatively high transponder power at very low
bit rates & bandwidth, and uses an omni-directional antenna.

There is a growth now in deployment of VSAT (very small aperture terminals)
at sea - this started with such as our cruise vessels (where we even provide
Internet Cafes) and others requiring high data rates such as survey
vessels - again these are all stabilised and steered, terminals costing from
20kUSD+++ An even more critical requirement is onboard TV - where
systems can cost hundreds of K USD; although they are still subject to the
laws of propagation and I can remember a serious discussion - even to the
extent of whether we would need to re-route a vessel - so the pax could
enjoy a football final !

and, at the other end - yes, you can walk along a marina pontoon and see Sky
dishes mounted with a sandbag or old motor tyre on the quayside! (even in
harbour, most yachts move and range too much to keep a TV sat dish in
alignment)

Dave M

A standard shoulder mounted broadcast camera (parrot) such as a Sony BVP70 was can be mounted on a gyro stabilised platform which is attached to the cameraman around the waist and hands and he can run down stairs without the camera exhibiting any shake at all. I suspect that kind of device could easily cope with ship movement.

Cheers, Guy

How do ships at sea pick up geostationary satellites, particularly
satellites like Hotbird needing alignment to within a degree?

David,

For HRPT/CHRPT and Meteosat/GOES

http://www.dartcom.co.uk/products/hrpt_chrpt/system_options/13m_active_stabilised/index.html

For satellite TV, one of a few for smaller vessels;-

http://www.simrad.com/PDF_Library/Simrad_sat_tv_spec.pdf

Many more systems for the larger cruise ships.

Peter

Nothing yet here in Italy.. at least not for me in Milan :(

sergio



Da: Luca Bertagnolio [mailto:lucaberta@...]
Inviato: 14 January 2004 12:20
A: MSG-1@...
Oggetto: [MSG-1] MSG Licenses in "overseas" countries?

I always like the british term "overseas"... as if they are not the
ones living on an Island!!! ;-)

Anyway, back to the topic... I read that the UK Met Office has sent
out quite a few licenses for MSG-1 reception, a needed step in order
to get the eToken from EUMETSAT.

Did anybody else in other countries have seen any similar activity
from the local licensing authority? Haven't heard anything here in
Belgium for sure yet...

Bye, Luca

--- In MSG-1@..., "Luca Bertagnolio" <lucaberta@y...>
wrote:

I always like the british term "overseas"... as if they are not

the ones living on an Island!!! ;-)

It always give me the idea of long sea journeys to far away lands!
But I digress. It triggered the question:

How do ships at sea pick up geostationary satellites, particularly
satellites like Hotbird needing alignment to within a degree? Do
the ships have very expensive stabilised or tracking antennas? What
about the smaller vessels or amateur sailors? Only receive when
stable in port?

Cheers,
David

I always like the british term "overseas"... as if they are not the
ones living on an Island!!! ;-)

Anyway, back to the topic... I read that the UK Met Office has sent
out quite a few licenses for MSG-1 reception, a needed step in order
to get the eToken from EUMETSAT.

Did anybody else in other countries have seen any similar activity
from the local licensing authority? Haven't heard anything here in
Belgium for sure yet...

Bye, Luca

I regularly stop and start MDM, as it is running on an amd 1200 with only 512Mb ram and processing goes to 100% for up to 15 secs, so I can have a freed up machine for other work. When I re-start MDM it picks up exactly where it left off with no problem whatsoever.

Cheers, Guy

--- In MSG-1@..., Lawrence <lawrence@a...> wrote:

I have consistently noticed a problem after I use 'stop' to pause

routine processing of MSG-1 data files. I use 'stop' just before I
am about to take an h.r.p.t. pass, in order to allow the HD full
access for the realtime saved data. About 15 minutes later, I then
click 'start'. I have noticed at this point that quite often the
files check and sequence processing goes awry. Sometimes a save of
the previous partially constructed image is performed, even though
all the data is ready for processing. The program then continues to
process the remainder of the image but with the first piece
missing. This happens with several of the images in the current
sequence. All is usually back to normal after this hiccup.

I am using the .297 version.

Lawrence Harris

Can't explain that one Lawrence, unless the HRPT system is doing
something to the Receiver PC's timing, causing the sequence to go
awry. Noone else has reported anything similar. Files are supposed
to be processed in strict as received order, and you could check
this by looking at the Process.log file.

Another reason for a separate receiver PC where possible.

Cheers,
David

I have consistently noticed a problem after I use 'stop' to pause
routine processing of MSG-1 data files. I use 'stop' just before I am
about to take an h.r.p.t. pass, in order to allow the HD full access for
the realtime saved data. About 15 minutes later, I then click 'start'.
I have noticed at this point that quite often the files check and
sequence processing goes awry. Sometimes a save of the previous
partially constructed image is performed, even though all the data is
ready for processing. The program then continues to process the
remainder of the image but with the first piece missing. This happens
with several of the images in the current sequence. All is usually back
to normal after this hiccup.

I am using the .297 version.

Lawrence Harris

Good news indeed

Robert


Quoting David Taylor <david-taylor@...>:

--- In MSG-1@..., Robert Moore <rsmoore@l...> wrote:

David's image of the UK - recommended in response to a request for

example images - was captured and processed in July. London,
Birmingham and the Manchester conurabation were visible in this
image. Is this a normal image, routinely achievable in summer
illumination, or was it in any sense a one-off?

Robert,

Do you want the good news or the good news?

- no, it is not a one-off, although the weather does need to be
clear!

- no, you shouldn't get as good as this next summer, you should get
BETTER! Why? Well, that image was made back in the bad old days
when the HRV data was transmitted with lossy JPEG compression. Now,
the data is not sent with lossless wavelet compression, so all of
those nasty JPEG artefacts will be gone!

You can look forward to even better images from MSG-1 next summer
than you had last summer!

Cheers,
David





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------------------------------
Professor Robert Moore
Department of Sociology, Social Policy
and Social Work Studies
The University of Liverpool
Eleanor Rathbone Building
Bedford Street South
Liverpool
L69 7ZA

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456

Alan - that explains it. I had not started receiving Ch 04. I only had 1 - 3, 9
and 12 - 12n coming in. Whoops.

Robert



Quoting Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>:

Robert,
Forgot to add that you have to have Ch 4 and ch 9 in the directory of
images as these are automatically loaded by GSS in Fires mode.and are
essential to this image.

Best regards - Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Moore" <rsmoore@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Sun glint effects

Alan, I don't see this at any level of zoom.

Robert



Quoting Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>:

Folks,
If you fire up GSS in Fires Job, load ch12 for today 040111 at 0915,

and

navigate to long 12.3E, lat 12.3S, you will find a very interesting

scene.

In the middle of a sun glint, there are a number of patches (some small
islands) showing the red of fires. I wonder what the phenomenon is here.

It

must be some form of specular reflection, to produce the apparent
temperatures necessary for declaration of a fire, but what is producing

the

reflection , particularly on land?
There are similar effects almost every day. Last Sunday two complete

small

islands off the coast showed up as bright red.

Best regards - Alan

Alan Sewards
email: alan.sewards@...
web site: http://asewards.free.fr





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------------------------------
Robert Moore


tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456



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Yahoo! Groups Links

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------------------------------
Robert Moore


tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456

Robert,
Forgot to add that you have to have Ch 4 and ch 9 in the directory of
images as these are automatically loaded by GSS in Fires mode.and are
essential to this image.

Best regards - Alan

Robert,
Try the following parameters:
1024x768
12 meridian, -14 parallel, 20 span
Histogram equalize, crispen
1:1 zoom, remapping enable

Good luck!

Alan

--- In MSG-1@..., Robert Moore <rsmoore@l...> wrote:

David's image of the UK - recommended in response to a request for

example images - was captured and processed in July. London,
Birmingham and the Manchester conurabation were visible in this
image. Is this a normal image, routinely achievable in summer
illumination, or was it in any sense a one-off?

Robert,

Do you want the good news or the good news?

- no, it is not a one-off, although the weather does need to be
clear!

- no, you shouldn't get as good as this next summer, you should get
BETTER! Why? Well, that image was made back in the bad old days
when the HRV data was transmitted with lossy JPEG compression. Now,
the data is not sent with lossless wavelet compression, so all of
those nasty JPEG artefacts will be gone!

You can look forward to even better images from MSG-1 next summer
than you had last summer!

Cheers,
David

Alan, I don't see this at any level of zoom.

Robert



Quoting Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>:

Folks,
If you fire up GSS in Fires Job, load ch12 for today 040111 at 0915, and
navigate to long 12.3E, lat 12.3S, you will find a very interesting scene.
In the middle of a sun glint, there are a number of patches (some small
islands) showing the red of fires. I wonder what the phenomenon is here. It
must be some form of specular reflection, to produce the apparent
temperatures necessary for declaration of a fire, but what is producing the
reflection , particularly on land?
There are similar effects almost every day. Last Sunday two complete small
islands off the coast showed up as bright red.

Best regards - Alan

Alan Sewards
email: alan.sewards@...
web site: http://asewards.free.fr





Yahoo! Groups Links

To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MSG-1/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
MSG-1-unsubscribe@...

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

------------------------------
Robert Moore


tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456

Folks,
If you fire up GSS in Fires Job, load ch12 for today 040111 at 0915, and
navigate to long 12.3E, lat 12.3S, you will find a very interesting scene.
In the middle of a sun glint, there are a number of patches (some small
islands) showing the red of fires. I wonder what the phenomenon is here. It
must be some form of specular reflection, to produce the apparent
temperatures necessary for declaration of a fire, but what is producing the
reflection , particularly on land?
There are similar effects almost every day. Last Sunday two complete small
islands off the coast showed up as bright red.

Best regards - Alan

Alan Sewards
email: alan.sewards@...
web site: http://asewards.free.fr

All,

I have now received three notifications of non arrival of UK licenses when
users have been registered with EUMETSAT for some time.
If there are any more of you out there, please drop me an e-mail off group
with your details - name and address and I'll speak to Colin about it when he
gets back.

Regards,
John Tellick.

David's image of the UK - recommended in response to a request for example
images - was captured and processed in July. London, Birmingham and the
Manchester conurabation were visible in this image. Is this a normal image,
routinely achievable in summer illumination, or was it in any sense a one-off?
I ask this because I have a similar HPRT image from around the same time and
although the latter is better (Chester is visible), the MSG-1 image bears
comparison with it.
It will be great if we can normally expect to acquire images like this in the
summer - when the sky is clear that is!

Robert

------------------------------
Robert Moore

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456