Date   

Re: Missing Segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "David Strickland" <David@s...> wrote:
Spoke too soon!! 1015 Ch 12 lost seg 16,17
1045 ch12 lost seg 20
1100 ch 1,2,3,4,7,8,9,10,11 lost seg 6 ch12 seg 20
Note ch 5& 6 ok
1115 ch 1-11 seg 6 ch 12 seg 16,17

This is a pattern I have seen before. It looks more like a
desemination problem.
On one RX PC here (1GHz PIII DVB 2.6B card):

Cycle: 1100
msg-ch01, seg: 4

The other RX PC (2.8GHz P4 DVB 2.3 card) got the segment OK.

Dissemination seems to be OK.

What do your Tellique logs say for one of the missing segments?
Here's mine:

MSG:2003-11-12 11:07:18.636:Channel "TSL Announcement Channel": Lost
message 5355662
MSG:2003-11-12 11:07:18.636:Channel "TSL Announcement Channel": Lost
message 5355663
MSG:2003-11-12 11:07:18.636:Channel "TSL Announcement Channel": Lost
message 5355664
VRB:2003-11-12 11:07:18.697:Connecting to data channel `EUMETSAT
Data Channel 2', address 224.223.222.21:2511 (invited)
MSG:2003-11-12 11:07:19.287:Connect to data channel `EUMETSAT Data
Channel 2', address 224.223.222.21:2511 completed (invited)
[]
VRB:2003-11-12 11:07:44.521:Received file 3fb2145e00196052 on
channel `EUMETSAT Data Channel 2'
VRB:2003-11-12 11:07:44.942:Delivered file `received&#92;H-000-MSG1__-
MSG1________-IR_097___-000004___-200311121100-C_' id
3fb2145e00196052 from channel `EUMETSAT Data Channel 2'
VRB:2003-11-12 11:07:49.077:Received file 3fb2145e00196053 on
channel `EUMETSAT Data Channel 2'
MSG:2003-11-12 11:07:49.107:File transmission 3fb2145e00196054
ended/interrupted: 1 file missing/incomplete
MSG:2003-11-12 11:07:49.137:Missed parts of file `H-000-MSG1__-
MSG1________-VIS006___-000004___-200311121100-C_' id
3fb2145e0019604e from channel `EUMETSAT Data Channel 2'


Cheers,
David


Missing Segments

David Strickland <David@...>
 

Spoke too soon!! 1015 Ch 12 lost seg 16,17
1045 ch12 lost seg 20
1100 ch 1,2,3,4,7,8,9,10,11 lost seg 6 ch12 seg 20
Note ch 5& 6 ok
1115 ch 1-11 seg 6 ch 12 seg 16,17

This is a pattern I have seen before. It looks more like a
desemination problem.


Re: Up to 2230 no missed segmenst

Robert Moore
 

100 per cent reception since midnight too.

Robert



Quoting David Strickland <David@...>:

--- In MSG-1@..., "a_van_belle" <a.van.belle@h...> wrote:
Very quiet on the list, is everyone watching TV on HotBird now ?

Today I had no missing segments up to 2230

But I do see a lot of late segments in the report and somehow I
miss
image HRIT ch09 0830.

Greetings,
Arne van Belle
Arne,
Since my post last night till 1000 this morning no missing
segments- now was that what I did or did something change in the
transmission? Anyone else having 100% reception? Anyone else still
with problems?

Regards David S.



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------------------------------
Professor Robert Moore
Department of Sociology, Social Policy
and Social Work Studies
The University of Liverpool
Eleanor Rathbone Building
Bedford Street South
Liverpool
L69 7ZA

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456


Re: Up to 2230 no missed segmenst

David Strickland <David@...>
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "a_van_belle" <a.van.belle@h...> wrote:
Very quiet on the list, is everyone watching TV on HotBird now ?

Today I had no missing segments up to 2230

But I do see a lot of late segments in the report and somehow I
miss
image HRIT ch09 0830.

Greetings,
Arne van Belle
Arne,
Since my post last night till 1000 this morning no missing
segments- now was that what I did or did something change in the
transmission? Anyone else having 100% reception? Anyone else still
with problems?

Regards David S.


Re: Up to 2230 no missed segmenst

Robert Moore
 

This takes the biscuit! I used my card to watch Sailing Channel and other TV
stations - following Arne's instructions - to check that my PC was coping with
data from Hotbird. All fine - I flicked through about 50 channels. I decided to
stop this and restart MSG-1 reception, but I was expecting to continue with
dozens of missing segments until a solution was found to our problems.
Since re-launching Tellique software I have had perfect reception with no missed
segments.
Ho hum ....
Robert



Quoting a_van_belle <a.van.belle@...>:

Very quiet on the list, is everyone watching TV on HotBird now ?

Today I had no missing segments up to 2230

But I do see a lot of late segments in the report and somehow I miss
image HRIT ch09 0830.

Greetings,
Arne van Belle



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------------------------------
Professor Robert Moore
Department of Sociology, Social Policy
and Social Work Studies
The University of Liverpool
Eleanor Rathbone Building
Bedford Street South
Liverpool
L69 7ZA

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456


Missing Segments

David Strickland <David@...>
 

All I have just come back on air about 2 hours ago. I have changed
from a PCI WiFi card to an ethernet driven WiFi access point (WAP).
My reasoning was that if the amount of data from MSG had increased
then my WiFi card may have been taking resources that upto recently
were not sufficient to cause segment loss. It is pouring with rain as
well and I have not re-aligned my 88cm dish. I now use an ethernet
card to connect to a WAP which acts only as a bridge to another WAP
to my study network. Theory being that the WAP itself will now deal
with some of the work that the PCI WiFi card had to before. I have
had no missing segments since restart.I hope that is the way it now
stays. Will leave it running over night.


Up to 2230 no missed segmenst

a_van_belle
 

Very quiet on the list, is everyone watching TV on HotBird now ?

Today I had no missing segments up to 2230

But I do see a lot of late segments in the report and somehow I miss
image HRIT ch09 0830.

Greetings,
Arne van Belle


New file uploaded to MSG-1

MSG-1@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the MSG-1
group.

File : /Installing ProgDVB viewer for Skystar2.pdf
Uploaded by : a_van_belle <a.van.belle@...>
Description :

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MSG-1/files/Installing%20ProgDVB%20viewer%20for%20Skystar2.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

a_van_belle <a.van.belle@...>


Checking your MSG system on a second signal source

a_van_belle
 

A lot of members are having MSG reception trouble at the moment. Looks like
part of these problems are caused by Eumetsat, but others not.
Yesterday I installed a DVB viewer on my receive PC.
This way you can watch TV and judge from a second source if your antenna,
skystar and PC are working correctly.
Viewing DVB does ask for more performance, so it will detect if your PC's
performance is to low for MSG.
I fully tested this program on my W2K PC were I installed the official
Eumetsat CDROM.
ProgDVB and Tellique do not interfere, but cannot be used simultaneously of
course.
Only drawback: after exiting ProgDVB you have to reboot before starting
Tellique again, I guess some buffers or memory addresses might not be
released.
In the files area I uploaded a PDF manual on how to install and setup this
program.

Using this prog I can view Sailing Channel without any blips, freezes or
missing pixels.

You can download the program from:
http://www.progdvb.com/download/history/ProgDVB4.07FullInstall.exe
Please do not use other versions as I have not tested these.

Greetings,
Arne van Belle


Re: Missing segments

sergio mastripieri
 

Yes, I do and my intention is try to correlate this and other ovents found on receive log with missing segments message....

sergio

One missing segments since 0000UTC
msg-ch12, seg: 14

Tellique log shows file transmission ended/interrupted. Does anyone else see
this ?

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:05.980:
All files of filelist 3fb07cb50017fea0 received

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:13.715:
Disconnect from data channel `EUMETSAT Data Channel 2', address 224.223.222.21:
2511 completed (finished)

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:13.793:
File transmission 3fb07cc30017feb8 ended/interrupted: 1 file missing/incomplete

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:13.793:
Missed parts of file `H-000-MSG1__-MSG1________-HRV______-000014___-
200311110600-C_' id 3fb07cc30017feb7 from channel `EUMETSAT Data Channel 2'

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:13.934:
Connect to data channel `EUMETSAT Data Channel 2', address 224.223.222.21:2511
completed (invited)

Peter



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Re: Missing segments

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Peter Benney" <tugboat@g...> wrote:
One missing segments since 0000UTC
msg-ch12, seg: 14

Tellique log shows file transmission ended/interrupted. Does
anyone else see this ?

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:05.980:
All files of filelist 3fb07cb50017fea0 received

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:13.715:
Disconnect from data channel `EUMETSAT Data Channel 2', address
224.223.222.21:2511 completed (finished)

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:13.793:
File transmission 3fb07cc30017feb8 ended/interrupted: 1 file
missing/incomplete

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:13.793:
Missed parts of file `H-000-MSG1__-MSG1________-HRV______-
000014___-200311110600-C_' id 3fb07cc30017feb7 from channel
`EUMETSAT Data Channel 2'

Peter, the 0600 channel 12 segment 14 is not shown as missing here.
I guess it must have been a local effect at your end.

Cheers,
David


Re: Missing segments

Peter Benney <tugboat@...>
 

One missing segments since 0000UTC
msg-ch12, seg: 14

Tellique log shows file transmission ended/interrupted. Does anyone else see this ?

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:05.980:
All files of filelist 3fb07cb50017fea0 received

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:13.715:
Disconnect from data channel `EUMETSAT Data Channel 2', address 224.223.222.21:2511 completed (finished)

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:13.793:
File transmission 3fb07cc30017feb8 ended/interrupted: 1 file missing/incomplete

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:13.793:
Missed parts of file `H-000-MSG1__-MSG1________-HRV______-000014___-200311110600-C_' id 3fb07cc30017feb7 from channel `EUMETSAT Data Channel 2'

MSG:2003-11-11 06:08:13.934:
Connect to data channel `EUMETSAT Data Channel 2', address 224.223.222.21:2511 completed (invited)

Peter


Re: Lateral thinking

Roger Mawhinney <roger@...>
 

Don't worry, I have disabled all events that I can find. I was merely
pointing out that the defaults for Norton Live Update and other non-obvious
services can be unexpectedly frequent. I run nothing that I don't need or
want to run which is probably why my system is on a par with a 2 PC system.
What I am concerned about are those events that I haven't identified yet
that might a high load on the system at regular intervals - task manager
doesn't allow me to spot those. These could also affect a 2 PC system.
Roger

|

|-----Original Message-----
|From: David Taylor [mailto:david-taylor@...]
|Sent: 10 November 2003 22:39
|To: MSG-1@...
|
|--- In MSG-1@..., "Roger Mawhinney" <roger@m...> wrote:
|> David
|> What puzzles me is that my data loss occurs predominately when my
|system is not heavily loaded, i.e. when I'm at work during the
|normal day. I see some deterioration when I am actively using
|my PC, but not what might be expected. I'm really fishing
|around for other possible reasons - e.g.
|> Norton Live Update checks every 5 minutes by default
|
|What the heck is that? If it's anti-virus, with respect I
|would suggest that once a day was adequate, certainly if you
|are not using the PC and out at work!
|
|> Microsoft network updates are every 12 minutes
|
|What is that?
|
|> Outlooks checks for mail every 15 minutes, etc.
|
|Turn off Outlook while you are at work! Pull out the network
|connector, if you like!
|
|In any case, a separate receiver PC which does not run "user
|interactive tasks" is the Eumetsat recommendation.....
|
|By the way: the HRIT sequence order seems rather "in tracle"
|right now, so that's not your fault.
|
|Cheers,
|David
|
|
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Re: Lateral thinking

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Roger Mawhinney" <roger@m...> wrote:
David
What puzzles me is that my data loss occurs predominately when my
system is not heavily loaded, i.e. when I'm at work during the
normal day. I see some deterioration when I am actively using my
PC, but not what might be expected. I'm really fishing around for
other possible reasons - e.g.
Norton Live Update checks every 5 minutes by default
What the heck is that? If it's anti-virus, with respect I would
suggest that once a day was adequate, certainly if you are not using
the PC and out at work!

Microsoft network updates are every 12 minutes
What is that?

Outlooks checks for mail every 15 minutes, etc.
Turn off Outlook while you are at work! Pull out the network
connector, if you like!

In any case, a separate receiver PC which does not run "user
interactive tasks" is the Eumetsat recommendation.....

By the way: the HRIT sequence order seems rather "in tracle" right
now, so that's not your fault.

Cheers,
David


Re: Lateral thinking

Roger Mawhinney <roger@...>
 

David
What puzzles me is that my data loss occurs predominately when my system is
not heavily loaded, i.e. when I'm at work during the normal day. I see some
deterioration when I am actively using my PC, but not what might be
expected. I'm really fishing around for other possible reasons - e.g.
Norton Live Update checks every 5 minutes by default, Microsoft network
updates are every 12 minutes, Outlooks checks for mail every 15 minutes,
etc. There are many other background operations going on within Windows.
With a number of non-synchronous repetitive processes, there is bound to be
a time when they all coincide, perhaps overloading the system for a brief
period in time.

Does anyone know what the various timeouts on Windows background services
are and what can be shut down without damage to the basic system?
Roger

|

|-----Original Message-----
|From: David Taylor [mailto:david-taylor@...]
|Sent: 10 November 2003 21:52
|To: MSG-1@...
|
|> If it's not the PC, what else would cause serious segment loss?
|Is it Eumetsat? Do they give any statistics as to lost or
|delayed segments? Perhaps it is time for a bit more
|investigation away from the obvious over loaded PC.
|
|Roger,
|
|EUMETSAT do monitor for missing and delayed segments. You
|will sometimes see News messages when there is a known problem.
|
|I guess they will have a service level agreement with the
|satellite provider with penalty clauses if a certain
|reliability is not acheived. They have published expected
|availability levels, although these probably related to direct
|broadcast from MSG-1. I haven't seen any actual published
|statistics myself. I know that they value missing segment
|reports, though.
|
|As a victim of the unexplained missing segments (UMS), I would
|like to know the answer as well!
|
|Cheers,
|David
|
|
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Re: Lateral thinking

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

If it's not the PC, what else would cause serious segment loss?
Is it Eumetsat? Do they give any statistics as to lost or delayed
segments? Perhaps it is time for a bit more investigation away from
the obvious over loaded PC.

Roger,

EUMETSAT do monitor for missing and delayed segments. You will
sometimes see News messages when there is a known problem.

I guess they will have a service level agreement with the satellite
provider with penalty clauses if a certain reliability is not
acheived. They have published expected availability levels,
although these probably related to direct broadcast from MSG-1. I
haven't seen any actual published statistics myself. I know that
they value missing segment reports, though.

As a victim of the unexplained missing segments (UMS), I would like
to know the answer as well!

Cheers,
David


(No subject)

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Trevor David" <tdavid@d...> wrote:
Looking at the emails over the last few weeks it appears that
there are many more problems with the set up that is beeing
attempted. Has any one asked Eumestsat what they are recieving and
if the same problems are apparent with them? If we find out they are
in the same boat then we can take heart it is not us, but if all is
OK with them then....... we are in trouble.

Trevor

EUMETSAT do monitor for missing segments and they run (I understand)
both similar systems to ourselves and Unix-based monitoring
systems. They do see the occasional missing segments (the same that
we all see), but not the very high segment loss that a minority of
this group have reported (I believe). Sorry if this sounds like
guesswork but I am not based in Darmstadt!

Cheers,
David


Re: Missing segments

Robert Moore
 

Dear Dave M. and Dave C.
I only get the full Sun between April and mid-September. From now to late March
I will only see the Sun at the bottom of the garden. I'm on a north-facing
slope with high tress to the south, there is a shallow dip in the tree- line
around south which enables me to line up an HRPT dish until late October. The
_only_ line I have on Hotbird is from the place I have my dish. The erector
even tried the top of the chimney, to no avail. The bottom of the garden would
be unsuitable for various reasons including obstruction by my own trees. In my
current 'slot' I have about 5 degrees clearance over the trees.
The mounting pole is on brackets but it is also braced back against the wall
with a five-foot metal pole to give a rigid triangular structure.
The other 'side of the trees' is over the road, half a mile up a hill, through
the woods and the garden of another house. So some of us have no option but to
go high!
What we do for our hobby - anything but chop down trees (or move house)!
Let's wait and see if there is something other than the inadequacies of our
mountings before we (I) start climbing ladders. Plainly a lot of us are
currently having problems. Has anyone kept count of how many of us are still
having serious segment losses?

Robert



Quoting Dave Martin <Dave.Martin@...>:


and to reinforce Dave C's comments -

Our farmhouse has a shelter-belt of trees, and I was loathe to mount a dish
high on the house, so beyond the trees I have a 1.2m dish =at ground level=
on a substantial mount with lots of concrete ballast

As part of monitoring experiments, in the style of a mirror galvanometer, I
affixed a laser diode module to the rim of the dish projected onto a board
and pencil-tracked the deflection - a "good" gale only gave about 15
arc-seconds of movement of the dish

The second hand Channel Master dish I'm using for MSG has good
rib-reinforcement, but the 1m pressed steel dish I was using for Met-7, even
when mounted on a solid steam-pipe mounting, had noticeable flex and I
resorted to a number of wooden struts self-tappered at the rim and running
back/down to the ground to stabilise the rim. Before I stabilised it, I
could see the equivalent of a couple of degrees movement in a good storm !

Also, don't be afraid of a long lead-in with about an 85m (eighty five metre)
of CT100 lead into the house.

Dave M

----- Original Message -----
From: Timestep
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re:Missing segments


My thoughts, which should have been illustrated with a picture, are that
all
the installations I have seen of 88cm dishes, the brackets used are barely
capable of holding a 45cm. And why so high, if a garden gets the sun,
and
it would be a strange garden that couldn't, then the dish can be at ground
level, or certainly not waving high in the sky on flimsy brackets !

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------------------------------
Professor Robert Moore
Department of Sociology, Social Policy
and Social Work Studies
The University of Liverpool
Eleanor Rathbone Building
Bedford Street South
Liverpool
L69 7ZA

tel and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456


Re: Missing segments

Trevor Davies <g0jix@...>
 

Hi

The mystery deepens!

I bought my 88cm dish from Timestep in March 03.
It is mounted at ground level on a metal tube and anchored to the wooden garden fence to limit lateral movement.
It was installed early April using the Status facility in Set4PC to obtain maximum Signal quality,which can vary from 60% - 70%,SNR 9.7 - 10.8 and BER all 0000,s and no ill affect on imagery in any way.
It has not been altered since day one.
I have posted a photo at http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/MSG-1/lst titled 'Dishview.jpg' This is the view my dish has and I think it can be said it is not ideal,prior to this photo the trees carried a lot more foliage.
I have,judging from the mail,had results comparable with many and far better than others
I'm not sure this helps,but may save some from premature baldness.

73 de Trevor G0JIX
All mail scanned with Norton.


Lateral thinking

Roger Mawhinney <roger@...>
 

We seem to be missing something here.

I've been running a single PC system (Athlon 2200+, 1Gb memory, Raid 0
disks, XP Pro) and never really checked missing segments assuming that I
would naturally miss a lot more than the dedicated 2 PC systems. However,
over the past few days, I've realised that I'm probably on a par with most
users. I'm currently running MSGDataManager, Outlook, Norton Anti-virus,
Office Indexing, Defrag, Climate Prediction and probably a load of other
junk I don't even realise. When I use the PC it's for mostly really serious
Photoshop work as well as the background remote imaging, yet I do not feel I
am seriously disadvantaged in terms of quality and lost segments. Why not?

If it's not the PC, what else would cause serious segment loss? Is it
Eumetsat? Do they give any statistics as to lost or delayed segments?
Perhaps it is time for a bit more investigation away from the obvious over
loaded PC.

Roger Mawhinney
Lurgan, N. Ireland