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Re: Week 44 looks interesting

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Looking at the news for the week ahead - some more teasers for
David - I wonder if your thoughts about HRV have been listened to
David?
So do I, James, but I have no inside information about this. I had
suggested either reducing the compression level or bit shifting the
whole data to be 10-bit data left justified in the 12-bit field
offered by the compressed JPEG channel. At present, the data is
right-justified which leads to an accuracy loss, according to my
tests. If the lossless Wavelet data occupies a similar bandwidth to
the lossy JPEG data, then by changing there is no ill effect. As
you know, the HRIT channel is already about 1.7Mb/s over DVB versus
1.0Mb/s over a direct link, so there is more flexibility than before.

Incidentally, does anyone understand the gain changes with
reference to the channel numbers - I didn't even know there was a
channel 13.4 !!
The 13.4um data is transmitted as channel number 11 - if you hold
your mouse over the thumbnail image the pop-up hint shows the
spectral range for the channel.

Cheers,
David


Re: MSG registration

BARRY DAY <barryday@...>
 

THX David I've let them know so my liecence should be here soon
73;s
Barry

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 9:32 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: MSG registration


--- In MSG-1@..., "BARRY DAY" <barryday@t...> wrote:
HI DAVID, I got this msg from Eumetsat this morning can you help,
what is
the frequ. on HOT BIRD etc
Many thanks
Barry
Barryday@t...
EUMETSAT need to know how frequenctly you wish to receive images -
15 minutes, 30 minutes etc.

Cheers,
David



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Week 44 looks interesting

James Brown <james@...>
 

A test of HRV using wavelet lossless compression will take place from 13:00 29/10/2003 until 13:00 30/10/2003.
These will be disseminated in place of the HRIT JPEG compressed HRV products.

Image data will be switched from the IQGSE to the IMPF on the 28/10/2003 at 13:00. There may be a short interruption to the
SEVIRI dissemination. Some differences are expected in the headers, image quality and compression efficiecy.

Looking at the news for the week ahead - some more teasers for David - I wonder if your thoughts about HRV have been listened to David?

Incidentally, does anyone understand the gain changes with reference to the channel numbers - I didn't even know there was a channel 13.4 !!

Cheers,
James
--
James Brown


Re: MSG registration

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "BARRY DAY" <barryday@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 9:25 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: MSG registration


HI DAVID, I got this msg from Eumetsat this morning can you help, what is
the frequ. on HOT BIRD etc
Many thanks
Barry
Barryday@...

----- Original Message -----
From: "e-mail OPS" <OPS@...>
To: <barryday@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 2:42 PM
Subject: Re : MSG registration


Dear Barry,
We are pleased to inform you that your registration form has been received
and registered.
Unfortunatle, in the field where it asks for data frequency, you did not
tick off on any field.
Please let me know ASAP as to which frequency you would like to receive
images.

Thank you,
Pamela Sch�bel-Pattiselanno
EUMETSAT User Service Helpdesk
Tel : +49 6151 807377
Fax : +49 6151 807379
Email : ops@...
Hello Barry

The question Eumetsat is asking is not about radio frequency but how often
you want the data. On P4 of the registration document there is a question
as to whether you want the data 1/4 hourly, 1/2 hourly, 1 hourly etc. You
must not have filled that in.
HRIT is 1/4 hourly and LRIT is 1/2 hourly, although you do not need to take
it as often if you don't want to.

Hope that helps.
Regards
Douglas.


Re: MSG registration

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "BARRY DAY" <barryday@t...> wrote:
HI DAVID, I got this msg from Eumetsat this morning can you help,
what is
the frequ. on HOT BIRD etc
Many thanks
Barry
Barryday@t...
EUMETSAT need to know how frequenctly you wish to receive images -
15 minutes, 30 minutes etc.

Cheers,
David


Re: MSG registration

Corrado Brigante <corrado@...>
 

I suggest 15 minutes...it depends on how You signed the EUMETSAT form

Corrado

----- Original Message -----
From: David Taylor
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 10:32 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: MSG registration


--- In MSG-1@..., "BARRY DAY" <barryday@t...> wrote:
> HI DAVID, I got this msg from Eumetsat this morning can you help,
what is
> the frequ. on HOT BIRD etc
> Many thanks
> Barry
> Barryday@t...

EUMETSAT need to know how frequenctly you wish to receive images -
15 minutes, 30 minutes etc.

Cheers,
David


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Re: MSG registration

BARRY DAY <barryday@...>
 

HI DAVID, I got this msg from Eumetsat this morning can you help, what is
the frequ. on HOT BIRD etc
Many thanks
Barry
Barryday@...

----- Original Message -----
From: "e-mail OPS" <OPS@...>
To: <barryday@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 2:42 PM
Subject: Re : MSG registration


Dear Barry,
We are pleased to inform you that your registration form has been received
and registered.
Unfortunatle, in the field where it asks for data frequency, you did not
tick off on any field.
Please let me know ASAP as to which frequency you would like to receive
images.

Thank you,
Pamela Sch�bel-Pattiselanno
EUMETSAT User Service Helpdesk
Tel : +49 6151 807377
Fax : +49 6151 807379
Email : ops@...



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Re: GRB and BFR files

Tom Schoettle <tomsracing@...>
 

A program exists to decode GRIB2 data which is produced by the NWS.

Webpage: NDFD GRIB2 Decoder
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/mdl/NDFD_GRIB2Decoder/

I tested the Eumetsat GRIB file David sent me with the degrib.exe contained in the
program package and it reads the date and time from the grib. So it is a GRIB file.
The rest of the data I haven't tested up to now, but a quick look showed some
incompatibilities between the Data Tables used in Eumetsat and the NWS for GRIB2.

The NDFD GRIB2 Decoder is worth a look. It can generate images from all the
data contained in a GRIB2 file and generate a webpage linking all these images
together for easy viewing. That works for all the NWS Data covering the USA.
Recommended Download!!!

Description of the GRIB2 format is at:
FM 92-XII GRIB General Regularly-distributed Information in Binary Form
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tdl/iwt/grib2/doc.htm


Tom


Re: Transponder outage

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "a_van_belle" <a.van.belle@h...> wrote:
If it was a pure software matter, you should be able to get it
working again using a warm reboot.
I think that's what I'm doing, Arne. I don't need to press the
reset button, simply shut down Windows 2000, go through the BIOS
startup (which does NOT show the memory check), and login to Windows
2000 when it has booted. As the Setup4PC shows a locked signal, it
is as if the Tellique software cannot survive the loss of signal.
As you knwo, I only have a Pentium III 550MHz, so perhaps there is a
critical timeout, and my PC can't respond quickly enough.

By the way, other Eutelsat customers saw the same outages - one
actually contacted me to confirm the times....

Cheers,
David


Re: Transponder outage

a_van_belle
 

If it was a pure software matter, you should be able to get it
working again using a warm reboot.

Although these Skystar cards are cheap, they're quite sophisticated !
The receiver module does contain a front-end, IF+filter, synthesiser
and QPKS demodulator (SL1710 type).
Both Synthesiser and demodulator need to lock.
The synthesiser is quartz controlled but the demodulator is using
a "free-running" VCO that also acts as AFC.
My guess is that on some cards the demodulator may be a bit off
center. After a signal dropout the demod may not lock if signal is
weak or the frequency offset is just to much.

To get more understanding of the problem we need to know:

- Is only the older type Skystar 2 affected ? (rev 2.3)
The new version uses a different type/brand receiver module and runs
cooler.
Open the Statistics screen, the new version (2.6B) does not show a
BER reading below the SNR field.

- If you use the older card, did you take additional cooling
measures ?
A free running VCO could be offset by high temperatures.


I am planning to test the points below:

To check for good locking you can simulate a signal loss by
momentarily disconnecting the lead to the LNB. Be careful when
connecting the cable again, don't short-circuit and discharge statics
first.
If all is well, lock should be regained and Tellique will resume
within a minute.

To compensate an offset, you could try to set the transponder
frequency a few MHz's higher or lower.

Greetings,
Arne van Belle

--- In MSG-1@..., "David Taylor" <david-taylor@b...>
wrote:
I think that as lot's of don't have to re-boot, it's more likely
to be a computer problem than a card problem ?

Dave
Were mine the only computer affected, and if this computer had
shown
problems in the past, I would agree with you. As it is, I am
forced
to the conclusion that the card is not 100% compatible with all
PCs. It certainly wouldn't be the first card to suffer such
problems.

Perhaps I should be convinced that the USB solution doesn't have
these difficulties!

Cheers,
David


Re: CLAI and CTH file header contents...

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 9:25 AM
Subject: [MSG-1] CLAI and CTH file header contents...


Folks, by inspection, the file headers for this data are as shown
below. At present, I am converting the lower 6 bits of CTH into a
greyscale (0..252) and adding in the two most significant bits of
the data (fog and height quality) as the two lowest bits of the
image. I guess this produces something like what you are used to
seeing.

I wasn't as sure how to handle CLAI! Clearly there isn't really
anything which is "image" data as such, so I'm just doubling the
data to make 0..110 scale to an image with 0..220. Perhaps we need
to look at colur palettes to interpret the data further. What
amateurs get of MPEF once the trial is over is not known, so I don't
see it as a high priority right now. If you have time, experiment!
At the moment for amateur use, and anyway until we all become familiar with
the data, what you are doing with CTH and CLAI sounds spot on.
I rechecked a copy I had kept of my MSG registration form, and contrary to
what I incorrectly said in a mail yesterday, MPEF is not mentioned. So
there is no option to ask for it or not. MDD is mentioned as only for the
professionals (or words to that effect).
I do hope it will continue to be available and the lack of option makes me
hopeful, particularly as CTH was offered in wefax.

Further to our direct mails everything is still working fine with beta 251.
Again thanks for you very hard work so late at night !

Thanks
Douglas.


CLAI and CTH file header contents...

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Folks, by inspection, the file headers for this data are as shown
below. At present, I am converting the lower 6 bits of CTH into a
greyscale (0..252) and adding in the two most significant bits of
the data (fog and height quality) as the two lowest bits of the
image. I guess this produces something like what you are used to
seeing.

CTH
--------------------------------
_NAME:=Fog indicator
0:=No fog
1:=Fog in CTH segment

$DISCRETE:=1
_NAME:=Height quality indicator
0:=Height quality OK
1:=Height quality poor

$HALFTONE:=6
_NAME:=Cloud top height
_UNIT:=Metres
1:=00
63:=18600
--------------------------------


I wasn't as sure how to handle CLAI! Clearly there isn't really
anything which is "image" data as such, so I'm just doubling the
data to make 0..110 scale to an image with 0..220. Perhaps we need
to look at colur palettes to interpret the data further. What
amateurs get of MPEF once the trial is over is not known, so I don't
see it as a high priority right now. If you have time, experiment!

CLAI
--------------------------------
_NAME := Scene type
0:=No scene identified; missing input data
1:=Evergreen needleleaf forest
2:=Evergreen broadleaf forest
3:=Deciduous needleleaf forest
4:=Deciduous broadleaf forest
5:=Mixed deciduous forest
6:=Closed shrubland
7:=Open shrubland
8:=Woody savannah
9:=Savannah
10:=Grassland
11:=Permanent wetland
12:=Cropland
13:=Urban
14:=Crop/natural vegetation mosaic
15:=Permanent snow/ice
16:=Barren/desert
17:=Water bodies
18:=Tundra
97:=Snow/ice over land
98:=Snow/ice over water
99:=Clear sunlight
101:=Low-level cloud; Fog or Stratus
102:=Low-level cloud; Cumulus or Stratocumulus
103:=Low-level cloud; unknown type
104:=Mid-level cloud; Nimbostratus
105:=Mid-level cloud; Altocumulus or Altostratus
106:=Mid-level cloud; unknown type
107:=High-level cloud; Cumulonimbus
108:=High-level cloud; Cirrus
109:=High-level cloud; unknown type
110:=Unknown cloud type
--------------------------------


Re: Transponder outage

Dave Martin <Dave.Martin@...>
 

Alan - I'd have to beg to differ - whilst you can uplink a whole transponder's worth of content from one teleport; you can equally have many parties' traffic carried over the same transponder, uplinked from a variety of locations.

As I understand it, a basic transponder acts as a frequency-multiplexed "bent-pipe" - anything that comes in, within a particular frequency range (which can be hundreds of MHz) and has the correct polarisation, is re-broadcast back to Earth with a frequency shift applied.

Think of VSAT networks - some admittedly have more complex DAMA (demand assigned) channel allocation - but in the basic single channel per carrier you can have as thin as say 32k equivalent bandwidth, and you rent maybe tens of megs (which in itself is only a portion of a transponder) and then uplink from N terminals in the field.

So - I wouldn't rule out transponder problems - now that could be on-board (as in SSPA) but it could also be a command & control issue .....

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Sewards
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage


Ian,
Why? There will be one uplink transmitter for each transponder and all
the traffic for that transponder will go over it, so if the uplink goes
down, so does the lot. Sounds like finger trouble on the ground to me!

Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian S Deans" <ian@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage


> David,
>
> Unlikely I think to be the uplink with all other channels out. My guess is
> problem with the satellite.
>
> Regards
>
> Ian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
> To: <MSG-1@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:35 PM
> Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage
>
> > Thanks for that Ian, you are making good use of your facilities!
> > Presumably, the fault could still have been due to the uplink rather
> > than the satellite itself.
>

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Re: Transponder outage

Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>
 

Ian,
Why? There will be one uplink transmitter for each transponder and all
the traffic for that transponder will go over it, so if the uplink goes
down, so does the lot. Sounds like finger trouble on the ground to me!

Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian S Deans" <ian@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage


David,

Unlikely I think to be the uplink with all other channels out. My guess is
problem with the satellite.

Regards

Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:35 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage

Thanks for that Ian, you are making good use of your facilities!
Presumably, the fault could still have been due to the uplink rather
than the satellite itself.



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Re: Transponder outage

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

David,

Unlikely I think to be the uplink with all other channels out. My guess is
problem with the satellite.

Regards

Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:35 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage

Thanks for that Ian, you are making good use of your facilities!
Presumably, the fault could still have been due to the uplink rather
than the satellite itself.


MSG - IR

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

It's back with the start of the next scan... very strange

Douglas.


Re: Infra-red channels

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:39 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Infra-red channels


.. anyone seeing problems with the infra-red channels since around
1745 UTC?

David
Since starting with the new beta my channel 9 seems to have disappeared.
The 'hint' says it is there but no image. I don't take the other IR's.
Ian seems to be ok.
Time for the football !

Regards
Douglas.


Infra-red channels

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

.. anyone seeing problems with the infra-red channels since around
1745 UTC?

David


Re: Transponder outage

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

I think that as lot's of don't have to re-boot, it's more likely
to be a computer problem than a card problem ?

Dave
Were mine the only computer affected, and if this computer had shown
problems in the past, I would agree with you. As it is, I am forced
to the conclusion that the card is not 100% compatible with all
PCs. It certainly wouldn't be the first card to suffer such
problems.

Perhaps I should be convinced that the USB solution doesn't have
these difficulties!

Cheers,
David


Re: Transponder outage

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Ian S Deans" <ian@i...> wrote:
I checked both recent outages on my normal television ( using
motorised
dish ) and all FTA and encrypted channels were out -- no
signal. In my
opinion this has to be entirely down to Eutelsat, and Eumetsat
would have
had no control over this loss.

Ian
Thanks for that Ian, you are making good use of your facilities!
Presumably, the fault could still have been due to the uplink rather
than the satellite itself.

Cheers,
David