Date   
Re: Transponder outage

Dave Martin <Dave.Martin@...>
 

Alan - I'd have to beg to differ - whilst you can uplink a whole transponder's worth of content from one teleport; you can equally have many parties' traffic carried over the same transponder, uplinked from a variety of locations.

As I understand it, a basic transponder acts as a frequency-multiplexed "bent-pipe" - anything that comes in, within a particular frequency range (which can be hundreds of MHz) and has the correct polarisation, is re-broadcast back to Earth with a frequency shift applied.

Think of VSAT networks - some admittedly have more complex DAMA (demand assigned) channel allocation - but in the basic single channel per carrier you can have as thin as say 32k equivalent bandwidth, and you rent maybe tens of megs (which in itself is only a portion of a transponder) and then uplink from N terminals in the field.

So - I wouldn't rule out transponder problems - now that could be on-board (as in SSPA) but it could also be a command & control issue .....

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: Alan Sewards
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 8:18 AM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage


Ian,
Why? There will be one uplink transmitter for each transponder and all
the traffic for that transponder will go over it, so if the uplink goes
down, so does the lot. Sounds like finger trouble on the ground to me!

Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian S Deans" <ian@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage


> David,
>
> Unlikely I think to be the uplink with all other channels out. My guess is
> problem with the satellite.
>
> Regards
>
> Ian
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
> To: <MSG-1@...>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:35 PM
> Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage
>
> > Thanks for that Ian, you are making good use of your facilities!
> > Presumably, the fault could still have been due to the uplink rather
> > than the satellite itself.
>

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Re: Transponder outage

Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>
 

Ian,
Why? There will be one uplink transmitter for each transponder and all
the traffic for that transponder will go over it, so if the uplink goes
down, so does the lot. Sounds like finger trouble on the ground to me!

Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian S Deans" <ian@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 10:55 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage


David,

Unlikely I think to be the uplink with all other channels out. My guess is
problem with the satellite.

Regards

Ian
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:35 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage

Thanks for that Ian, you are making good use of your facilities!
Presumably, the fault could still have been due to the uplink rather
than the satellite itself.



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Re: Transponder outage

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

David,

Unlikely I think to be the uplink with all other channels out. My guess is
problem with the satellite.

Regards

Ian

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:35 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage

Thanks for that Ian, you are making good use of your facilities!
Presumably, the fault could still have been due to the uplink rather
than the satellite itself.

MSG - IR

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

It's back with the start of the next scan... very strange

Douglas.

Re: Infra-red channels

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 7:39 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Infra-red channels


.. anyone seeing problems with the infra-red channels since around
1745 UTC?

David
Since starting with the new beta my channel 9 seems to have disappeared.
The 'hint' says it is there but no image. I don't take the other IR's.
Ian seems to be ok.
Time for the football !

Regards
Douglas.

Infra-red channels

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

.. anyone seeing problems with the infra-red channels since around
1745 UTC?

David

Re: Transponder outage

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

I think that as lot's of don't have to re-boot, it's more likely
to be a computer problem than a card problem ?

Dave
Were mine the only computer affected, and if this computer had shown
problems in the past, I would agree with you. As it is, I am forced
to the conclusion that the card is not 100% compatible with all
PCs. It certainly wouldn't be the first card to suffer such
problems.

Perhaps I should be convinced that the USB solution doesn't have
these difficulties!

Cheers,
David

Re: Transponder outage

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

--- In MSG-1@..., "Ian S Deans" <ian@i...> wrote:
I checked both recent outages on my normal television ( using
motorised
dish ) and all FTA and encrypted channels were out -- no
signal. In my
opinion this has to be entirely down to Eutelsat, and Eumetsat
would have
had no control over this loss.

Ian
Thanks for that Ian, you are making good use of your facilities!
Presumably, the fault could still have been due to the uplink rather
than the satellite itself.

Cheers,
David

Re: Transponder outage

Timestep <Information@...>
 

From: Dave Cawley
Timestep Dartmouth England
e-mail Information@...
Web site http://www.Time-step.com
Tel. +44 (0)1803 833366
Fax. +44 (0)1803 839498

I think that as lot's of don't have to re-boot, it's more likely to be a
computer problem than a card problem ?

Dave

Re: Transponder outage

Ian S Deans <ian@...>
 

I checked both recent outages on my normal television ( using motorised
dish ) and all FTA and encrypted channels were out -- no signal. In my
opinion this has to be entirely down to Eutelsat, and Eumetsat would have
had no control over this loss.

Ian

Re: Transponder outage

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

We have to remember that this card is a very inexpensive item
and should
be thankful it works as well as it does. As Douglas has pointed
out,
tranponders should not be going up and down like yo-yos, this is
extremely
unusual behaviour. Under normal conditions the transponder should
be on for
the life of the satellite, the feed might be interrupted but the
transponder
should be solid. It is possible that this is the case here - it
could be the
uplink that is the flaky part or even the computer that switches
whatever is
being sent over the transponder (why do I say even - that is the
most likely
item!).
Is there any significance in the fact that Eumetsat talk of "Uplink
problems" rather than transponder problems?

Is it a co-incidence that ever since the 13:00 UTC problems the
signal quality and SNR seem to be peaking to higher levels here (up
to 1.5dB) than before?

Any more questions?

Cheers,
David

Re: Transponder outage

Alan Sewards <alan.sewards@...>
 

I am one of the lucky ones whose system coasts through the lack of
signal and continues when the signal reappears (Win XP Home, single machine
running DVB, Tellique, MDM). But my experience is mixed. I have found that
if for some reason, tqrecv stops, its game over and turning off the computer
and waiting a few seconds and then restarting is the only way to get it
going again. A warm reboot does not work. On the other hand, if tqrecv keeps
running, all is well, and things will start up again as soon as the red
world turns green. The need to power down suggest that the card is not being
reset either by software or a warm reboot, which is a hardware design fault
on the DVB card if this is so. For those who require a reboot when data
stops arriving - is tqrecv still running? If you need a reboot, is the world
icon green or red? (in other words, is data being received by the DVB
card?).
We have to remember that this card is a very inexpensive item and should
be thankful it works as well as it does. As Douglas has pointed out,
tranponders should not be going up and down like yo-yos, this is extremely
unusual behaviour. Under normal conditions the transponder should be on for
the life of the satellite, the feed might be interrupted but the transponder
should be solid. It is possible that this is the case here - it could be the
uplink that is the flaky part or even the computer that switches whatever is
being sent over the transponder (why do I say even - that is the most likely
item!). But my experience indicates that the card will survive a loss of
signal and the DVB driver software (setup4pc) seems to as well. It seems to
be the coupling of tqrecv with the card which results in problems for some
people or under certain conditions.

Regards - Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Taylor" <david-taylor@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 4:14 PM
Subject: [MSG-1] Re: Transponder outage


I notice that a reboot is required on a great number of occation
after the flow of data stops . Why is this, is it the soft ware or
the sat? A reboot to my mind is a failure of the system some where.
If the system is that "flacky" then when can we expect the overall
system to be stable? I know we are still in the experimental stage
but by now I would have thought it would be more stable

regards

trevor.
I am another of these people who's system requires a reboot. This
time I tried rebooting _before_ the satellite came back, so I was in
a Red Icon state, but when the transponder came back my system
started straight away. So I what can I conclude from that?
Something isn't resetting the card correctly on transponder loss?

It seems to me that it's primarily the DVB PC card/Tellique software
that is the greatest instability - and it works OK for many, but
not, people.

Cheers,
David



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Re: GRB and BFR files

James Brown <james@...>
 

In message <E1ACKyc-0002bu-00@...>, Tom Schoettle <tomsracing@...> writes
Hello James,

unfortunately you picked the wrong program. this one is not for weather GRIB
files, it's made for HP calculator GROB files which happen to have the same file
extension as the weather GRIB files.
Thanks Tom - I thought it was a bit of a long shot, but worth giving a try. I also tried deleting the first text bytes and tried it again, but to no avail - so I guess as you say - wrong grb!

Cheers,
James
--
James Brown

Re: GRB and BFR files

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

I've downloaded and tried it but it...
It converts the grib example file even if with .grb extension but the
tif I've obtained is empty and the program writes "corrupt file"

and what about bufr?
Folks, both of these files seem to be in WMO (?) format where there is a
few bytes of text before the actual GRIB or BUFR data. You will need to
delete those bytes before processing....

Cheers,
David

Re: GRB and BFR files

Corrado Brigante <corrado@...>
 

I've downloaded and tried it but it...
It converts the grib example file even if with .grb extension but the tif I've obtained is empty and the program writes "corrupt file"

and what about bufr?

Cheers
Corrado

----- Original Message -----
From: Tom Schoettle
To: MSG-1@...
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] GRB and BFR files


Hello James,

unfortunately you picked the wrong program. this one is not for weather GRIB
files, it's made for HP calculator GROB files which happen to have the same file
extension as the weather GRIB files.

The help text to GROB2TIF says:

GROB2TIF.TXT File

GROB to TIFF File Converter

Copyright (c) Hewlett-Packard Company, 1992.


Overview
--------

The GROB2TIF application is a program for your MS-DOS compatible personal
computer that converts an HP 48 graphics object (GROB) into a TIFF (Tag
Image File Format) file. TIFF format graphics can be used by word
processors, paint programs, and desktop publishing programs.




On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:12:20 +0100, James Brown wrote:

>In message <E1ACKYP-0005m5-00@...>, Tom Schoettle
><tomsracing@...> writes
>>
>>Hello James,
>>
>>could you share with us where to get the converter program?
>
>This is the only site I could find easily:
>
>http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone20/cat315/4980.htm
>
>Cheers,
>
>James
>--
>James Brown
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>MSG-1-unsubscribe@...
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>




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Re: GRB and BFR files

Tom Schoettle <tomsracing@...>
 

Hello James,

unfortunately you picked the wrong program. this one is not for weather GRIB
files, it's made for HP calculator GROB files which happen to have the same file
extension as the weather GRIB files.

The help text to GROB2TIF says:

GROB2TIF.TXT File

GROB to TIFF File Converter

Copyright (c) Hewlett-Packard Company, 1992.


Overview
--------

The GROB2TIF application is a program for your MS-DOS compatible personal
computer that converts an HP 48 graphics object (GROB) into a TIFF (Tag
Image File Format) file. TIFF format graphics can be used by word
processors, paint programs, and desktop publishing programs.

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:12:20 +0100, James Brown wrote:

In message <E1ACKYP-0005m5-00@...>, Tom Schoettle
<tomsracing@...> writes

Hello James,

could you share with us where to get the converter program?
This is the only site I could find easily:

http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone20/cat315/4980.htm

Cheers,

James
--
James Brown


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Re: GRB and BFR files

James Brown <james@...>
 

Same here....had to open a DOS window.... my memory doesn't go that far back
too easily !

Regards
Douglas.
Yes indeedy! Become sloppy in my middle-age!!

James
--
James Brown

Re: GRB and BFR files

James Brown <james@...>
 

In message <E1ACKYP-0005m5-00@...>, Tom Schoettle <tomsracing@...> writes

Hello James,

could you share with us where to get the converter program?
This is the only site I could find easily:

http://www.programmersheaven.com/zone20/cat315/4980.htm

Cheers,

James
--
James Brown

Re: GRB and BFR files

Tom Schoettle <tomsracing@...>
 

Hello James,

could you share with us where to get the converter program?

I don't think GRIB is a bad format. Just complex enough to make the
development of Software a long and complicated process. Hence the
lack of tools which can read and digest these files.

To test and validate GRIB files download the free wgrib from
ftp://wesley.wwb.noaa.gov/pub/wgrib/machines/Windows/

the homepage is at http://wesley.wwb.noaa.gov/wgrib.html

excellent tool, I use it for some years now.

Tom

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:46:28 +0100, James Brown wrote:

In message <bn62u1+qjud@...>, David Taylor
<david-taylor@...> writes
Folks, I now have a GRB and BFR file (about 500KB each) if
anyone
wants to have a go at decoding them. I'll put them up on the files
area.....
I tried using the only grb to tiff convertor that I could find and it
reported a corrupted file. I guess all the bad things that are said
about grb on the web may be true!

Cheers,
James
--
James Brown


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Re: GRB and BFR files

Douglas Deans <douglas@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Brown" <james@...>
To: <MSG-1@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] GRB and BFR files


In message <bn62u1+qjud@...>, David Taylor
<david-taylor@...> writes
Folks, I now have a GRB and BFR file (about 500KB each) if anyone
wants to have a go at decoding them. I'll put them up on the files
area.....
I tried using the only grb to tiff convertor that I could find and it
reported a corrupted file. I guess all the bad things that are said
about grb on the web may be true!

Cheers,
James
--
James Brown

Same here....had to open a DOS window.... my memory doesn't go that far back
too easily !

Regards
Douglas.