Date   

Re: SR1 changing receiving channel?

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

On 05/05/2021 16:09, geojohnt via groups.io wrote:
Hello All,
I want to check the EUMETCast back-up satellite test dissemination from Hotbird.
Could someone please tell me - in step by step, and for me, idiot proof ways how to change/configure the SR1 via Telnet to the new frequency and polarisation?
Many thanks,
John Tellick.
John,

I think it's just polarisation and frequency. I took a look with my TBS5925 and BDADataEx and saw nothing, but that's without moving the dish, so not surprising.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: daily cyclic signal change

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

On 05/05/2021 16:04, Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io wrote:
On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 07:51 AM, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺 wrote:
Except it's EUTELSAT 10A we are receiving, not Met-11.
Puuhh,
of course you are right David. Futher down on this list we have done a lot of investigation
in a thread "Figure 8". I must even have some animated gif data somewhere. Apart from
the 8 there was a drift and periodic reset of EUTELSAT 10A in longitude. Tempi passati ...
Best regards,
Ernst
Yes, I mentioned that to Nigel when he first asked. My impression is that the orbital figure of 8 isn't enough to affect the size of dish we typically use, but Nigel's is 140 cm.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


SR1 changing receiving channel?

geojohnt@...
 

Hello All,

I want to check the EUMETCast back-up satellite test dissemination from Hotbird.
Could someone please tell me - in step by step, and for me, idiot proof ways how to change/configure the SR1 via Telnet to the new frequency and polarisation?

Many thanks,
John Tellick.



Re: daily cyclic signal change

Ernst Lobsiger
 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 07:51 AM, David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺 wrote:
Except it's EUTELSAT 10A we are receiving, not Met-11.
Puuhh,

of course you are right David. Futher down on this list we have done a lot of investigation
in a thread "Figure 8". I must even have some animated gif data somewhere. Apart from
the 8 there was a drift and periodic reset of EUTELSAT 10A in longitude. Tempi passati ...

Best regards,
Ernst


Re: daily cyclic signal change

geojohnt@...
 

Ian,

Yes that may well be the case.

>Keep in mind that at the moment Eumetsat are about half way through the
>4 day Hotbird 13 test so that is likely to account for your "doing
>something in the last few days."

Oh no!
I thought it was next week!

Further posting to MSG-! coming up now!

John



John I too saw a brief increase yesterday, but I suspect it was a switch

to their back up station, which I suspect was the explanation for the
increase a few days ago as we know that station increases our signal level.

Keep in mind that at the moment Eumetsat are about half way through the
4 day Hotbird 13 test so that is likely to account for your "doing
something in the last few days."

Regards
Ian.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Deans via groups.io <iandeans142@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Sent: Wed, 5 May 2021 15:56
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] daily cyclic signal change



On 05/05/2021 15:35, geojohnt via groups.io wrote:
> Hello Nigel,
>
> Good to hear from you again.
>
> Firstly TP 1 has been 'doing something' in the last few days.
> You will have seen that Ian and I reported a few days ago that our SNR
> has increased considerably - but it wasn't to last.
> Back to normal a day or so later.
> Though I did see another brief increase again yesterday afternoon.

====================================================================






Re: daily cyclic signal change

Ian Deans
 

On 05/05/2021 15:35, geojohnt via groups.io wrote:
Hello Nigel,
Good to hear from you again.
Firstly TP 1 has been 'doing something' in the last few days.
You will have seen that Ian and I reported a few days ago that our SNR has increased considerably - but it wasn't to last.
Back to normal a day or so later.
Though I did see another brief increase again yesterday afternoon.
====================================================================

John I too saw a brief increase yesterday, but I suspect it was a switch to their back up station, which I suspect was the explanation for the increase a few days ago as we know that station increases our signal level.

Keep in mind that at the moment Eumetsat are about half way through the 4 day Hotbird 13 test so that is likely to account for your "doing something in the last few days."

Regards
Ian.


Re: daily cyclic signal change

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

On 05/05/2021 14:44, Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io wrote:
Nigel
[]
Meteosat 11 inclination is 0.13°. As Hartmut said this produces an 8 in the sky.
https://www.eumetsat.int/meteosat-orbital-parameters <https://www.eumetsat.int/meteosat-orbital-parameters>
[]
Regards,
Ernst
Except it's EUTELSAT 10A we are receiving, not Met-11.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: Request for advice: dish wobbling in the wind, alignment & signal quality

Youssef Bennouna
 

Peter,
It's an important issue for most amateurs as they generally put their
satellite dishes on top of the roof. The wind patterns on the roof are not
the same as an open field, in some places, the winds are stronger and weaker
in others. The wind strength, gusts, and turbulence vary from place to place
on the roof. It depends on many factors like the height of the building, the
existence and height of neighboring buildings, the direction of the dominant
wind...local winds are not the same as those measured by a weather station.
A better assessment of local conditions is necessary before choosing the
right location for the dish, taking into account of course other factors
like cable distance, clear view of the satellite etc.
Here are some pictures showing wind distribution patterns around and over
buildings (from CFD study, comments are in French). This might help you
figure out a better place for your dish and avoid very installing heavy
mechanical duty to stabilize it.
I hope this will help.
Best regards


Youssef Bennouna
ETUDES ET MESURES LES 5 DOMAINES

Villa 176, Bassatine El Menzeh
12123 - EL MENZEH
MAROC
TEL : (+212) 0537 01 14 41
GSM : (+212) 0661 10 97 43

-----Message d'origine-----
De : MSG-1@groups.io [mailto:MSG-1@groups.io] De la part de Peter Novak
Envoyé : mercredi 5 mai 2021 08:18
À : MSG-1@groups.io
Objet : [MSG-1] Request for advice: dish wobbling in the wind, alignment &
signal quality

Dear group,
we have installed a 120cm satellite dish on a roof of an office building at
a relatively exposed location near the sea coast in the Netherlands.
Things work quite fine, in good weather conditions our signal strength is at
-25/-26dBm and Es/No at 13.0-13.5dB with solid link margins for both BAS
(~7.4dB), as well as HVS (~3.6dB). We are receiving HVS stream data. That's
all fine and well. However, in more windy conditions the dish wobbles quite
a lot (easily by 2-4cm at the top), which in turn leads to misalignments,
occasional loss of lock and subsequent loss of received files. As an
example, I made a short video of the dish moving in 6 Bft wind here:
https://owncloud.hq.meandair.com/s/Zo3mKIsiRk9ByG5

I wonder what solutions other group members are using to mitigate this
problem. I looked at some metal support arms/struts which would affix the
dish sides to the mast better than now, but I don't even know how are such
products called.

I would appreciate any advice, or pointers to improvements of the setup to
mitigate the misalignments in windy conditions we are experiencing.

Thanks a lot for your advice.

Best regards,

Peter.


Re: daily cyclic signal change

geojohnt@...
 

Hello Nigel,

Good to hear from you again.

Firstly TP 1 has been 'doing something' in the last few days.
You will have seen that Ian and I reported a few days ago that our SNR has increased considerably - but it wasn't to last.
Back to normal a day or so later.
Though I did see another brief increase again yesterday afternoon.

By daily variation, do you mean at 'set' times/periods - your graphs appear to show this.
I too have a variation in SNR during the day - diurnal variation - due to that state of the atmosphere/troposphere.
I wrote an article about this for the GEO Quarterly a few years ago.

I always wondered about whether 'we' would see signal variations due to a satellite's figure of 8 movements but dismissed this as the movements were 'very small.'
However looking at EUMETSAT's dish off pointing graphs as posted by Ernst, you can lose 1 dB 'very easily' with an 0.5 degree dish error when using larger dishes.

Goodness, is it possibly to align a dish to 0.5 degree accuracy or less? 

Best wishes,
John.

 

 




-----Original Message-----
From: nigel <nigel@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Sent: Wed, 5 May 2021 14:00
Subject: [MSG-1] daily cyclic signal change

Hi Folks,
for a long time now, I have been seeing a daily variation in my received signal. I have been told that it was probably due to a slight misalignment of my ground mounted 1.5 Metre prime focus dish.
The stations location is North Cyprus ( 35.36 N, 33.03 E ) at an elevation of about 100 Metre.
MRTG graphs, showing these variations can be seen here :- http://www.nigelheasman.com/mrtg/SR1/inwin_mrtg_sr1.html
I have tried several times to improve the alignment, following various folks methods and now feel it is the best I can achieve. But, the cyclic variations continue !
The link margins are good enough to enable me to receive the Basic Service as well as High Volume Service 1, so I am happy with the result ( until my dogs crash into it and upset the alignment ! ) BUT I am intrigued by this variation and wondering if the magnitude and/or timing of the peaks and troughs can give a clue as to which part of the alignment could be improved?
Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions, please?
Looking forward to reading any comments!
Thanks
Nigel


Re: daily cyclic signal change

nigel
 

Thanks Ernst.

I see it even on cold cloudy days so don't think it's temperature related.

I have a hill behind the house, in the direction of the satellite so, yes, the dish is looking quite close to my "horizon".

I'm happy to understand that what I am seeing is, most likely, due to the satellite describing a figure of 8 !!

Regards

Nigel


On 05/05/2021 16:44, Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io wrote:
Nigel

Could this be a temperature effect with lowest SNR when the LNB gets hot in full
sunshine. Or do you see the same SNR variations if the sky is completly overcast?

Meteosat 11 inclination is 0.13°. As Hartmut said this produces an 8 in the sky.

https://www.eumetsat.int/meteosat-orbital-parameters

Your antenna beam almost scratches the horizon. So this may leed to another
explanation. You can find the effect of antenna pointing errors in this guide:

https://www-cdn.eumetsat.int/files/2020-04/pdf_eumetcast_anten_point_guide.pdf

Let's hope that the lower half of the (app. +/- 0.13°) 8 is not below your horizon.

Regards,
Ernst


Re: daily cyclic signal change

nigel
 

Thanks Hartmut. I hadn't fully appreciated that.

Regards

Nigel

On 05/05/2021 16:18, Hartmut Schulla via groups.io wrote:

Hi!

Geostationary satellites are not really fixed in the orbit. They moves like an 8 around a definite point to save fuel.

The larger your reception dish with a smaller beam, the greater the difference to the actual orbit position.

With an motorized dish you are able to follow the movements oft he satellite.

Regards

Hartmut Schulla

 

Von: MSG-1@groups.io <MSG-1@groups.io> Im Auftrag von nigel
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Mai 2021 15:01
An: MSG-1@groups.io
Betreff: [MSG-1] daily cyclic signal change

 

Hi Folks,
for a long time now, I have been seeing a daily variation in my received signal. I have been told that it was probably due to a slight misalignment of my ground mounted 1.5 Metre prime focus dish.
The stations location is North Cyprus ( 35.36 N, 33.03 E ) at an elevation of about 100 Metre.
MRTG graphs, showing these variations can be seen here :- http://www.nigelheasman.com/mrtg/SR1/inwin_mrtg_sr1.html
I have tried several times to improve the alignment, following various folks methods and now feel it is the best I can achieve. But, the cyclic variations continue !
The link margins are good enough to enable me to receive the Basic Service as well as High Volume Service 1, so I am happy with the result ( until my dogs crash into it and upset the alignment ! ) BUT I am intrigued by this variation and wondering if the magnitude and/or timing of the peaks and troughs can give a clue as to which part of the alignment could be improved?
Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions, please?
Looking forward to reading any comments!
Thanks
Nigel


Re: daily cyclic signal change

Ernst Lobsiger
 

Nigel

Could this be a temperature effect with lowest SNR when the LNB gets hot in full
sunshine. Or do you see the same SNR variations if the sky is completly overcast?

Meteosat 11 inclination is 0.13°. As Hartmut said this produces an 8 in the sky.

https://www.eumetsat.int/meteosat-orbital-parameters

Your antenna beam almost scratches the horizon. So this may leed to another
explanation. You can find the effect of antenna pointing errors in this guide:

https://www-cdn.eumetsat.int/files/2020-04/pdf_eumetcast_anten_point_guide.pdf

Let's hope that the lower half of the (app. +/- 0.13°) 8 is not below your horizon.

Regards,
Ernst


Re: daily cyclic signal change

Hartmut Schulla
 

Hi!

Geostationary satellites are not really fixed in the orbit. They moves like an 8 around a definite point to save fuel.

The larger your reception dish with a smaller beam, the greater the difference to the actual orbit position.

With an motorized dish you are able to follow the movements oft he satellite.

Regards

Hartmut Schulla

 

Von: MSG-1@groups.io <MSG-1@groups.io> Im Auftrag von nigel
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 5. Mai 2021 15:01
An: MSG-1@groups.io
Betreff: [MSG-1] daily cyclic signal change

 

Hi Folks,
for a long time now, I have been seeing a daily variation in my received signal. I have been told that it was probably due to a slight misalignment of my ground mounted 1.5 Metre prime focus dish.
The stations location is North Cyprus ( 35.36 N, 33.03 E ) at an elevation of about 100 Metre.
MRTG graphs, showing these variations can be seen here :- http://www.nigelheasman.com/mrtg/SR1/inwin_mrtg_sr1.html
I have tried several times to improve the alignment, following various folks methods and now feel it is the best I can achieve. But, the cyclic variations continue !
The link margins are good enough to enable me to receive the Basic Service as well as High Volume Service 1, so I am happy with the result ( until my dogs crash into it and upset the alignment ! ) BUT I am intrigued by this variation and wondering if the magnitude and/or timing of the peaks and troughs can give a clue as to which part of the alignment could be improved?
Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions, please?
Looking forward to reading any comments!
Thanks
Nigel


daily cyclic signal change

nigel
 

Hi Folks,
for a long time now, I have been seeing a daily variation in my received signal. I have been told that it was probably due to a slight misalignment of my ground mounted 1.5 Metre prime focus dish.
The stations location is North Cyprus ( 35.36 N, 33.03 E ) at an elevation of about 100 Metre.
MRTG graphs, showing these variations can be seen here :- http://www.nigelheasman.com/mrtg/SR1/inwin_mrtg_sr1.html
I have tried several times to improve the alignment, following various folks methods and now feel it is the best I can achieve. But, the cyclic variations continue !
The link margins are good enough to enable me to receive the Basic Service as well as High Volume Service 1, so I am happy with the result ( until my dogs crash into it and upset the alignment ! ) BUT I am intrigued by this variation and wondering if the magnitude and/or timing of the peaks and troughs can give a clue as to which part of the alignment could be improved?
Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions, please?
Looking forward to reading any comments!
Thanks
Nigel


Re: Request for advice: dish wobbling in the wind, alignment & signal quality

Ernst Lobsiger
 

On Wed, May 5, 2021 at 01:17 AM, Peter Novak wrote:
I would appreciate any advice, or pointers to improvements of the setup
to mitigate the misalignments in windy conditions we are experiencing.
Hello Peter

I looked up the mechanical specs of your SAB Satellite (S120/M120) dish here:

https://www.sabsatellite.nl/upload/files/1452181362-SAB%202014%20dishes.pdf

It's 108.2 x 120.6cm in 0.9mm steel. Mast diameter possible 34 - 60mm.

Already the mast diameter span is close to unacceptable for a 120cm dish.
Also the long pillar for the LNB does not look very stable for a 120cm dish.

Your problem seems to be a resonance effect with the natural mechanical
oscillation frequency of the dish. The steel material works like a spring with little
attenuation and the frequency is low because the M120 mount is not wide enough.

A couple of us use a Gibertini OP 125 L. You find the specs under this link:

https://www.gibertini.it/index.php/en/antennas-uk/op-125-l

Compare: We use the 1.5mm aluminum dish. Mast diameter span is 55 - 100mm.
6 Bft is 40 - 50km/h. I have never seen wobbling with much stronger winds.

I attach two images of my dish. Please note the stable construction of the LNB support.
But also note the mass of concrete plates used to keep my homebrew tripod struts on
the ground. YOUR CONSTRUCTION LOOKS TOO LIGHTWEIGHT FOR A 120cm DISH!

You most probably will not find any commertial cure for a consumer product like this.
This means you have to homebrew your own solution. You will need a minimum
of mechanical tools and skills and get some material from a harware store.

Here is my advice:

1) Make sure your antenna is not blown away. Use another 4 concrete plates.

2) Try to stabilize the dish with 4 aluminum stripe struts to the pole.
   The downside is this makes repointing close to mission impossible.
   Also it's possible that the dish can be distorted by temperature effects.
3) As an alternatve you can try to introduce some mechanical attenuation.
   This could be some thick plastic tube, corrugated electric pipe, garden
   hose or even of these  https://www.flickr.com/photos/rvoegtli/4650067041
   "Fun Noodles" that you clamp H/V accross on the backside of your dish.
4) You can bring down the natural oscillation frequency by attaching left
   and right a 1kg screw clamp to the brim (on your own risk and peril!).

5) Buy a more professional dish and a solid/heavy 80mm mast construction.


Good Luck

Ernst


Re: Request for advice: dish wobbling in the wind, alignment & signal quality

Barry Smith
 

In message <20210505081740.GS8018@meandair.com>
"Peter Novak" <eumetcast@newsite.meandair.com> wrote:

Dear group,
we have installed a 120cm satellite dish on a roof of an office building
at a relatively exposed location near the sea coast in the Netherlands.
Things work quite fine, in good weather conditions our signal strength
is at -25/-26dBm and Es/No at 13.0-13.5dB with solid link margins for
both BAS (~7.4dB), as well as HVS (~3.6dB). We are receiving HVS stream
data. That's all fine and well. However, in more windy conditions the
dish wobbles quite a lot (easily by 2-4cm at the top), which in turn
leads to misalignments, occasional loss of lock and subsequent loss of
received files. As an example, I made a short video of the dish moving
in 6 Bft wind here: https://owncloud.hq.meandair.com/s/Zo3mKIsiRk9ByG5
I wonder what solutions other group members are using to mitigate this
problem. I looked at some metal support arms/struts which would affix
the dish sides to the mast better than now, but I don't even know how
are such products called.
I would appreciate any advice, or pointers to improvements of the setup
to mitigate the misalignments in windy conditions we are experiencing.
Thanks a lot for your advice.
Best regards,
Peter.
I haven't experienced problems like this. My 1m dish is in a sheltered
location.

What you could try is "guy wires" one end attached to the dish rim
(top, left and right?) the other end attached to the concrete slabs.

I have used https://www.radioworld.co.uk/radioworks-kevlar-guy-rope/ke
vlar-super-strong-guy-rope---50m-spool
on my vertical amateur radio aerial with duplex 3mm rope clamps like
these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/363341019743
You could use eye bolts in the concrete slabs and dish rim something
like these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232025047765

Barry
--


Re: TBS 5927

Ian Deans
 

On 04/05/2021 12:06, Ian Deans via groups.io wrote:
Can anyone who is using the TBS 5927 successfully on Windows 10 and by that I mean no losses or missed/recovered packets from their end please advise which TBS driver they are using.
Regards
Ian.
==============================================================

Thanks to all that replied. Likely not many using the TBS 5927 and those that are clearly not error free.

Regards
Ian.


Request for advice: dish wobbling in the wind, alignment & signal quality

Peter Novak
 

Dear group,
we have installed a 120cm satellite dish on a roof of an office building
at a relatively exposed location near the sea coast in the Netherlands.
Things work quite fine, in good weather conditions our signal strength
is at -25/-26dBm and Es/No at 13.0-13.5dB with solid link margins for
both BAS (~7.4dB), as well as HVS (~3.6dB). We are receiving HVS stream
data. That's all fine and well. However, in more windy conditions the
dish wobbles quite a lot (easily by 2-4cm at the top), which in turn
leads to misalignments, occasional loss of lock and subsequent loss of
received files. As an example, I made a short video of the dish moving
in 6 Bft wind here: https://owncloud.hq.meandair.com/s/Zo3mKIsiRk9ByG5

I wonder what solutions other group members are using to mitigate this
problem. I looked at some metal support arms/struts which would affix
the dish sides to the mast better than now, but I don't even know how
are such products called.

I would appreciate any advice, or pointers to improvements of the setup
to mitigate the misalignments in windy conditions we are experiencing.

Thanks a lot for your advice.

Best regards,

Peter.


Can anyone tell me where to purchase the Ayecka sr1 in the Uk Please. The Geo shop is now closed.. Thanks

Bfost
 

Looking for Ayecka sr1 in the Uk.


Re: TBS 5927

Youssef Bennouna
 

I am experiencing the same problem with HVS-1 but I’ve been told that my antenna was not fully oriented to EUTELSAT 10 (A) because my SNR is about 9-10 dB. I suppose you don’t have this problem, as you have a good SNR.

 

Youssef Bennouna

ETUDES ET MESURES LES 5 DOMAINES

 

Villa 176, Bassatine El Menzeh

12123 - EL MENZEH

MAROC

TEL :  (+212)    0537 01 14 41

GSM :  (+212) 0661 10 97 43

 

De : MSG-1@groups.io [mailto:MSG-1@groups.io] De la part de Daniele Guardigli
Envoyé : mardi 4 mai 2021 12:49
À : MSG-1@groups.io
Objet : Re: [MSG-1] TBS 5927

 

In fact I've problems with HVS-1

 

Il Mar 4 Mag 2021, 13:48 Youssef Bennouna <ybennouna@...> ha scritto:

Hi,
I am using a TBS 5927 (1 month) it works OK, at least with the Basic service, the driver version I have is 1.0.0.7 downloaded from the TBS site.
Regards

Youssef Bennouna
ETUDES ET MESURES LES 5 DOMAINES

Villa 176, Bassatine El Menzeh
12123 - EL MENZEH
MAROC
TEL :  (+212)    0537 01 14 41
GSM :  (+212) 0661 10 97 43

-----Message d'origine-----
De : MSG-1@groups.io [mailto:MSG-1@groups.io] De la part de Ian Deans via groups.io
Envoyé : mardi 4 mai 2021 11:07
À : MSG-1@groups.io
Objet : [MSG-1] TBS 5927


Can anyone who is using the TBS 5927 successfully on Windows 10 and by that I mean no losses or missed/recovered packets from their end please advise which TBS driver they are using.

Regards
Ian.









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