Date   

Re: RAMDisk.

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

David,


Thanks for your detailed reply.

I'll try the beta version of GSS.
Opening a full length pass of Metop from AVHRR Manger into HRPT Manager runs quickly - OK, it hasn't got to remap the differing channel resolutions.

You raise/prompt another point, the 'new' Tellicast and add to that, the new EKU - which I understood(?) is more able to cope with lots (and even more in the future) of data?

I may just try - you know me - to update to the latest Tellicast or leave it till I get the new EKU.

Regards,
John.
=====================================

John,

Do try the beta GeoSatSignal - it's much faster to launch.

I think many of us have seen eToken issues, time-outs where TelliCast may or may not be automatically restarted. Although not strictly comparable, I'll be interested to see whether I get fewer of those. perhaps if it's a faster device there will be fewer time-outs.

Please let's know how you get on!

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: RAMDisk.

geojohnt@...
 

David,

Thanks for your detailed reply.

I'll try the beta version of GSS.
Opening a full length pass of Metop from AVHRR Manger into HRPT Manager runs quickly - OK, it hasn't got to remap the differing channel resolutions.

You raise/prompt another point, the 'new' Tellicast and add to that, the new EKU - which I understood(?) is more able to cope with lots (and even more in the future) of data?

I may just try - you know me - to update to the latest Tellicast or leave it till I get the new EKU.

Regards,
John. 

+++++++++++++++++

John,


Briefly, I'm setting up a new system and going to try it without a RAMdisk 
to start with.  It has 32 GB memory, so space for a RAMdisk if needed.  I 
still haven't decided whether to add HVS-2 to is as I don't use the data and 
I have another PC which can monitor HVS-2 signal level and TelliCast losses.

The quality of the graphics card is irrelevant for my software.

The delay in Open with GeoSatSignal is caused by a Windows-10 interaction, 
and can be resolved with the beta version:

  https://www.satsignal.eu/software/beta.htm

The Task Manager may not tell the whole story as it may be an interaction 
between disk I/O and Network I/O which causes the error messages, although I 
have seen "missing key" when there have been momentary drops in signal 
level.

As I'm building this new PC from scratch (and retiring two old ones) I'll be 
using the most recent TelliCast, although whether that will make a 
significant difference (2.14.5 to 2.14.6) I rather doubt.  I have seen older 
PCs (2010/2013) affected quite noticeably by the patches needed to bypass 
the problems used by the Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities.

I would suggest updating the TelliCast software, and noting the new 
buffering parameters.  Normally I would replace the TelliCast.exe and 
Licence.ini files.  Keep backups of the working versions just in case.

Cheers,

David

-- 
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv 

+++++++++++++++++++++

-----Original Message-----
From: David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺 via groups.io <david-taylor@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Sent: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 17:00
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] RAMDisk.

David,

You recently started a discussion on this group regarding which is the best
RAMDisk available currently.
This has prompted me to ask, having thought about it for some time now, as
to whether one should be using RAMdisk (again) these days with increased
data.


I still have my original RAMDISK (Z:) of 997 MB 'in place' but unused.


What made me wonder is that I use a single computer for reception and
processing receiving BS and HVS-1.
I'm running AVHRR Manager, 2 x GOES ABI, 2 x Metop Manager, MSG Animator, 4
x MSG Data Manager, Java - SRI Controller.


I attach a copy of my Task Manager Performance screen shot but it looks to
me that my computer is not stressed?
However, when I click 'Open last saved with GeoSatSignal' MSG 4 Manager HR
image, it takes 33 - 34 seconds for the remapped imaged to appear in GSS.
I realise there are a lot of calculations to perform but I'm sure it didn't
take that long some years ago on this computer with fewer SatSignal
programmes running and the level of data we have today to deal with.

CPU Intel i5-4690K @ 35 GHz
RAM 16GB.
Window 10 64 bit.
Separate fairly high powered graphics card..
2 monitors.

Everything seems to run OK so there is 'no problem.'
As is being discussed on another thread, I get some Tellicast Missed Packets
before FEC - though not that many over an extended period - but not many of
those are FEC Recovered Packets.
Though I never have (appear to have) gaps in my images.

And I do get some SR1 Bad Frame Count/s and Bad Packet Count/s over a
period.
SR1 SNR is mostly between 12.5 and 13.00 dB in fair weather.

And I get Tellicast Status warnings 'could not join ..... missing key' every
now and again.

So, reinstate my RAMdisk?
If so, BS or HVS-1 channels?

Regards,
John
====================================







Re: RAMDisk.

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

David,

You recently started a discussion on this group regarding which is the best RAMDisk available currently.
This has prompted me to ask, having thought about it for some time now, as to whether one should be using RAMdisk (again) these days with increased data.


I still have my original RAMDISK (Z:) of 997 MB 'in place' but unused.


What made me wonder is that I use a single computer for reception and processing receiving BS and HVS-1.
I'm running AVHRR Manager, 2 x GOES ABI, 2 x Metop Manager, MSG Animator, 4 x MSG Data Manager, Java - SRI Controller.


I attach a copy of my Task Manager Performance screen shot but it looks to me that my computer is not stressed?
However, when I click 'Open last saved with GeoSatSignal' MSG 4 Manager HR image, it takes 33 - 34 seconds for the remapped imaged to appear in GSS.
I realise there are a lot of calculations to perform but I'm sure it didn't take that long some years ago on this computer with fewer SatSignal programmes running and the level of data we have today to deal with.

CPU Intel i5-4690K @ 35 GHz
RAM 16GB.
Window 10 64 bit.
Separate fairly high powered graphics card..
2 monitors.

Everything seems to run OK so there is 'no problem.'
As is being discussed on another thread, I get some Tellicast Missed Packets before FEC - though not that many over an extended period - but not many of those are FEC Recovered Packets.
Though I never have (appear to have) gaps in my images.

And I do get some SR1 Bad Frame Count/s and Bad Packet Count/s over a period.
SR1 SNR is mostly between 12.5 and 13.00 dB in fair weather.

And I get Tellicast Status warnings 'could not join ..... missing key' every now and again.

So, reinstate my RAMdisk?
If so, BS or HVS-1 channels?

Regards,
John
====================================

John,

Briefly, I'm setting up a new system and going to try it without a RAMdisk to start with. It has 32 GB memory, so space for a RAMdisk if needed. I still haven't decided whether to add HVS-2 to is as I don't use the data and I have another PC which can monitor HVS-2 signal level and TelliCast losses.

The quality of the graphics card is irrelevant for my software.

The delay in Open with GeoSatSignal is caused by a Windows-10 interaction, and can be resolved with the beta version:

https://www.satsignal.eu/software/beta.htm

The Task Manager may not tell the whole story as it may be an interaction between disk I/O and Network I/O which causes the error messages, although I have seen "missing key" when there have been momentary drops in signal level.

As I'm building this new PC from scratch (and retiring two old ones) I'll be using the most recent TelliCast, although whether that will make a significant difference (2.14.5 to 2.14.6) I rather doubt. I have seen older PCs (2010/2013) affected quite noticeably by the patches needed to bypass the problems used by the Spectre and Meltdown vulnerabilities.

I would suggest updating the TelliCast software, and noting the new buffering parameters. Normally I would replace the TelliCast.exe and Licence.ini files. Keep backups of the working versions just in case.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: Holidays

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Hi David. my station will be offline from August 21, 2020 to September 7, 2020.

Robert
===============================================

Hope you have a great holiday - everyone will feel they've deserved one this year!

73,
David GM8ARV
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

geojohnt@...
 

Hello Ernst,

Thanks for your comments and diagrams.

I tried the 'other receivers' switch on again last evening when my SNR was a little higher and the Strong Viaccess receiver I use for French TNSAT TV, Eutelsat 9B for EbS and Astra 1 German TV channels sometimes but not always caused a small increase in Tellicast Missed Packets before FEC.  Most of these missed packets over time were/are never FEC recovered.

Also the SR1 readout showed increases in errors some of the time.

My SatPal spectrum analyser seemed to cause 'problems' more of the time when switching on at this time. 

But, these missed packets never seem to be a 'visible problem' as I do not see missed data gaps in my images.

>If I understand your first post right you were able to disturb the SR1 via a TV cable ON/OFF that runs >apart from the EUMETCast SR1 and Spectrum Analizer cables.

Yes that's right.
My satellite TV receiver is fed by a cable from another dish and LNB for Astra 1 French and German TV [this cable runs for a length in a plastic tube together with the SatPal cable and EUMETCast cable from the quad LNB] the third cable from the quad LNB runs on its own to the satellite TV receiver for Eutelsat 9B EbS.
The Astra 1 cable and the Eutelsat 9B cable are connected to the satellite TV receiver receiver via a hi isolation coax switch.
Yes I know, I should use a modern DiSEqC switch.

And yes, I too have seen a few missed packets occasionally when switching off 'another receiver.' 

Oh no!
I've just switched on the satellite TV receiver (from the EUMETCast quad LNB) with rain reduced SR1 SNR and no change in Tellicast missed packets!
Both rebooting the receiver and/or switching the antenna coax.

But switching on the SatPal spectrum analyser did cause an increase in BS lost packets (and increased FEC recovered packets!) but not in HVS-1 lost packets.
I switched the SatPal on again and no increase this time in BS (nor any in HVS-1).

I'm not sure I'm proving anything and maybe it's all a coincidence?

Best wishes,
John.

++++++++++++++++
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io <ernst.lobsiger@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Sent: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 20:37
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Hi John

Thank you for your experiments and detailed description of your system. It could well be that we see the effect only with lower SNR when everything is more easily disturbed.

If I understand your first post right you were able to disturb the SR1 via a TV cable ON/OFF that runs apart from the EUMETCast SR1 and Spectrum Analizer cables.
So this excludes a cable to cable induction which is even less likely when the cables only run 4.5m in the same tube. This should also test negative with your ASTRA TV.

Your system is good for a couple of more combinations to nail the culprit down. Maybe Ian can repeat his experiment so we can truly exclude the TWIN LNB from consideration.
In any case it must be certain, that at the moment you do the ON/OFF switching of a second receiver, the TELLICast receiver must download data of a subscribed channel.

Looking more closely at the problem today, I even see missed packets when the second source is switched OFF. I had the TC client renamed/rearranged on receiver Europa.
For that I had to take Europa down for a couple of minutes and also unload the DVB-Interfaces in GNU/Linux which will stop tuning and powering the respective LNB cable.

This disturbed receiver Titan on HVS-1 and HVS-2 with missed packets both when OFF and ON at Europa. The basic service on Titan was not affected. See my plots below.

Best regards
Ernst








Re: QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

geojohnt@...
 

Ernst,

Well, as far as I know, EUMETSAT are going to use a different satellite for future new streams (as well as Eutelsat 10 A).
I seem to recall a diagram some time ago from EUMETSAT regarding the setup of a multi LNB dish for current and future EUMETCast services.

Best wishes,
John.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 


-----Original Message-----
From: Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io <ernst.lobsiger@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Sent: Sun, 16 Aug 2020 17:44
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 05:02 AM, Markus Kempf wrote:
You might want to switch to this setup for unlimited flexibility and you have 4 cables already. 
Markus

I'am not interested in SAT TV and until we know how HVS-3, HVS-4  will be installed I will not follow EUMETSAT's QUATTRO recommandations.
A TBS6908 V10 can already handle all that today. But we get off topic. A "negative" post, that someone has a QUAD or TWIN LNB and at least
two TelliCast receivers (two cables) connected and does *NOT* see these missed packets I described above, would be valuble information too.

Cheers
Ernst


RAMDisk.

geojohnt@...
 

David,

You recently started a discussion on this group regarding which is the best RAMDisk available currently.
This has prompted me to ask, having thought about it for some time now, as to whether one should be using RAMdisk (again) these days with increased data.

I still have my original RAMDISK (Z:) of 997 MB 'in place' but unused.

What made me wonder is that I use a single computer for reception and processing receiving BS and HVS-1.
I'm running AVHRR Manager, 2 x GOES ABI, 2 x Metop Manager, MSG Animator, 4 x MSG Data Manager, Java - SRI Controller.

I attach a copy of my Task Manager Performance screen shot but it looks to me that my computer is not stressed?
However, when I click 'Open last saved with GeoSatSignal' MSG 4 Manager HR image, it takes 33 - 34 seconds for the remapped imaged to appear in GSS.
I realise there are a lot of calculations to perform but I'm sure it didn't take that long some years ago on this computer with fewer SatSignal programmes running and the level of data we have today to deal with.

CPU Intel i5-4690K @ 35 GHz
RAM 16GB.
Window 10 64 bit.
Separate fairly high powered graphics card..
2 monitors.

Everything seems to run OK so there is 'no problem.'
As is being discussed on another thread, I get some Tellicast Missed Packets before FEC - though not that many over an extended period - but not many of those are FEC Recovered Packets.
Though I never have (appear to have) gaps in my images.

And I do get some SR1 Bad Frame Count/s and Bad Packet Count/s over a period.
SR1 SNR is mostly between 12.5 and 13.00 dB in fair weather.

And I get Tellicast Status warnings 'could not join ..... missing key' every now and again.

So, reinstate my RAMdisk?
If so, BS or HVS-1 channels?

Regards,
John 

  
  


Holidays

Robert Baleja
 

Hi David. my station will be offline from August 21, 2020 to September 7, 2020.

Robert
Callsign SP7RB
QTH JO91QS67RM
www.rbalejameteo.pl
SP7RB@winlink.org
Wysłane z iPhone'a


Re: QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Ernst Lobsiger
 

Hi John

Thank you for your experiments and detailed description of your system. It could well be that we see the effect only with lower SNR when everything is more easily disturbed.

If I understand your first post right you were able to disturb the SR1 via a TV cable ON/OFF that runs apart from the EUMETCast SR1 and Spectrum Analizer cables.
So this excludes a cable to cable induction which is even less likely when the cables only run 4.5m in the same tube. This should also test negative with your ASTRA TV.

Your system is good for a couple of more combinations to nail the culprit down. Maybe Ian can repeat his experiment so we can truly exclude the TWIN LNB from consideration.
In any case it must be certain, that at the moment you do the ON/OFF switching of a second receiver, the TELLICast receiver must download data of a subscribed channel.

Looking more closely at the problem today, I even see missed packets when the second source is switched OFF. I had the TC client renamed/rearranged on receiver Europa.
For that I had to take Europa down for a couple of minutes and also unload the DVB-Interfaces in GNU/Linux which will stop tuning and powering the respective LNB cable.

This disturbed receiver Titan on HVS-1 and HVS-2 with missed packets both when OFF and ON at Europa. The basic service on Titan was not affected. See my plots below.

Best regards
Ernst








Re: QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

geojohnt@...
 

Hello again Ernst,

Well, that's annoying?

I've tried switching on my Satellite TV receiver twice again using the same quad port for Eutelsat 9B as before but this time - with increased SR1 SNR than the previous test, ~ +0.4 dB - it had no effect on either HVS-1 and BS Tellicast Statistics or the SR1 Telnet RX Status readout.

?????

Best wishes,
John

+++++++++++++++++++++++

-----Original Message-----
From: geojohnt via groups.io <geojohnt@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io <MSG-1@groups.io>
Sent: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 14:52
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Hello Ernst,

I've been watching this unfolding discussion and thought I would have a go.

I use a 'Quad Hi Gain Low Noise' Inverto Black Ultra LNB but only use two outputs regularly - one for 24/7 EUMETCast TP 1 the other for receiving Eutelsat 9B TV - not running 24/7 but switched on and off most days.

The third port I use occasionally for checking signal/spectrum on a spectrum analyser.

The Eutelsat 9B cable itself is separate from the other two 'quad cables' which run together for a length of around 4.5 m through a narrow plastic tube along with another cable coming from another dish receiving Astra 1 which is not on 24/7 but switched on and off for a time most days.

Total cable run is around 14/15 m and is CT100.
The Eutelsat 9B coax is from a German websate firm but I'm not sure of it's 'technical spec/quality.'
It's 'silver' screening mesh is fairly open and the 'metal shield' is also 'silver.'
Not as high a technical spec/quality as CT100.

Right, mmmm, interesting.
You appear to be right.

My Tellicast Statistics and SR1 Telnet readout have been running 3 days and 2 hours 15 minutes after a reset and the figures from that time were:

HVS 1 M. P. B4. FEC.  47
           FEC. R. P.         0

BS      M. P. BS. FEC. 10
           FEC. R. P.        10 

Switch on another port (Eutelsat 9B)  HVS 1 now M.P. B4. FEC.  104  -  FEC. R. P.   0.
                                                            BS now      M. P. B4. FEC.  170  -  FEC. R. P.   41 

SR1 Telnet Readout after '3 days 2 hr 15 mins reset:' 

B. F. C. 43
B. P. C. 351.

After switch on of adjacent Eutelst 9B port: B. F. C. 61  -  B. P. C. 361.

I switched the adjacent port on again an hour later - the second of (new) figures above had remained the same and the new figures were now:

HVS 1 M. B. P. B4. FEC   155.
           FEC. R. P.              1

BS      M. B. P. B4. FEC.   233
           FEC. R. P.              41    

SR1 readout 'second set new' figures above had remained the same, the new figures are now:

B. F. C.  62
B. P. C.  389

Sorry about the above tabulation format, I hope it remains as typed and makes sense.

It does seem switching on another quad output 'effects' EUMETCast's SR1 readout and Tellicast Statistics.

Best wishes,
John.

++++++++++++++++++

-----Original Message-----
From: Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io <ernst.lobsiger@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Sent: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 18:11
Subject: [MSG-1] QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Dear All

I have used a QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB for years. During this
summer I did again intensive testing with up to 4 TC receivers.
Only lately I discovered that the moment of starting a TC receiver
on one of the four cables can regularly produce missed packets
on the rest of the running TC receivers on the other three cables.

Has this been observed by other users that use a/this QUAD LNB?
Is this a problem of the multiswitch or some voltage regulator?
Can someone with electrical backgound comment on my 25m cables?
Is this a sign that it is about time to have this QUAD LNB replaced?


Best regards
Ernst

P.S.
It's well possible it has always been like that and I just didn't notice.


Re: QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Hendrik Fleming
 

Hi Ernest,
I had a similar experience with one of my other Quad-LNBs. I used 2 inputs to go to my TBS-6903, one input to go to a SDR  and my Spectrum Analyzer (via a little box supplying the pilot tone and correct voltage.) On that LNB I have noticed the 22kHz pilot tone on one channel seems to leak through and switch the other channels into high-band. Have since changed to a QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB and the problem has gone away. Maybe something similar is happening to yours. I haven't opened that funny LNB yet to see if I can figure out why the 22kHz pilot tone switches the other channels to High-band.

Regards
Hendrik


Re: QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

geojohnt@...
 

Hello Ernst,

I've been watching this unfolding discussion and thought I would have a go.

I use a 'Quad Hi Gain Low Noise' Inverto Black Ultra LNB but only use two outputs regularly - one for 24/7 EUMETCast TP 1 the other for receiving Eutelsat 9B TV - not running 24/7 but switched on and off most days.

The third port I use occasionally for checking signal/spectrum on a spectrum analyser.

The Eutelsat 9B cable itself is separate from the other two 'quad cables' which run together for a length of around 4.5 m through a narrow plastic tube along with another cable coming from another dish receiving Astra 1 which is not on 24/7 but switched on and off for a time most days.

Total cable run is around 14/15 m and is CT100.
The Eutelsat 9B coax is from a German websate firm but I'm not sure of it's 'technical spec/quality.'
It's 'silver' screening mesh is fairly open and the 'metal shield' is also 'silver.'
Not as high a technical spec/quality as CT100.

Right, mmmm, interesting.
You appear to be right.

My Tellicast Statistics and SR1 Telnet readout have been running 3 days and 2 hours 15 minutes after a reset and the figures from that time were:

HVS 1 M. P. B4. FEC.  47
           FEC. R. P.         0

BS      M. P. BS. FEC. 10
           FEC. R. P.        10 

Switch on another port (Eutelsat 9B)  HVS 1 now M.P. B4. FEC.  104  -  FEC. R. P.   0.
                                                            BS now      M. P. B4. FEC.  170  -  FEC. R. P.   41 

SR1 Telnet Readout after '3 days 2 hr 15 mins reset:' 

B. F. C. 43
B. P. C. 351.

After switch on of adjacent Eutelst 9B port: B. F. C. 61  -  B. P. C. 361.

I switched the adjacent port on again an hour later - the second of (new) figures above had remained the same and the new figures were now:

HVS 1 M. B. P. B4. FEC   155.
           FEC. R. P.              1

BS      M. B. P. B4. FEC.   233
           FEC. R. P.              41    

SR1 readout 'second set new' figures above had remained the same, the new figures are now:

B. F. C.  62
B. P. C.  389

Sorry about the above tabulation format, I hope it remains as typed and makes sense.

It does seem switching on another quad output 'effects' EUMETCast's SR1 readout and Tellicast Statistics.

Best wishes,
John.

 







-----Original Message-----
From: Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io <ernst.lobsiger@...>
To: MSG-1@groups.io
Sent: Sat, 15 Aug 2020 18:11
Subject: [MSG-1] QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Dear All

I have used a QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB for years. During this
summer I did again intensive testing with up to 4 TC receivers.
Only lately I discovered that the moment of starting a TC receiver
on one of the four cables can regularly produce missed packets
on the rest of the running TC receivers on the other three cables.

Has this been observed by other users that use a/this QUAD LNB?
Is this a problem of the multiswitch or some voltage regulator?
Can someone with electrical backgound comment on my 25m cables?
Is this a sign that it is about time to have this QUAD LNB replaced?


Best regards
Ernst

P.S.
It's well possible it has always been like that and I just didn't notice.


Re: QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Ernst Lobsiger
 

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 12:02 PM, Ian Deans wrote:
Ernst, I tried the above this evening and saw no missed packets.
Ian

Thanks for your test. I have an unused spare QUAD Inverto Black Ultra and will probably test this one.
Of course you can only get missed packets when file transfer takes place. But with Basic+HVS-1
and a couple of EUMETCast channels subscribed this should almost always be the case.

Regards
Ernst


Re: QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Ian Deans
 

On 16/08/2020 17:44, Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io wrote:
On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 05:02 AM, Markus Kempf wrote:
You might want to switch to this setup for unlimited flexibility and
you have 4 cables already. Markus
I'am not interested in SAT TV and until we know how HVS-3, HVS-4  will be installed I will not follow EUMETSAT's QUATTRO recommandations.
A TBS6908 V10 can already handle all that today. But we get off topic. A "negative" post, that someone has a QUAD or TWIN LNB and at least
two TelliCast receivers (two cables) connected and does *NOT* see these missed packets I described above, would be valuble information too.
Cheers
Ernst
___________________________________________________________________________

Ernst, I tried the above this evening and saw no missed packets.

I have a twin Inverto Black ultra and was running one cable attached to a TBS 5925 taking basic and HVS-1. The other cable was lying unattached to any receiver.

I then attached the spare cable to my SR1 and set it up for HVS-2 via telnet and then commenced to receive HVS-2 data. The basic and HVS-1 services from my TBS 5925 were still at 0 packets lost and no lost or recovered either.

Hope that helps.

Regards
Ian.


Re: QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Ernst Lobsiger
 

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 05:02 AM, Markus Kempf wrote:
You might want to switch to this setup for unlimited flexibility and you have 4 cables already. 
Markus

I'am not interested in SAT TV and until we know how HVS-3, HVS-4  will be installed I will not follow EUMETSAT's QUATTRO recommandations.
A TBS6908 V10 can already handle all that today. But we get off topic. A "negative" post, that someone has a QUAD or TWIN LNB and at least
two TelliCast receivers (two cables) connected and does *NOT* see these missed packets I described above, would be valuble information too.

Cheers
Ernst


Re: QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Markus Kempf
 

Ernst, yes I have quattro switches with fixed band/polarization outputs. You might want to switch to this setup for unlimited flexibility and you have 4 cables already. 

Markus
Am 16. Aug. 2020, 14:23 +0300 schrieb Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io <ernst.lobsiger@...>:

Markus

I know routers like the SR1 have the possibility to compensate for long cable runs with increased voltages. There is no such thing on my TBS PCIe cards.
But I think this has never been a problem so far. The fact that all my receivers have their independant APC-Smart-1000 UPS  might be a problem though.

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 03:57 AM, Markus Kempf wrote:
... two quad lnb for Astra/Hotbird with in-house Switches. 
I f you use in-house switches don't you actually have QUATTRO LNBs (... what EUMETSAT proposes us to use with multiple routers in the future) ?
Of course on Astra/Hotbird TV channels you will hardly see a small glitch if another channel is switching on.

Best regards
Ernst


<ABB_2495_03_09_Block_Quattro-LNB.gif>


Re: QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Ernst Lobsiger
 

Markus

I know routers like the SR1 have the possibility to compensate for long cable runs with increased voltages. There is no such thing on my TBS PCIe cards.
But I think this has never been a problem so far. The fact that all my receivers have their independant APC-Smart-1000 UPS  might be a problem though.

On Sun, Aug 16, 2020 at 03:57 AM, Markus Kempf wrote:
... two quad lnb for Astra/Hotbird with in-house Switches. 
I f you use in-house switches don't you actually have QUATTRO LNBs (... what EUMETSAT proposes us to use with multiple routers in the future) ?
Of course on Astra/Hotbird TV channels you will hardly see a small glitch if another channel is switching on.

Best regards
Ernst




Re: QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Markus Kempf
 

Ernst, you could try an increased supply voltage for the lnb. Some tuners allow this setting. You can also measure the nominally 13/18V at the LNB. Too low a voltage could be a reason. Second guess is a bad capacitor in the lnb. Third guess a suboptimal circuit design of the switch matrix. I own a single Inverto black ultra lnb with approx 30m of cable run and two quad lnb for Astra/Hotbird with in-house Switches. 

Markus
Am 16. Aug. 2020, 13:44 +0300 schrieb Ernst Lobsiger via groups.io <ernst.lobsiger@...>:

Dear All

I attach an schematic layout of a typical QUAD LNB. The only difference
from a SINGLE or TWIN LNB is the multiswitch (matrix) at the right side.

SINGLE: 4 x 1
TWIN   : 4 x 2
QUAD  : 4 x 4

So the effect I observed lately should also be seen on a TWIN LNB.
Assuming you have e.g. a TWIN Inverto Black Ultra LNB with two TC
receivers of any kind (Router like SR1, TBS PCIe card or USB-box).
If a first receiver is running (e.g with BASIC + HVS-1) and you
now start and tune the second receiver (e.g. HVS-2), does this
produce a burst of missed packets on the first TC receiver?

If this is a problem of the multiswitch maybe someone uses an
external multiswitch and has observed a similar effect. Switching
on one channel would give a burst of missed packets on a running
TelliCast receiver on a different cable?

My four 25m cables run in a plastic tube of about 1'' diameter. But
they have shielding > 100dB and I cannot think of a DC powering of one
cable can affect IF frequencies in another cable. HAMs might comment.


Best regards
Ernst

<ABB_2495_03_08_Block_Quad_L.gif>


Re: QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Ernst Lobsiger
 

Dear All

I attach an schematic layout of a typical QUAD LNB. The only difference
from a SINGLE or TWIN LNB is the multiswitch (matrix) at the right side.

SINGLE: 4 x 1
TWIN   : 4 x 2
QUAD  : 4 x 4

So the effect I observed lately should also be seen on a TWIN LNB.
Assuming you have e.g. a TWIN Inverto Black Ultra LNB with two TC
receivers of any kind (Router like SR1, TBS PCIe card or USB-box).
If a first receiver is running (e.g with BASIC + HVS-1) and you
now start and tune the second receiver (e.g. HVS-2), does this
produce a burst of missed packets on the first TC receiver?

If this is a problem of the multiswitch maybe someone uses an
external multiswitch and has observed a similar effect. Switching
on one channel would give a burst of missed packets on a running
TelliCast receiver on a different cable?

My four 25m cables run in a plastic tube of about 1'' diameter. But
they have shielding > 100dB and I cannot think of a DC powering of one
cable can affect IF frequencies in another cable. HAMs might comment.


Best regards
Ernst


QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB

Ernst Lobsiger
 

Dear All

I have used a QUAD Inverto Black Ultra LNB for years. During this
summer I did again intensive testing with up to 4 TC receivers.
Only lately I discovered that the moment of starting a TC receiver
on one of the four cables can regularly produce missed packets
on the rest of the running TC receivers on the other three cables.

Has this been observed by other users that use a/this QUAD LNB?
Is this a problem of the multiswitch or some voltage regulator?
Can someone with electrical backgound comment on my 25m cables?
Is this a sign that it is about time to have this QUAD LNB replaced?


Best regards
Ernst

P.S.
It's well possible it has always been like that and I just didn't notice.

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