Date   

Solar outage.

geojohnt@...
 

All,

The UK and Europe are going through their spring solar outage period and having commented on my own experiences, 
David raised an important point, which I hadn't considered.
The sun isn't a point source.

This is something to think about when observing solar outage times?
I wondered if any member knew the 'width' of the sun from our point of view.

Having Googled it, I see that it is 0.5 degrees which means it (limb from limb) takes 2 minutes to pass the 'point source' 
of Eutelsat 10A?
Or rather the satellite and Earth takes that time to 'move across' the sun's position.
And we have to allow, of course, for the beamwidth of our antenna as we know.

Regards,
John.



 


Re: Gibertini OP150S Satellite Dish

geojohnt@...
 

Peter,

OK, right, understood.

Mmmm, my 1 m EUMETCast dish is conveniently tucked right into the corner on the patio where it is so easy  to work on, but owing to my neighbours ever growing fir tree 'in front' of the dish, it is now right up against the kitchen wall.
I get a good TP 1 signal with it but keep wondering about moving it S a bit along the kitchen wall but 
a) the LNB arm would stick out into the middle of the patio and b) there is always "if it ain't broke, don't 
try to fix it".

But sooner or later .....

Regards,
John.

++++++++++++++++++++ 


-----Original Message-----
From: diogenes1 via Groups.Io <diogenes1@...>
To: Msg 1 <MSG-1@groups.io>
Sent: Sun, 1 Mar 2020 9:48
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Gibertini OP150S Satellite Dish


John, I presently use a 1.2m dish for Eumetcast which in its current location works fine.However I had hopes of improving the signal level with the larger dish but its size limits me as to where it can be mounted and I cannot just remove the 1.2 and replace it with the 1.5. When you plan something you think you have all angles covered but it is only in the execution that what you have overlooked is revealed.
Regards, Peter

Feb 29, 2020, 14:57 by geojohnt@...:
Peter,

Just a thought.
Does this mean that you have been unable to receive EUMETCast from Eutelsat 10A?
Or, that you are giving up the hobby?

10A from your location should be about 28 - 29 degrees elevation - are the hills higher than that, or how close?

A 1.5 m dish requires (very) accurate alignment and up a pole isn't easy.

Regards,
John.




Re: Realtime co-lin outage map for your location.

geojohnt@...
 

David, 

Thanks again.

Ah, I hadn't thought about the sun not being a point source - actually it is rather large compared 
to the 'pin point' satellite it passes - and takes time from limb to limb to pass the satellite 
from our point of view.
I'm sure someone on the group will be able to say how long it takes for the sun, limb to limb, to 
pass the satellite.

And as you say, dish surface accuracy is another factor.

And I still (possibly) have the 'fir tree effect?'
Though the shadow of the western edge and bulk of fir tree - which is higher than the elevation of 
10A - is just, completely clear of my dish, 2 degrees before solar crossing of the dish. 

Today was my closest separation day - the sun was directly behind 10A, it appears, in a 
line running through the English Channel, according to the satellite-calculation map.
Yesterday it was through southern Scotland.

Oh, BTW, after my outage today my SNR went up 0.3 dB - from the usual and earlier level from 
around 11:38 to around 12:00.
This was also 'seen' by several stations on your EUMETCast reporting page graphs:
Huizen, Lodz, Naila, Wienerwald.

????

Regards,
John.


===============================

John,

Physically it seems that the dish will give a narrower beam in azimuth than 
elevation, but I haven't checked that.

The predictions are given as angular separation, for a nominal -3 dB down 
from the dish pointing axis.  No consideration of actual signal level.  You 
will find some degradation before and after those times as the dish etc. 
isn't perfect, and the sun isn't a point source.


Cheers,
David
-- 
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv

+++++++++++++++++++++++++






Re: EumetCast Software Problem

samu120497@...
 

David, thank you!!!

At the same time, I've solved two problem: first eToken because the usb was plugged-in bad. Second the SDD was set to sleep after 2 hours... Actually no other problem... Very thanks for your help.

Have a nice evening and a nice week. 

Best reguards
Samuele


Re: EumetCast Software Problem

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Sorry David... In attachment I sent the log file of last day and this morning.
==========================================

Open the log file with e.g. Notepad and search for the word "start". You will see that the software restarted several times due to a failure to communicate with the eToken. Perhaps your eToken isn't connected properly, perhaps it's not perfectly seated in the USB socket, perhaps you have changed the socket from when it was installed. You can also search for errors with the string"ERR:".

Check the eToken.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: EumetCast Software Problem

samu120497@...
 

On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 02:50 AM, David J Taylor wrote:
When I said logs, I meant the TelliCast log files, not the Windows logs.

Anyway, for the moment, "If it works, leaveit!".

Cheers,
Sorry David... In attachment I sent the log file of last day and this morning.


Re: EumetCast Software Problem

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

From: samu120497@gmail.com

In Events, I see that... Could the problem arise from this?

Meanwhile, I started the software as an administrator and in compatible mode "Windows7". So far, I haven't had any problems.
================================================

Sorry, but I'd need the event number and a description in English! You should not need to run TelliCast as administrator if it has been installed /outside/ the C:\Program Files\ tree (or equivalent).

When I said logs, I meant the TelliCast log files, not the Windows logs.

Anyway, for the moment, "If it works, leaveit!".

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: Gibertini OP150S Satellite Dish

diogenes1@...
 


John, I presently use a 1.2m dish for Eumetcast which in its current location works fine.However I had hopes of improving the signal level with the larger dish but its size limits me as to where it can be mounted and I cannot just remove the 1.2 and replace it with the 1.5. When you plan something you think you have all angles covered but it is only in the execution that what you have overlooked is revealed.
Regards, Peter

Feb 29, 2020, 14:57 by geojohnt@...:

Peter,

Just a thought.
Does this mean that you have been unable to receive EUMETCast from Eutelsat 10A?
Or, that you are giving up the hobby?

10A from your location should be about 28 - 29 degrees elevation - are the hills higher than that, or how close?

A 1.5 m dish requires (very) accurate alignment and up a pole isn't easy.

Regards,
John.




Re: EumetCast Software Problem

samu120497@...
 



In Events, I see that... Could the problem arise from this?

Meanwhile, I started the software as an administrator and in compatible mode "Windows7". So far, I haven't had any problems. 


Re: EumetCast Software Problem

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Hello everyone

Before you read the message, sorry for my horrible English. I hope you can help me with the following problem:

I have my PC that receive the MSG image. The PC mount two SSD: one for OS and Tellicast/EUMETCAST software, one for the archive image "converted" with the Taylor's Software.
Last week, the second SSD is dead. Fortunately I had a backup HDD but in this days the EUMETCAST software gave me some big problems:

Automatically, without my command, the software open a lot of tc-cast client and in some case the computer crash! However, if I move the mouse on the icon, SURPRISE! Remains one icon but in limited time the problem it shows up again, and again...

A lot of segment lose with this problem.

I want to specify that the program was reinstalled after the SSD broke... Can anybody help me to solve this problem? Thanks.

Samuele
====================================

Samuele,

I recall that you can get two icons when the TelliCast software has crashed for some reason, and as soon as you move the mouse over the icons one of them disappears. Look in the TelliCast log files for any error message. Perhaps a directory name has changed, or a RAMdisk is now missing?

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


EumetCast Software Problem

samu120497@...
 

Hello everyone

Before you read the message, sorry for my horrible English.
I hope you can help me with the following problem:

I have my PC that receive the MSG image. The PC mount two SSD: one for OS and Tellicast/EUMETCAST software, one for the archive image "converted" with the Taylor's Software.
Last week, the second SSD is dead. Fortunately I had a backup HDD but in this days the EUMETCAST software gave me some big problems:

Automatically, without my command, the software open a lot of tc-cast client and in some case the computer crash! However, if I move the mouse on the icon, SURPRISE! Remains one icon but in limited time the problem it shows up again, and again...




A lot of segment lose with this problem.

I want to specify that the program was reinstalled after the SSD broke... Can anybody help me to solve this problem? Thanks.

Samuele


Re: Realtime co-lin outage map for your location.

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

David,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Right, my dish is supposed to be a 1 m dish.
It's maximum dimensions are 107 cm tall and 96.5 cm wide.
The reflective surface slightly less of course.

Which means the beamwidth is wider in the horizontal plane - slightly than the vertical?

The LNB is adjusted for max 'best focus' - SN - which is right up one end on the LNB throat
in the LNB holder.
The skew and dish alignment - 'best SN alignment.'

Today was my 'day before max outage.'
It looked from the Satellite-calculation map that today was/or around, your max outage day.

Iv'e had some thoughts, is WXtrack and satellite-calculations predicting for a prime focus dish
or an offset dish?
And, are they both predicting for total degradation in SN or just the 3 dB level?

Satellite-calculation displays -1 dB to -6 dB contours in the outage cone.
I watched the progress of the contours across my location and they pretty well matched my SN variation.
And, I think I'm right in saying that their 'outage time predictions' which were about the same as WXtrack
were for the 3 dB level degradation looking at the passing cone levels.

My 'drop from and rise to original signal level' (13.2 dB to 13.2 dB) was around 18 minutes.
And about 17 yesterday.
My peak outage SN was 7.0 dB.

Ah, just noticed on WXtrack - Solar Outage, First nulls beamwidth 3.73 degrees. ???
My drop in SN starts around the time the sun is 2 degrees from 10A and ends around the sun being 2 degrees past.

WXtrack and satellite-calculation almost agree on prediction times (today -0.28 degrees Closest):
Begin 11:21 Peak 11:28:11 End 11:34 - a period of 13 minutes.
My total outage period was 18 minutes.


I tried reducing the dish size a bit in WXtrack which changed the beamwidth but didn't alter the Begin
Peak, End, times much.

So, the question seems to be, are the predictions based on the 3 dB outage level and not the total outage?

Regards,
John.
===========================================

John,

Physically it seems that the dish will give a narrower beam in azimuth than elevation, but I haven't checked that.

The predictions are given as angular separation, for a nominal -3 dB down from the dish pointing axis. No consideration of actual signal level. You will find some degradation before and after those times as the dish etc. isn't perfect, and the sun isn't a point source.

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: Gibertini OP150S Satellite Dish

geojohnt@...
 

Peter,

Just a thought.
Does this mean that you have been unable to receive EUMETCast from Eutelsat 10A?
Or, that you are giving up the hobby?

10A from your location should be about 28 - 29 degrees elevation - are the hills higher than that, or how close?

A 1.5 m dish requires (very) accurate alignment and up a pole isn't easy.

Regards,
John.

+++++++++++++++++++


-----Original Message-----
From: diogenes1 via Groups.Io <diogenes1@...>
To: MSG-1 <MSG-1@groups.io>
Sent: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 11:48
Subject: [MSG-1] Gibertini OP150S Satellite Dish

Hello All,
I currently have this 1.5m dish mounted on a post in my garden (this is not a dish that you could mount on a house wall). After much trial & error over the last couple of years I have come to the conclusion that the dish would need to be mounted higher in order to clear the surrounding hills. For practical reasons I do not want to attempt this. Therefore I am offering it free* to any member who is willing to disassemble it and transport it to their location. You can see the dish in question at this website;
http://www.gibertini.it/index.php/en/antennas-uk/op-150-s 
Please take note of the dimensions of the dish for transport purposes.
* In return I would ask this person to take down two small dishes from the side of my bungalow, I have ladders for this purpose.
Regards, Peter, near Alston in Cumbria.


Re: Realtime co-lin outage map for your location.

geojohnt@...
 

David,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Right, my dish is supposed to be a 1 m dish.
It's maximum dimensions are 107 cm tall and 96.5 cm wide.
The reflective surface slightly less of course.

Which means the beamwidth is wider in the horizontal plane - slightly than the vertical?

The LNB is adjusted for max 'best focus' - SN - which is right up one end on the LNB throat 
in the LNB holder.
The skew and dish alignment - 'best SN alignment.'

Today was my 'day before max outage.'
It looked from the Satellite-calculation map that today was/or around, your max outage day.

Iv'e had some thoughts, is WXtrack and satellite-calculations predicting for a prime focus dish 
or an offset dish?
And, are they both predicting for total degradation in SN or just the 3 dB level?

Satellite-calculation displays -1 dB to  -6 dB contours in the outage cone.
I watched the progress of the contours across my location and they pretty well matched my SN variation.
And, I think I'm right in saying that their 'outage time predictions' which were about the same as WXtrack 
were for the 3 dB level degradation looking at the passing cone levels.

My 'drop from and rise to original signal level' (13.2 dB to 13.2 dB) was around 18 minutes.
And about 17 yesterday. 
My peak outage SN was 7.0 dB.

Ah, just noticed on WXtrack - Solar Outage, First nulls beamwidth 3.73 degrees. ???
My drop in SN starts around the time the sun is 2 degrees from 10A and ends around the sun being 2 degrees past.

WXtrack and satellite-calculation almost agree on prediction times (today -0.28 degrees Closest):
Begin 11:21 Peak 11:28:11 End 11:34 - a period of 13 minutes.
My total outage period was 18 minutes.


I tried reducing the dish size a bit in WXtrack which changed the beamwidth but didn't alter the Begin 
Peak, End, times much.

So, the question seems to be, are the predictions based on the 3 dB outage level and not the total outage?

Regards,
John.

++++++++++++++++++ 

 
 John,

If the outage is lasting longer than the prediction then perhaps the figures
you are entering into the calculation are not appropriate?  Dish size - for
example - where a dish bought as "1m" may have an active area somewhat less,
particularly if the 1m is actually the maximum axis of the ellipse rather
than the "average" dimension of the two axes.  There's also an efficiency
figure - your dish flatness and illumination by the LNB won't be 100%.
Again, what you mean by "co-lin begins" - is it the precise angular
separation, or a certain number of dB?  The dB figure will depend on the
exact shape of your dish's response, not to mention any diffraction from
nearby trees!

Just some thoughts....

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@...
Twitter: @gm8arv

++++++++++++++++++++

-----Original Message-----
From: David J Taylor via Groups.Io <david-taylor@...>
To: MSG-1 <MSG-1@groups.io>
Sent: Fri, 28 Feb 2020 7:39
Subject: Re: [MSG-1] Realtime co-lin outage map for your location.

David,

Yes of course, and I have always used this WXtrack function.

But, even with a 1 m dish I find that the co-lin begins before the 'begin' 
in the list noted and lasts
longer than the end prediction.
Especially if I recall correctly, around the max Closest.

I subtract 4 then 4 minutes from the predicted Peak - and likewise add 4 
minutes plus 4 minutes to
the Peak - giving me 4 degree beamwidth.
My drop in CN being longer (starting earlier and ending later) than the 
prediction.

I had a tweak of my dish yesterday after co-lin just to check the dish was - 
as far as possible - 'aligned.'
It appeared so.

It seems at times that tweaking can be counter productive?

Regards,
John
=============================================


Gibertini OP150S Satellite Dish

diogenes1@...
 

Hello All,
I currently have this 1.5m dish mounted on a post in my garden (this is not a dish that you could mount on a house wall). After much trial & error over the last couple of years I have come to the conclusion that the dish would need to be mounted higher in order to clear the surrounding hills. For practical reasons I do not want to attempt this. Therefore I am offering it free* to any member who is willing to disassemble it and transport it to their location. You can see the dish in question at this website;
http://www.gibertini.it/index.php/en/antennas-uk/op-150-s 
Please take note of the dimensions of the dish for transport purposes.
* In return I would ask this person to take down two small dishes from the side of my bungalow, I have ladders for this purpose.
Regards, Peter, near Alston in Cumbria.


Re: Big jump of SNR T1 at 07:05 UTC

George Sz
 

It looked like this later on.


Re: Big jump of SNR T1 at 07:05 UTC

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

Hi All

This is about the biggest jump in SNR I'v seen so far ...
Almost +1.5dB here. Also visible on David's page.

Best regards
Ernst ====================================

unfortunately, that was only a recovery from an earlier drop! TP1 only, TP2 possibly had a slight drop. Snow at Vienna/Aflenz, I guess:

https://twitter.com/gm8arv/status/1233264268658794496/photo/1

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Big jump of SNR T1 at 07:05 UTC

Ernst Lobsiger
 

Hi All

This is about the biggest jump in SNR I'v seen so far ...
Almost +1.5dB here. Also visible on David's page.

Best regards
Ernst


Re: Realtime co-lin outage map for your location.

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

David,

Yes of course, and I have always used this WXtrack function.

But, even with a 1 m dish I find that the co-lin begins before the 'begin' in the list noted and lasts
longer than the end prediction.
Especially if I recall correctly, around the max Closest.

I subtract 4 then 4 minutes from the predicted Peak - and likewise add 4 minutes plus 4 minutes to
the Peak - giving me 4 degree beamwidth.
My drop in CN being longer (starting earlier and ending later) than the prediction.

I had a tweak of my dish yesterday after co-lin just to check the dish was - as far as possible - 'aligned.'
It appeared so.

It seems at times that tweaking can be counter productive?

Regards,
John
=============================================

John,

If the outage is lasting longer than the prediction then perhaps the figures you are entering into the calculation are not appropriate? Dish size - for example - where a dish bought as "1m" may have an active area somewhat less, particularly if the 1m is actually the maximum axis of the ellipse rather than the "average" dimension of the two axes. There's also an efficiency figure - your dish flatness and illumination by the LNB won't be 100%. Again, what you mean by "co-lin begins" - is it the precise angular separation, or a certain number of dB? The dB figure will depend on the exact shape of your dish's response, not to mention any diffraction from nearby trees!

Just some thoughts....

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv


Re: Realtime co-lin outage map for your location.

David J Taylor GM8ARV 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 🇪🇺
 

David,

Yes of course, and I have always used this WXtrack function.

But, even with a 1 m dish I find that the co-lin begins before the 'begin' in the list noted and lasts
longer than the end prediction.
Especially if I recall correctly, around the max Closest.

I subtract 4 then 4 minutes from the predicted Peak - and likewise add 4 minutes plus 4 minutes to
the Peak - giving me 4 degree beamwidth.
My drop in CN being longer (starting earlier and ending later) than the prediction.

I had a tweak of my dish yesterday after co-lin just to check the dish was - as far as possible - 'aligned.'
It appeared so.

It seems at times that tweaking can be counter productive?

Regards,
John
==============================

Yes, John, I find it useful to compare the solar outage to the prediction as an estimate of the errors in azimuth and elevation I likely have. I wrote my Solar Outage SNR program to automatically plot the data for later analysis.

https://www.satsignal.eu/software/beta.htm

Attached is one I made earlier....

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv

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