Topics

The gauge question ...

sawdustoz <pevans@...>
 

Hi All,

Perhaps this group might like to consider light railways with a gauge
greater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring to mind are the
McIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse trams of the Wombat
Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the David Mitchell
firewood tram (3-ft 6-in and, later, standard gauge). In addition,
there were heaps of very traditional "light railways" with a gauge of 3-
ft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of the Powelltown line.

Cheers,
PeterE.

Colin Harvey
 

Mr Evans

What evidence to you have that David Mitchell's firewood tram was 3ft
6in gauge?

Colin

--- In LRRSA@..., "sawdustoz" <pevans@s...> wrote:

Hi All,

Perhaps this group might like to consider light railways with a gauge
greater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring to mind are the
McIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse trams of the Wombat
Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the David Mitchell
firewood tram (3-ft 6-in and, later, standard gauge). In addition,
there were heaps of very traditional "light railways" with a gauge of
3-
ft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of the Powelltown
line.

Cheers,
PeterE.

Peter Evans <pevans@...>
 

Colin,
 
I refer to colleague Rickard who measured a sleeper complete with dogspike holes beside the line (before it disappeared under McMansions and Starter Castles). I'm pretty sure that 3-ft 6-in gauge was the measurement obtained.
 
Cordially,
Sawdustoz.


From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...] On Behalf Of Colin Harvey
Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 1:55 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: The gauge question ...

Mr Evans

What evidence to you have that David Mitchell's firewood tram was 3ft
6in gauge?

Colin

--- In LRRSA@..., "sawdustoz" wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Perhaps this group might like to consider light railways with a gauge
> greater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring to mind are the
> McIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse trams of the Wombat
> Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the David Mitchell
> firewood tram (3-ft 6-in and, later, standard gauge). In addition,
> there were heaps of very traditional "light railways" with a gauge of
3-
> ft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of the Powelltown
line.
>
> Cheers,
> PeterE.
>




BLI BLI <alcogoodwin@...>
 

Hi Peter,
The front page may require a rewording I
think. I just threw it together in a hurry this
morning.
Such operations would of course be considered in
topic. I tend to consider logging railways to be an
industrial operation and thus fit into #1 on the front
page. This may indeed be a wrong decision on my part.
The main reason for having the 3ft6 in #2 was to
avoid items like Queensland Rail which isn't within
the scope of Light Railways.
I pretty much use Light Railways as a guide to
topics covered with a small diversion in the inclusion
of modelling of industrial topics.

Anyway welcome to the group guys, it is great to
have you here.

Regards
Brad

--- sawdustoz <pevans@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Perhaps this group might like to consider light
railways with a gauge
greater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring
to mind are the
McIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse
trams of the Wombat
Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the
David Mitchell
firewood tram (3-ft 6-in and, later, standard
gauge). In addition,
there were heaps of very traditional "light
railways" with a gauge of 3-
ft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of
the Powelltown line.

Cheers,
PeterE.





#### LocoShed Australasia Website ####
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** Australian Industrial & Preserved Railways.
** Railways of the Philippines and South East Asia
** LocoShed Express in 'Railway Digest'
** Asst editor: Asia-Rail magazine.

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Colin Harvey
 

Peter

I have no doubt there was a 3ft 6in gauge sleeper, but was it from
the firewood line or one of the overburden tramways? I suspect the
latter is more likely. Not that this precludes the firewood tram
from being 3ft 6in gauge, it's just not sufficient evidence in my
opinion.

Humbly
Colin



--- In LRRSA@..., "Peter Evans" <pevans@s...> wrote:

Colin,

I refer to colleague Rickard who measured a sleeper complete with
dogspike
holes beside the line (before it disappeared under McMansions and
Starter
Castles). I'm pretty sure that 3-ft 6-in gauge was the measurement
obtained.

Cordially,
Sawdustoz.

_____

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...] On
Behalf
Of Colin Harvey
Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 1:55 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: The gauge question ...


Mr Evans

What evidence to you have that David Mitchell's firewood tram was
3ft
6in gauge?

Colin

--- In LRRSA@..., "sawdustoz" <pevans@s...> wrote:

Hi All,

Perhaps this group might like to consider light railways with a
gauge
greater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring to mind are
the
McIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse trams of the
Wombat
Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the David Mitchell
firewood tram (3-ft 6-in and, later, standard gauge). In
addition,
there were heaps of very traditional "light railways" with a
gauge of
3-
ft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of the
Powelltown
line.

Cheers,
PeterE.

bll_hnks
 

Gentlemen,

It's good to see the discussions have gotten off to a contentious
start. May they all be in the right spirit.

Hooroo,

Bill Hanks
--- In LRRSA@..., "Peter Evans" <pevans@s...> wrote:

Colin,

I refer to colleague Rickard who measured a sleeper complete with
dogspike
holes beside the line (before it disappeared under McMansions and
Starter
Castles). I'm pretty sure that 3-ft 6-in gauge was the measurement
obtained.

Cordially,
Sawdustoz.

_____

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
On Behalf
Of Colin Harvey
Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 1:55 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: The gauge question ...


Mr Evans

What evidence to you have that David Mitchell's firewood tram was
3ft
6in gauge?

Colin

--- In LRRSA@..., "sawdustoz" <pevans@s...> wrote:

Hi All,

Perhaps this group might like to consider light railways with a
gauge
greater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring to mind are
the
McIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse trams of the
Wombat
Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the David Mitchell
firewood tram (3-ft 6-in and, later, standard gauge). In
addition,
there were heaps of very traditional "light railways" with a
gauge of
3-
ft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of the
Powelltown
line.

Cheers,
PeterE.

Peter Evans <pevans@...>
 

Dear Humble Colin,
 
I also seem to recall some photographic scaling going on to determine the gauge of the wierd geared steam beastie which as believed to be the first locomotive used on the line. Did this not indicate a gauge substantially less than Standard?
 
Respectfully
Sawdustoz. 


From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...] On Behalf Of Colin Harvey
Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 2:22 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: The gauge question ...

Peter

I have no doubt there was a 3ft 6in gauge sleeper, but was it from
the firewood line or one of the overburden tramways?  I suspect the
latter is more likely.  Not that this precludes the firewood tram
from being 3ft 6in gauge, it's just not sufficient evidence in my
opinion.

Humbly
Colin



--- In LRRSA@..., "Peter Evans" wrote:
>
> Colin,

> I refer to colleague Rickard who measured a sleeper complete with
dogspike
> holes beside the line (before it disappeared under McMansions and
Starter
> Castles). I'm pretty sure that 3-ft 6-in gauge was the measurement
obtained.

> Cordially,
> Sawdustoz.
>
>   _____ 
>
> From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...] On
Behalf
> Of Colin Harvey
> Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 1:55 PM
> To: LRRSA@...
> Subject: [LRRSA] Re: The gauge question ...
>
>
> Mr Evans
>
> What evidence to you have that David Mitchell's firewood tram was
3ft
> 6in gauge?
>
> Colin
>
> --- In LRRSA@..., "sawdustoz" wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Perhaps this group might like to consider light railways with a
gauge
> > greater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring to mind are
the
> > McIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse trams of the
Wombat
> > Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the David Mitchell
> > firewood tram (3-ft 6-in and, later, standard gauge). In
addition,
> > there were heaps of very traditional "light railways" with a
gauge of
> 3-
> > ft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of the
Powelltown
> line.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > PeterE.
> >
>





Peter Evans <pevans@...>
 

Thanks Brad,
 
Point taken. I think this group is an excellent idea and congratulations on getting it up and running.
 
Cheers,
PeterE.


From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...] On Behalf Of BLI BLI
Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 2:22 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] The gauge question ...

Hi Peter,
         The front page may require a rewording I
think. I just threw it together in a hurry this
morning.
  Such operations would of course be considered in
topic. I tend to consider logging railways to be an
industrial operation and thus fit into #1 on the front
page. This may indeed be a wrong decision on my part.
  The main reason for having the 3ft6 in #2 was to
avoid items like Queensland Rail which isn't within
the scope of Light Railways.
  I pretty much use Light Railways as a guide to
topics covered with a small diversion in the inclusion
of modelling of industrial topics.

  Anyway welcome to the group guys, it is great to
have you here.

Regards
Brad

--- sawdustoz wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Perhaps this group might like to consider light
> railways with a gauge
> greater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring
> to mind are the
> McIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse
> trams of the Wombat
> Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the
> David Mitchell
> firewood tram (3-ft 6-in and, later, standard
> gauge). In addition,
> there were heaps of very traditional "light
> railways" with a gauge of 3-
> ft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of
> the Powelltown line.
>
> Cheers,
> PeterE.
>
>
>
>
>


#### LocoShed Australasia Website ####
      http://www.geocities.com/steelhaven_ee/LocoShed.html
   ** Australian Industrial & Preserved Railways.
   ** Railways of the Philippines and South East Asia
   ** LocoShed Express in 'Railway Digest'
   ** Asst editor: Asia-Rail magazine.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

Colin Harvey
 

Peter (I've run out of salutations)

Did this not indicate a gauge substantially less than Standard?
Very suggestive of a gauge less than standard...but it could be metre
like Hartley Vale!

Colin


--- In LRRSA@..., "Peter Evans" <pevans@s...> wrote:

Dear Humble Colin,

I also seem to recall some photographic scaling going on to
determine the
gauge of the wierd geared steam beastie which as believed to be the
first
locomotive used on the line. Did this not indicate a gauge
substantially
less than Standard?

Respectfully
Sawdustoz.

_____

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...] On
Behalf
Of Colin Harvey
Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 2:22 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: The gauge question ...


Peter

I have no doubt there was a 3ft 6in gauge sleeper, but was it from
the firewood line or one of the overburden tramways? I suspect the
latter is more likely. Not that this precludes the firewood tram
from being 3ft 6in gauge, it's just not sufficient evidence in my
opinion.

Humbly
Colin



--- In LRRSA@..., "Peter Evans" <pevans@s...> wrote:

Colin,

I refer to colleague Rickard who measured a sleeper complete with
dogspike
holes beside the line (before it disappeared under McMansions and
Starter
Castles). I'm pretty sure that 3-ft 6-in gauge was the
measurement
obtained.

Cordially,
Sawdustoz.

_____

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
On
Behalf
Of Colin Harvey
Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 1:55 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: The gauge question ...


Mr Evans

What evidence to you have that David Mitchell's firewood tram was
3ft
6in gauge?

Colin

--- In LRRSA@..., "sawdustoz" <pevans@s...> wrote:

Hi All,

Perhaps this group might like to consider light railways with a
gauge
greater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring to mind are
the
McIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse trams of the
Wombat
Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the David
Mitchell
firewood tram (3-ft 6-in and, later, standard gauge). In
addition,
there were heaps of very traditional "light railways" with a
gauge of
3-
ft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of the
Powelltown
line.

Cheers,
PeterE.

Frank Stamford
 

When the LRRSA changed its name from Victorian Light Railway Research Society to Light Railway Research Society of Australia in 1968 (only 36 years ago) the coverage was intended to be:

(i) Any Australian railway or tramway with a gauge of less than 3 ft 6 in

(ii) Any Australian railway or tramway with a gauge of 3 ft 6 in or more which was not owned by the state government railways or the Commonwealth Railways.

This definition included city passenger carrying tramways, but these were largely (and deliberately) ignored because they were already well looked after by another organisation.

This definition was designed to include operations like the Emu Bay Railway, Kerang - Koondrook Shire Tramway, and the Queensland Shire Tramways.

I don't think we have ever officially changed from these definitions, although they have become more complicated to define since most of the operations in item (ii) above are now privatised.

I think if we changed our definition of "light railway" to the extent that it excluded operations like the 3 ft 6 in gauge Aramac and Beaudesert Shire Tramways, and the 5 ft 3 in gauge Koondrook Shire Tramway, we would be narrowing our focus too far, since they were all weird, poverty-stricken and eccentric operations, and surely these are some of the essential features of the traditional "light railway"!

Regards,

Frank

At 02:34 PM 15/08/2006, you wrote:
Thanks Brad,

Point taken. I think this group is an excellent idea and congratulations on getting it up and running.

Cheers,
PeterE.


----------
From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...] On Behalf Of BLI BLI
Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 2:22 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] The gauge question ...

Hi Peter,
The front page may require a rewording I
think. I just threw it together in a hurry this
morning.
Such operations would of course be considered in
topic. I tend to consider logging railways to be an
industrial operation and thus fit into #1 on the front
page. This may indeed be a wrong decision on my part.
The main reason for having the 3ft6 in #2 was to
avoid items like Queensland Rail which isn't within
the scope of Light Railways.
I pretty much use Light Railways as a guide to
topics covered with a small diversion in the inclusion
of modelling of industrial topics.

Anyway welcome to the group guys, it is great to
have you here.

Regards
Brad

--- sawdustoz <pevans@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Perhaps this group might like to consider light
railways with a gauge
greater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring
to mind are the
McIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse
trams of the Wombat
Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the
David Mitchell
firewood tram (3-ft 6-in and, later, standard
gauge). In addition,
there were heaps of very traditional "light
railways" with a gauge of 3-
ft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of
the Powelltown line.

Cheers,
PeterE.