Topics

: New Facebook Group: Light Railways of Australia

Philip G Graham
 

I hope that similar information will continue to be published on this Group website for as long as is possible, because I am one of the "old fogies" who is distrustful of F....bk. Mind you, I guess e-Mail through Google, Yahoo and etc is not that much better?

-PGG-

Eddie Oliver
 

On 14.09.2017 12:09, philip.graham567@... [LRRSA] wrote:
I hope that similar information will continue to be published on this
Group website for as long as is possible, because I am one of the "old
fogies" who is distrustful of F....bk.
Hear, hear. Distrustful for a myriad of very good reasons.

Frank Stamford
 

Hello Philip,

On 14/09/2017 12:09 PM, philip.graham567@... [LRRSA] wrote:

I hope that similar information will continue to be published on this Group website for as long as is possible, because I am one of the "old fogies" who is distrustful of F....bk. Mind you, I guess e-Mail through Google, Yahoo and etc is not that much better?

-PGG-

------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Yahoo Group will remain operational for as long as its members keep using it, or for as long as Yahoo retains their Groups in operation.

But that does not mean that everything that is published on the Facebook Group will be repeated here. That would require an unreasonable amount of work on someone's part.

There are many Facebook Groups which are very well managed, and which perform admirably. A lot of them are history groups. Through those Groups a lot of newly found historic photographs have turned up and have been identified.

It is intended that Light Railways of Australia will be one of the well managed Groups, just as this Yahoo Group has been well managed.

From what I have seen, I think it is possible to keep undesirable posts (such as spam) out of a Facebook Group more easily than it is with Yahoo Groups. Yes - you can easily point to Facebook Groups which are undesirable, but they are undesirable because of the way they are managed.

In any case you can look at the Light Railways in Australia Facebook Group without joining Facebook by going to this website:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/LightRailwaysAustralia/

Going to that website is not harmful, but there are some beautiful photographs there! Not a lot at this stage, but bear in mind the Group has only been Public for about four hours, but it already has about 62 members.

Regards,
Frank



<https://www.facebook.com/groups/LightRailwaysAustralia/>

Colin Harvey
 

>In any case you can look at the Light Railways in Australia Facebook Group without joining Facebook by going to this website:
No you can't.

Colin

John Dennis
 

Correct, you need to have a facebook account to visit the group, but you do not need to be a group member to read the posts and enjoy the photos. You do need to be a group member in order to post. I'm not certain whether a facebook group can be made visible to people without a facebook account.

John

On 14 September 2017 at 16:20, harveycr@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

>In any case you can look at the Light Railways in Australia Facebook Group without joining Facebook by going to this website:
No you can't.


Colin


David Halfpenny
 


On 14 Sep 2017, at 07:45, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

Correct, you need to have a facebook account to visit the group, but you do not need to be a group member to read the posts and enjoy the photos. You do need to be a group member in order to post. I'm not certain whether a facebook group can be made visible to people without a facebook account.

Nor am I, but it’s possible to customise oneself a stripped-down Facebook account specifically for participating in Facebook Groups. A nickname, if you wish; no personal information; no ‘wall’ of person posts; no Messaging; no ‘Friends’. And (using add-on F.B.Purity), a plain, uncluttered page with NO ADVERTS.

I share all manner of very serious reservations about Facebook, personally, commercially and politically. 
So it’s well worth saying that Facebook Groups is a world away from ‘ordinary’ Facebook. That may sound strange given that it has the same ‘look and feel’, but it operates very differently indeed, through specific Membership rather than a vast intertwined Network of ‘Friends”, “Friends of Friends’. Yes, it’s still Swimming with Sharks, but better caged. 

Yahoo Groups is presently unsupported, is doing weird stuff, and is yet to gain the attention of its new owners, for good or ill.
If Yahoo goes under, our present Best Shot at an email group is 'Groups io’, designed and supported by the geezer who originated what became Yahoo Groups. 

David 1/2d
Admin for many Yahoo Groups which I still much prefer.

Stuart Livesey
 

Sorry to revisit a subject that's a few days old but I think that some of you guys need to understand the reality of the world today.

I've been working in online marketing for the last 20 years and I can tell all of you who are afraid of joining Facebook because they will invade your privacy that that bus has already gone and the idea that you have anything left to protect is delusional.

You've joined this list on Yahoo and guess what ... there will be a Yahoo cookie on your computer that is constantly sending back a stream of data to Yahoo.

You've searched on Google and that means that there's a Google cookie on your computer that is constantly sending back a stream of information about you to Google and they are using every little bit of that data to compile a very comprehensive view of you.

You use Woolworths or Coles loyalty cards when you make a purchase? Those guys now know more about you than you know about yourself.

Sure, Facebook is going to gather information about you but what is it going to collect that you haven't already given away?

The only thing that you are doing by refusing to join Facebook is cutting yourself off from the information that you're interested in and no one in marketing cares whether you join or not because they already know everything there is to know about you.

It's a fact of life right now. You're really not protecting anything.

Of course you don't have to believe me ... you can keep living in your dream world ... but you can't escape the facts. If you want to be online ... even just for email ... then you have already given up everything that's worth knowing about you.

Stuart

--
Total Website Management & CopyTextOnline
Making words and websites work for you
Hassle free total website management
http://www.totalwebsitemanagement.com.au
Phone: (07) 4194 2673
Mobile: 0438 655 110
(International +617 4194 2673)

Brad P
 

Hi Stuart,
               Fully agree on all points. There does seem more of a fear of Facebook, more so than other online forums, out there.
  Having owned (still do) many Yahoogroups and Facebook groups, I have noted a huge decline in the former, while the later have grown far beyond anything I could have dreamed of on Yahoogroups.
  The Yahoogroup search function seems to work better, but apart from that, I could not be happier with Facebook groups. I was one of those who avoided it in the early days, but in the eight years I have utilized it I can't say I have had any issues that I have not had elsewhere.
  I do have a wall. However, as has been said, you do not need to do as such to use the groups. A fake account can be set up (Facebook is cracking down on this now days) and groups joined.
  It would be advisable to approach the group owner first. Most of us really police applications for signs that you are interested in the topic. New accounts are treated with some suspicion by anyone who cares who comes on.

  I have three groups relevant to the LRRSA. All being research special interest type groups.
  None have been an issue, all enjoy a slowly growing membership and attract some truly great content. A terrific research tool as well.

Regards
Brad 
  

On Sun, Sep 17, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Copy Text Online copytext@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

Sorry to revisit a subject that's a few days old but I think that some of you guys need to understand the reality of the world today.

I've been working in online marketing for the last 20 years and I can tell all of you who are afraid of joining Facebook because they will invade your privacy that that bus has already gone and the idea that you have anything left to protect is delusional.

You've joined this list on Yahoo and guess what ... there will be a Yahoo cookie on your computer that is constantly sending back a stream of data to Yahoo.

You've searched on Google and that means that there's a Google cookie on your computer that is constantly sending back a stream of information about you to Google and they are using every little bit of that data to compile a very comprehensive view of you.

You use Woolworths or Coles loyalty cards when you make a purchase? Those guys now know more about you than you know about yourself.

Sure, Facebook is going to gather information about you but what is it going to collect that you haven't already given away?

The only thing that you are doing by refusing to join Facebook is cutting yourself off from the information that you're interested in and no one in marketing cares whether you join or not because they already know everything there is to know about you.

It's a fact of life right now. You're really not protecting anything.

Of course you don't have to believe me ... you can keep living in your dream world ... but you can't escape the facts. If you want to be online ... even just for email ... then you have already given up everything that's worth knowing about you.

Stuart

--
Total Website Management & CopyTextOnline
Making words and websites work for you
Hassle free total website management
http://www.totalwebsitemanagement.com.au
Phone: (07) 4194 2673
Mobile: 0438 655 110
(International +617 4194 2673)




--

Philip G Graham
 

I was in IT for some years up to the early 2000s, so I do have some appreciation of cookies and the like, and hell yes, Google has my number already (so did Alta Vista and that didn't do them any good...) Anybody with my personal information as it stands now with me in retirement will have a very lean time trying to utilize it - I am one very uninteresting dude with no Loyalty cards!

I guess I just don't like the method of commercialization with some the App-type apps (click-based monetization) these days. I still like text-type text with proper grammar and neat readable presentation, but as you say I am probably "...cutting my nose off in spite of my face..." information-wise. I don't like any of the targeted feeds and/or adverts being directed at me without my consent - leave these well in the background please. I like the idea having the Group access for me in a very plain format (thanks D 1/2d), with items that I can switch on or off at will. K-I-S-S.

= = = = = = = = = = = = =

Back to on-message now. If anybody can detect if there are construction railways being used within the tunnels projects now progressing in Perth - Forrestfield-Airport Link; Melbourne - North-South Metro; Sydney - North-South Metro, could they please post affirmation here, please. At the moment this info is proving very difficult to determine.

-PGG-

David Halfpenny
 


On 17 Sep 2017, at 02:20, Copy Text Online copytext@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

Sure, Facebook is going to gather information about you but what is it going to collect that you haven't already given away?

Stuart,

While all you say is true, it’s only half the story. 

The other half is what ordinary people make of what we publish online.
My family and I have been “stalked” online. 
Stuff on our Facebook pages was used against us maliciously - and against our real-world friends and family.
No kidding: one series of incidents ended with a suicide triggered (rather than caused) by online images.

I first joined Facebook specifically to monitor the pages of local young-teen choirgirls (makes me sound dodgy already, doesn’t it?) who had got caught up in an epidemic of vile insults and sexual bullying that they were completely unequipped to manage on their own. Suicides were averted.

Dodgy? Well, when I was single, I openly used Facebook to ‘research’ women I liked the look of. Beach photos especially.
Totally innocent in my own view, but I concede in hindsight that girls could be freaked out by the very thought. One lady became a close friend yet deleted a whole lot of Facebook stuff she hadn’t realised was so ‘collectable’.

The cover story in my local newspaper is of a local Member of the UK Parliament raging against another MP’s presumed use of Facebook during an election. Although that’s certainly no fault of Facebook’s, nevertheless Parliament has been publicly degraded by its own elected Members.

So what routinely goes on on Facebook really can be exhausting, threatening, damaging and even life-threatening.


Of course you don't have to believe me .... you can keep living in your dream world ... but you can't escape the facts. If you want to be online ... even just for email ... then you have already given up everything that's worth knowing about you.

I agree with you, Stuart, that it’s futile and unnecessary to attempt to hide completely from the corporate online world, but I do counsel sensible precautions. 
While we can’t evade the security cameras when we venture to the sleazy end of town, at least we aren’t obliged to wear swimsuits there :-)

David 1/2d

John Dennis
 

David,

Whilst what you say is true, too, if somebody creates a facebook page for the sole purpose of joining a railway group, then surely there should be less concerns?  

John

On 17 September 2017 at 19:08, 'David Halfpenny (Yahoo 2)' david.halfpenny@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 


On 17 Sep 2017, at 02:20, Copy Text Online copytext@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

Sure, Facebook is going to gather information about you but what is it going to collect that you haven't already given away?

Stuart,

While all you say is true, it’s only half the story. 

The other half is what ordinary people make of what we publish online.
My family and I have been “stalked” online. 
Stuff on our Facebook pages was used against us maliciously - and against our real-world friends and family.
No kidding: one series of incidents ended with a suicide triggered (rather than caused) by online images.

I first joined Facebook specifically to monitor the pages of local young-teen choirgirls (makes me sound dodgy already, doesn’t it?) who had got caught up in an epidemic of vile insults and sexual bullying that they were completely unequipped to manage on their own. Suicides were averted.

Dodgy? Well, when I was single, I openly used Facebook to ‘research’ women I liked the look of. Beach photos especially.
Totally innocent in my own view, but I concede in hindsight that girls could be freaked out by the very thought. One lady became a close friend yet deleted a whole lot of Facebook stuff she hadn’t realised was so ‘collectable’.

The cover story in my local newspaper is of a local Member of the UK Parliament raging against another MP’s presumed use of Facebook during an election. Although that’s certainly no fault of Facebook’s, nevertheless Parliament has been publicly degraded by its own elected Members.

So what routinely goes on on Facebook really can be exhausting, threatening, damaging and even life-threatening.


Of course you don't have to believe me .... you can keep living in your dream world ... but you can't escape the facts. If you want to be online ... even just for email ... then you have already given up everything that's worth knowing about you.

I agree with you, Stuart, that it’s futile and unnecessary to attempt to hide completely from the corporate online world, but I do counsel sensible precautions. 
While we can’t evade the security cameras when we venture to the sleazy end of town, at least we aren’t obliged to wear swimsuits there :-)

David 1/2d


Kevin Sewell
 


On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 at 8:38 PM, John Dennis wrote:
 

David,

Whilst what you say is true, too, if somebody creates a facebook page for the sole purpose of joining a railway group, then surely there should be less concerns?  

John

Don't know about that. I was lucky enough to go to Wings Over Illawara this year with a mate. I was astounded at the screaming foamer  plane spotters. Mentioning to my mate how odd (some downright weird and spooky) they were, he gave me a disbelieving look and said, "do you not realise that's how strange you train-spotters are to the rest of society???" It was an eye-opener for me. I don't consider us strange, but clearly lots of people do. 


--
Don't just answer the question, question the answer.

Eddie Oliver
 

Social media = antisocial media.

John Dennis
 

I just realised I should have said "somebody creates a facebook account", not a page. I spent two years doing nothing at al with facebook other than read groups - until we went on a trip and it was considered an easy way to keep in touch with people. Now I reckon I must have, ohh, 15 facebook friends. 

John

On 17 September 2017 at 21:04, Kevin Sewell kevinrsewell@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 


On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 at 8:38 PM, John Dennis wrote:
 

David,

Whilst what you say is true, too, if somebody creates a facebook page for the sole purpose of joining a railway group, then surely there should be less concerns?  

John

Don't know about that. I was lucky enough to go to Wings Over Illawara this year with a mate. I was astounded at the screaming foamer  plane spotters. Mentioning to my mate how odd (some downright weird and spooky) they were, he gave me a disbelieving look and said, "do you not realise that's how strange you train-spotters are to the rest of society???" It was an eye-opener for me. I don't consider us strange, but clearly lots of people do. 


--
Don't just answer the question, question the answer.


Geoffrey Hansen
 

I do think the Facebook groups are good for photos but I do feel uneasy about sharing my railway interest with my non railway/transport friends hence I prefer to post in closed groups as I like to only share my hobby with people of the same interest. I suppose I'm conscious of my image and don't want to bore my non transport friends especially as there seem to many groups that cover very similar topics.

Regards
Geoffrey


From: LRRSA@... on behalf of Kevin Sewell kevinrsewell@... [LRRSA]
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2017 9:04:06 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] : New Facebook Group: Light Railways of Australia
 
 


On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 at 8:38 PM, John Dennis wrote:
 

David,

Whilst what you say is true, too, if somebody creates a facebook page for the sole purpose of joining a railway group, then surely there should be less concerns?  

John

Don't know about that. I was lucky enough to go to Wings Over Illawara this year with a mate. I was astounded at the screaming foamer  plane spotters. Mentioning to my mate how odd (some downright weird and spooky) they were, he gave me a disbelieving look and said, "do you not realise that's how strange you train-spotters are to the rest of society???" It was an eye-opener for me. I don't consider us strange, but clearly lots of people do. 


--
Don't just answer the question, question the answer.

John Dennis
 

I post to open groups like ours, and my friends do not receive any notifications. I "like" photos and make comments on posts in open groups and my friends do not see any notifications. (My wife is a facebook friend so I can monitor these things)  

If you "unfollow" the group then you will get no notifications either, which is the way I have my groups set up. I have to explicitly go to a group to see activity. However if you do not unfollow a group and then "like" or comment on a post in your timeline then I guess it goes to all your friends.

John


On 17 September 2017 at 21:37, Geoffrey gnhansen29@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

I do think the Facebook groups are good for photos but I do feel uneasy about sharing my railway interest with my non railway/transport friends hence I prefer to post in closed groups as I like to only share my hobby with people of the same interest. I suppose I'm conscious of my image and don't want to bore my non transport friends especially as there seem to many groups that cover very similar topics.

Regards
Geoffrey

From: LRRSA@... <LRRSA@...> on behalf of Kevin Sewell kevinrsewell@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2017 9:04:06 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] : New Facebook Group: Light Railways of Australia
 
 


On Sun, 17 Sep 2017 at 8:38 PM, John Dennis wrote:
 

David,

Whilst what you say is true, too, if somebody creates a facebook page for the sole purpose of joining a railway group, then surely there should be less concerns?  

John

Don't know about that. I was lucky enough to go to Wings Over Illawara this year with a mate. I was astounded at the screaming foamer  plane spotters. Mentioning to my mate how odd (some downright weird and spooky) they were, he gave me a disbelieving look and said, "do you not realise that's how strange you train-spotters are to the rest of society???" It was an eye-opener for me. I don't consider us strange, but clearly lots of people do. 


--
Don't just answer the question, question the answer.


David Halfpenny
 


On 17 Sep 2017, at 11:38, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

David,

Whilst what you say is true, too, if somebody creates a facebook page for the sole purpose of joining a railway group, then surely there should be less concerns?  


Yes John, that’s what I’m meaning. A great deal, though not zero.

A simple no-data / no-posts / no-‘friends’ Facebook account insulates you from almost all the social nastiness that Facebook haters hate.
Yet spooks, cops, ex-wives and nasty neighbours can still feign similar interests and joining the same groups, though it’s more trouble for them.
And that doesn’t apply just to Facebook: I run one Yahoo Group that had to be seriously locked down when the founder's poor wife became dangerously psychotic, and another specifically for the hapless Carers of psychotics.

Such a stripped-down account will still tell Trump (and Putin) stuff about you that you don’t even know yourself.
But so does buying stuff online, or merely carrying a smartphone. Get over it - or go live off-grid in the woods.
It’s good to secure your home, but you’ll never keep Special Forces out of it. 

David

John

On 17 September 2017 at 19:08, 'David Halfpenny (Yahoo 2)' david.halfpenny@...[LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:


On 17 Sep 2017, at 02:20, Copy Text Online copytext@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

Sure, Facebook is going to gather information about you but what is it going to collect that you haven't already given away?

Stuart,

While all you say is true, it’s only half the story. 

The other half is what ordinary people make of what we publish online.
My family and I have been “stalked” online. 
Stuff on our Facebook pages was used against us maliciously - and against our real-world friends and family.
No kidding: one series of incidents ended with a suicide triggered (rather than caused) by online images.

I first joined Facebook specifically to monitor the pages of local young-teen choirgirls (makes me sound dodgy already, doesn’t it?) who had got caught up in an epidemic of vile insults and sexual bullying that they were completely unequipped to manage on their own. Suicides were averted.

Dodgy? Well, when I was single, I openly used Facebook to ‘research’ women I liked the look of. Beach photos especially.
Totally innocent in my own view, but I concede in hindsight that girls could be freaked out by the very thought. One lady became a close friend yet deleted a whole lot of Facebook stuff she hadn’t realised was so ‘collectable’.

The cover story in my local newspaper is of a local Member of the UK Parliament raging against another MP’s presumed use of Facebook during an election. Although that’s certainly no fault of Facebook’s, nevertheless Parliament has been publicly degraded by its own elected Members.

So what routinely goes on on Facebook really can be exhausting, threatening, damaging and even life-threatening.


Of course you don't have to believe me .... you can keep living in your dream world .... but you can't escape the facts. If you want to be online ... even just for email ... then you have already given up everything that's worth knowing about you.

I agree with you, Stuart, that it’s futile and unnecessary to attempt to hide completely from the corporate online world, but I do counsel sensible precautions. 
While we can’t evade the security cameras when we venture to the sleazy end of town, at least we aren’t obliged to wear swimsuits there :-)

David 1/2d






Petan
 

Railpage is interesting as obviously it is not a closed groups with people of the same interest as it is viewable by anyone without signing in. The adds you see on Railpage are on your computer only and are determined by what the internet companies (cookies etc) have found out about you. One funny example was one person bitterly complained on the public Railpage forums about porn adds on Railpage and claimed that he was a family value man and objected to porn adds on Railpage!! Eventually someone told him that he had just told the world at large that he watches internet porn as the Railpage adds on his computer were determined by the cookies on his own computer!!! Most likely that person deleted his revealing post.

 

This use of cookies can be checked by visiting Railpage and cross checking the adds against what you have been researching lately. As a test, visit a few airline sites and pretend to book a ticket. Soon after the Railpage adds could well be about airline cheap deals!

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

John Dennis
 

Isn't Adblock Plus a marvellous add-in for Chrome. I never see ads on Railpage, nor on most other sites. Can't stop Facebook though. 

John

On 18 September 2017 at 10:16, 'Peter Cokley' yahoomail@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

Railpage is interesting as obviously it is not a closed groups with people of the same interest as it is viewable by anyone without signing in. The adds you see on Railpage are on your computer only and are determined by what the internet companies (cookies etc) have found out about you. One funny example was one person bitterly complained on the public Railpage forums about porn adds on Railpage and claimed that he was a family value man and objected to porn adds on Railpage!! Eventually someone told him that he had just told the world at large that he watches internet porn as the Railpage adds on his computer were determined by the cookies on his own computer!!! Most likely that person deleted his revealing post.

 

This use of cookies can be checked by visiting Railpage and cross checking the adds against what you have been researching lately. As a test, visit a few airline sites and pretend to book a ticket. Soon after the Railpage adds could well be about airline cheap deals!

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley


David Halfpenny
 


On 18 Sep 2017, at 01:38, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

Isn't Adblock Plus a marvellous add-in for Chrome. I never see ads on Railpage, nor on most other sites. Can't stop Facebook though. 

John,

Adblock and Adblock Plus are also available for other browsers too.
But are they ethical? I think so.

Although it’s often said we should accept ads because they "pay for the service", the underlying reality is that it’s actually purchases made from ads that pay for services. Since I never buy anything from an intrusive or distracting ad, nobody loses any actual money by me blocking those ads. On the other hand, I spend quite a lot of money from ads that are not distracting or intrusive.

Facebook is another matter, and the way to manage that is with FB Purity (Google it).
It’s not an all-or-nothing fix: you get to select what you see and what you don’t.

Here’s my clean and non-distracting LRSSA page, showing the FBP tab on the header bar:


Thank you Frank for the Group and the welcome.

I confess I much prefer Yahoo, but since I don’t know how much longer Yahoo Groups will last, I’m keeping Archives.

David 1/2d