LRRSA@groups.io | Horse line

Petan

#10058

Folks, horse lines seem to get an occasional mention over the years in various publications, including marked as such on parish maps and similar, as well in railway / tramway publications, suggesting it as either a national or international term, rather than just an individual state term.

Wonder if it means different things in different industries such as sugar compared to timber?

Wonder if it meant horse or tractor rather than light locomotive?

Wonder if its meaning has changed over the years, especially since light locomotives have been around?

Just one of those terms used in publications and the assumption is everyone understands the meaning in the same way?

Cheers

Peter Cokley

Luke Horniblow

#10059

Hey Peter,

Victoria Mill at Ingham has two Horse lines that still get used. When the Harvesting contractor comes to cut the sugar cane. The farmer uses a tractor to pull the empty bins down from the mill & take the fulls back to the mill for one horse line the other a loco drops the bins off at a certain point for the farmer to pick the empty bins up & drop the fulls back there. There was also one or two in the Mackay area & one in Mossman but not sure if they still get used.

Cheers Luke.

Show quoted text

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> on behalf of Petan <yahoomail@...>
Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2020 10:28 AM
To: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io>
Subject: [LRRSA] Horse line

Folks, horse lines seem to get an occasional mention over the years in various publications, including marked as such on parish maps and similar, as well in railway / tramway publications, suggesting it as either a national or international term, rather than just an individual state term.

Wonder if it means different things in different industries such as sugar compared to timber?

Wonder if it meant horse or tractor rather than light locomotive?

Wonder if its meaning has changed over the years, especially since light locomotives have been around?

Just one of those terms used in publications and the assumption is everyone understands the meaning in the same way?

Cheers

Peter Cokley

Petan

#10060

Thanks Luke!

Your context suggests ‘Horse Line’ is just another term for minor branch line? Does the loco work on the ‘horse line’ in your second example? If so, then the term horse line is not determined by type of motive power, which matches another suspicion I have?

Cheers

Peter Cokley

Show quoted text

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Horniblow
Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2020 1:14 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

Hey Peter,

Victoria Mill at Ingham has two Horse lines that still get used. When the Harvesting contractor comes to cut the sugar cane. The farmer uses a tractor to pull the empty bins down from the mill & take the fulls back to the mill for one horse line the other a loco drops the bins off at a certain point for the farmer to pick the empty bins up & drop the fulls back there. There was also one or two in the Mackay area & one in Mossman but not sure if they still get used.

Cheers Luke.

Eddie Oliver

#10061

All the 'horse lines' in my knowledge were at some stage worked by non-locomotive power, even though the terminology may have stuck (usually somewhat negatively, to imply some inferior infrastructure quality) when locomotive haulage was later introduced.

Show quoted text

On 19/04/2020 17:17, Petan wrote:

Thanks Luke!

Your context suggests ‘Horse Line’ is just another term for minor branch line? Does the loco work on the ‘horse line’ in your second example? If so, then the term horse line is not determined by type of motive power, motive which matches another suspicion I have?

Cheers

Peter Cokley

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Horniblow
Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2020 1:14 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

Hey Peter,

Victoria Mill at Ingham has two Horse lines that still get used. When the Harvesting contractor comes to cut the sugar cane. The farmer uses a tractor to pull the empty bins down from the mill & take the fulls back to the mill for one horse line the other a loco drops the bins off at a certain point for the farmer to pick the empty bins up & drop the fulls back there. There was also one or two in the Mackay area & one in Mossman but not sure if they still get used.

Cheers Luke.

Petan

#10062

Thanks Eddie!

Over the years I have also noticed some references to what you note as (usually somewhat negatively, to imply some inferior infrastructure quality), so glad you brought up that aspect! That was just an impression from the context in some articles over the years and can’t at the moment put a specific name to those articles.

Cheers

Peter Cokley

Show quoted text

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Eddie Oliver
Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2020 5:32 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

All the 'horse lines' in my knowledge were at some stage worked by non-locomotive power, even though the terminology may have stuck (usually somewhat negatively, to imply some inferior infrastructure quality) when locomotive haulage was later introduced.

On 19/04/2020 17:17, Petan wrote:

Thanks Luke!
Your context suggests ‘Horse Line’ is just another term for minor branch line? Does the loco work on the ‘horse line’ in your second example? If so, then the term horse line is not determined by type of motive power, motive which matches another suspicion I have?

Cheers
Peter Cokley

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Horniblow
Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2020 1:14 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

Hey Peter,
Victoria Mill at Ingham has two Horse lines that still get used. When the Harvesting contractor comes to cut the sugar cane. The farmer uses a tractor to pull the empty bins down from the mill & take the fulls back to the mill for one horse line the other a loco drops the bins off at a certain point for the farmer to pick the empty bins up & drop the fulls back there. There was also one or two in the Mackay area & one in Mossman but not sure if they still get used.

Cheers Luke.

Tom D

#10063

In the Mulgrave area, two horse lines off the Highleigh line come to
mind immediately.

Clarke's horse line is still worked by tractor. The curve off the main
line is a very tight radius. Bins will derail if pushed in, but
stretched out behind the tractor, the bins follow okay.  The corners
of the 6 tonne bins usually touch and 10 tonne bins are not allowed.

Thomason's horse line is the end of Thomason's branch beyond Sandy
creek.  Now that the Sandy creek bridge has been upgraded and the
light weight track relaid with 60 lb rail and concrete sleepers, all
locos can work the line.  But the name, Thomason's Horse Line,
remains.

   -   Tom  Porritt.

Show quoted text

On 4/19/20, Petan <yahoomail@petan.net> wrote:
Thanks Eddie!

Over the years I have also noticed some references to what you note as
(usually somewhat negatively, to imply some inferior infrastructure
quality), so glad you brought up that aspect! That was just an impression
from the context in some articles over the years and can't at the moment
put
a specific name to those articles.

Cheers

Peter Cokley

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Eddie Oliver
Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2020 5:32 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

All the 'horse lines' in my knowledge were at some stage worked by
non-locomotive power, even though the terminology may have stuck (usually
somewhat negatively, to imply some inferior infrastructure quality) when
locomotive haulage was later introduced.

On 19/04/2020 17:17, Petan wrote:

Thanks Luke!

Your context suggests 'Horse Line' is just another term for minor branch
line? Does the loco work on the 'horse line' in your second example? If so,
then the term horse line is not determined by type of motive power, motive
which matches another suspicion I have?

Cheers

Peter Cokley

From: LRRSA@groups.io <mailto:LRRSA@groups.io>   <mailto:LRRSA@groups.io>
<LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Horniblow
Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2020 1:14 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io <mailto:LRRSA@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

Hey Peter,

Victoria Mill at Ingham has two Horse lines that still get used. When the
Harvesting contractor comes to cut the sugar cane. The farmer uses a
tractor
to pull the empty bins down from the mill & take the fulls back to the mill
for one horse line the other a loco drops the bins off at a certain point
for the farmer to pick the empty bins up & drop the fulls back there. There
was also one or two in the Mackay area & one in Mossman but not sure if
they
still get used.

Cheers Luke.

  _____

Luke Horniblow

#10064

Tractor power is the only way the Bins can be hauled on the "Horse Lines" as the gauge of the line it to light for any Cane loco's to use them. Only 4 tonne bins can be used due to the curves in the line aswell. The two in Ingham, one is like a Branch Line as such, comes to an end with two lines so the Farmer can bring the empties down then take the fulls back to the mill gate. The other is just one line that comes to an end.

Cheers Luke.

Show quoted text

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> on behalf of Petan <yahoomail@...>
Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2020 5:17 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

Thanks Luke!

Your context suggests ‘Horse Line’ is just another term for minor branch line? Does the loco work on the ‘horse line’ in your second example? If so, then the term horse line is not determined by type of motive power, which matches another suspicion I have?

Cheers

Peter Cokley

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Horniblow
Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2020 1:14 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

Hey Peter,

Victoria Mill at Ingham has two Horse lines that still get used. When the Harvesting contractor comes to cut the sugar cane. The farmer uses a tractor to pull the empty bins down from the mill & take the fulls back to the mill for one horse line the other a loco drops the bins off at a certain point for the farmer to pick the empty bins up & drop the fulls back there. There was also one or two in the Mackay area & one in Mossman but not sure if they still get used.

Cheers Luke.

Corey Seaton

#10065

Hi Tom,

Where abouts are these two lines?

Thanks,

Corey

﻿On 19/4/20, 8:49 pm, "Tom D" <LRRSA@groups.io on behalf of jtd245@gmail.com> wrote:

    In the Mulgrave area, two horse lines off the Highleigh line come to
    mind immediately.

    Clarke's horse line is still worked by tractor. The curve off the main
    line is a very tight radius. Bins will derail if pushed in, but
    stretched out behind the tractor, the bins follow okay.  The corners
    of the 6 tonne bins usually touch and 10 tonne bins are not allowed.

    Thomason's horse line is the end of Thomason's branch beyond Sandy
    creek.  Now that the Sandy creek bridge has been upgraded and the
    light weight track relaid with 60 lb rail and concrete sleepers, all
    locos can work the line.  But the name, Thomason's Horse Line,
    remains.

       -   Tom  Porritt.

Show quoted text

On 4/19/20, Petan <yahoomail@petan.net> wrote:
    > Thanks Eddie!
    >
    >
    >
    > Over the years I have also noticed some references to what you note as
    > (usually somewhat negatively, to imply some inferior infrastructure
    > quality), so glad you brought up that aspect! That was just an impression
    > from the context in some articles over the years and can't at the moment
    > put
    > a specific name to those articles.
    >
    >
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > Peter Cokley
    >
    >
    >
    > From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Eddie Oliver
    > Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2020 5:32 PM
    > To: LRRSA@groups.io
    > Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line
    >
    >
    >
    > All the 'horse lines' in my knowledge were at some stage worked by
    > non-locomotive power, even though the terminology may have stuck (usually
    > somewhat negatively, to imply some inferior infrastructure quality) when
    > locomotive haulage was later introduced.
    >
    > On 19/04/2020 17:17, Petan wrote:
    >
    > Thanks Luke!
    >
    > Your context suggests 'Horse Line' is just another term for minor branch
    > line? Does the loco work on the 'horse line' in your second example? If so,
    > then the term horse line is not determined by type of motive power, motive
    > which matches another suspicion I have?
    >
    >
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > Peter Cokley
    >
    >
    >
    > From: LRRSA@groups.io <mailto:LRRSA@groups.io>   <mailto:LRRSA@groups.io>
    > <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Luke Horniblow
    > Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2020 1:14 PM
    > To: LRRSA@groups.io <mailto:LRRSA@groups.io>
    > Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line
    >
    >
    >
    > Hey Peter,
    >
    > Victoria Mill at Ingham has two Horse lines that still get used. When the
    > Harvesting contractor comes to cut the sugar cane. The farmer uses a
    > tractor
    > to pull the empty bins down from the mill & take the fulls back to the mill
    > for one horse line the other a loco drops the bins off at a certain point
    > for the farmer to pick the empty bins up & drop the fulls back there. There
    > was also one or two in the Mackay area & one in Mossman but not sure if
    > they
    > still get used.
    >
    >
    >
    > Cheers Luke.
    >
    >   _____
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > 
    >
    >

Tom D

#10066

Corey,
 Mulgave Mill is in Gordonvale, about 20 km south of Cairns, Qld.  The
Highleigh line is about 5 km east of the mill following the north side
of the Mulgrave river.   For reference, about 1 km south over the
Mulgrave river, is the little township of Aloomba.
 I have gps coordinates if you need the accuracy.
     -   Tom.

Corey Seaton

#10067

Hi Tom,

Those GPS coordinates would be great please; I live in Gordonvale.

CheeRs,

Corey

Show quoted text

On 19 Apr 2020, at 11:18 pm, Tom D <jtd245@gmail.com> wrote:

﻿   Corey,
Mulgave Mill is in Gordonvale, about 20 km south of Cairns, Qld.  The
Highleigh line is about 5 km east of the mill following the north side
of the Mulgrave river.   For reference, about 1 km south over the
Mulgrave river, is the little township of Aloomba.
I have gps coordinates if you need the accuracy.
    -   Tom.

John Browning

#10068

"Horse lines" seem to have been a particular feature of Homebush (later Racecourse) Mill in the Homebush area near Mackay. They were permanent lines of light track that enabled farmers to move trucks over fair distances and could be linked with the temporary portable lines that were laid into the harvesting paddocks. The mill would be responsible for delivering/collecting trucks to/from the commencement of the horse line and beyond that the responsibility would lie with the farmer. During the 1980s, some of these lines were being removed and this revealed that original 1880s Decauville track materials had been used in construction of at least some, including their distinctive point levers. This suggests that the lines had originally been laid by CSR. As far as I know some of these horse lines may still exist in the area, worked by farmers using tractors. There have been several home-built locomotives used on such lines at various mills, but details are understandably very sketchy.

Similar lines were also laid in many mill areas to enable farmers to bring cane to be loaded onto QR wagons at sidings using derricks. A few were laid by mills and some of these were locomotive-worked. Others were built by individual farmers, or groups of farmers.

As has been pointed out, at a number of mills today there are locomotive lines called "horse lines". These have been upgraded for locomotives at some point but have still retained their names.

John

Barry Sheffield

#10069

If these lines are worked by tractors, it would be great to see photos of this occurring. Does anyone have photos to share?

cheers,
Barry

Show quoted text

-----Original Message----- 
From: Corey Seaton via groups.io
Sent: 19 April, 2020 11:31 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

Hi Tom,

Those GPS coordinates would be great please; I live in Gordonvale.

CheeRs,

Corey
On 19 Apr 2020, at 11:18 pm, Tom D <jtd245@gmail.com> wrote:

﻿   Corey,
Mulgave Mill is in Gordonvale, about 20 km south of Cairns, Qld.  The
Highleigh line is about 5 km east of the mill following the north side
of the Mulgrave river.   For reference, about 1 km south over the
Mulgrave river, is the little township of Aloomba.
I have gps coordinates if you need the accuracy.
    -   Tom.






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Corey Seaton

#10070

Hi Barry,

The Facebook Group - Australian Sugar Cane Trains/Navvy Pics 2ft - has some images of the lines in Ingham if you're a member...

Cheers,

Corey

﻿On 20/4/20, 9:25 am, "Barry Sheffield" <LRRSA@groups.io on behalf of barrysheff@iprimus.com.au> wrote:

    If these lines are worked by tractors, it would be great to see photos of 
    this occurring. Does anyone have photos to share?

    cheers,
    Barry

Show quoted text

-----Original Message----- 
    From: Corey Seaton via groups.io
    Sent: 19 April, 2020 11:31 PM
    To: LRRSA@groups.io
    Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

    Hi Tom,

    Those GPS coordinates would be great please; I live in Gordonvale.

    CheeRs,

    Corey
    > On 19 Apr 2020, at 11:18 pm, Tom D <jtd245@gmail.com> wrote:
    >
    > ﻿   Corey,
    > Mulgave Mill is in Gordonvale, about 20 km south of Cairns, Qld.  The
    > Highleigh line is about 5 km east of the mill following the north side
    > of the Mulgrave river.   For reference, about 1 km south over the
    > Mulgrave river, is the little township of Aloomba.
    > I have gps coordinates if you need the accuracy.
    >     -   Tom.
    >
    >
    >





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Hunslet

#10071

I have a colour slide of tractor haulage of cane, but not at these Mills.   My photo was taken at one of the fields serving Broadwater Mill in northern NSW.
Hunslet.

Show quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: LRRSA@groups.io [mailto:LRRSA@groups.io] On Behalf Of Barry Sheffield
Sent: Monday, 20 April 2020 9:20 AM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

If these lines are worked by tractors, it would be great to see photos of this occurring. Does anyone have photos to share?

cheers,
Barry

-----Original Message-----
From: Corey Seaton via groups.io
Sent: 19 April, 2020 11:31 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

Hi Tom,

Those GPS coordinates would be great please; I live in Gordonvale.

CheeRs,

Corey
On 19 Apr 2020, at 11:18 pm, Tom D <jtd245@gmail.com> wrote:

﻿   Corey,
Mulgave Mill is in Gordonvale, about 20 km south of Cairns, Qld.  The 
Highleigh line is about 5 km east of the mill following the north side
of the Mulgrave river.   For reference, about 1 km south over the
Mulgrave river, is the little township of Aloomba.
I have gps coordinates if you need the accuracy.
    -   Tom.



 


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Luke Horniblow

#10072

John,

The two in Ingham i've been talking about still use a tractor to take the empties out & fulls in with which ever farmer is being cut at the time. The farmer still does it themself. The ones at Homebush for Racecourse mill i'm not sure if they still get used.

I do have some photo's of one of the Ingham ones being used by a tractor on my facebook page that Corey said about.

Cheers Luke.

Show quoted text

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> on behalf of Hunslet <hunslet@...>
Sent: Monday, 20 April 2020 11:37 AM
To: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

I have a colour slide of tractor haulage of cane, but not at these Mills.   My photo was taken at one of the fields serving Broadwater Mill in northern NSW.
Hunslet.

-----Original Message-----
From: LRRSA@groups.io [mailto:LRRSA@groups.io] On Behalf Of Barry Sheffield
Sent: Monday, 20 April 2020 9:20 AM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

If these lines are worked by tractors, it would be great to see photos of this occurring. Does anyone have photos to share?

cheers,
Barry

-----Original Message-----
From: Corey Seaton via groups.io
Sent: 19 April, 2020 11:31 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

Hi Tom,

Those GPS coordinates would be great please; I live in Gordonvale.

CheeRs,

Corey
> On 19 Apr 2020, at 11:18 pm, Tom D <jtd245@...> wrote:
>
>    Corey,
> Mulgave Mill is in Gordonvale, about 20 km south of Cairns, Qld. The
> Highleigh line is about 5 km east of the mill following the north side
> of the Mulgrave river.   For reference, about 1 km south over the
> Mulgrave river, is the little township of Aloomba.
> I have gps coordinates if you need the accuracy.
>     -   Tom.
>
>
>

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Tom D

#10073

Barry,
After quite a search, I found my 2006 photo of a tractor hauling a load of full bins out of Thomason's horse line, across the old Sandy creek bridge. This was in Light Railways some years ago. It is in a new album 'Horse lines'.
Also I have added a photo from last year of a tractor pushing empties at Peet's, Little Mulgrave. Not strictly a horse line, but a tractor is often used to push empties on to the road transport trucks, and here sometimes they do shunt small rakes of fulls or empties when the loco is unavailable.
- Tom.

Barry Sheffield

#10075

Tom,

Where do I find the album?

Barry

Show quoted text

From: Tom D

Sent: 20 April, 2020 6:10 PM

To: LRRSA@groups.io

Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

Barry,
After quite a search, I found my 2006 photo of a tractor hauling a load of full bins out of Thomason's horse line, across the old Sandy creek bridge. This was in Light Railways some years ago. It is in a new album 'Horse lines'.
Also I have added a photo from last year of a tractor pushing empties at Peet's, Little Mulgrave. Not strictly a horse line, but a tractor is often used to push empties on to the road transport trucks, and here sometimes they do shunt small rakes of fulls or empties when the loco is unavailable.
- Tom.

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Tom D

#10076

Barry,
Sorry, I did not explain, log in to LRRSA groups.
https://groups.io/g/LRRSA/album?id=245529

Now I see that I could have just attached the photos to the message, will do next time.
- Tom.

Barry Sheffield

#10077

Thanks for the photos Tom & Greg, good to see how it works

Barry

Show quoted text

From: Tom D

Sent: 21 April, 2020 4:13 PM

To: LRRSA@groups.io

Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

Barry,
Sorry, I did not explain, log in to LRRSA groups.
https://groups.io/g/LRRSA/album?id=245529

Now I see that I could have just attached the photos to the message, will do next time.
- Tom.

Virus-free. www.avast.com

Petan

#10078

Enjoying all the responses to my original question! Seems to a term whose meaning has evolved to suit the need.

Cheers

Peter Cokley

Show quoted text

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Barry Sheffield
Sent: Tuesday, 21 April 2020 4:50 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

Thanks for the photos Tom & Greg, good to see how it works

Barry

From: Tom D

Sent: 21 April, 2020 4:13 PM

To: LRRSA@groups.io

Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Horse line

Barry,
Sorry, I did not explain, log in to LRRSA groups.
https://groups.io/g/LRRSA/album?id=245529

Now I see that I could have just attached the photos to the message, will do next time.
- Tom.

Virus-free. www.avast.com