Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.
Frank Stamford
Hello all,
The LRRSA is proposing to publish a book titled "Australia's Colourful American Locomotives" by David Fletcher. The book is sub-titled "Their art and architecture 1870-1920". The book describes how architecture influenced the design and liveries of American locomotives in the nineteenth century, and includes about seventy detailed scale drawings showing the liveries of the locomotives, as delivered to Australia, in full colour. All known types of American locomotive delivered new to Australia from 1870 to 1920 are included, except Shay and Climax geared locomotives. The book will be in landscape format, with about 160 A3 size pages (420 x 297 mm). As this will be an expensive project the LRRSA is seeking expressions of interest from those likely to purchase a copy. The pre-publication price will probably be about $95, and the print run may be limited to the number of expressions of interest received. You can register your interest by going to the LRRSA website: www.lrrsa.org.au You can see a preview video about the book here: https://youtu.be/uU2dpTfhVMc Frank Stamford (LRRSA Publications Officer)
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rthorne475
Will it include the Baldwin built Sydney steam trams and the single Adelaide one? The latter was painted canary yellow. Richard Horne
On Thursday, 31 October 2019, 10:14:17 GMT, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:
Hello all, The LRRSA is proposing to publish a book titled "Australia's Colourful American Locomotives" by David Fletcher. The book is sub-titled "Their art and architecture 1870-1920". The book describes how architecture influenced the design and liveries of American locomotives in the nineteenth century, and includes about seventy detailed scale drawings showing the liveries of the locomotives, as delivered to Australia, in full colour. All known types of American locomotive delivered new to Australia from 1870 to 1920 are included, except Shay and Climax geared locomotives. The book will be in landscape format, with about 160 A3 size pages (420 x 297 mm). As this will be an expensive project the LRRSA is seeking expressions of interest from those likely to purchase a copy. The pre-publication price will probably be about $95, and the print run may be limited to the number of expressions of interest received. You can register your interest by going to the LRRSA website: www.lrrsa.org.au You can see a preview video about the book here: https://youtu.be/uU2dpTfhVMc Frank Stamford (LRRSA Publications Officer)
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Frank Stamford
Hello Richard, It will include the Sydney Baldwin steam tram motors, and the Bendigo and Belmont Shire (Brisbane) steam tram motors. It does not include the Adelaide one because that was unknown to the author (and to me). Do you have any more information about it? Regards, Frank
On 31 Oct 2019, at 10:26 pm, rthorne475 via Groups.Io <rthorne475@...> wrote:
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John Dennis
The Adelaide steam motor is mentioned in Bruce Macdonald's book: Baldwin 4343 of 1878. As Richard says, described as "painted canary yellow". John
On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 23:40, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:
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rthorne475
It was ordered by the Adelaide Unley & Mitcham Tramway Co. through Arkell, Tufts & Co., New York Export Agents. Numbered 1, it was sold in November 1883 to the Parramatta Tramway of Sydney Ferries, where it survived to the late 1930s. It had a vertical boiler and I'm sure you've seen photos of it there, Frank. Cheers, Richard
On Thursday, 31 October 2019, 22:42:45 GMT, John Dennis <jdennis412@...> wrote:
The Adelaide steam motor is mentioned in Bruce Macdonald's book: Baldwin 4343 of 1878. As Richard says, described as "painted canary yellow". John On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 23:40, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:
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Frank Stamford
Thank you Richard.
Thanks for that information. I have
done a detailed check of the content of the proposed book, and
that appears to be the only locomotive that is missing. But not
every variation has an A3 size drawing, that would make the book
too big. For example, only one Sydney steam tram motor appears as
a drawing, and where there were Vauclain compound and simple
versions of a locomotive, there is usually only one drawing.
I googled Adelaide Baldwin steam tram
motor and it lead me to a couple of Trove newspaper references.
This one is from "The Express and Telegraph" of Friday 7 February
1879, p.2:
Regards,
Frank
On 1/11/2019 10:05 am, rthorne475 via
Groups.Io wrote:
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Bill Bolton <billbolton@...>
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 19:07:06 +1100, you wrote:
I googled Adelaide Baldwin steam tram motor and it lead me to a coupleSee also "Trolley Wire", June 1978 "The Mitcham Company had also imported a Baldwin steam motor but its use aroused considerable objection from upper-deck passengers and passers-by. It was abandoned within a few months and after a period of storage was sold to Sydney Ferries who used it from 1885 to 1937." Cheers, Bill Bill Bolton Sydney, Australia
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rthorne475
Bill, 'Trolley Wire' was totally incorrect in the reason it gave for the motor's withdrawal from use. Its run on 7th February was its first and last. Although successful, the Adelaide City Council demanded such an expensive licence for the Company to run it in regular service that it remained unused. I've not seen any report of this single trip that mentioned objections from the upper deck passengers (who would all have been invited guests if there were, indeed, any). The plans for the tramway submitted to parliament showed extensions of the line to quarries above Mitcham and the motor may well have been bought partly with the intention that it would haul wagons of building stone to Adelaide. The quarry lines were not built. Two photos of the motor are attached: when running in Parramatta and when derelict, stripped of its cab and so showing its innards. Cheers, Richard
On Saturday, 2 November 2019, 09:00:43 GMT, Bill Bolton <billbolton@...> wrote:
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 19:07:06 +1100, you wrote: > I googled Adelaide Baldwin steam tram motor and it lead me to a couple > of Trove newspaper references. See also "Trolley Wire", June 1978 "The Mitcham Company had also imported a Baldwin steam motor but its use aroused considerable objection from upper-deck passengers and passers-by. It was abandoned within a few months and after a period of storage was sold to Sydney Ferries who used it from 1885 to 1937." Cheers, Bill Bill Bolton Sydney, Australia
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Bill Bolton <billbolton@...>
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 11:07:23 +0000 (UTC), Richard wrote:
'Trolley Wire' was totally incorrect in the reason it gave forJohn Radcliffe is generally regarded as a very reliable source for information on Adelaide trams. Its run on 7th February was its first and last.Apparently not. According to the article below..... "The Motor, which we described in our issue of Friday, has made several experimental trips of a private character....." "THE ADELAIDE AND MITCHAM TRAMWAY. (The South Australian Advertiser, Mon 10 Feb 1879, Page 6) A public trial of the Baldwin steam motor, which the Adelaide and Mitcham Tramway Company intend using on their tramway, took place on Friday afternoon, February 7. The Motor, which we described in our issue of Friday, *has made several experimental trips of a private character, but a special trial of its powers was arranged for the 7th instant, to give the Mayor and members of the City Corporation an opportunity of witnessing its capabilities. The Company, it appears, have to obtain the consent of the Mayor to the running of steam motors within the streets of the city ,hence their anxiety to prove that the machine in question is in every way suitable for the work for which it was designed. Shortly after three o'clock the Mayor (Mr. C. Buik), the City Surveyver and Town Clerk, several Councillors and ex-Councillors, the Chairman and members of the Mitcham District Council, and representatives of the Unley Corporation, assembled in Flinders street, where the motor was attached to one of the Company's carriages." There is a lot more text to the article which can be viewed here.... <https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29368103> Although successful, the Adelaide City Council demanded such anThe company reported TWO reasons, not solely the licence fee.... ADELAIDE, UNLEY, AND MITCHAM, TRAMWAY COMPANY. (The South Australian Advertiser, Sat 14 Jun 1879, Page 13) "The steam motor imported by the Company was successfully used on the line for some time, but as the City Council demanded £103 before they would allow it to enter the city, and as also some popular prejudice against the use of steam on public roads remains to be overcome, your Directors deemed it expedient to discontinue its use for the present, and will wait the result of the trial of other engines which are being imported far other tramlines before deciding on the rival merits of steam aud horse. There is no doubt that if steam were entirely used a great saving would be effected, and traffic could be largely increased." There is a lot more text to the article which can be viewed here.... <https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29371977> Bill Bolton Sydney, Australia
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rthorne475
Dear Bill, Brilliant. The wonders of Trove. And thank you very much for correcting me with this additional, fascinating information. Cheers, Richard
On Sunday, 3 November 2019, 09:46:49 GMT, Bill Bolton <billbolton@...> wrote:
On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 11:07:23 +0000 (UTC), Richard wrote: > 'Trolley Wire' was totally incorrect in the reason it gave for > the motor's withdrawal from use. John Radcliffe is generally regarded as a very reliable source for information on Adelaide trams. > Its run on 7th February was its first and last. Apparently not. According to the article below..... "The Motor, which we described in our issue of Friday, has made several experimental trips of a private character....." "THE ADELAIDE AND MITCHAM TRAMWAY. (The South Australian Advertiser, Mon 10 Feb 1879, Page 6) A public trial of the Baldwin steam motor, which the Adelaide and Mitcham Tramway Company intend using on their tramway, took place on Friday afternoon, February 7. The Motor, which we described in our issue of Friday, *has made several experimental trips of a private character, but a special trial of its powers was arranged for the 7th instant, to give the Mayor and members of the City Corporation an opportunity of witnessing its capabilities. The Company, it appears, have to obtain the consent of the Mayor to the running of steam motors within the streets of the city ,hence their anxiety to prove that the machine in question is in every way suitable for the work for which it was designed. Shortly after three o'clock the Mayor (Mr. C. Buik), the City Surveyver and Town Clerk, several Councillors and ex-Councillors, the Chairman and members of the Mitcham District Council, and representatives of the Unley Corporation, assembled in Flinders street, where the motor was attached to one of the Company's carriages." There is a lot more text to the article which can be viewed here.... <https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29368103> > Although successful, the Adelaide City Council demanded such an > expensive licence for the Company to run it in regular service that > it remained unused. The company reported TWO reasons, not solely the licence fee.... ADELAIDE, UNLEY, AND MITCHAM, TRAMWAY COMPANY. (The South Australian Advertiser, Sat 14 Jun 1879, Page 13) "The steam motor imported by the Company was successfully used on the line for some time, but as the City Council demanded £103 before they would allow it to enter the city, and as also some popular prejudice against the use of steam on public roads remains to be overcome, your Directors deemed it expedient to discontinue its use for the present, and will wait the result of the trial of other engines which are being imported far other tramlines before deciding on the rival merits of steam aud horse. There is no doubt that if steam were entirely used a great saving would be effected, and traffic could be largely increased." There is a lot more text to the article which can be viewed here.... <https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29371977> Bill Bolton Sydney, Australia
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Frank Stamford
This has been an extremely interesting discussion which has brought some life back into this group!
Trove is indeed a wonderful resource which seems to be frequently leading to a revision of long held beliefs. I am hoping to find the time to do a little more exploring of Adelaide newspapers to find out more about this locomotive and its owners. I have found the Baldwin specification sheet for the locomotive, and against "Color" it says "Canary", but there is a question mark after it! It would appear that this was a very early example of a Baldwin steam tram motor, and some of its design features were of a transitional nature leading towards the successful Sydney design. The vertical boiler harked back to the (very recent) past), the horizontal cylinders looked to the future. And thank you Richard for the two photographs. Frank
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Bill Bolton <billbolton@...>
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:11:22 +1100, Frank wrote:
I am hoping to find the time to do a little more exploring ofThere is an intriguing entry on a SA State Library web page, regarding the 'Adelaide to Unley and Mitcham Tramway'. "while a meeting called to consider the use of steam motors is reported on 30 September 1879, page 5a; also see 29 November 1879 (supp.), page 2b." The journal concerned is "The Register", which unfortunately is not available through Trove. See <http://www.slsa.ha.sa.gov.au/manning/pn/m/mitcham.htm> I have found the Baldwin specification sheet for the locomotive, andThe horse tram rolling stock liveries in Adelaide often incorporated a bright yellow colour, so this would be consistent. See.... <https://www.flickriver.com/photos/intervene/4208462170/> And thank you Richard for the two photographs.Yes, very interesting! Bill Bolton Sydney, Australia
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Frank Stamford
Hello Bill,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
The Register is available on Trove, but you won't find it listed under "R" ! It is listed under "S" - South Australian Register 1839-1900. And it is a very good resource, That is a very nice looking horse tram that you have given the link to below: <https://www.flickriver.com/photos/intervene/4208462170/> Regards, Frank
On 4/11/2019 10:17 am, Bill Bolton wrote:
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:11:22 +1100, Frank wrote:I am hoping to find the time to do a little more exploring ofThere is an intriguing entry on a SA State Library web page, regarding
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Frank Stamford
Thank you to all who have registered your interest.
As a result of the responses received so far the LRRSA has decided to proceed with this project. If you have not yet registered your interest, and are likely to want a copy, you should register now so that you can take advantage of the pre-publication price. We will not be seeking payment until sometime next year, depending on when the layout is ready to print. You can register at www.lrrsa.org.au With regard to the Adelaide steam tram motor, the book's text will be modified to mention it, and the author is currently checking to see if enough information is available to produce a coloured drawing. Frank
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Geoffrey Hansen
Interesting. I never knew that the Tramway had a vertical boiler steam engine.
From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> on behalf of rthorne475 via Groups.Io <rthorne475@...>
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2019 10:05:58 AM To: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book. It was ordered by the Adelaide Unley & Mitcham Tramway Co. through Arkell, Tufts & Co., New York Export Agents. Numbered 1, it was sold in November 1883 to the Parramatta Tramway of Sydney Ferries, where it survived to the late 1930s. It had
a vertical boiler and I'm sure you've seen photos of it there, Frank.
Cheers, Richard
On Thursday, 31 October 2019, 22:42:45 GMT, John Dennis <jdennis412@...> wrote:
The Adelaide steam motor is mentioned in Bruce Macdonald's book: Baldwin 4343 of 1878. As Richard says, described as "painted canary yellow".
John
On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 23:40, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:
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Frank Stamford
A little update on this project.
The pioneering Adelaide steam tram motor will be included. The author has just completed the drawings which I have seen. There are drawings of each end, and two side views, one with the outside casing removed to show the inner workings. It is a great addition to the book as it is the only use of canary colour, and the only vertical-boilered locomotive in the book! The final layout of the book is now about to commence, and it is hoped it will go to the printer around March next year. Regards, Frank
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