: Re: Balls Head


Michael McCarthy
 

My own definition/description would be:
Jetty - a small/medium sized wooden structure jutting out from a shoreline
Pier - a large wooden or masonry structure jutting out from a shoreline
Wharf - a structure that boats or ships tie up to.

This is how I have always understood things but can't recall why I have come to understand these structures in this way.
Cheers,
Mike


John Dennis
 

The Carnarvon Jetty and the Port Germein Jetty, both about one mile long, sort of contradict your "small/medium" definition. 

John

On 29 February 2016 at 19:47, mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

My own definition/description would be:
Jetty - a small/medium sized wooden structure jutting out from a shoreline
Pier - a large wooden or masonry structure jutting out from a shoreline
Wharf - a structure that boats or ships tie up to.

This is how I have always understood things but can't recall why I have come to understand these structures in this way.
Cheers,
Mike



Rod Hutchinson
 

What is a dock then?

Rod Hutchinson
Mooroolbark
Australia

On 29 Feb 2016 7:47 pm, "mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

My own definition/description would be:
Jetty - a small/medium sized wooden structure jutting out from a shoreline
Pier - a large wooden or masonry structure jutting out from a shoreline
Wharf - a structure that boats or ships tie up to.

This is how I have always understood things but can't recall why I have come to understand these structures in this way.
Cheers,
Mike


Michael McCarthy
 

More of description than a definition and in any case I wasn't referring to length. I was referring to how substantial a structure it is. If it was of typical wooden pile construction and a couple of meters in width it would be a jetty to me. If it was of concrete construction I would be inclined to call it a pier.
I suspect pier vs jetty is a bit subjective. What I gave is how I would describe each. How someone else does is their business.
Its a bit like boat vs ship and tramway vs railway. There is a big grey zone. Also some structures start off as small jetties and continue to be referred to as such even if a century later they are of much more substantial construction. "Welshpool jetty" for example is very much a pier to me these days.

Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911

On 29 Feb 2016, at 19:55, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

The Carnarvon Jetty and the Port Germein Jetty, both about one mile long, sort of contradict your "small/medium" definition. 

John

On 29 February 2016 at 19:47, mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

My own definition/description would be:
Jetty - a small/medium sized wooden structure jutting out from a shoreline
Pier - a large wooden or masonry structure jutting out from a shoreline
Wharf - a structure that boats or ships tie up to.

This is how I have always understood things but can't recall why I have come to understand these structures in this way.
Cheers,
Mike



Michael McCarthy
 

I think a dock is a semi-enclosed berthing structure. 

Mobile: +61 407700911

On 29 Feb 2016, at 19:56, Rod Hutchinson rodhutchy@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

What is a dock then?

Rod Hutchinson
Mooroolbark
Australia

On 29 Feb 2016 7:47 pm, "mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

My own definition/description would be:
Jetty - a small/medium sized wooden structure jutting out from a shoreline
Pier - a large wooden or masonry structure jutting out from a shoreline
Wharf - a structure that boats or ships tie up to.

This is how I have always understood things but can't recall why I have come to understand these structures in this way.
Cheers,
Mike


John Dennis
 

Fair enough. I agree with your jetty/pier descriptions then . However boats tie up to both jetties and piers, as well as wharves. My description of a wharf would include something indicating "running parallel to the coast/river bank" as opposed to jutting out into the water. 

But. there are exceptions everywhere, I am sure...

John

On 29 February 2016 at 22:28, Mike McCarthy mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

More of description than a definition and in any case I wasn't referring to length. I was referring to how substantial a structure it is. If it was of typical wooden pile construction and a couple of meters in width it would be a jetty to me. If it was of concrete construction I would be inclined to call it a pier.
I suspect pier vs jetty is a bit subjective. What I gave is how I would describe each. How someone else does is their business.
Its a bit like boat vs ship and tramway vs railway. There is a big grey zone. Also some structures start off as small jetties and continue to be referred to as such even if a century later they are of much more substantial construction. "Welshpool jetty" for example is very much a pier to me these days.

Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911

On 29 Feb 2016, at 19:55, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

The Carnarvon Jetty and the Port Germein Jetty, both about one mile long, sort of contradict your "small/medium" definition. 

John

On 29 February 2016 at 19:47, mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

My own definition/description would be:
Jetty - a small/medium sized wooden structure jutting out from a shoreline
Pier - a large wooden or masonry structure jutting out from a shoreline
Wharf - a structure that boats or ships tie up to.

This is how I have always understood things but can't recall why I have come to understand these structures in this way.
Cheers,
Mike




Eddie Oliver
 

On 29/02/2016 22:38, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] wrote:
Fair enough. I agree with your jetty/pier descriptions then . However boats tie up to both jetties and piers, as well as wharves. My description of a wharf would include something indicating "running parallel to the coast/river bank" as opposed to jutting out into the water. 



The ferry 'wharves' at Circular Quay in Sydney are perpendicular to the shore.  Although I haven't heard them so described for many years, they were once also referred to as jetties.



Michael McCarthy
 

I disagree with the orientation point. Melbourne had many wharves that were at right angles to the shore. It's about function. Wharves to me are facilities where ships/boats berthed to take on/ take off people/cargo. The direction they pointed is irrelevant.
You can tie a boat up to anything.  Many jetties had landing platforms to tie up to. The platforms sometimes are referred to as wharves. It's all pretty subjective.
Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911

On 29 Feb 2016, at 22:38, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

Fair enough. I agree with your jetty/pier descriptions then . However boats tie up to both jetties and piers, as well as wharves. My description of a wharf would include something indicating "running parallel to the coast/river bank" as opposed to jutting out into the water. 

But. there are exceptions everywhere, I am sure...

John

On 29 February 2016 at 22:28, Mike McCarthy mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

More of description than a definition and in any case I wasn't referring to length. I was referring to how substantial a structure it is. If it was of typical wooden pile construction and a couple of meters in width it would be a jetty to me. If it was of concrete construction I would be inclined to call it a pier.
I suspect pier vs jetty is a bit subjective. What I gave is how I would describe each. How someone else does is their business.
Its a bit like boat vs ship and tramway vs railway. There is a big grey zone. Also some structures start off as small jetties and continue to be referred to as such even if a century later they are of much more substantial construction. "Welshpool jetty" for example is very much a pier to me these days.

Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911

On 29 Feb 2016, at 19:55, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

The Carnarvon Jetty and the Port Germein Jetty, both about one mile long, sort of contradict your "small/medium" definition. 

John

On 29 February 2016 at 19:47, mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

My own definition/description would be:
Jetty - a small/medium sized wooden structure jutting out from a shoreline
Pier - a large wooden or masonry structure jutting out from a shoreline
Wharf - a structure that boats or ships tie up to.

This is how I have always understood things but can't recall why I have come to understand these structures in this way.
Cheers,
Mike




John Dennis
 

Indeed. And perhaps the largest container berth in Melbourne is Appleton Dock. 

Looks to me as though the names are all interchangable...

John

On 29 February 2016 at 23:07, Mike McCarthy mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

I disagree with the orientation point. Melbourne had many wharves that were at right angles to the shore. It's about function. Wharves to me are facilities where ships/boats berthed to take on/ take off people/cargo. The direction they pointed is irrelevant.
You can tie a boat up to anything.  Many jetties had landing platforms to tie up to. The platforms sometimes are referred to as wharves. It's all pretty subjective.
Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911

On 29 Feb 2016, at 22:38, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

Fair enough. I agree with your jetty/pier descriptions then . However boats tie up to both jetties and piers, as well as wharves. My description of a wharf would include something indicating "running parallel to the coast/river bank" as opposed to jutting out into the water. 

But. there are exceptions everywhere, I am sure...

John

On 29 February 2016 at 22:28, Mike McCarthy mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

More of description than a definition and in any case I wasn't referring to length. I was referring to how substantial a structure it is. If it was of typical wooden pile construction and a couple of meters in width it would be a jetty to me. If it was of concrete construction I would be inclined to call it a pier.
I suspect pier vs jetty is a bit subjective. What I gave is how I would describe each. How someone else does is their business.
Its a bit like boat vs ship and tramway vs railway. There is a big grey zone. Also some structures start off as small jetties and continue to be referred to as such even if a century later they are of much more substantial construction. "Welshpool jetty" for example is very much a pier to me these days.

Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911

On 29 Feb 2016, at 19:55, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

The Carnarvon Jetty and the Port Germein Jetty, both about one mile long, sort of contradict your "small/medium" definition. 

John

On 29 February 2016 at 19:47, mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

My own definition/description would be:
Jetty - a small/medium sized wooden structure jutting out from a shoreline
Pier - a large wooden or masonry structure jutting out from a shoreline
Wharf - a structure that boats or ships tie up to.

This is how I have always understood things but can't recall why I have come to understand these structures in this way.
Cheers,
Mike





Michael McCarthy
 

I think they are. Victoria Dock for example had Central Pier which featured numbered wharves along both sides as it jutted out from the end of the dock.
Generally speaking I think Australian usage would see a pier being a more substantially constructed and larger for of a jetty.
Cheers
Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911

On 1 Mar 2016, at 12:43 PM, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

Indeed. And perhaps the largest container berth in Melbourne is Appleton Dock. 

Looks to me as though the names are all interchangable...

John

On 29 February 2016 at 23:07, Mike McCarthy mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

I disagree with the orientation point. Melbourne had many wharves that were at right angles to the shore. It's about function. Wharves to me are facilities where ships/boats berthed to take on/ take off people/cargo. The direction they pointed is irrelevant.
You can tie a boat up to anything.  Many jetties had landing platforms to tie up to. The platforms sometimes are referred to as wharves. It's all pretty subjective.
Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911

On 29 Feb 2016, at 22:38, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

Fair enough. I agree with your jetty/pier descriptions then . However boats tie up to both jetties and piers, as well as wharves. My description of a wharf would include something indicating "running parallel to the coast/river bank" as opposed to jutting out into the water. 

But. there are exceptions everywhere, I am sure...

John

On 29 February 2016 at 22:28, Mike McCarthy mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

More of description than a definition and in any case I wasn't referring to length. I was referring to how substantial a structure it is. If it was of typical wooden pile construction and a couple of meters in width it would be a jetty to me. If it was of concrete construction I would be inclined to call it a pier.
I suspect pier vs jetty is a bit subjective. What I gave is how I would describe each. How someone else does is their business.
Its a bit like boat vs ship and tramway vs railway. There is a big grey zone. Also some structures start off as small jetties and continue to be referred to as such even if a century later they are of much more substantial construction. "Welshpool jetty" for example is very much a pier to me these days.

Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911

On 29 Feb 2016, at 19:55, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

The Carnarvon Jetty and the Port Germein Jetty, both about one mile long, sort of contradict your "small/medium" definition. 

John

On 29 February 2016 at 19:47, mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

My own definition/description would be:
Jetty - a small/medium sized wooden structure jutting out from a shoreline
Pier - a large wooden or masonry structure jutting out from a shoreline
Wharf - a structure that boats or ships tie up to.

This is how I have always understood things but can't recall why I have come to understand these structures in this way.
Cheers,
Mike





Peter Knife
 

I have always understood that a wharf had a solid wall down to the bottom of the water, backfilled and contiguous to the land, while a jetty/pier was a structure built out over the water on piles. However I do agree that the terms seem to be used interchangeably nowadays.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 1 March 2016 12:49 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re:: Re: Balls Head

 

 

I think they are. Victoria Dock for example had Central Pier which featured numbered wharves along both sides as it jutted out from the end of the dock.

Generally speaking I think Australian usage would see a pier being a more substantially constructed and larger for of a jetty.

Cheers

Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911


On 1 Mar 2016, at 12:43 PM, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

Indeed. And perhaps the largest container berth in Melbourne is Appleton Dock. 

 

Looks to me as though the names are all interchangable...

 

John

 

On 29 February 2016 at 23:07, Mike McCarthy mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

I disagree with the orientation point. Melbourne had many wharves that were at right angles to the shore. It's about function. Wharves to me are facilities where ships/boats berthed to take on/ take off people/cargo. The direction they pointed is irrelevant.

You can tie a boat up to anything.  Many jetties had landing platforms to tie up to. The platforms sometimes are referred to as wharves. It's all pretty subjective.

Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911


On 29 Feb 2016, at 22:38, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

Fair enough. I agree with your jetty/pier descriptions then . However boats tie up to both jetties and piers, as well as wharves. My description of a wharf would include something indicating "running parallel to the coast/river bank" as opposed to jutting out into the water. 

 

But. there are exceptions everywhere, I am sure...

 

John

 

On 29 February 2016 at 22:28, Mike McCarthy mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

More of description than a definition and in any case I wasn't referring to length. I was referring to how substantial a structure it is. If it was of typical wooden pile construction and a couple of meters in width it would be a jetty to me. If it was of concrete construction I would be inclined to call it a pier.

I suspect pier vs jetty is a bit subjective. What I gave is how I would describe each. How someone else does is their business.

Its a bit like boat vs ship and tramway vs railway. There is a big grey zone. Also some structures start off as small jetties and continue to be referred to as such even if a century later they are of much more substantial construction. "Welshpool jetty" for example is very much a pier to me these days.

 

Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911


On 29 Feb 2016, at 19:55, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

The Carnarvon Jetty and the Port Germein Jetty, both about one mile long, sort of contradict your "small/medium" definition. 

 

John

 

On 29 February 2016 at 19:47, mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

My own definition/description would be:
Jetty - a small/medium sized wooden structure jutting out from a shoreline
Pier - a large wooden or masonry structure jutting out from a shoreline
Wharf - a structure that boats or ships tie up to.

This is how I have always understood things but can't recall why I have come to understand these structures in this way.
Cheers,
Mike

_._,___


John Dennis
 

But the Echuca Wharf (amongst others) isn't solid - it is built on piles. It is parallel to the land though.

Most interesting discussion, this one.

John

On 1 March 2016 at 14:13, 'Peter Knife' pjknife@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

I have always understood that a wharf had a solid wall down to the bottom of the water, backfilled and contiguous to the land, while a jetty/pier was a structure built out over the water on piles. However I do agree that the terms seem to be used interchangeably nowadays.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 1 March 2016 12:49 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re:: Re: Balls Head

 

 

I think they are. Victoria Dock for example had Central Pier which featured numbered wharves along both sides as it jutted out from the end of the dock.

Generally speaking I think Australian usage would see a pier being a more substantially constructed and larger for of a jetty.

Cheers

Mike


On 1 Mar 2016, at 12:43 PM, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

Indeed. And perhaps the largest container berth in Melbourne is Appleton Dock. 

 

Looks to me as though the names are all interchangable...

 

John

 

On 29 February 2016 at 23:07, Mike McCarthy mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

I disagree with the orientation point. Melbourne had many wharves that were at right angles to the shore. It's about function. Wharves to me are facilities where ships/boats berthed to take on/ take off people/cargo. The direction they pointed is irrelevant.

You can tie a boat up to anything.  Many jetties had landing platforms to tie up to. The platforms sometimes are referred to as wharves. It's all pretty subjective.

Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911


On 29 Feb 2016, at 22:38, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

Fair enough. I agree with your jetty/pier descriptions then . However boats tie up to both jetties and piers, as well as wharves. My description of a wharf would include something indicating "running parallel to the coast/river bank" as opposed to jutting out into the water. 

 

But. there are exceptions everywhere, I am sure...

 

John

 

On 29 February 2016 at 22:28, Mike McCarthy mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

More of description than a definition and in any case I wasn't referring to length. I was referring to how substantial a structure it is. If it was of typical wooden pile construction and a couple of meters in width it would be a jetty to me. If it was of concrete construction I would be inclined to call it a pier.

I suspect pier vs jetty is a bit subjective. What I gave is how I would describe each. How someone else does is their business.

Its a bit like boat vs ship and tramway vs railway. There is a big grey zone. Also some structures start off as small jetties and continue to be referred to as such even if a century later they are of much more substantial construction. "Welshpool jetty" for example is very much a pier to me these days.

 

Mike

Mobile: +61 407700911


On 29 Feb 2016, at 19:55, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

The Carnarvon Jetty and the Port Germein Jetty, both about one mile long, sort of contradict your "small/medium" definition. 

 

John

 

On 29 February 2016 at 19:47, mike.mccarthy51@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

My own definition/description would be:
Jetty - a small/medium sized wooden structure jutting out from a shoreline
Pier - a large wooden or masonry structure jutting out from a shoreline
Wharf - a structure that boats or ships tie up to.

This is how I have always understood things but can't recall why I have come to understand these structures in this way.
Cheers,
Mike

_._,___



Stuart Thyer
 

As to a Dock, my guess is that they are land based structures where the ship essentially pulls up along side the shoreline. Examples would be Swanston Dock, Melbourne or the Alfred Graving Dock at Williamstown or the Sutherland and Fitzroy Docks at Cockatoo is.

When quoting from other webiste, just remember that not all authors are as skilled pedants as the combined forces of the LRRSA. I know a number of ex-naval types at work, I’ll try to remember and ask what they know of wharves, jetties, docks, piers, quays, breakwaters and groynes. One thing I do remember is how to upset a sailor. Call his vessel a ‘boat’ rather than a ‘ship’. Again, apparently there is a difference.


Rod Hutchinson
 

Otis Reading song "(Sittin'on) the Dock of the Bay"

A friend of mine was in the merchant navy and defined ships & boats.
Ships carry boats, boats don't carry boats.

Rod Hutchinson
Mooroolbark
Australia

On 1 Mar 2016 5:10 pm, "Stuart Thyer stuart.thyer@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

As to a Dock, my guess is that they are land based structures where the ship essentially pulls up along side the shoreline. Examples would be Swanston Dock, Melbourne or the Alfred Graving Dock at Williamstown or the Sutherland and Fitzroy Docks at Cockatoo is.

When quoting from other webiste, just remember that not all authors are as skilled pedants as the combined forces of the LRRSA. I know a number of ex-naval types at work, I’ll try to remember and ask what they know of wharves, jetties, docks, piers, quays, breakwaters and groynes. One thing I do remember is how to upset a sailor. Call his vessel a ‘boat’ rather than a ‘ship’. Again, apparently there is a difference.


Kevin Sewell
 



On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 5:20 PM, Rod Hutchinson wrote:
 A friend of mine was in the merchant navy and defined ships & boats.

Ships carry boats, boats don't carry boats.


Yup - you can put a boat on a ship, but you can't put a ship on a boat. 
That may be true, but hardly actually answers the question. Such is the world of the terminal pedant. 


--
Cheers,
Kevin

Training is learning the rules: experience is learning the exceptions.


Rod Hutchinson
 

I have just completed a 46 cruise circumnavigating the Indian Ocean and visiting some of the islands therein.

The captain would provide a short monolouge on the origin of terms used in common language but originate from maritime expressions of the past.

I am wondering if the terms of jetty, pier, wharf et al have similar origins.

Rod Hutchinson
Mooroolbark
Australia

On 1 Mar 2016 5:37 pm, "Kevin Sewell kevinrsewell@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 



On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 5:20 PM, Rod Hutchinson wrote:
 A friend of mine was in the merchant navy and defined ships & boats.

Ships carry boats, boats don't carry boats.


Yup - you can put a boat on a ship, but you can't put a ship on a boat. 
That may be true, but hardly actually answers the question. Such is the world of the terminal pedant. 


--
Cheers,
Kevin

Training is learning the rules: experience is learning the exceptions.


Noel Reed
 

In Sydney Harbour there are ferry BOATS to inner harbour destinations.

 

Manly commuters travel on ferry STEAMERS. These were originally operated by the Port Jackson and Manly Steam SHIP Company.

 

On many ocean cruises there is an announcement at noon (mid day) from the captain that from noon yesterday until noon today, the ship has STEAMED   XXX nautical miles. Most of today’s ships are diesel electric powered, so where does ‘steam’ come about ?

 

Noel Reed.

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 1 March 2016 5:11 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: : Re: Balls Head

 

 

As to a Dock, my guess is that they are land based structures where the ship essentially pulls up along side the shoreline. Examples would be Swanston Dock, Melbourne or the Alfred Graving Dock at Williamstown or the Sutherland and Fitzroy Docks at Cockatoo is.

 

When quoting from other webiste, just remember that not all authors are as skilled pedants as the combined forces of the LRRSA. I know a number of ex-naval types at work, I’ll try to remember and ask what they know of wharves, jetties, docks, piers, quays, breakwaters and groynes. One thing I do remember is how to upset a sailor. Call his vessel a ‘boat’ rather than a ‘ship’. Again, apparently there is a difference.

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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denis.wasley
 

And here on the Murray River in SA, Ferry landings are also called docks.
cheers
Denis Wasley
Berri SA
 

Sent: Tuesday, March 1, 2016 5:12 PM
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re: : Re: Balls Head
 
 

I have just completed a 46 cruise circumnavigating the Indian Ocean and visiting some of the islands therein.

The captain would provide a short monolouge on the origin of terms used in common language but originate from maritime expressions of the past.

I am wondering if the terms of jetty, pier, wharf et al have similar origins.

Rod Hutchinson
Mooroolbark
Australia

On 1 Mar 2016 5:37 pm, "Kevin Sewell kevinrsewell@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

 
 
On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 5:20 PM, Rod Hutchinson wrote:
 A friend of mine was in the merchant navy and defined ships & boats.

Ships carry boats, boats don't carry boats.

 
Yup - you can put a boat on a ship, but you can't put a ship on a boat.
That may be true, but hardly actually answers the question. Such is the world of the terminal pedant.
 
 
--
Cheers,
Kevin

Training is learning the rules: experience is learning the exceptions.


dickwho1
 

'Steamed' sounds better for nautical types to say, than' We have travelled or gone', so many miles.

By the way, a submarine was & still is termed, 'A boat', by naval people.


On 1 Mar 2016, at 17:12, Rod Hutchinson rodhutchy@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

I have just completed a 46 cruise circumnavigating the Indian Ocean and visiting some of the islands therein.

The captain would provide a short monolouge on the origin of terms used in common language but originate from maritime expressions of the past.

I am wondering if the terms of jetty, pier, wharf et al have similar origins.

Rod Hutchinson
Mooroolbark
Australia

On 1 Mar 2016 5:37 pm, "Kevin Sewell kevinrsewell@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 



On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 5:20 PM, Rod Hutchinson wrote:
 A friend of mine was in the merchant navy and defined ships & boats.

Ships carry boats, boats don't carry boats.


Yup - you can put a boat on a ship, but you can't put a ship on a boat. 
That may be true, but hardly actually answers the question. Such is the world of the terminal pedant. 


--
Cheers,
Kevin

Training is learning the rules: experience is learning the exceptions.



Tony Coen
 

Good humour to fill a book in this debate, folks!

 

“ships carry boats, boats have oars and don’t have decks” – true for everything except submarines.

 

My view of the pier, jetty, wharf saga is that the vernacular changes with time and up-bringing and ignorance also plays a roll, particularly with media and corporates. Being also a nautical bloke, the deemed terms had always been as follows:

 

  • Jetty:-  structure erected outwards from the shore over water for the docking/berthing of vessels;

 

  • Pier:-    substantial structure erected outwards from the shore over water for the docking/berthing of vessels;

 

  • Wharf:-  structure erected parallel to the shore, either filled, part-filled and/or over water for the docking/berthing of vessels.

 

The sizes of a jetty versus pier are open to question, but I think that common sense or someone’s opinion is a deciding factor. Most would not call a spindly structure for dinghies a pier, for example, nor would they really call a large concrete erection over water a jetty. People say that they are going to the wharf to do some fishing – a common enough statement and one that is innocently made with no thought given to the type of wharfage – there’s another term!

 

My thoughts,

 

            Tony Coen.

 


From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2016 5:11 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: : Re: Balls Head

 

 

As to a Dock, my guess is that they are land based structures where the ship essentially pulls up along side the shoreline. Examples would be Swanston Dock, Melbourne or the Alfred Graving Dock at Williamstown or the Sutherland and Fitzroy Docks at Cockatoo is.

 

When quoting from other webiste, just remember that not all authors are as skilled pedants as the combined forces of the LRRSA. I know a number of ex-naval types at work, I’ll try to remember and ask what they know of wharves, jetties, docks, piers, quays, breakwaters and groynes. One thing I do remember is how to upset a sailor. Call his vessel a ‘boat’ rather than a ‘ship’. Again, apparently there is a difference.