Mornington Peninsular railways


John Peterson
 

Hello all,

On holiday at the above I came across a 'newspaper' called Victorian Historical. This issue was devoted to the above. These are available at newsagencies in the area. There was a 2 page spread as well as the cover devoted to the Sorrento line with many photos; some horse powered and some Baldwin powered. A widish gauge [3'6" I'm guessing] line was shown on the Dromana pier and also Rye pier [with a horse powered firewood wagon].

There has been a series of these published covering different places in Victoria; many would have light railway material. A telephone number was provided to get copies: 0410582474 [Joseph].

Cheers
John P

Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.


John Cleverdon <johnc@...>
 

Hello all,
I wasn't able to get a copy of the issue with the Dromana and Rye piers,
and the Sorrento tramway (I'll check with the local historical society).

However, a newsagent at Mornington had a copy with the Westernport side
of the Peninsula, including photos from the Stony Point and Red Hill lines.

FYI, a book published by the local historical society (Dromana and
District Historical Society) - /A Dreamtime of Dromana/ - a few years
back has a few photos of the old (replaced 1950's) pier at Dromana,
showing the rails that ran along this pier. I think this was just a
manual/horse-powered trolley?
Looking at these photos, I'm also guessing that the gauge was wider than
3'6".

Regards,
John
--
John Cleverdon
Mornington Peninsula, Victoria
John's web page: http://users.cdi.com.au/~johnc/


David Axup
 

G'day John,



I grew up in Rye in the late 40's and through the 50's.



I cannot help with Dromana Pier or the Sorrento Tramway. Didn't go to
Dromana that often and the Sorrento Tramway was gone by the time we moved to
Rye in '46 after my father came out of the 2nd AIF.



The track on the Rye pier had one hand propelled trolley which was used by
the local fishermen [one of whom was my father] to move boxes of fish and
gear out to the two landings on the pier. There was also a shed on the
seaward end of the pier which the fishermen used to store gear and which was
locked. Obviously the local fishermen had keys. The trolley was also
chained and locked with access by the fishermen and Ports and Harbours
people and used to cart materials out to or from the shed. On at least one
occasion it was used to carry inert passengers back out to the end of the
pier for transfer to RIP after a heavy session in the Rye pub.



The shed was also occasionally used by the Ports and Harbours vessel RIP, an
ex-WW2 Corvette, for the storage of items.



Cheers,



David

From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf
Of John Cleverdon
Sent: Saturday, 17 April 2010 9:39 AM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Mornington Peninsular railways





Hello all,
I wasn't able to get a copy of the issue with the Dromana and Rye piers,
and the Sorrento tramway (I'll check with the local historical society).

However, a newsagent at Mornington had a copy with the Westernport side
of the Peninsula, including photos from the Stony Point and Red Hill lines.

FYI, a book published by the local historical society (Dromana and
District Historical Society) - /A Dreamtime of Dromana/ - a few years
back has a few photos of the old (replaced 1950's) pier at Dromana,
showing the rails that ran along this pier. I think this was just a
manual/horse-powered trolley?
Looking at these photos, I'm also guessing that the gauge was wider than
3'6".

Regards,
John
--
John Cleverdon
Mornington Peninsula, Victoria
John's web page: http://users.cdi.com.au/~johnc/


John Peterson
 

Hello all,

David; Re; Rye.The main photo shows a horse drawn wagon on the jetty with small wood log loaded crosswise on the wagon sugar cane style. The caption reads "Loading wood on Rye pier". Wood is being loaded from a boat onto the wagon [or maybe the other way?]. The article says that the main early industry of Rye was lime which was burnt in a number of kilms around Rye. So the implication might be wood was brought in via boat and the railway and bagged lime the other way. Might also mean that wood was exported but seems an involved and expensive way to send firewood. It doesn't say when the lime industry finished. In SA jetty lines the fishermen took over once the main use of the jetty declined so maybe a similar pattern here.

Hard to tell gauge from the photos, particularly ones with no people in it because of the light weight rail used.

Cheers
John

________________________________

From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au on behalf of David R Axup
Sent: Sat 17/04/2010 11:12 AM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] Re: Mornington Peninsular railways




G'day John,

I grew up in Rye in the late 40's and through the 50's.

I cannot help with Dromana Pier or the Sorrento Tramway. Didn't go to
Dromana that often and the Sorrento Tramway was gone by the time we moved to
Rye in '46 after my father came out of the 2nd AIF.

The track on the Rye pier had one hand propelled trolley which was used by
the local fishermen [one of whom was my father] to move boxes of fish and
gear out to the two landings on the pier. There was also a shed on the
seaward end of the pier which the fishermen used to store gear and which was
locked. Obviously the local fishermen had keys. The trolley was also
chained and locked with access by the fishermen and Ports and Harbours
people and used to cart materials out to or from the shed. On at least one
occasion it was used to carry inert passengers back out to the end of the
pier for transfer to RIP after a heavy session in the Rye pub.

The shed was also occasionally used by the Ports and Harbours vessel RIP, an
ex-WW2 Corvette, for the storage of items.

Cheers,

David

From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au <mailto:LRRSA%40yahoogroups.com.au> [mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au <mailto:LRRSA%40yahoogroups.com.au> ] On Behalf
Of John Cleverdon
Sent: Saturday, 17 April 2010 9:39 AM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au <mailto:LRRSA%40yahoogroups.com.au>
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Mornington Peninsular railways

Hello all,
I wasn't able to get a copy of the issue with the Dromana and Rye piers,
and the Sorrento tramway (I'll check with the local historical society).

However, a newsagent at Mornington had a copy with the Westernport side
of the Peninsula, including photos from the Stony Point and Red Hill lines.

FYI, a book published by the local historical society (Dromana and
District Historical Society) - /A Dreamtime of Dromana/ - a few years
back has a few photos of the old (replaced 1950's) pier at Dromana,
showing the rails that ran along this pier. I think this was just a
manual/horse-powered trolley?
Looking at these photos, I'm also guessing that the gauge was wider than
3'6".

Regards,
John
--
John Cleverdon
Mornington Peninsula, Victoria
John's web page: http://users.cdi.com.au/~johnc/ <http://users.cdi.com.au/~johnc/>









Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.


David Axup
 

G'day John,





Thanks for the information. It seems the small trolley on the Rye Pier was
a lot older than I thought.



The lime traffic had well and truly finished when I moved to Rye with my
parents in 1946.



There were the remains of two lime kilns that I personally visited in the
'50s. One at Boneo with a small line accessing Port Phillip and it appears
on Ordnance Survey Maps of the 1920s and the remains of the right of way and
some wheels still there in the very early '50s. There is another out off
Browns Road which you can still access but I don't know if it had a rail
line.



I am not sure about the wood issue. That part of the Peninsula had large
coastal Banksia trees and was covered in Coastal T-tree neither of which I
would have thought would be any good for the lime industry.



There is a wreck off Rye pier of one of the small coastal vessels used to
transport the lime to Melbourne and Geelong. As kids we knew about it and
occasionally could see bits of what we thought were part of the wreck. I
have the name of it somewhere.



I can find no photos or further particulars of the Boneo Lime Kiln and line.



There are the remains of a lime kiln on the beach at Portsea.



Cheers,



David

From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf
Of Peterson, John J
Sent: Saturday, 17 April 2010 10:40 PM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] Re: Mornington Peninsular railways





Hello all,

David; Re; Rye.The main photo shows a horse drawn wagon on the jetty with
small wood log loaded crosswise on the wagon sugar cane style. The caption
reads "Loading wood on Rye pier". Wood is being loaded from a boat onto the
wagon [or maybe the other way?]. The article says that the main early
industry of Rye was lime which was burnt in a number of kilms around Rye. So
the implication might be wood was brought in via boat and the railway and
bagged lime the other way. Might also mean that wood was exported but seems
an involved and expensive way to send firewood. It doesn't say when the lime
industry finished. In SA jetty lines the fishermen took over once the main
use of the jetty declined so maybe a similar pattern here.

Hard to tell gauge from the photos, particularly ones with no people in it
because of the light weight rail used.

Cheers
John

________________________________

From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au <mailto:LRRSA%40yahoogroups.com.au> on
behalf of David R Axup
Sent: Sat 17/04/2010 11:12 AM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au <mailto:LRRSA%40yahoogroups.com.au>
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] Re: Mornington Peninsular railways

G'day John,

I grew up in Rye in the late 40's and through the 50's.

I cannot help with Dromana Pier or the Sorrento Tramway. Didn't go to
Dromana that often and the Sorrento Tramway was gone by the time we moved to
Rye in '46 after my father came out of the 2nd AIF.

The track on the Rye pier had one hand propelled trolley which was used by
the local fishermen [one of whom was my father] to move boxes of fish and
gear out to the two landings on the pier. There was also a shed on the
seaward end of the pier which the fishermen used to store gear and which was
locked. Obviously the local fishermen had keys. The trolley was also
chained and locked with access by the fishermen and Ports and Harbours
people and used to cart materials out to or from the shed. On at least one
occasion it was used to carry inert passengers back out to the end of the
pier for transfer to RIP after a heavy session in the Rye pub.

The shed was also occasionally used by the Ports and Harbours vessel RIP, an
ex-WW2 Corvette, for the storage of items.

Cheers,

David

From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au <mailto:LRRSA%40yahoogroups.com.au>
<mailto:LRRSA%40yahoogroups.com.au> [mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
<mailto:LRRSA%40yahoogroups.com.au> <mailto:LRRSA%40yahoogroups.com.au> ]
On Behalf
Of John Cleverdon
Sent: Saturday, 17 April 2010 9:39 AM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au <mailto:LRRSA%40yahoogroups.com.au>
<mailto:LRRSA%40yahoogroups.com.au>
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Mornington Peninsular railways

Hello all,
I wasn't able to get a copy of the issue with the Dromana and Rye piers,
and the Sorrento tramway (I'll check with the local historical society).

However, a newsagent at Mornington had a copy with the Westernport side
of the Peninsula, including photos from the Stony Point and Red Hill lines.

FYI, a book published by the local historical society (Dromana and
District Historical Society) - /A Dreamtime of Dromana/ - a few years
back has a few photos of the old (replaced 1950's) pier at Dromana,
showing the rails that ran along this pier. I think this was just a
manual/horse-powered trolley?
Looking at these photos, I'm also guessing that the gauge was wider than
3'6".

Regards,
John
--
John Cleverdon
Mornington Peninsula, Victoria
John's web page: http://users.cdi.com.au/~johnc/
<http://users.cdi.com.au/~johnc/>





Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received
in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using
attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss,
damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or
not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our
liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any
representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender,
and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood
Development.


Michael J
 

Hi all,

The Mornington Peninsula at the beginning of European settlement in the Port Phillip District was covered with she-oak forests which were used to provide Melbourne (and the lime kilns) with firewood. Lime was of course a prime requirement for settlement as well, being an essential building material. Before railways the bay would have been busy with boats moving goods around, and firewood and lime would have been important commodities.

The firewood industry changed the ecology of the Mornington Peninsula, the eucalypt dominated woodlands seen today are regrowth replacing the she-oak forests that were cut down.

Also I think it fair to say that pretty well every public jetty of any reasonable length in Victoria had a tramway with hand-pushed trolley at some point.

Cheers,

Michael J

ps thanks to all who attended yesterdays Southern Forest Narrow Gauge Meet, and helped make it a great day.


John Peterson
 

Hello all,

This is all very interesting. Most jetty lines ran along the jetty to shore only with maybe some sort of a shed at the end. Be interesting to know if the Rye line ran further inland in the early days to the lime kilms or the firewood places. Guess early maps might show and I wonder if early local newspapers are on line?

The firewood wagon looked quite substantial, a lot bigger than the ones I saw on the SA jetty lines.

Cheers
John P


________________________________

From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au on behalf of thirtyinchfan
Sent: Mon 19/04/2010 3:31 PM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Mornington Peninsular railways





Hi all,

The Mornington Peninsula at the beginning of European settlement in the Port Phillip District was covered with she-oak forests which were used to provide Melbourne (and the lime kilns) with firewood. Lime was of course a prime requirement for settlement as well, being an essential building material. Before railways the bay would have been busy with boats moving goods around, and firewood and lime would have been important commodities.

The firewood industry changed the ecology of the Mornington Peninsula, the eucalypt dominated woodlands seen today are regrowth replacing the she-oak forests that were cut down.

Also I think it fair to say that pretty well every public jetty of any reasonable length in Victoria had a tramway with hand-pushed trolley at some point.

Cheers,

Michael J

ps thanks to all who attended yesterdays Southern Forest Narrow Gauge Meet, and helped make it a great day.





Important - This email and any attachments may be confidential. If received in error, please contact us and delete all copies. Before opening or using attachments check them for viruses and defects. Regardless of any loss, damage or consequence, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not, resulting directly or indirectly from the use of any attached files our liability is limited to resupplying any affected attachments. Any representations or opinions expressed are those of the individual sender, and not necessarily those of the Department of Education and Early Childhood Development.


John Cleverdon <johnc@...>
 

Hello all,
If you look at the 'Maps and Diagrams' directory (under 'Photo Albums'
on the LRRSA Yahoo website) you will see a 1930's map of a tramway
running along Truemans Road, put online by Phil Rickard.

However, this would be 3-4 km (?) east of Rye Pier.

I was also able to get a copy of the "Victorian Historical' with the
Dromana/Rye/Sorrento tramways from the local Historical Society last
weekend.

Regards,
John
--
John Cleverdon
Mornington Peninsula, Victoria
John's web page: http://users.cdi.com.au/~johnc/


David Axup
 

G'day John,



The line along Trueman's Road was from a lime kiln part of which was still
there in the late 40's and early 50's. Part of the right of way was also
still there as well as some narrow gauge wheel sets. As a child I used to
go there with some mates to catch tadpoles in the ponds at the kiln. I went
looking for the remains about 20 years ago but couldn't find anything.



Not sure if that is because I was looking in the wrong place or what had
been there was removed as the area developed.



I have been unable to find anything, other than the 1930's map referring to
the line.



There was supposed to be a jetty near Trueman's Road but, like the one at
Canterbury between Rye and Blairgowrie, it was long gone in the late 40's.
The map does not show a jetty but it does show a beacon which, putting on my
Master's cap, would indicate that there was probably a jetty at some time as
otherwise there would be no reason to put in a beacon as a navigation mark
as navigation in shore by anything other than small craft cannot be made in
that area. Perhaps there had been a deeper channel.



Then again what is shown as the Lime and Fertilizer works on the map may
have been the reason for the line. In the late 40's and 50's there was a
plaster works [Wilsons] on the corner of Trueman's Road and the Nepean
Highway.



I'd love to find out more about the Trueman's Road line if anyone knows
anymore about it.



Cheers,



David

From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf
Of John Cleverdon
Sent: Monday, 26 April 2010 10:22 AM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Mornington Peninsular railways





Hello all,
If you look at the 'Maps and Diagrams' directory (under 'Photo Albums'
on the LRRSA Yahoo website) you will see a 1930's map of a tramway
running along Truemans Road, put online by Phil Rickard.

However, this would be 3-4 km (?) east of Rye Pier.

I was also able to get a copy of the "Victorian Historical' with the
Dromana/Rye/Sorrento tramways from the local Historical Society last
weekend.

Regards,
John
--
John Cleverdon
Mornington Peninsula, Victoria
John's web page: http://users.cdi.com.au/~johnc/