Little Yarra


David Halfpenny <dh16mm@...>
 

--------------------------------------------------
From: <thirtyinchfan@pearcedale.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 9:43 AM


There is an argument that prototypes are best modelled with the correct scale gauge for that prototype,
I think I've managed to say a lot without answering you question!
Well I'm sympathetic to the dilemma because I have much the same issue with "the odd six inches" but in the other direction.

When I started Australian modelling it all seemed so simple. Warburton and Powelltown's three foot gauge was perfect for 1/20 scale on 45mm gauge. I bought a couple of live steamers and started converting a third to a reasonable rendering of Warburton Steam Tramway No.3. If ever Little Yarra came out in 1/20 scale, I'd be like a dog with two lamp-posts.

I knew that my Lahey Brothers Climax had been built to 3'6" gauge, but, hey it didn't matter - maybe Powelltown could have tried a Climax along with their Shays? Maybe the Laheys could have sold theirs on to a line that regauged her instead of s t r e t c h i n g her boiler? She still looked OK.

And then I got interested in Kiwi bush trams. Sure I'd be happy with a Price on three foot gauge - I hear there were some three foot tramways on South Island. But when I came across Ollie Smith's rail tractors, they just looked horribly wrong in 1/20 scale. That odd six inches made a huge to difference to the "look" of those particular prototypes.

Then fate took an unexpected turn - I was offered some 1/24 scale live steamers . . . . I suppose I'll just run two separate fleets. After all, there's a lot more water between OX and NZ than most Poms realise!

David 1/2d
Blighty


Brian Millar <rallim56@...>
 

Hi Michael, David & All,
With regards to the frames of a model of Little Yarra, it would be very easy for any manufacturer to build the main frames at 10mm. in width and have castings with all the detail which fit onto the main inner frames for On30, and additional spacers to space these detail frames out further for On3.
Cheers
Brian.Millar

----- Original Message -----
From: <thirtyinchfan@pearcedale.com>
To: <LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [LRRSA] Re: Little Yarra


----- Original Message -----
From: David Halfpenny [mailto:dh16mm@hotmail.com]


I'm not sure I've got your drift, Michael.

Is your emphasis on "minor" or "offence"?

ie are you for it?
or agin it?
That's a difficult question!

I model in On30, and I guess the more that is available, the more interests covered, the more people will model On30, and the more likely it is products I would like to see will be produced. So from a purely selfish point of view the more the better.

There is an argument that prototypes are best modelled with the correct scale gauge for that prototype, and I have some sympathy for that. On the other hand there are practical considerations, and On30 is, as you have observed, a practical scale/gauge. The practical arguments can run from the difficulty of hand-building turnouts, as would be required in On3 for instance, to by choosing On30 I can run my equipment on my mates layout, and visa versa. There is also the very practical argument for the manufacturer that by choosing On30 he stands some chance of selling enough models to make the enterprise worthwhile.

Since coming back into the hobby 5 or more years ago I have become somewhat fascinated with 2'6" gauge railways in particular. I have collected quite a lot of information on 2'6" gauge railways and their equipment. One thing I note is that with industrial locomotives and the lines they ran on, choice of gauge is often a whim of their owner. That is there is no reason the Powelltown line could not have been built in 2'6" gauge, and operate very similar equipment. The question would Baldwin have built Little Yarra with outside frames for this gauge is an interesting one. Probably, but there is enough leeway there to give any modeller the benefit of the doubt. One interesting scenario for a freelance modeller would be to imagine the Warburton line was built to 2'6" gauge as planned, and the Powelltown interchanged with it.

I am a freelance modeller, but I hope that my scenario retains a high degree of plausibility. I probably won't buy a Little Yarra model, because it is too small and too modern for my scenario. And because I am modelling a 2'6" gauge railway (even if fictitious) I think I would also be worried about the frames issue as well.

I better become a politician, because I think I've managed to say a lot without answering you question!

My apologies to the moderators if this post has strayed too far off topic.

Cheers

Michael






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Michael J
 

----- Original Message -----
From: David Halfpenny [mailto:dh16mm@hotmail.com]


I'm not sure I've got your drift, Michael.

Is your emphasis on "minor" or "offence"?

ie are you for it?
or agin it?
That's a difficult question!

I model in On30, and I guess the more that is available, the more interests covered, the more people will model On30, and the more likely it is products I would like to see will be produced. So from a purely selfish point of view the more the better.

There is an argument that prototypes are best modelled with the correct scale gauge for that prototype, and I have some sympathy for that. On the other hand there are practical considerations, and On30 is, as you have observed, a practical scale/gauge. The practical arguments can run from the difficulty of hand-building turnouts, as would be required in On3 for instance, to by choosing On30 I can run my equipment on my mates layout, and visa versa. There is also the very practical argument for the manufacturer that by choosing On30 he stands some chance of selling enough models to make the enterprise worthwhile.

Since coming back into the hobby 5 or more years ago I have become somewhat fascinated with 2'6" gauge railways in particular. I have collected quite a lot of information on 2'6" gauge railways and their equipment. One thing I note is that with industrial locomotives and the lines they ran on, choice of gauge is often a whim of their owner. That is there is no reason the Powelltown line could not have been built in 2'6" gauge, and operate very similar equipment. The question would Baldwin have built Little Yarra with outside frames for this gauge is an interesting one. Probably, but there is enough leeway there to give any modeller the benefit of the doubt. One interesting scenario for a freelance modeller would be to imagine the Warburton line was built to 2'6" gauge as planned, and the Powelltown interchanged with it.

I am a freelance modeller, but I hope that my scenario retains a high degree of plausibility. I probably won't buy a Little Yarra model, because it is too small and too modern for my scenario. And because I am modelling a 2'6" gauge railway (even if fictitious) I think I would also be worried about the frames issue as well.

I better become a politician, because I think I've managed to say a lot without answering you question!

My apologies to the moderators if this post has strayed too far off topic.

Cheers

Michael


David Halfpenny <dh16mm@...>
 

--------------------------------------------------
From: <thirtyinchfan@pearcedale.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 11:36 PM

I think an On30 "Little Yarra" is a minor offence against the laws of nature.
I'm not sure I've got your drift, Michael.

Is your emphasis on "minor" or "offence"?

ie are you for it?
or agin it?

David 1/2d


Michael J
 

I think an On30 "Little Yarra" is a minor offence against the laws of nature. "Little Yarra" was quite a small loco and Baldwin certainly constructed inside framed locos of around this size for 2'6" gauge, although admittedly most that come to my mind were built a few decades before "Little Yarra".

Reality is that an On30 model is most commercially viable, as this is by far the most popular scale/gauge combination for Aussie narrow gauge modelers. However a benelvent manufacturer would design his product to allow correct 3/4" gauge wheelsets if desired by the modeler.

Anyway, I would be fascinated to see photos of 6-14-C class locos in 2'6" guage if they ever do come to light.

Cheers

Michael

----- Original Message -----
From: David Halfpenny [mailto:dh16mm@hotmail.com]
Sent: 27/05/2008 6:50:09 PM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re: Little Yarra



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Frank Stamford" <frank.stamford@bigpond.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 4:58 AM
To: <LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au>
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Little Yarra

Hello David,

Yes Brian is aware of the articles and drawings in the April "Narrow
Gauge Downunder" and "Light Railways". He actually approached us for
information in January, and he probably wrote to "Narrow Gauge and
Short Lines Gazette" at the same time.

Changing "Little Yarra" to 2 ft 6 in gauge is quite a radical
divergence from the prototype I think. Baldwin would probably have
used outside frames for 2 ft 6in gauge, though my efforts to find
photographs of any of the three 2 ft 6 in gauge 6-14-C class locos
have so far proved fruitless.
Thanks, Frank, that's what I guessed on all fronts.

I think On30 is a hard disease to cure, simply because it is so expedient -
easy track, easy scenics, and with outside framed gear and wide treads,
nobody notices that the flanges are pushed in a whisker too far.

I'm feeling queasy about an On30 Little Yarra, but then it's not my scale.

Brian in his Gazette letter mentions "the Australian market" which implies
big ideas. It will be interesting to see how Australians vote with their
wallets.

David 1/2d



David Halfpenny <dh16mm@...>
 

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Frank Stamford" <frank.stamford@bigpond.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 4:58 AM
To: <LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au>
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Little Yarra

Hello David,

Yes Brian is aware of the articles and drawings in the April "Narrow
Gauge Downunder" and "Light Railways". He actually approached us for
information in January, and he probably wrote to "Narrow Gauge and
Short Lines Gazette" at the same time.

Changing "Little Yarra" to 2 ft 6 in gauge is quite a radical
divergence from the prototype I think. Baldwin would probably have
used outside frames for 2 ft 6in gauge, though my efforts to find
photographs of any of the three 2 ft 6 in gauge 6-14-C class locos
have so far proved fruitless.
Thanks, Frank, that's what I guessed on all fronts.

I think On30 is a hard disease to cure, simply because it is so expedient - easy track, easy scenics, and with outside framed gear and wide treads, nobody notices that the flanges are pushed in a whisker too far.

I'm feeling queasy about an On30 Little Yarra, but then it's not my scale.

Brian in his Gazette letter mentions "the Australian market" which implies big ideas. It will be interesting to see how Australians vote with their wallets.

David 1/2d


Frank Stamford
 

Hello David,

Yes Brian is aware of the articles and drawings in the April "Narrow
Gauge Downunder" and "Light Railways". He actually approached us for
information in January, and he probably wrote to "Narrow Gauge and
Short Lines Gazette" at the same time.

Changing "Little Yarra" to 2 ft 6 in gauge is quite a radical
divergence from the prototype I think. Baldwin would probably have
used outside frames for 2 ft 6in gauge, though my efforts to find
photographs of any of the three 2 ft 6 in gauge 6-14-C class locos
have so far proved fruitless.

Regards,

Frank




--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "David Halfpenny" <dh16mm@...> wrote:

I notice that there's a guy asking in NGSLG V34/2 for plans of
Little Yarra
so he can make an On30 commercial model to go with the Baldwin NA
that his
company already does.

Can I assume somebody has already fielded this one?

He's "Brain Chester" (sic - probably Brian)
Manager, Broad Gauge Models,
bgm@...

David 1/2d


David Halfpenny <dh16mm@...>
 

I notice that there's a guy asking in NGSLG V34/2 for plans of Little Yarra so he can make an On30 commercial model to go with the Baldwin NA that his company already does.

Can I assume somebody has already fielded this one?

He's "Brain Chester" (sic - probably Brian)
Manager, Broad Gauge Models,
bgm@webaxz.net

David 1/2d