Date   

Off-topic; Pop goes the Garratt!

Michael C.
 

Dear all,
 
I've been going through my archives again and have uploaded another album of images to Flickr, this time from May 2008.
 
There were two evening runs on the Welsh Highland Railway for customers and friends of a company called Backwoods Miniatures (http://www.backwoodsminiatures.com/) - I have no connection to this company other than being a satisfied customer. Other model manufacturers / suppliers are available.
 
The images show the K1 Garratt, NGG16 143 and Prince on the WHR in North Wales. The latter two locomotives were 'in difficulties'...
 
 
Take a look if you're interested.
 
Cheers,
 
Michael Chapman

Follow the Welsh Highland Heritage Railway on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/WHHRly
Follow my railway adventures on Flickr at http://tinyurl.com/nlvlnmt


Re CC17 and C & B class loco tender

Petan
 

This is the URL to the corrected C & B Class Loco Tender 30March1866 file without my blue typing error which did not obscure any original 1866 material https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByB-ppGeDyvwVTBMMUZnSzd0Mzg/edit Now that I had time I corrected my add-on labelling portion as there are some historians who might like the better version.

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 


Updated Vicmap sample PDF - Powelltown

John Cleverdon <johnc@...>
 

Hello all,
After a lot of fiddling around, I've finally got an updated PDF map of the Powelltown area (using sample Vicmap data) on the web.

It can be found at (note, file size is around 20MB):
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/z7d5iaoqha8yb0o/AAAxZJ_ByuJBbZmozuQJbTqsa?dl=0

I've got it on DropBox now due to the 10MB limit on Yahoo Groups.
If you have any problems, please let me know as it is my first attempt at putting a file on DropBox.

Extra details added from the previous version are:
- Hairylegs rail network
- Buildings (as point features)
- Parks and reserves
- State forests
- Geographic Names Register point features
- Geological Significant features
- Geographic area and point features
- Easements
- Victorian Heritage Register and Inventory sites

- As well, I've done some customisation of the symbology
- A scale bar has also been added at the bottom right of the map

Therefore, this map is now quite crowded, but as the PDF is layered, you can turn layers on and off as needed.

Regards,
John
--
John Cleverdon
Mornington Peninsula, Victoria, Australia
John's web page: http://users.cdi.com.au/~johnc/
LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/pub/john-cleverdon/a/a81/2b


Re: [qrig] CC17 and C & B class loco tender

Petan
 

The “prize” for spotting my Neilson & Co typo has been awarded to Chris Stratton from the Locoshed forum. It was not intentional so sorry about that. I have it on too many forums to change them all so it will become a embarrassing signature of sorts. For comparison, the correct spelling was written by the Neilson draughtsman on the actual document.  

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

From: qrig@... [mailto:qrig@...]
Sent: Friday, 13 February 2015 5:15 PM
To: qrig@...; LocoShed@...
Subject: [qrig] CC17 and C & B class loco tender

 

CC17 locomotive class General Arrangement diagram courtesy Queensland Railways. Date hard to read bottom right hand corner data box but maybe 1st MAY 1952. Work of Mechanical Engineer’s Branch Ipswich according to the data box. Original paper size 54 x 31 inch by my tape measure, although the file’s “Properties” data said 54 x 36 inch which may have been a scanner reading. Downloadable PDF of 36 MB file size https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByB-ppGeDyvwU3NQM0l4M1F3NkU/edit

 

General arrangement style drawing courtesy QR of C & B Class Loco Tender Nelson & Co Hyde Park Loco Works Glasgow 30March1866. Original paper size 36 x 26 inch. Downloadable PDF of 22.5MB file size https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByB-ppGeDyvwUnVneWdtdThVY1k/edit

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 


Re: : RE: Currumbin Bird Sanctuary source

Petan
 

Since the Currumbin Sanctuary uses a live steam loco based on the proposed QR CC17 loco class, some here might be interested. I also included the 1866 loco tender as it might be of interest due to its historical value in demonstrating how these sorts of plans were done in 1866.


CC17 locomotive class General Arrangement diagram courtesy Queensland Railways. Date hard to read bottom right hand corner data box but maybe 1st MAY 1952. Work of Mechanical Engineer’s Branch Ipswich according to the data box. Original paper size 54 x 31 inch by my tape measure, although the file’s “Properties” data said 54 x 36 inch which may have been a scanner reading. Downloadable PDF of 36 MB file size https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByB-ppGeDyvwU3NQM0l4M1F3NkU/edit


General arrangement style drawing courtesy QR of C & B Class Loco Tender Nelson & Co Hyde Park Loco Works Glasgow 30March1866. Original paper size 36 x 26 inch and file size 22.5MB. Downloadable PDF https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByB-ppGeDyvwUnVneWdtdThVY1k/edit


Cheers

Peter Cokley


Re: : SA pier tramways

Roderick Smith
 

Thanks Phil,

Here is a stirring story of a record run in 1914.


Roderick B Smith

Rail News Victoria Editor


The route taken by this record run was the mail route until the through  railway was opened: train to Casterton; Cobb & Co to Meningie; lake paddlesteamer to Milang; then train to Adelaide. Today's Western/Dukes Hwy
must have quite horrible for this longer route to be the choice for speed. I have fixed the ocr errors at the Trove reference. Here is a  heavily-edited version. Time zones in Australia dated from about the 1880s, so Adelaide was precisely 30 min behind Melbourne.

 

1914 record. Melbourne - Adelaide, at up to 80 mph [130 km/h].
How Aunger crossed the Coorong.
Mr Murray Aunger's record-breaking drive from Melbourne to to Adelaide stamps the performance as the fastest and finest achievement yet accomplished in Australia on a motor car. For nearly 5 years Mr G G White's
record of 20 h 6 min has stood for this distance, but at one attempt Mr Aunger has cut over 5 h off that time. His gross time from capital to capital was 14 h 55 min. The actual driving time was 30 min less owing to delays in crossing Murray River, and in picking up supplies. Upon arrival in Adelaide, Mr Aunger, who was accompanied by Mr F Beasley, was not in any way  distressed by the great strain. The 80 miles [130 km] of Coorong desert sand  were negotiated in under 2 h. Across one 10 mile [15 km] stretch of dried-up lagoon, the speedometer pointed at 80 mph [130 km/h], but the car and  tyres stood the strain well. When travelling at over 70 mph [115 km/h], the  car struck a bad patch of road, and a tyre burst; but this was the only tyre  trouble experienced the trip. Aunger travelled 579 miles [932 km] by road,  track, and desert in 3 h less time than the express takes to cover the  direct 483 miles [778 km] between the two cities.
Place miles driving time sectional/progressive mph | km km/h
Hamilton 203 4.33 45/45 | 327 72/72
Casterton 244 5.49 24/42 | 392 39/68
Millicent (SA) 308 7.43 34/40 | 495 55/64
Kingston 394 9.55 39/40 | 634 63/64
Meningie 486 12.39 34/38 | 782 55/61
Adelaide 579 14.55 41/39 | 932 66/63
[The whole of the 30 min delay must have been in the Kingston - Meningie
section, which took well over 2 h, not the 'under 2 h' mentioned. That is
where the tyre would have burst. I suspect that 'delays crossing the river' was an error].
Mr Aunger left Melbourne at 3.05, and arrived in Adelaide at 17.30 14 h 55  min overall; 14 h 25 min running.
The express left at 16.30, and arrived at 9.55 17 h 55 min overall, but it  stopped to serve locations, and for passengers to enjoy meals, so 16 h 15 min excluding the major stops (but still including the minor ones).
See < http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/28119366>;


Re: : SA pier tramways

Phil Rickard
 

Rod,

Something I forgot to mention. 

You mentioned:  " . . . and even Meningie itself would have been served better from Tailem Bend."    Not so, it seems.  The road/track to Meningie was atrocious for decades after the opening of the Inter-colonial railway through Tailem Bend. Most trade was done by lake steamer to Milang - the postal contract was only lost by the paddle steamers in favour of road from Tailem Bend in 1925. Narrung still received its mail from Milang by steamer until the end of 1928.  I suspect the sandy, low-lying track meandering around salt pans, subject to flooding, on the lakes' eastern shores was a major reason.  The last regular commercial paddle steamer on the Milang-Narrung-Meningie run was ps Jupiter. Without the mail contracts it became an irregular service and finally ceased by early 1931. Jupiter's remains lie in the Port River.

Phil Rickard


Re: : Re: Re:: SA pier tramways

Phil Rickard
 

Rod,

I believe Milang was built as 3ft-gauge with wooden rails topped with iron strapping, in 1856.  It was extended in 1859 when the jetty was lengthened. Extension across Daranda Terrace to Landseer's store in 1868. All lines replaced with 3ft 6in-gauge edge-rails in 1869.  The opening of the SAR to North-West Bend (Morgan) in 1878 severely affected Milang's river trade.  Some years after the arrival of the SAR at Milang in 1884, there was a move by fishermen to have the jetty tramway converted to 5ft 3in-gauge. Read it all in "Milang jetty and tramways" (in prep) for Light Railways

cheers   Phil Rickard

ps. Milang is a jetty, not a pier]


Re: Online Maps again...

Iain
 

Actually Nearmap is fairly current, so current that there are at least two Nearmap image runs that have picked up me and my archaeological projects: fortunately it appears from the images that we are working!

 

The problem lies in areas where Nearmap cannot sell images; which in NSW means roughly anything west of the divide. Six helps and I have found a combination of NSW Globe and Google Earth to provide the best mix although for Burraga curiously it was the aerial on Bing maps that were most useful.

 

Last year there was talk of LPI setting up a system to sell aerial images like Clip and Snip which is what they use to sell digital cadastral and topographic data. It is not clear what had happened to this initiative.

 

Cheers

 

Dr Iain Stuart

 

JCIS Consultants

P.O. Box 2397

Burwood North

NSW 2134

Australia

 

(02) 97010191

Iain_Stuart@...

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Sunday, 8 February 2015 10:22 PM
To: LRRSA
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Online Maps again...

 

 

The best thing about Nearmap was that it was mostly fairly current. Sometimes photos were updated only months apart. The problem with SIX USED to be that it was years out of date. Last time I looked (in the last few months) it showed the land behind my place as it was about 8 years ago. I just had a look at it and the current aerial photo seems to be about 4 months old, so that is excellent. Even Leppington Railway Station is shown ... with tracks! I'm sure someone here will be able to look at their home or area they are familiar with and pin down something that they can see that can more accurately date the photo. Of course, that is not to say the whole state gets done on the same day, and probably not even all Sydney gets/got done on the same day.

 

On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Mark Kendrick trainbrain@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

Hi all,
This might be old news, however for those who haven't heard Google
Earth Pro is now free:
https://geoauth.google.com/gev0/free_trial.html
Don't fill in the form, use the download link in the orange box. License
Key is GEPFREE

There is also the NSW government maps/aerial photos viewer:
https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/
Far better than Google Earth on my brief comparisons, as good as NearMap
by memory.
Which also contains a range of 1943 aerial photographs of Sydney, check
under Basemaps menu.

Regards,
Mark K



 

--

Cheers,
Kevin

I’ve reached an age where my train of thought often leaves the station without me.


Re: : Re: Re:: SA pier tramways

Roderick Smith
 

That's interesting for Milang: the tramway wasn't rebuilt when the railway arrived (1884 or 1887).  All cargo had to be double handled, but by then the amount would have been cut.  Milang - Meningie was the Melbourne and south-east mail route from 1866 to 1875 with one boat, then a successor until the importance was diminished: the bridge at Murray Bridge (1879); and the completion of the Melbourne railway (1887), which had connections to the major south-east towns.  I am not sure when the Kingston branch was opened, and even Meningie itself would have been served better from Tailem Bend.


Roderick B Smith

Rail News Victoria Editor



Re: : SA pier tramways

rthorne475
 

Roderick,

To enlarge on the subject of South Australian jetty railways: I have a list of jetties dated 1915 and virtually all railways were 3' 6" gauge.  However, wharves served by SAR 5' 3" gauge railways were also 5' 3" gauge (Victor Harbor, Port Adelaide, Outer Harbour, Murray Bridge and Goolwa).  For some reason, Port MacDonnell and Robe jetties were also 5' 3" gauge, while Cape de Couedic, Glenelg and Semaphore were 2' 6" gauge and Yankalilla (Normanville) was 4' 0" gauge.  It should be noted that Glenleg had earlier used 5' 3" gauge when the line was connected to the railway and Semaphore had an intermediate period also using 5' 3" gauge.  The trolley pole electric railway cranes on the very edge of Murray Bridge wharf were 3' 0" gauge.

The almost universal gauge of 3' 6" allowed a standard design of jetty truck to be used and I attach my drawing of this, based on an original large drawing from the South Australian Engineer-in-Chief's Office, dated 1882.  You may have noticed this style of truck in use in many jetties, in photos, up to the 1960s (and doubtless more recently).

The Marine Board commenced in 1881, becoming the South Australian Harbors (sic) Board in 1913, which in turn became the Department of Marine & Harbors in 1966.  I wouldn't be surprised if it has changed again since then.

Richard Horne



From: "rodsmith@... [LRRSA]"
To: LRRSA@...
Sent: Sunday, 8 February 2015, 7:43
Subject: [LRRSA] Re:: SA pier tramways

 
Oops, as posted the questions require you to stitch the url together, and post people won't.  Here is a clickable version:
0 Attachment
    What is the verdict of the gauge for this one? Milang ~1870 (ie predating the 1600 mm gauge railway).
    <www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=411973708964404&set=oa.358035904399851&type=1&theater>

    Milang, suposedly 1922, but I guess ~1910:
    <www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=412029405625501&set=gm.358084874394954&type=1&theater>

    Roderick B Smith
    Rail News Victoria Editor




    Re: Online Maps again...

    Kevin Sewell
     

    The best thing about Nearmap was that it was mostly fairly current. Sometimes photos were updated only months apart. The problem with SIX USED to be that it was years out of date. Last time I looked (in the last few months) it showed the land behind my place as it was about 8 years ago. I just had a look at it and the current aerial photo seems to be about 4 months old, so that is excellent. Even Leppington Railway Station is shown ... with tracks! I'm sure someone here will be able to look at their home or area they are familiar with and pin down something that they can see that can more accurately date the photo. Of course, that is not to say the whole state gets done on the same day, and probably not even all Sydney gets/got done on the same day.

    On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 2:31 PM, Mark Kendrick trainbrain@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
     

    Hi all,
    This might be old news, however for those who haven't heard Google
    Earth Pro is now free:
    https://geoauth.google.com/gev0/free_trial.html
    Don't fill in the form, use the download link in the orange box. License
    Key is GEPFREE

    There is also the NSW government maps/aerial photos viewer:
    https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/
    Far better than Google Earth on my brief comparisons, as good as NearMap
    by memory.
    Which also contains a range of 1943 aerial photographs of Sydney, check
    under Basemaps menu.

    Regards,
    Mark K




    --
    Cheers,
    Kevin

    I’ve reached an age where my train of thought often leaves the station without me.


    Re: : SA pier tramways

    rthorne475
     

    3ft 6in gauge at Milang.

    Richard Horn e



    From: "rodsmith@... [LRRSA]"
    To: LRRSA@...
    Sent: Sunday, 8 February 2015, 7:43
    Subject: [LRRSA] Re:: SA pier tramways

     
    Oops, as posted the questions require you to stitch the url together, and post people won't.  Here is a clickable version:
    0 Attachment
      What is the verdict of the gauge for this one? Milang ~1870 (ie predating the 1600 mm gauge railway).
      <www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=411973708964404&set=oa.358035904399851&type=1&theater>

      Milang, suposedly 1922, but I guess ~1910:
      <www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=412029405625501&set=gm.358084874394954&type=1&theater>

      Roderick B Smith
      Rail News Victoria Editor




      Re: : SA pier tramways

      Roderick Smith
       

      Oops, as posted the questions require you to stitch the url together, and post people won't.  Here is a clickable version:

      0 Attachment

        What is the verdict of the gauge for this one? Milang ~1870 (ie predating the 1600 mm gauge railway).
        <www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=411973708964404&set=oa.358035904399851&type=1&theater>

        Milang, suposedly 1922, but I guess ~1910:
        <www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=412029405625501&set=gm.358084874394954&type=1&theater>

        Roderick B Smith
        Rail News Victoria Editor


        SA pier tramways

        Roderick Smith
         

        What is the verdict of the gauge for this one? Milang ~1870 (ie predating
        the 1600 mm gauge railway).
        https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=411973708964404&set=oa.3580359043998
        51&type=1&theater

        Milang, supossedly 1922, but I guess ~1910:
        https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=412029405625501&set=gm.3580848743949
        54&type=1&theater

        Roderick B Smith
        Rail News Victoria Editor


        Re: Online Maps again...

        Ray Miller <raymond.f.miller@...>
         

        Thanks Mark- interesting find!

         

        The Queensland version is available here (for those unaware):

         

        Similar to the NSW ‘globe’ it contains:

         

        “Inside Queensland Globe you are able to access maps, data and imagery of Queensland, including Queensland Government-owned data and data used under licence from other parties.

        Some of the layers you can choose to view include:

        • places (e.g. population centre, suburb)
        • boundaries (e.g. coastline, local government, electorate, postcode)
        • roads (e.g. arterial road, minor road)
        • rail (e.g. railway line, railway station)
        • transport (e.g. ferry, mall, busway, path, track)
        • addresses
        • land parcel (e.g. property boundary, property label)
        • land parcel tenures (e.g. freehold, national park, state forest, state land).”

         

        The feature for me is accurate, up to date property boundaries (sourced from the live Digital Cadastral Database- DCDB) and current hi res imagery- far superior to Google in most cases.

         

        Download and opening instruction here:

         

        https://www.business.qld.gov.au/business/support-tools-grants/services/mapping-data-imagery/queensland-globe/install-mac-pc

         

         

         

        From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
        Sent: Sunday, 8 February 2015 1:32 PM
        To: LRRSA@...
        Subject: [LRRSA] Online Maps again...

         

         

        Hi all,
        This might be old news, however for those who haven't heard Google
        Earth Pro is now free:
        https://geoauth.google.com/gev0/free_trial.html
        Don't fill in the form, use the download link in the orange box. License
        Key is GEPFREE

        There is also the NSW government maps/aerial photos viewer:
        https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/
        Far better than Google Earth on my brief comparisons, as good as NearMap
        by memory.
        Which also contains a range of 1943 aerial photographs of Sydney, check
        under Basemaps menu.

        Regards,
        Mark K


        Photos of the K1 Garratt in Manchester

        Michael C.
         

        Dear all,
         
        I have uploaded a collection of photos to Flickr showing the K1 Garratt when she visited Manchester back in 2009.
         
        Take a look if you're interested.
         
         
        Cheers,
         
        Michael Chapman

        Follow the Welsh Highland Heritage Railway on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/WHHRly
        Follow my railway adventures on Flickr at http://tinyurl.com/nlvlnmt


        Online Maps again...

        Mark Trainbrain
         

        Hi all,
        This might be old news, however for those who haven't heard Google Earth Pro is now free:
        https://geoauth.google.com/gev0/free_trial.html
        Don't fill in the form, use the download link in the orange box. License Key is GEPFREE


        There is also the NSW government maps/aerial photos viewer:
        https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/
        Far better than Google Earth on my brief comparisons, as good as NearMap by memory.
        Which also contains a range of 1943 aerial photographs of Sydney, check under Basemaps menu.

        Regards,
        Mark K


        Re: Victorian Online Interactive Heritage map

        Frank Stamford
         

        Hermes No.12561 appears to be the entire known routes of the McIvor Timber & Firewood Company's tramway, and Penrose & Oddy's tramway.

        Frank



        On 7 Feb 2015, at 11:52 am, "John Cleverdon johnc@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:

         

        Hello all,
        Something that may be of interest to those in Victoria in particular.

        There is now an online interactive map where you can see the locations of Victorian Heritage Register/Inventory sites.
        Go to: http://services.land.vic.gov.au/maps/hermes.jsp and you can search by Hermes number (the number on the Victorian Heritage Database website) or simply zoom in to an area of interest and select a site.
        Once you use the 'i' button to select a heritage site, you can then follow a link to the Victorian Heritage Database website.

        The Victorian Heritage Register has a several 'heavy rail' features (stations and bridges).

        I'm not sure how many 'light railway' features there are although a quick look reveals a few timber mill sites in the Powelltown region are on the Victorian Heritage Database.

        Regards,
        John

        --
        John Cleverdon
        Mornington Peninsula, Victoria, Australia
        John's web page: http://users.cdi.com.au/~johnc/
        LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/pub/john-cleverdon/a/a81/2b


        Victorian Online Interactive Heritage map

        John Cleverdon <johnc@...>
         

        Hello all,
        Something that may be of interest to those in Victoria in particular.

        There is now an online interactive map where you can see the locations of Victorian Heritage Register/Inventory sites.
        Go to: http://services.land.vic.gov.au/maps/hermes.jsp and you can search by Hermes number (the number on the Victorian Heritage Database website) or simply zoom in to an area of interest and select a site.
        Once you use the 'i' button to select a heritage site, you can then follow a link to the Victorian Heritage Database website.

        The Victorian Heritage Register has a several 'heavy rail' features (stations and bridges).

        I'm not sure how many 'light railway' features there are although a quick look reveals a few timber mill sites in the Powelltown region are on the Victorian Heritage Database.

        Regards,
        John
        --
        John Cleverdon
        Mornington Peninsula, Victoria, Australia
        John's web page: http://users.cdi.com.au/~johnc/
        LinkedIn: http://au.linkedin.com/pub/john-cleverdon/a/a81/2b

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