Date   

Blessington (Tas.) Ex-TGR ASG front tank

Roderick Smith
 

One group solved the tank; another solved the location.
Upper Blessington Rd near Foleys Rd (Blessington, Tas.): Ex-TGR ASG front tank at a sawmill.  Sat.31.8.85.  (Roderick Smith)
Modifications show that it was TGR, not EBR.
That is also consistent with the location.
We had come from Evandale to Ben Lomond to ski, but the the weather was vile and we abandoned the plan.
With a day to fill, we decided on as east-coast circuit.
Hence, at the T junction we turned right for Blessington, Upper Blessington, Upper Esk and Mathinna to Fingal, then to St Marys, St Helens, Legerwood, Scottsdale and on to Devonport for the night for Don River Railway next day.
The tank would have been a surprise, but quite obvious from the road.
I am not finding the sawmill on Google Earth today; it may well have vanished over 30 years.

Roderick

"850831Sa-XJ07-Blessington-exTGR-ASG.tank-RSmith-s.jpg"
"850831Sa-XJ07a-Blessington-exTGR-ASG.tank-RSmith-ss.jpg" 


The Gurdies (Vic.) steam loco?

Roderick Smith
 

The text mentions a steam loco, but it doesn't show in the photos.
If it is a loco, which and from where?
It could be a steam traction engine.
Indeed, a portable engine shows in the photos in the main listing.




Roderick


ASG tank (Tas.)

Roderick Smith
 

Almost certainly this photo is between Stanley and Burnie: but where?
We have a lot of ASG interest in the group.
Somebody may well know, or have their own photo, or a document which lists it.

I am trying several groups.

All help will be appreciated,

Roderick

850830F-XJ07-unknown.location-ASG.tank-RSmith-ss.jpg


Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

Frank Stamford
 

A little update on this project.

The pioneering Adelaide steam tram motor will be included. The author has just completed the drawings which I have seen. There are drawings of each end, and two side views, one with the outside casing removed to show the inner workings. It is a great addition to the book as it is the only use of canary colour, and the only vertical-boilered locomotive in the book!

The final layout of the book is now about to commence, and it is hoped it will go to the printer around March next year. 

Regards,
Frank


Light Railways 270

John Dennis
 

Light Railways 270 was delivered to the Post Office on Friday morning, so should be dropping into letterboxes early this week. It looks like another cracking issue, highlighted by a lengthy article discussing the gunpowder tramways of Melbourne. Contents are:
- Sleeping on a volcano - The gunpowder magazines of Melbourne and their tramways(Vic)
- Rockhampton Harbour Board locomotive (QLD)
- Rubicon pioneer’s picnic (Vic)
- Industrial Railway News - 14 items from around Australia and Fiji
- Field Reports - The Port Kembla No.2 Colliery (NSW); Sir John Franklin incline, Gooleys Creek (Vic)
- Heritage & Tourist News - 12 items from Australia
- Back cover photos: G42 working on the Beech Forest narrow gauge branch (Vic)

If you are not a member you should be able to purchase LR270 at your local newsagent shortly (that timeframe is out of our hands), or you can buy online from the LRRSA Shop,
https://shop.lrrsa.org.au/Light-Railways-No270-December-2019 for the printed version, https://shop.lrrsa.org.au/Light-Railways-No270-December-201… for the downloadable PDF.


Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

Geoffrey Hansen
 

Interesting. I never knew that the Tramway had a vertical boiler steam engine.


From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> on behalf of rthorne475 via Groups.Io <rthorne475@...>
Sent: Friday, November 1, 2019 10:05:58 AM
To: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.
 
It was ordered by the Adelaide Unley & Mitcham Tramway Co. through Arkell, Tufts & Co., New York Export Agents.  Numbered 1, it was sold in November 1883 to the Parramatta Tramway of Sydney Ferries, where it survived to the late 1930s.  It had a vertical boiler and I'm sure you've seen photos of it there, Frank.
Cheers, Richard

On Thursday, 31 October 2019, 22:42:45 GMT, John Dennis <jdennis412@...> wrote:


The Adelaide steam motor is mentioned in Bruce Macdonald's book: Baldwin 4343 of 1878. As Richard says, described as "painted canary yellow". 

John

On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 23:40, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:
Hello Richard,

It will include the Sydney Baldwin steam tram motors, and the Bendigo and Belmont Shire (Brisbane) steam tram motors. 

It does not include the Adelaide one because that was unknown to the author (and to me). Do you have any more information about it?

Regards,
Frank


On 31 Oct 2019, at 10:26 pm, rthorne475 via Groups.Io <rthorne475@...> wrote:

Will it include the Baldwin built Sydney steam trams and the single Adelaide one?  The latter was painted canary yellow.

Richard Horne

On Thursday, 31 October 2019, 10:14:17 GMT, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:


Hello all,
The LRRSA is proposing to publish a book titled "Australia's Colourful American Locomotives" by David Fletcher. The book is sub-titled "Their art and architecture 1870-1920". The book describes how architecture influenced the design and liveries of American locomotives in the nineteenth century, and includes about seventy detailed scale drawings showing the liveries of the locomotives, as delivered to Australia, in full colour.
All known types of American locomotive delivered new to Australia from 1870 to 1920 are included, except Shay and Climax geared locomotives.
The book will be in landscape format, with about 160 A3 size pages (420 x 297 mm). As this will be an expensive project the LRRSA is seeking expressions of interest from those likely to purchase a copy. The pre-publication price will probably be about $95, and the print run may be limited to the number of expressions of interest received.
You can register your interest by going to the LRRSA website: www.lrrsa.org.au
You can see a preview video about the book here: https://youtu.be/uU2dpTfhVMc

Frank Stamford (LRRSA Publications Officer)

 

 


Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book. - Parramatta SFL Steam Motor 2 and trailer at Parramatta Park Gatehouse c1890.jpg - Parramatta SFL Steam Motor 2 at Redbank 1938.jpg - Parramatta Prk Gatehouse Locality map.jpg

Bill Bolton <billbolton@...>
 

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 15:44:29 +0000 (UTC), you wrote:

Here's a photo of motor 31A at the depot. The Tudor Gateway, visible
across O'Connell St., clearly identifies the location of the depot yard.
Thanks Richard, that's a great photo.

I finally found Tony Smith's post.

From looking at the SIX maps and sliding back and forth between the
current and 1943 maps, even allowing for a slight misalignment it is
very clear that the southbound traffic lanes of present day O'Connell
St occupy most of the ground where the SFL yard was located.

The present day Court *building* is set back from O'Connell St and
does not sit at all on the former tramway formation as far as it is
discernable on the 1943 map.

The physical "shaved" corner where the tracks turned into the yard is
now the actual street corner..... I travel through this location twice
a week and know it well.

Attached is a locality map for the former Gate House Hotel, which
shows the tram line.

Cheers,

Bill

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia


Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

Frank Stamford
 

Thank you to all who have registered your interest.

As a result of the responses received so far the LRRSA has decided to proceed with this project.


If you have not yet registered your interest, and are likely to want a copy, you should register now so that you can take advantage of the pre-publication price. We will not be seeking payment until sometime next year, depending on when the layout is ready to print.
You can register at www.lrrsa.org.au

With regard to the Adelaide steam tram motor, the book's text will be modified to mention it, and the author is currently checking to see if enough information is available to produce a coloured drawing.

Frank


Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book. - Parramatta SFL Steam Motor 2 and trailer at Parramatta Park Gatehouse c1890.jpg - Parramatta SFL Steam Motor 2 at Redbank 1938.jpg

rthorne475
 

Here's a photo of motor 31A at the depot. The Tudor Gateway, visible across O'Connell St., clearly identifies the location of the depot yard.

Richard Horne

On Friday, 8 November 2019, 01:16:05 GMT, Bill Bolton <billbolton@...> wrote:


On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 10:13:35 -0800, Terry wrote:

> I agree with Tony's observation that the terminal loop was on
> land to the side of O'Connell Street.

It seems that you and others are still posting to the Yahoo groups
email address, and I can't see "Tony's observations" at the Groups.io
web site.

Anyway, does anyone have a track map for the Redbank tramway?

Meanwhile here is a photo, via Ian Saxon, of SFL 2 at Redbank circa
1938.

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia



Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book. - Parramatta SFL Steam Motor 2 and trailer at Parramatta Park Gatehouse c1890.jpg - Parramatta SFL Steam Motor 2 at Redbank 1938.jpg

rthorne475
 

Bill,

For a track map of the line see page 56 of Bruce Macdonald's recent book 'The Steam Tram in Australia & Mew Zealand' (Eveleigh Press 2018).  There is a good early photo of the depot, with O'Connell St in the foreground on page 57...and lots of other fascinating photos of the line, too.

Cheers,

Richard Horne

On Friday, 8 November 2019, 01:16:05 GMT, Bill Bolton <billbolton@...> wrote:


On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 10:13:35 -0800, Terry wrote:

> I agree with Tony's observation that the terminal loop was on
> land to the side of O'Connell Street.

It seems that you and others are still posting to the Yahoo groups
email address, and I can't see "Tony's observations" at the Groups.io
web site.

Anyway, does anyone have a track map for the Redbank tramway?

Meanwhile here is a photo, via Ian Saxon, of SFL 2 at Redbank circa
1938.

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia



Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book. - Parramatta SFL Steam Motor 2 and trailer at Parramatta Park Gatehouse c1890.jpg - Parramatta SFL Steam Motor 2 at Redbank 1938.jpg

John Dennis
 

Bill,

All the posts on this topic have been via groups.io - there have been no posts to the defunct yahoo group since that little flurry a couple of weeks ago when people become concerned about yahoo groups soing away, despite this group being moved across in May last year. 

John

On Fri, 8 Nov 2019 at 12:16, Bill Bolton <billbolton@...> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 10:13:35 -0800, Terry wrote:

> I agree with Tony's observation that the terminal loop was on
> land to the side of O'Connell Street.

It seems that you and others are still posting to the Yahoo groups
email address, and I can't see "Tony's observations" at the Groups.io
web site.

Anyway, does anyone have a track map for the Redbank tramway?

Meanwhile here is a photo, via Ian Saxon, of SFL 2 at Redbank circa
1938.

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia




Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book. - Parramatta SFL Steam Motor 2 and trailer at Parramatta Park Gatehouse c1890.jpg - Parramatta SFL Steam Motor 2 at Redbank 1938.jpg

Bill Bolton <billbolton@...>
 

On Thu, 07 Nov 2019 10:13:35 -0800, Terry wrote:

I agree with Tony's observation that the terminal loop was on
land to the side of O'Connell Street.
It seems that you and others are still posting to the Yahoo groups
email address, and I can't see "Tony's observations" at the Groups.io
web site.

Anyway, does anyone have a track map for the Redbank tramway?

Meanwhile here is a photo, via Ian Saxon, of SFL 2 at Redbank circa
1938.

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia


Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book. - Parramatta SFL Steam Motor 2 and trailer at Parramatta Park Gatehouse c1890.jpg

Terry
 
Edited

I agree with Tony's observation that the terminal loop was on land to the side of O'Connell Street.
I can still remember watching trams running around in the loop and shunting at the (Domain) Park Gates terminus.
I do not recall a stub terminal in George Street as mentioned by Bill Bolton and a loop would have been necessary for the runaround and to facilitate shunting the nearby Meggitts Linseed Oil Factory site on the other (Southern) side of George Street.
While the points of the track leading into the factory are not visible in the photograph these were located about the bottom of the picture and led to its left and were trailing for trams proceeding from Redbank to Park Gates.
The terminal loop site was vacant for a long time after trams ceased running and rails of parts of the nearby sidings within Megitts were subsequently visible for many years after the factory was dismantled and until the construction of the Commonwealth Law Courts on that site.
There is local speculation that there are still tramway rails under parts of George Street. 
Terry Boardman
Queenscliff


Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book. - Parramatta SFL Steam Motor 2 and trailer at Parramatta Park Gatehouse c1890.jpg

Tony Smith
 

Looking at the Six Maps 1943 images shows the tram tracks turning not into O'Connell street, but into a terminal loop actually on the lot of land now occupied by the Parramatta Children's Court. This lot on the corner of George St and OConnell St was the original Depot for the trams. The "shaved" intersection you describe was a narrow peninsula of land that separated the loop from O'Connell St. While the Loop was part of the land the Children's Court is on, the "pensinsula" was resumed to become part of a wider O'Connell  St.

As the SFL trams ceased in March 1943, the Six Maps images show that the turn towards O'Connell St remained right to the end of the line (in both respects!)

On Wednesday, 6 November 2019, 11:46:07 am AEDT, Bill Bolton <billbolton@...> wrote:


Attached is another small photo of SFL 2 with an open platform trailer
at the Parramatta Park Gatehouse circa 1890.  The photo has come via a
NSW State archive, but I am uncertain exactly what the exact
provenance is.

Every other SFL tram shot I have seen at this location just showed a
stub terminal on George Street, so another surprise for me was that
the tracks once turned onto O'Connell Street.... though it does
explain why the Northern corner of that intersection is somewhat
"shaved", right through to this day!

BTW, George St Parramatta becomes bidirectional again from the end of
November 2019.

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia



Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book. - Parramatta SFL Steam Motor 2 and trailer at Parramatta Park Gatehouse c1890.jpg

Bill Bolton <billbolton@...>
 

Attached is another small photo of SFL 2 with an open platform trailer
at the Parramatta Park Gatehouse circa 1890. The photo has come via a
NSW State archive, but I am uncertain exactly what the exact
provenance is.

Every other SFL tram shot I have seen at this location just showed a
stub terminal on George Street, so another surprise for me was that
the tracks once turned onto O'Connell Street.... though it does
explain why the Northern corner of that intersection is somewhat
"shaved", right through to this day!

BTW, George St Parramatta becomes bidirectional again from the end of
November 2019.

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia


Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

Frank Stamford
 

Hello Bill,

The Register is available on Trove, but you won't find it listed under "R" !

It is listed under "S" - South Australian Register 1839-1900. And it is a very good resource,

That is a very nice looking horse tram that you have given the link to below:

<https://www.flickriver.com/photos/intervene/4208462170/>

Regards,
Frank

On 4/11/2019 10:17 am, Bill Bolton wrote:
On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:11:22 +1100, Frank wrote:

I am hoping to find the time to do a little more exploring of
Adelaide newspapers to find out more about this locomotive and its
owners.
There is an intriguing entry on a SA State Library web page, regarding
the 'Adelaide to Unley and Mitcham Tramway'.

"while a meeting called to consider the use of steam motors is
reported on
30 September 1879, page 5a; also see
29 November 1879 (supp.), page 2b."

The journal concerned is "The Register", which unfortunately is not
available through Trove.

See <http://www.slsa.ha.sa.gov.au/manning/pn/m/mitcham.htm>

I have found the Baldwin specification sheet for the locomotive, and
against "Color" it says "Canary", but there is a question mark after it!
The horse tram rolling stock liveries in Adelaide often incorporated a
bright yellow colour, so this would be consistent. See....
<https://www.flickriver.com/photos/intervene/4208462170/>

And thank you Richard for the two photographs.
Yes, very interesting!

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia



Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

Bill Bolton <billbolton@...>
 

On Sun, 3 Nov 2019 22:11:22 +1100, Frank wrote:

I am hoping to find the time to do a little more exploring of
Adelaide newspapers to find out more about this locomotive and its
owners.
There is an intriguing entry on a SA State Library web page, regarding
the 'Adelaide to Unley and Mitcham Tramway'.

"while a meeting called to consider the use of steam motors is
reported on
30 September 1879, page 5a; also see
29 November 1879 (supp.), page 2b."

The journal concerned is "The Register", which unfortunately is not
available through Trove.

See <http://www.slsa.ha.sa.gov.au/manning/pn/m/mitcham.htm>

I have found the Baldwin specification sheet for the locomotive, and
against "Color" it says "Canary", but there is a question mark after it!
The horse tram rolling stock liveries in Adelaide often incorporated a
bright yellow colour, so this would be consistent. See....
<https://www.flickriver.com/photos/intervene/4208462170/>

And thank you Richard for the two photographs.
Yes, very interesting!

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia


Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

Frank Stamford
 

This has been an extremely interesting discussion which has brought some life back into this group!

Trove is indeed a wonderful resource which seems to be frequently leading to a revision of long held beliefs.

I am hoping to find the time to do a little more exploring of Adelaide newspapers to find out more about this locomotive and its owners.

I have found the Baldwin specification sheet for the locomotive, and against "Color" it says "Canary", but there is a question mark after it!

It would appear that this was a very early example of a Baldwin steam tram motor, and some of its design features were of a transitional nature leading towards the successful Sydney design. The vertical boiler harked back to the (very recent) past), the horizontal cylinders looked to the future.

And thank you Richard for the two photographs.

Frank


Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

rthorne475
 

Dear Bill,

Brilliant.  The wonders of Trove.  And thank you very much for correcting me with this additional, fascinating information.

Cheers,

Richard

On Sunday, 3 November 2019, 09:46:49 GMT, Bill Bolton <billbolton@...> wrote:


On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 11:07:23 +0000 (UTC), Richard wrote:

> 'Trolley Wire' was totally incorrect in the reason it gave for
> the motor's withdrawal from use.

John Radcliffe is generally regarded as a very reliable source for
information on Adelaide trams.

> Its run on 7th February was its first and last.

Apparently not. According to the article below..... "The Motor, which
we described in our issue of Friday, has made several experimental
trips of a private character....."

"THE ADELAIDE AND MITCHAM TRAMWAY. (The South Australian Advertiser,
Mon 10 Feb 1879, Page 6)

A public trial of the Baldwin steam motor, which the Adelaide and
Mitcham Tramway Company intend using on their tramway, took
place on Friday afternoon, February 7. The Motor, which we described
in our issue of Friday, *has made several experimental trips of a
private character, but a special trial of its powers was arranged for
the 7th instant, to give the Mayor and members of the City Corporation
an opportunity of witnessing its capabilities. The Company, it
appears, have to obtain the consent of the Mayor to the running of
steam motors within the streets of the city ,hence their anxiety to
prove that the machine in question is in every way suitable for the
work for which it was designed. Shortly after three o'clock the Mayor
(Mr. C. Buik), the City Surveyver and Town Clerk, several Councillors
and ex-Councillors, the Chairman and members of the Mitcham District
Council, and representatives of the Unley Corporation, assembled in
Flinders street, where the motor was attached to one of the Company's
carriages."

There is a lot more text to the article which can be viewed here....
<https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29368103>


> Although successful, the Adelaide City Council demanded such an
> expensive licence for the Company to run it in regular service that
> it remained unused.

The company reported TWO reasons, not solely the licence fee....

ADELAIDE, UNLEY, AND MITCHAM, TRAMWAY COMPANY. (The South Australian
Advertiser, Sat 14 Jun 1879, Page 13)

"The steam motor imported by the Company was successfully used on the
line for some time, but as the City Council demanded £103 before they
would allow it to enter the city, and as also some popular prejudice
against the use of steam on public roads remains to be overcome, your
Directors deemed it expedient to discontinue its use for the present,
and will wait the result of the trial of other engines which are
being imported far other tramlines before deciding on the rival merits
of steam aud horse. There is no doubt that if steam were entirely
used a great saving would be effected, and traffic could be largely
increased."

There is a lot more text to the article which can be viewed here....
<https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29371977>


Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia



Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

Bill Bolton <billbolton@...>
 

On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 11:07:23 +0000 (UTC), Richard wrote:

'Trolley Wire' was totally incorrect in the reason it gave for
the motor's withdrawal from use.
John Radcliffe is generally regarded as a very reliable source for
information on Adelaide trams.

 Its run on 7th February was its first and last.
Apparently not. According to the article below..... "The Motor, which
we described in our issue of Friday, has made several experimental
trips of a private character....."

"THE ADELAIDE AND MITCHAM TRAMWAY. (The South Australian Advertiser,
Mon 10 Feb 1879, Page 6)

A public trial of the Baldwin steam motor, which the Adelaide and
Mitcham Tramway Company intend using on their tramway, took
place on Friday afternoon, February 7. The Motor, which we described
in our issue of Friday, *has made several experimental trips of a
private character, but a special trial of its powers was arranged for
the 7th instant, to give the Mayor and members of the City Corporation
an opportunity of witnessing its capabilities. The Company, it
appears, have to obtain the consent of the Mayor to the running of
steam motors within the streets of the city ,hence their anxiety to
prove that the machine in question is in every way suitable for the
work for which it was designed. Shortly after three o'clock the Mayor
(Mr. C. Buik), the City Surveyver and Town Clerk, several Councillors
and ex-Councillors, the Chairman and members of the Mitcham District
Council, and representatives of the Unley Corporation, assembled in
Flinders street, where the motor was attached to one of the Company's
carriages."

There is a lot more text to the article which can be viewed here....
<https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29368103>


Although successful, the Adelaide City Council demanded such an
expensive licence for the Company to run it in regular service that
it remained unused.
The company reported TWO reasons, not solely the licence fee....

ADELAIDE, UNLEY, AND MITCHAM, TRAMWAY COMPANY. (The South Australian
Advertiser, Sat 14 Jun 1879, Page 13)

"The steam motor imported by the Company was successfully used on the
line for some time, but as the City Council demanded £103 before they
would allow it to enter the city, and as also some popular prejudice
against the use of steam on public roads remains to be overcome, your
Directors deemed it expedient to discontinue its use for the present,
and will wait the result of the trial of other engines which are
being imported far other tramlines before deciding on the rival merits
of steam aud horse. There is no doubt that if steam were entirely
used a great saving would be effected, and traffic could be largely
increased."

There is a lot more text to the article which can be viewed here....
<https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29371977>


Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia