Date   
Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

Bill Bolton <billbolton@...>
 

On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 11:07:23 +0000 (UTC), Richard wrote:

'Trolley Wire' was totally incorrect in the reason it gave for
the motor's withdrawal from use.
John Radcliffe is generally regarded as a very reliable source for
information on Adelaide trams.

 Its run on 7th February was its first and last.
Apparently not. According to the article below..... "The Motor, which
we described in our issue of Friday, has made several experimental
trips of a private character....."

"THE ADELAIDE AND MITCHAM TRAMWAY. (The South Australian Advertiser,
Mon 10 Feb 1879, Page 6)

A public trial of the Baldwin steam motor, which the Adelaide and
Mitcham Tramway Company intend using on their tramway, took
place on Friday afternoon, February 7. The Motor, which we described
in our issue of Friday, *has made several experimental trips of a
private character, but a special trial of its powers was arranged for
the 7th instant, to give the Mayor and members of the City Corporation
an opportunity of witnessing its capabilities. The Company, it
appears, have to obtain the consent of the Mayor to the running of
steam motors within the streets of the city ,hence their anxiety to
prove that the machine in question is in every way suitable for the
work for which it was designed. Shortly after three o'clock the Mayor
(Mr. C. Buik), the City Surveyver and Town Clerk, several Councillors
and ex-Councillors, the Chairman and members of the Mitcham District
Council, and representatives of the Unley Corporation, assembled in
Flinders street, where the motor was attached to one of the Company's
carriages."

There is a lot more text to the article which can be viewed here....
<https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29368103>


Although successful, the Adelaide City Council demanded such an
expensive licence for the Company to run it in regular service that
it remained unused.
The company reported TWO reasons, not solely the licence fee....

ADELAIDE, UNLEY, AND MITCHAM, TRAMWAY COMPANY. (The South Australian
Advertiser, Sat 14 Jun 1879, Page 13)

"The steam motor imported by the Company was successfully used on the
line for some time, but as the City Council demanded £103 before they
would allow it to enter the city, and as also some popular prejudice
against the use of steam on public roads remains to be overcome, your
Directors deemed it expedient to discontinue its use for the present,
and will wait the result of the trial of other engines which are
being imported far other tramlines before deciding on the rival merits
of steam aud horse. There is no doubt that if steam were entirely
used a great saving would be effected, and traffic could be largely
increased."

There is a lot more text to the article which can be viewed here....
<https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/29371977>


Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia

Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

rthorne475
 

Bill,

'Trolley Wire' was totally incorrect in the reason it gave for the motor's withdrawal from use.  Its run on 7th February was its first and last.  Although successful, the Adelaide City Council demanded such an expensive licence for the Company to run it in regular service that it remained unused.  I've not seen any report of this single trip that mentioned objections from the upper deck passengers (who would all have been invited guests if there were, indeed, any).  The plans for the tramway submitted to parliament showed extensions of the line to quarries above Mitcham and the motor may well have been bought partly with the intention that it would haul wagons of building stone to Adelaide.  The quarry lines were not built.

Two photos of the motor are attached: when running in Parramatta and when derelict, stripped of its cab and so showing its innards.

Cheers,

Richard

On Saturday, 2 November 2019, 09:00:43 GMT, Bill Bolton <billbolton@...> wrote:


On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 19:07:06 +1100, you wrote:

> I googled Adelaide Baldwin steam tram motor and it lead me to a couple
> of Trove newspaper references.

See also "Trolley Wire", June 1978

"The Mitcham Company had also imported a Baldwin steam motor but its
use aroused considerable objection from upper-deck passengers and
passers-by. It was abandoned within a few months and after a period of
storage was sold to Sydney Ferries who used it from 1885 to 1937."

Cheers,

Bill

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia


Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

Bill Bolton <billbolton@...>
 

On Sat, 2 Nov 2019 19:07:06 +1100, you wrote:

I googled Adelaide Baldwin steam tram motor and it lead me to a couple
of Trove newspaper references.
See also "Trolley Wire", June 1978

"The Mitcham Company had also imported a Baldwin steam motor but its
use aroused considerable objection from upper-deck passengers and
passers-by. It was abandoned within a few months and after a period of
storage was sold to Sydney Ferries who used it from 1885 to 1937."

Cheers,

Bill

Bill Bolton
Sydney, Australia

Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

Frank Stamford
 


Thank you Richard.

Thanks for that information. I have done a detailed check of the content of the proposed book, and that appears to be the only locomotive that is missing. But not every variation has an A3 size drawing, that would make the book too big. For example, only one Sydney steam tram motor appears as a drawing, and where there were Vauclain compound and simple versions of a locomotive, there is usually only one drawing.

I googled Adelaide Baldwin steam tram motor and it lead me to a couple of Trove newspaper references. This one is from "The Express and Telegraph" of Friday 7 February 1879, p.2:

The Adelaide and, Mitcham Tramway Company having recently imported from the Baldwin Locomotive Works, Philadelphia, a noiseless steam motor for use on their new line of rails, had an experimental trial on Saturday afternoon, February 1. Wood was used to raise the steam, but it was found unsuitable, so it was arranged for a second trial, which took place on Wednesday afternoon, February 5. The result of the second trial, when coke was used, was in every way satisfactory, the little locomotive being found to be very powerful.

It is fitted with steam breaks, feed pump and injector, and weighs six and a quarter tons. The boiler is constructed of steel, and is of the vertical type, and will, it is said, bear a " breaking strain" of about 900 lbs. to the square inch, but when in operation a pressure of from 80 to 120 lbs. per square inch is only required.

There are two outside horizontal cylinders which communicate the motion by connecting- rods, which take hold of wrist-pins on the outside of the wheels. The wearing parts of the machinery are made of steel, case-hardened iron, and bronze metal, so as to render them extremely durable. There is also an appliance by which the noise; of the exhaust steam is muffled, whilst there is a firebox for the prevention of smoke.

The motor can be driven up to a speed of fifteen miles per hour with one or two cars attached, and the wheels are so made as to reduce to a minimum any danger of running off the lines. It is expected that the motor will effect a great saving when compared with horse traction.



Regards,
Frank


On 1/11/2019 10:05 am, rthorne475 via Groups.Io wrote:
It was ordered by the Adelaide Unley & Mitcham Tramway Co. through Arkell, Tufts & Co., New York Export Agents.  Numbered 1, it was sold in November 1883 to the Parramatta Tramway of Sydney Ferries, where it survived to the late 1930s.  It had a vertical boiler and I'm sure you've seen photos of it there, Frank.
Cheers, Richard

On Thursday, 31 October 2019, 22:42:45 GMT, John Dennis <jdennis412@...> wrote:


The Adelaide steam motor is mentioned in Bruce Macdonald's book: Baldwin 4343 of 1878. As Richard says, described as "painted canary yellow". 

John

On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 23:40, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:
Hello Richard,

It will include the Sydney Baldwin steam tram motors, and the Bendigo and Belmont Shire (Brisbane) steam tram motors. 

It does not include the Adelaide one because that was unknown to the author (and to me). Do you have any more information about it?

Regards,
Frank


On 31 Oct 2019, at 10:26 pm, rthorne475 via Groups.Io <rthorne475@...> wrote:

Will it include the Baldwin built Sydney steam trams and the single Adelaide one?  The latter was painted canary yellow.

Richard Horne

On Thursday, 31 October 2019, 10:14:17 GMT, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:


Hello all,
The LRRSA is proposing to publish a book titled "Australia's Colourful American Locomotives" by David Fletcher. The book is sub-titled "Their art and architecture 1870-1920". The book describes how architecture influenced the design and liveries of American locomotives in the nineteenth century, and includes about seventy detailed scale drawings showing the liveries of the locomotives, as delivered to Australia, in full colour.
All known types of American locomotive delivered new to Australia from 1870 to 1920 are included, except Shay and Climax geared locomotives.
The book will be in landscape format, with about 160 A3 size pages (420 x 297 mm). As this will be an expensive project the LRRSA is seeking expressions of interest from those likely to purchase a copy. The pre-publication price will probably be about $95, and the print run may be limited to the number of expressions of interest received.
You can register your interest by going to the LRRSA website: www.lrrsa.org.au
You can see a preview video about the book here: https://youtu.be/uU2dpTfhVMc

Frank Stamford (LRRSA Publications Officer)

 

 


NSW Division tour to Woolwich Dock

John Dennis
 

The NSW group are running another great looking tour, this time to Woolwich Dock (Morts Dock & Engineering Co) at Woolwich, Saturday 23 November.

Meet at Circular Quay Wharf No. 5 at 10:30am for the 10:45am ferry to Woolwich.

The tour is free and open to everyone. Ferry fares and Lunch/Drinks at the Woolwich Pier Hotel or Ironwood Coffee Co. afterwards at own expense.

For more details contact: Dave Jehan 0400 347 127

Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

rthorne475
 

It was ordered by the Adelaide Unley & Mitcham Tramway Co. through Arkell, Tufts & Co., New York Export Agents.  Numbered 1, it was sold in November 1883 to the Parramatta Tramway of Sydney Ferries, where it survived to the late 1930s.  It had a vertical boiler and I'm sure you've seen photos of it there, Frank.
Cheers, Richard

On Thursday, 31 October 2019, 22:42:45 GMT, John Dennis <jdennis412@...> wrote:


The Adelaide steam motor is mentioned in Bruce Macdonald's book: Baldwin 4343 of 1878. As Richard says, described as "painted canary yellow". 

John

On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 23:40, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:
Hello Richard,

It will include the Sydney Baldwin steam tram motors, and the Bendigo and Belmont Shire (Brisbane) steam tram motors. 

It does not include the Adelaide one because that was unknown to the author (and to me). Do you have any more information about it?

Regards,
Frank


On 31 Oct 2019, at 10:26 pm, rthorne475 via Groups.Io <rthorne475@...> wrote:

Will it include the Baldwin built Sydney steam trams and the single Adelaide one?  The latter was painted canary yellow.

Richard Horne

On Thursday, 31 October 2019, 10:14:17 GMT, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:


Hello all,
The LRRSA is proposing to publish a book titled "Australia's Colourful American Locomotives" by David Fletcher. The book is sub-titled "Their art and architecture 1870-1920". The book describes how architecture influenced the design and liveries of American locomotives in the nineteenth century, and includes about seventy detailed scale drawings showing the liveries of the locomotives, as delivered to Australia, in full colour.
All known types of American locomotive delivered new to Australia from 1870 to 1920 are included, except Shay and Climax geared locomotives.
The book will be in landscape format, with about 160 A3 size pages (420 x 297 mm). As this will be an expensive project the LRRSA is seeking expressions of interest from those likely to purchase a copy. The pre-publication price will probably be about $95, and the print run may be limited to the number of expressions of interest received.
You can register your interest by going to the LRRSA website: www.lrrsa.org.au
You can see a preview video about the book here: https://youtu.be/uU2dpTfhVMc

Frank Stamford (LRRSA Publications Officer)

 

 

Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

John Dennis
 

The Adelaide steam motor is mentioned in Bruce Macdonald's book: Baldwin 4343 of 1878. As Richard says, described as "painted canary yellow". 

John

On Thu, 31 Oct 2019 at 23:40, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:
Hello Richard,

It will include the Sydney Baldwin steam tram motors, and the Bendigo and Belmont Shire (Brisbane) steam tram motors. 

It does not include the Adelaide one because that was unknown to the author (and to me). Do you have any more information about it?

Regards,
Frank


On 31 Oct 2019, at 10:26 pm, rthorne475 via Groups.Io <rthorne475@...> wrote:

Will it include the Baldwin built Sydney steam trams and the single Adelaide one?  The latter was painted canary yellow.

Richard Horne

On Thursday, 31 October 2019, 10:14:17 GMT, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:


Hello all,
The LRRSA is proposing to publish a book titled "Australia's Colourful American Locomotives" by David Fletcher. The book is sub-titled "Their art and architecture 1870-1920". The book describes how architecture influenced the design and liveries of American locomotives in the nineteenth century, and includes about seventy detailed scale drawings showing the liveries of the locomotives, as delivered to Australia, in full colour.
All known types of American locomotive delivered new to Australia from 1870 to 1920 are included, except Shay and Climax geared locomotives.
The book will be in landscape format, with about 160 A3 size pages (420 x 297 mm). As this will be an expensive project the LRRSA is seeking expressions of interest from those likely to purchase a copy. The pre-publication price will probably be about $95, and the print run may be limited to the number of expressions of interest received.
You can register your interest by going to the LRRSA website: www.lrrsa.org.au
You can see a preview video about the book here: https://youtu.be/uU2dpTfhVMc

Frank Stamford (LRRSA Publications Officer)

 

 

Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

Frank Stamford
 

Hello Richard,

It will include the Sydney Baldwin steam tram motors, and the Bendigo and Belmont Shire (Brisbane) steam tram motors. 

It does not include the Adelaide one because that was unknown to the author (and to me). Do you have any more information about it?

Regards,
Frank


On 31 Oct 2019, at 10:26 pm, rthorne475 via Groups.Io <rthorne475@...> wrote:

Will it include the Baldwin built Sydney steam trams and the single Adelaide one?  The latter was painted canary yellow.

Richard Horne

On Thursday, 31 October 2019, 10:14:17 GMT, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:


Hello all,
The LRRSA is proposing to publish a book titled "Australia's Colourful American Locomotives" by David Fletcher. The book is sub-titled "Their art and architecture 1870-1920". The book describes how architecture influenced the design and liveries of American locomotives in the nineteenth century, and includes about seventy detailed scale drawings showing the liveries of the locomotives, as delivered to Australia, in full colour.
All known types of American locomotive delivered new to Australia from 1870 to 1920 are included, except Shay and Climax geared locomotives.
The book will be in landscape format, with about 160 A3 size pages (420 x 297 mm). As this will be an expensive project the LRRSA is seeking expressions of interest from those likely to purchase a copy. The pre-publication price will probably be about $95, and the print run may be limited to the number of expressions of interest received.
You can register your interest by going to the LRRSA website: www.lrrsa.org.au
You can see a preview video about the book here: https://youtu.be/uU2dpTfhVMc

Frank Stamford (LRRSA Publications Officer)

 

 

Re: Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

rthorne475
 

Will it include the Baldwin built Sydney steam trams and the single Adelaide one?  The latter was painted canary yellow.

Richard Horne

On Thursday, 31 October 2019, 10:14:17 GMT, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:


Hello all,
The LRRSA is proposing to publish a book titled "Australia's Colourful American Locomotives" by David Fletcher. The book is sub-titled "Their art and architecture 1870-1920". The book describes how architecture influenced the design and liveries of American locomotives in the nineteenth century, and includes about seventy detailed scale drawings showing the liveries of the locomotives, as delivered to Australia, in full colour.
All known types of American locomotive delivered new to Australia from 1870 to 1920 are included, except Shay and Climax geared locomotives.
The book will be in landscape format, with about 160 A3 size pages (420 x 297 mm). As this will be an expensive project the LRRSA is seeking expressions of interest from those likely to purchase a copy. The pre-publication price will probably be about $95, and the print run may be limited to the number of expressions of interest received.
You can register your interest by going to the LRRSA website: www.lrrsa.org.au
You can see a preview video about the book here: https://youtu.be/uU2dpTfhVMc

Frank Stamford (LRRSA Publications Officer)

 

 

Australia's Colourful American Locomotives - a proposed new LRRSA book.

Frank Stamford
 

Hello all,
The LRRSA is proposing to publish a book titled "Australia's Colourful American Locomotives" by David Fletcher. The book is sub-titled "Their art and architecture 1870-1920". The book describes how architecture influenced the design and liveries of American locomotives in the nineteenth century, and includes about seventy detailed scale drawings showing the liveries of the locomotives, as delivered to Australia, in full colour.
All known types of American locomotive delivered new to Australia from 1870 to 1920 are included, except Shay and Climax geared locomotives.
The book will be in landscape format, with about 160 A3 size pages (420 x 297 mm). As this will be an expensive project the LRRSA is seeking expressions of interest from those likely to purchase a copy. The pre-publication price will probably be about $95, and the print run may be limited to the number of expressions of interest received.
You can register your interest by going to the LRRSA website: www.lrrsa.org.au
You can see a preview video about the book here: https://youtu.be/uU2dpTfhVMc

Frank Stamford (LRRSA Publications Officer)

 

LIGHT RAILWAY RESEARCH SOCIETY OF AUSTRALIA INC. South East Queensland Group CABARLAH and HAMPTON TRAMWAYS outing

Mark Linnett
 

A field outing to visit the Cabarlah and Hampton tramways has been planned for November 16 2019.

 

The Munro Tramway Historical Group has been doing a lot of field work locating Munro’s tramway formation and liaising with the Toowoomba Regional Council for the display of Shay locomotive SN906 and erection of information boards on sections of the formation.

 

They have located the end of the tramway at Bunkers Hill. The tramway was known to end in the area but the actual physical location was probably known only to a few elderly locals. Quite a few tramway artefacts are scattered about the area.

 

Before constructing the Hampton tramway, Munro’s had constructed a short tramway at Cabarlah.

This tramway seems to be little known and somewhat forgotten. An article in Light Railways No.264 gives an account its discovery.

 

The outing will first visit the Cabarlah tramway. There will be a walk of a few hundred meters from the bus to the start of the tramway then a short bush walk along the formation.

 

After lunch, we stop at a few locations on the Hampton tramway to see the work done to display the locomotive and the erection of historical information display boards. It will be possible to see some of the formation but no major walk is involved. The final destination is the end of the tramway but this is adjacent

to the main road so only a short walk is necessary.

Arrangements can be made to pick up at Redbank if that is more convenient.

Times are approximate and return by 5.00pm is not guaranteed.

 

There is a store at Hampton where snacks and drinks can be purchased but you may prefer to bring your own. A cooler will be on the bus to keep things cold.

 

BOOKING :

 

Price:              $35 (will be collected on the day and does not include morning tea or lunch).

 

Departure will be from the Budget depot, 650 Beaudesert Rd., Rocklea (Cnr. Lillian Av. On left hand side about 400m south of  Nyanda rail overpass) at 7.30 am.

Arrangements can be made to pick up at Redbank if that is more suitable.

 

Bookings:       Email : Owen  Betts at osbee1@... (ph [07] 3275 2629)

                        Please book as soon as possible to ensure numbers are viable.

Re: Rails to Rubicon book - second edition pre-publication offer

John Dennis
 

Just a quick heads-up. The pre-publication offer for Rails to Rubicon expires tomorrow. Any orders placed from November 1st will be at the regular retail price.

Order from the online shop: https://shop.lrrsa.org.au/Rails-to-Rubicon

John Dennis
LRRSA Sales 


On Fri., 18 Oct. 2019, 4:36 pm Frank Stamford, <frank.stamford@...> wrote:

"Rails to Rubicon: A history of the Rubicon Forest" (second edition) by Peter Evans, has just arrived from the printer. I can now confirm that the reproduction of the photographs is greatly improved - and the quality of the paper is better (the book weighs 12% more than the first edition although it has the same number of pages).

The pre-publication price of $39.60 ($29.70 for LRRSA members) is available until 31 October; after which the price will be $49.50 ($37.10 to LRRSA members).

More information can be found on a previous post on this page, and orders can be placed on the LRRSA Online Shop:https://shop.lrrsa.org.au/Rails-to-Rubicon…

 
 

Accept

clausdk@...
 

Thanks

Clausdk@...

Re: LRRSA on groups.io

David Halfpenny
 


On 24 Oct 2019, at 23:49, Roderick Smith via Groups.Io <rnveditor@...> wrote:

Aha,
I am a member and got the message.
Yahoo is self destructing: no new content from 28.10, and no archiving of old content from December.
Hence, the switch to io is vital to preserve accumulated knowledge.

io makes transition seamless, but at a price: AUD220 for a premium account (10 GB) for one year, then the possibility of dropping to free (1 GB).

I am having to bite the bullet with my pub group.

Roderick, you can evade the transfer price by creating a free Basic group and doing the work yourself.

Personal Groupware Offline by Wilson Logan will archive your pub group (as best it can with Yahoo outages) to buy you time.
A Free Trial is enough to grab the messages photos and files.

David 1/2d


Google is not matching io: it has no transfer offer (free or paid).  Or at least, I can't find any information on such an offer within the google website.  It is just as arrogant as farcebook and yahell anyhow.
The one yahell group which went to google runs a private archive anyhow.

I still can't judge which is better for users.

Roderick



Re: LRRSA on groups.io

Frank Stamford
 


David,

I cannot. Yahoo will not let me log in!

They want me to verify my mobile phone number. They send me a verification code to my mobile phone, but when I try to log in with it they say it is invalid.

They are crazy.

Regards,
Frank


On 25/10/2019 11:03 am, David Halfpenny via Groups.Io wrote:
Frank,

Maybe it’s time change the Home Page and Posting Status of the old Yahoo Group?

At the moment all 9 800 messages are still visible, but by mid-December they’ll be gone.

David 1/2d

On 24 Oct 2019, at 23:18, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:

Hello all,

This message is from LRRSA@groups.io the group which was set up about 18 months ago to replace LRRSA@...

Some members of the old yahoogroup are claiming this group does not exist!

Well it does, and the old yahoogroup is dead as far as the LRRSA is concerned.

Regards,
Frank


Re: LRRSA on groups.io

David Halfpenny
 

Frank,

Maybe it’s time change the Home Page and Posting Status of the old Yahoo Group?

At the moment all 9 800 messages are still visible, but by mid-December they’ll be gone.

David 1/2d

On 24 Oct 2019, at 23:18, Frank Stamford <frank.stamford@...> wrote:

Hello all,

This message is from LRRSA@groups.io the group which was set up about 18 months ago to replace LRRSA@...

Some members of the old yahoogroup are claiming this group does not exist!

Well it does, and the old yahoogroup is dead as far as the LRRSA is concerned.

Regards,
Frank

Re: LRRSA on groups.io

Roderick Smith
 

Aha,
I am a member and got the message.
Yahoo is self destructing: no new content from 28.10, and no archiving of old content from December.
Hence, the switch to io is vital to preserve accumulated knowledge.

io makes transition seamless, but at a price: AUD220 for a premium account (10 GB) for one year, then the possibility of dropping to free (1 GB).

I am having to bite the bullet with my pub group.

Google is not matching io: it has no transfer offer (free or paid).  Or at least, I can't find any information on such an offer within the google website.  It is just as arrogant as farcebook and yahell anyhow.
The one yahell group which went to google runs a private archive anyhow.

I still can't judge which is better for users.

Roderick


LRRSA on groups.io

Frank Stamford
 

Hello all,

This message is from LRRSA@groups.io the group which was set up about 18 months ago to replace LRRSA@...

Some members of the old yahoogroup are claiming this group does not exist!

Well it does, and the old yahoogroup is dead as far as the LRRSA is concerned.

Regards,
Frank

Re: LRRSA NSW Division tour - WOOLWICH DOCK

rthorne475
 

Old photos show that two standard gauge steam railway cranes operated here, running the length of each side of the dock.  Does anyone have details?

Richard Horne

On Sunday, 20 October 2019, 11:09:23 BST, Phil Rickard <starry44@...> wrote:


Please see attached flier for what will no doubt be another interesting day tour for anyone in the Sydney area, conducted by this year's John Monash Medal winner, Dave Jeehan.

Phil Rickard

LRRSA NSW Division tour - WOOLWICH DOCK

Phil Rickard
 

Please see attached flier for what will no doubt be another interesting day tour for anyone in the Sydney area, conducted by this year's John Monash Medal winner, Dave Jeehan.

Phil Rickard