Date   

Re: Timber tramway proposed near Launceston, 1855

Tony Coen
 

Greetings, chaps.
 
For a long time, I have possessed notes on Grubb and Tyson’s Tramway and they reflect that the tramway was in operation, possibly into the early 1880s. According to my notes, the mill at Underwood closed down in 1869 and the tramway continued on spasmodically as a means of moving people and goods in and out of the respective area. It claims that the Launceston terminus of the line was at the present day site of the Mowbray Hotel. I have been to the Hollybank forestry reserve on a few occasions and have walked along the formation where it runs through the park.
 
I know that J.G. Branagan’s book “Bush Tramways and Private Railways of Tasmania” is not the most fallible of tomes on railway history that any of us have read, but his description of the tramway’s story is similar to my notes. Furthermore, Branagan’s grandfather was one of the men who erected the Piper’s River Mill and built the tramway, so there may be some credibility in his description of the tramway.
 
Branagan also has a photo. in his book that purports to show a tram in a deep cutting on the line, with credits given to the Queen Victoria Museum, Launceston. We all know that Museum people are subjective in their interpretations of such things, but I would suggest that the photo. is of some other well-built railway and not of the tramway in question. It would certainly have been built with the least amount of expense, and not have such a lavish cutting anywhere en route. The gauge does appear to be around 4’6”, though.
 
Since your discussions appeared in this medium, I searched around on Google and found information that might be clarification of the tramway’s operations, but such write-ups are often derived from hear-say. Have a look at http--www.forest-education.com-wp-content-uploads-2017-07-hollybank_a_brief_history_sml.pdf
 
Look forward to anything further on the existence or otherwise of this interesting tramway.
 
Cheers,
 
    Tony Coen.
 

Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2018 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Timber tramway proposed near Launceston, 1855
 
 

Hello David,

The reference to gauge has now been removed from the article - which I think is the right approach.

4 ft 6 in is more plausible than 3 ft 6 in,  but without documentary evidence it is just a guess.

Regards,
Frank



On 17/01/2018 8:54 PM, 'David Halfpenny (Yahoo 2)' david.halfpenny@... [LRRSA] wrote:
 

 

On 17 Jan 2018, at 09:20, mailto:frank.stamford@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 
The link below is to a very interesting item about a timber tramway proposed in 1855 and partly built near Launceston, Tasmania. (Not to be confused with Grubb's Tramway near Zeehan, which operated about 40 years later). There is a very detailed map. I question the statement in the Wikipedia article that this tramway was 3 ft 6 in gauge, as that gauge was almost unknown in 1855. I would like to see some evidence from the period before accepting that!
 
It’s been corrected to 4’ 6” Frank, which is the old Scotch gauge and very plausible for the period.
 
David 1/2d
 

 


Light Railways 259

John Dennis
 

We had nine willing volunteers last night, setting a new world record for the number of pullers, plonkers and stuffers available at an LRRSA mailout on a Tuesday night. With so many hands the job was done in double quick time, allowing said volunteers to enjoy a lively conversation over supper. The magazine was handed over to Australia Post today.

The magazine's contents are:

The Coffs Harbour Timber Company Limited, Part 2 (NSW)
Bongaree’s jetties – more from Bribie Island (QLD)
A Warburton timber man (Vic)
The Wombat Creek Tramway, North Warrandyte (Vic)
Industrial Railway News - 17 items from around Australia and Fiji
Letters - EM Baldwin tunnelling locomotives Job Number 5366; LR258 - An important milestone, and a correction; Plateways of Melbourne (LR 258)
Obituary - Michael Clifford Galway Schrader 30.9.1930 – 27.11.2017
Field Reports - Fermoy, Woods Point Central and Vulcan mines, Woods Point (Vic)
Heritage & Tourist News - 6 items from Australia

Society members should be receiving their copies over the next few days (allowing for a public holiday on Friday). I do not know when copies may appear in your local Newsagency, but they are available today in both printed and PDF from from the LRRSA online shop: go to http://lrrsa.org.au and follow the link. 

Note that the Adelaide meeting date shown in the magazine. The SA Group will be meeting on Thursday 1 February 2018 at 8:00 pm. Ignore the date in the magazine.

John Dennis
LRRSA Sales


Re: Timber tramway proposed near Launceston, 1855

Frank Stamford
 

Hello David,

The reference to gauge has now been removed from the article - which I think is the right approach.

4 ft 6 in is more plausible than 3 ft 6 in,  but without documentary evidence it is just a guess.

Regards,
Frank



On 17/01/2018 8:54 PM, 'David Halfpenny (Yahoo 2)' david.halfpenny@... [LRRSA] wrote:
 


On 17 Jan 2018, at 09:20, frank..stamford@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

The link below is to a very interesting item about a timber tramway proposed in 1855 and partly built near Launceston, Tasmania. (Not to be confused with Grubb's Tramway near Zeehan, which operated about 40 years later). There is a very detailed map. I question the statement in the Wikipedia article that this tramway was 3 ft 6 in gauge, as that gauge was almost unknown in 1855. I would like to see some evidence from the period before accepting that!

It’s been corrected to 4’ 6” Frank, which is the old Scotch gauge and very plausible for the period.

David 1/2d



Re: Timber tramway proposed near Launceston, 1855

David Halfpenny
 


On 17 Jan 2018, at 09:20, frank.stamford@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

The link below is to a very interesting item about a timber tramway proposed in 1855 and partly built near Launceston, Tasmania. (Not to be confused with Grubb's Tramway near Zeehan, which operated about 40 years later). There is a very detailed map. I question the statement in the Wikipedia article that this tramway was 3 ft 6 in gauge, as that gauge was almost unknown in 1855. I would like to see some evidence from the period before accepting that!

It’s been corrected to 4’ 6” Frank, which is the old Scotch gauge and very plausible for the period.

David 1/2d


Timber tramway proposed near Launceston, 1855

Frank Stamford
 

The link below is to a very interesting item about a timber tramway proposed in 1855 and partly built near Launceston, Tasmania. (Not to be confused with Grubb's Tramway near Zeehan, which operated about 40 years later). There is a very detailed map. I question the statement in the Wikipedia article that this tramway was 3 ft 6 in gauge, as that gauge was almost unknown in 1855. I would like to see some evidence from the period before accepting that!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grubb%27s_Tramway_(Mowbray)



Re: TOTALLY OFF TOPIC - photos from Europe

John Dennis
 

Michael,

I enjoyed these photos - but it is certainly a challenge to photograph in the museum. I shall put this place on my list for my next visit to Brussels, but it is a long way away from Oz, and my wife seems to have different priorities whenever I mention a railway museum...

John

On 8 January 2018 at 09:23, chapmanmchapman@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

Dear all,
 
A belated Happy New Year!
 
Apologies for filing your inbox with another off-topic email, but I've been uploading photographs to Flickr again.
 
Just before Christmas I went to Brussels in Belgium to visit the new Train World museum. Visit: http://www.trainworld.be/en
 
As a collection it's very good, as a museum site it's very good, as a display it's awful! Why - because it's far too dark.
 
It appears they have had consultants in telling them how to do it; the result is a collection of locomotives that are displayed with music in the dark. Spot-lights come on and go off so if you're trying to get a photograph you have to wait for the right moment.
 
 
Take a look if you're interested.
 
Cheers,
 
Michael Chapman

Follow my railway adventures on Flickr at http://tinyurl.com/nlvlnmt
Follow me on Twitter @mikenarrowgauge
Support the Welsh Highland Heritage Railway on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/WHHRly



TOTALLY OFF TOPIC - photos from Europe

Michael C.
 

Dear all,
 
A belated Happy New Year!
 
Apologies for filing your inbox with another off-topic email, but I've been uploading photographs to Flickr again.
 
Just before Christmas I went to Brussels in Belgium to visit the new Train World museum. Visit: http://www.trainworld.be/en
 
As a collection it's very good, as a museum site it's very good, as a display it's awful! Why - because it's far too dark.
 
It appears they have had consultants in telling them how to do it; the result is a collection of locomotives that are displayed with music in the dark. Spot-lights come on and go off so if you're trying to get a photograph you have to wait for the right moment.
 
 
Take a look if you're interested.
 
Cheers,
 
Michael Chapman

Follow my railway adventures on Flickr at http://tinyurl.com/nlvlnmt
Follow me on Twitter @mikenarrowgauge
Support the Welsh Highland Heritage Railway on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/WHHRly


Re: Tintenbar NSW

Petan
 

Bit more on the early mills and not known if these early ones had tramways apart from the Rous /  Alstonville operation. Again, this might help someone doing that region.

One of the many (1) early pre NSWGR railway era sugar mills near the future Tweed government railway line, was located at Nashua, between Booyong and Bangalow, and had a staff of 50. (2) ‘Byways of Steam 18’ relates that Tooheys, who owned the Nashua mill, supplied the hogsheads of beer free for the railway’s ‘Turning of the First Sod’. By 1894 the Nashua sugar mill was closed, and its equipment shipped by the vessel Wyoming from Tintenbar in the Ballina district to what the newspaper called the Kolan sugar mill in the Burnett River, QLD, district. (3) The newspaper account did not indicate if the Wyoming reached Tintenbar or if a barge did the local section and transferred the cargo to the Wyoming at the Port of Ballina.  Tintenbar’s wharf reserve was listed in the Government Gazette of 8 January 1887 (4).  

 

[1] One suggested list of Richmond sugar mills of the 1880s. Northern Star (Lismore) 3 May 1946 P.6 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article99114328

2 Northern Star (Lismore) 16 November 1889 P.4 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article71714104

3 The Bundaberg Mail and Burnett Advertiser 5 November 1894 P.3 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article216439388  

4 Reserve from Sale For Wharf (Tintenbar) Government Gazette 8 January 1887 P.187  http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article219932611 and the 1904 version http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article226489159

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley  

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Saturday, 6 January 2018 9:11 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Tintenbar NSW

 

Tintenbar is the head of navigation up Emigrant Creek from the Richmond River near Ballina. One of my Tweed Tramway articles discusses the sugar cane transported on the Tweed railway from beyond Bangalow in the 1890s and I came across this Trove; The Bundaberg Mail and Burnett Advertiser 5 November 1894 P.3 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article216439388    

 

The Tintenbar town plan of 1888 (southern not northern section) from NSW SIX http://www.nswlrs.com.au/land_titles/historical_research/parish_maps reveals two CSR wharves plus two other wharves within the Tintenbar town area. Best to download that town plan if interested as the relevant streets no longer exist although they show on the cadastral on NSW Globe. Two CSR wharves, maybe an old or newer, suggest CSR interest and maybe a tramway?

 

Tintenbar is not a main part of my Tweed project so I had better finish and submit all my Tweed articles to LR before I get side tracked on the Ballina region, so maybe this may help some else’s project.

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley




Tintenbar NSW

Petan
 

Tintenbar is the head of navigation up Emigrant Creek from the Richmond River near Ballina. One of my Tweed Tramway articles discusses the sugar cane transported on the Tweed railway from beyond Bangalow in the 1890s and I came across this Trove; The Bundaberg Mail and Burnett Advertiser 5 November 1894 P.3 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article216439388    

 

The Tintenbar town plan of 1888 (southern not northern section) from NSW SIX http://www.nswlrs.com.au/land_titles/historical_research/parish_maps reveals two CSR wharves plus two other wharves within the Tintenbar town area. Best to download that town plan if interested as the relevant streets no longer exist although they show on the cadastral on NSW Globe. Two CSR wharves, maybe an old or newer, suggest CSR interest and maybe a tramway?

 

Tintenbar is not a main part of my Tweed project so I had better finish and submit all my Tweed articles to LR before I get side tracked on the Ballina region, so maybe this may help some else’s project.

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

 


Re: : Wandong

David in Avenel
 

Thanks for the info Colin, that Unit 463 is the very box I was going through.

--
best wishes and a Merry Christmas to you all,  
David in Avenel.au
{Before you change anything, learn why it is the way it is.)


Re: : Wandong

Colin Harvey
 

Hi David

This siding was costed in 1892 at the same time as a proposal to replace the level crossing with an overbridge. Details are on file 92/14771 in VPRS 421/P0, Unit 463. This file has a plan of the proposal, but is it the same plan you saw?

I’m sure that the siding was not constructed into the works as proposed as it doesn’t appear in later photographs of the seasoning works, despite a reference in 1894 by the Engineer for Existing Lines recommending that rails and fastenings supplied for connection between Coy’s siding and railway siding at Wandong & value about £30 added to interest charges for other material &c (VPRS 12623/P1, Unit 1, Corres. No. 7235). Also no one I have spoken with at Wandong has any knowledge of a broad-gauge siding in the works.

There seems to be some confusion about how material supplied by the VR for use in the Company’s narrow-gauge tramway was used. In 1899 the Crown Solicitor stated that transfer of Co.’s siding to VR had been  completed (VPRS 12623/P1, Unit 16, Corres. No. 6489) but this may mean the transfer of the licence issued by the Lands Dept for the tramway from the mill to Wandong.

Regards

Colin


Wandong

David in Avenel
 

Hi all,

Just seen an 1892 plan for Wandong and it shows a proposed siding into a timber seasoning works which would have been located on the east side of the railway line.  Did this ever get built does anyone know?

A later tracing dated 1989 makes no mention of this but that doesn't prove anything as the proposal was pencilled on not inked.

--
best wishes and a Merry Christmas to you all,  
David in Avenel.au
{Before you change anything, learn why it is the way it is.)


Brisbane Grafton data

Petan
 

Some track plans as well as maps and line histories for Brisbane to Grafton and Casino to Murwillumbah lines, are now available thanks to the generosity of various people who sent these via email. The working plans and sections for the Grafton Casino Murwillumbah Condong lines are included.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1KCnx3cACRdCeM2yc9UbIcCK7i4UHh6Io

Those who read Ian Dunn’s Byways of Steam 18: 'the railway from nowhere to nowhere': the Grafton to the Tweed Railway 1894-1932, published by Eveleigh Press NSW  in 2002, would know about the proposed line from Killarney in Queensland to Legume just over the border in NSW and onwards to Grafton via Bonalbo. While I don’t have plans for that, this download does have plans for parts of the Casino Bonalbo Tenterfield line of which parts of the Casino section were built. Not all proposals went through Bonalbo.

Some other proposed lines in the Tenterfield Casino area are marked on the historical parish cadastrals obtainable from NSW Historical Land Records Viewer. Perhaps start at either Tenterfield Parish or Tabulam parish around a probably era and follow the marked surveys through the adjoining parish maps http://www.nswlrs.com.au/land_titles/historical_research/parish_maps

Thanks to those who forwarded material including Kevin Spicer and Monty Cello (Niagarapark on QRIG yahoogroup). Others wish to remain anonymous or I have not recorded their names and sorry about that if that is you and send me a private email as I have tried to be careful and respectful with names.

Section 30 of the Grafton Casino working plans and section was unavailable and so I did a substitute page with the history and track plans for Mount Neville at 477 miles 41 chains (768.481km), which was a station on sheet 30.

Also note one of the plans correctly shows what was usually known as South Brisbane Interstate Station as using it correct name of Brisbane as it was known and marked on NSWGR sourced plans in 1930 at the lines opening. The image resolution is the best I have.

Cheers

Peter Cokley


Re: Federal mill

silvansau
 

Hi again Frank,
                        Thank you for your reply and I thought the barrel staves barrel saw was an easy one for you.
                         Have a Happy Xmas and I am looking forward to the next “Light Railways” issue.
                                                               Yours,
                                                                          Keith Holmes
 

Sent: Monday, December 18, 2017 8:59 PM
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Federal mill
 


Hello Keith,

Thank you for your reminiscences of the New Federal and Ada River areas.

Unfortunately I also cannot understand how the saws for barrel staves work, hopefully someone else on this list may be able to explain that.

When you say "the latest Light Railway discussion group, i presume you are referring to the Light Railways of Australia Facebook Group which was mentioned in the latest Light Railways.

There is no email address for it, but there is a website address:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/LightRailwaysAustralia/

If you are not already a Facebook user you will be asked to join Facebook.

We currently have 281 members on the Light Railways of Australia Facebook page, but that umber is constantly growing.

Regards,
Frank


On 18/12/2017 4:51 PM, 'Keith Holmes' sherlock@... [LRRSA] wrote:
 
Hi Frank.
               I have realized that I have a household of books now and hardly ever read any so I pulled out “Mountains of Ash” and devoured it again and also your co authored “Powelltown”. Having walked a lot of this area I am reasonably familiar with that area.
               The last time to the New Federal I had a friend with me who as a young boy was at the Ada No2 in 39 and his uncle dragged him into the dugout and they survived. The leaches are still there and he copped one in the eye that morning. Lunch at the New Federal we stood up as we could hear their teeth gnashing. I drove the wife up to the Ada Tree another day  and that day there were two car loads and I mentioned the man who brought the art of the high leads to the country and one of of the older ladies said “His name was Jack Corbet and he boarded at our place in Warburton.
               The main reason that I have contacted you is that the Federal used barrel saws and even with a couple of photos I still can`t understand how they work. So Frank can describe how they work for me and it will be in my head for future knowledge.
                Now to my last request and could you please give me the the email address of the latest Light Railway discussion group.
                I have been a member since around 1962 and I still devour all news.
                                                                     Kind regards.
                                                                                          Keith Holmes. 
 
.

 


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: Federal mill

Frank Stamford
 

Hello Keith,

Thank you for your reminiscences of the New Federal and Ada River areas.

Unfortunately I also cannot understand how the saws for barrel staves work, hopefully someone else on this list may be able to explain that.

When you say "the latest Light Railway discussion group, i presume you are referring to the Light Railways of Australia Facebook Group which was mentioned in the latest Light Railways.

There is no email address for it, but there is a website address:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/LightRailwaysAustralia/

If you are not already a Facebook user you will be asked to join Facebook.

We currently have 281 members on the Light Railways of Australia Facebook page, but that umber is constantly growing.

Regards,
Frank


On 18/12/2017 4:51 PM, 'Keith Holmes' sherlock@... [LRRSA] wrote:
 

Hi Frank.
               I have realized that I have a household of books now and hardly ever read any so I pulled out “Mountains of Ash” and devoured it again and also your co authored “Powelltown”. Having walked a lot of this area I am reasonably familiar with that area.
               The last time to the New Federal I had a friend with me who as a young boy was at the Ada No2 in 39 and his uncle dragged him into the dugout and they survived. The leaches are still there and he copped one in the eye that morning. Lunch at the New Federal we stood up as we could hear their teeth gnashing. I drove the wife up to the Ada Tree another day  and that day there were two car loads and I mentioned the man who brought the art of the high leads to the country and one of of the older ladies said “His name was Jack Corbet and he boarded at our place in Warburton.
               The main reason that I have contacted you is that the Federal used barrel saws and even with a couple of photos I still can`t understand how they work. So Frank can describe how they work for me and it will be in my head for future knowledge.
                Now to my last request and could you please give me the the email address of the latest Light Railway discussion group.
                I have been a member since around 1962 and I still devour all news.
                                                                     Kind regards.
                                                                                          Keith Holmes. 

.



Federal mill

silvansau
 

Hi Frank.
               I have realized that I have a household of books now and hardly ever read any so I pulled out “Mountains of Ash” and devoured it again and also your co authored “Powelltown”. Having walked a lot of this area I am reasonably familiar with that area.
               The last time to the New Federal I had a friend with me who as a young boy was at the Ada No2 in 39 and his uncle dragged him into the dugout and they survived. The leaches are still there and he copped one in the eye that morning. Lunch at the New Federal we stood up as we could hear their teeth gnashing. I drove the wife up to the Ada Tree another day  and that day there were two car loads and I mentioned the man who brought the art of the high leads to the country and one of of the older ladies said “His name was Jack Corbet and he boarded at our place in Warburton.
               The main reason that I have contacted you is that the Federal used barrel saws and even with a couple of photos I still can`t understand how they work. So Frank can describe how they work for me and it will be in my head for future knowledge.
                Now to my last request and could you please give me the the email address of the latest Light Railway discussion group.
                I have been a member since around 1962 and I still devour all news.
                                                                     Kind regards.
                                                                                          Keith Holmes. 

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Gleniffer Incline NSW

Sam Laybutt
 

Has anyone visited to the Gleniffer Incline near Bellingen NSW?


There is a great write-up on it in LR100 which includes mention of a tunnel located approximately here:

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/30%C2%B022'44.8%22S+152%C2%B051'06.2%22E/@-30.379123,152.8508997,351m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d-30.3791227!4d152.851732


Re: : Speed Limit 20 Plus

dickwho1
 

I still have my original.

 

On 8 Dec 2017, at 10:38, Rod Hutchinson rodhutchy@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

There is a few in Branchline, Victoria, Australia.


Rod Hutchinson
Mooroolbark
Australia

On 8 Dec. 2017 09:24, "frank.stamford@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

Anyone intending to buy a copy of Speed Limit 20 Plus should not delay. We ordered 64 copies and have already sold more than half, and I think sales will be going equally quickly through other outlets. The publishers also have sold most of the print run.

Frank


Re: : Speed Limit 20 Plus

Rod Hutchinson
 

There is a few in Branchline, Victoria, Australia.


Rod Hutchinson
Mooroolbark
Australia

On 8 Dec. 2017 09:24, "frank.stamford@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

Anyone intending to buy a copy of Speed Limit 20 Plus should not delay. We ordered 64 copies and have already sold more than half, and I think sales will be going equally quickly through other outlets. The publishers also have sold most of the print run.

Frank


Re: : Speed Limit 20 Plus

Michael C.
 

We have 20, sorry 19 at the Welsh Highland Heritage Railway in Porthmadog.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1792451634130674&id=362079400501245

Michael Chapman

Sent from my Sony Xperia™ smartphone

"frank.stamford@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

Anyone intending to buy a copy of Speed Limit 20 Plus should not delay. We ordered 64 copies and have already sold more than half, and I think sales will be going equally quickly through other outlets. The publishers also have sold most of the print run.

Frank

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