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Re: Pyrmont CSR
At the risk of getting a bit OT ... Does anybody know what else CO2 could be an ingredient in, because I don't think CO2 went out the CSRC gate in liquid or solid form, but perhaps went into something else that they made there. I am BY NO MEANS a chemist so I have absolutely NO idea what these chemicals are but ISTR they made acetaldehyde, something or other anhydride (acid anhydride perhaps) acetic acid, the stuff that takes nail polish off, zinc and aluminium sterates, and others I now don't recall. Perhaps CO2 goes into one of these. Again it was rather a long time ago and I was only a kid, but I think I recall them doing research work on synthetic sugars as well, which might seem a bit odd for a sugar company. I remember dad bringing home (probably pint) bottles of liquid sugar, but I don't think it was around for long, or maybe they stopped allowing employees to take it home. I did a school holidays job working down in the sterates plant as a 14y.o. Hardest bloody physical work I have ever done!!!!! And now it's all gone - Pyrmont, Lane Cove, Rhodes, and Mayfield West in Newcastle. Great days.
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Don't just answer the question, question the answer.
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Re: Pyrmont CSR
Bob Mcleod
Indeed Kevin, My Dad reports workmen who spent time in the empty fermenting vats becoming somewhat merry. They also used beryllium copper tools, to prevent any chance of a spark igniting the vapour. The sugar dust was also highly explosive, a spark from a conveyor, at one time blew out all the windows of the warehouse, into the harbour. I rather wonder if the molasses loaded on rail at Condong, went to Pyrmont at all. There were many other users of it. Stock food makers use a lot. Bob
From: "Kevin Sewell kevinrsewell@... [LRRSA]" To: LRRSA@... Sent: Sunday, 4 March 2018, 15:49 Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Pyrmont CSR On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Bob Mcleod wrote:
BINGO!!! - then thats why the molasses went to CSRC at Lane Cove ... CSRC made industrial quantities of pure alcohol. It was shipped out by the stainless steel semitrailer tanker load. I vaguely recall an incident probably about 1970, where workmen had to climb inside the tanker to wash it out for the next load, and were overcome by the fumes and became unconcious and died before they could be got out. I suppose alcoholic poisoning. The tank had not been fully drained after the previous load and there was still a small amount of pure alcohol in the tank. A somewhat different approach to WHS in those days. Cheers, Kevin Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement.
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Re: : Re: Pyrmont CSR
Tom Jessop
This link is to the Historical maps section website which has the whole of the city at different times available for viewing for free . usually my first goto for map queries relating to the CBD etc of Sydney . http://atlas.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/
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Re: Pyrmont CSR
On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Bob Mcleod wrote:
BINGO!!! - then thats why the molasses went to CSRC at Lane Cove ... CSRC made industrial quantities of pure alcohol. It was shipped out by the stainless steel semitrailer tanker load. I vaguely recall an incident probably about 1970, where workmen had to climb inside the tanker to wash it out for the next load, and were overcome by the fumes and became unconcious and died before they could be got out. I suppose alcoholic poisoning. The tank had not been fully drained after the previous load and there was still a small amount of pure alcohol in the tank. A somewhat different approach to WHS in those days. Cheers, Kevin Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement.
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Re: Pyrmont CSR
Bob Mcleod
I am interested in this CSR business, as my father served his apprenticeship there and went to sea on the CSR sugar ships in the 1930's. He spoke with reverence of CSR for the rest of his life. The Company had two ocean going steamships, the Rona, and the Fiona, built around the early years of the Century, triple expansion engines. They travelled to Fiji, New Zealand, and the Aust. east Coast, carrying sugar, copra, molasses and transferring machinery, 2ft. gauge rolling stock etc. It was usual for them to enter Northern Rivers, to load sugar, bagasse and carry bulk molasses, direct from the company mills. This was kept in steam heated tanks, and pumped aboard with steam pumps. The molasses was largely used for distilling alcohol, and the resulting CO2 gas was compressed, also converted to dry ice. Pyrmont was a huge industrial complex, with a large range of by-products, and an engineering facility equal to anything in Australia. The company ships regularly berthed in Elizabeth Bay. I have never heard of any rail connection, and if molasses was sent there by rail, I assume it was unloaded at Darling Harbour. If it was in bulk, then it must have been transferred to road tankers for the very short haul to the Refinery. This seems unlikely, due to the need to heat it somewhat to enable it to be freely pumped . It would almost have been worthwhile laying a pipeline this short distance. Up until the end of WW2 , all products leaving Pyrmont were carted on 4 wheel horse drawn lorries, 4 or 6 horses, depending on load. The Company was very proud of its horses, (fed plenty of molasses?), and they were greatly loved. They were very intelligent, and would work from store to weighbridge, stables to office etc, without any driver, they were just told where to go. They would always carefully park the wagons on the weighbridge, regardless of how big the team. I include a photo of some of these horses at the Refinery. They would negotiate city traffic to their destination, whilst the driver read the daily paper. Incoming stores and goods were brought in by these teams, as well as by independent carriers, but I have not heard of horse drawn or motor molasses tankers. The engineering works at Pyrmont was much involved in maintenance of the extensive 2ft. gauge railway systems in Australia and Fiji, making most of their own rolling stock, and I remember seeing the massive forges and steam hammers there. The company bought in great quantities of old bones, which were used to make bone charcoal, for filtering sugar syrup. The oil driven off in charring the bones was used as fuel in all the furnaces in the workshops, and it sure did stink! There are many more stories of Pyrmont, in the 'good old days' but that is enough. The map of Sydney is most fascinating.... look at all the names of landowners . All those big Australian companies that have disappeared! Regards, Bob McLeod
From: "Kevin Sewell kevinrsewell@... [LRRSA]" To: LRRSA@... Sent: Sunday, 4 March 2018, 12:14 Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Pyrmont CSR This is only a puzzle piece, not an exhaustive solution to your question. My father worked for CSR Chemicals at Lane Cove from about the mid 1950s to when the plant closed and merged with the much bigger CSRC plant at Rhodes. Up until about the mid to late 60s (unsure exactly) molasses was brought to CSRC Lane Cove by barge, up the Lane Cove river to CSRC's wharf, from where it was transferred for use in the plant. I only remember being taken down to see the wharf as a little kid, and didn't see the barges, but probably they only travelled weekdays and I was only there weekends with dad. I have no idea what the molasses was used for, or what process it went into. I think it extraordinarily unlikely to have been domestic/shop retail. It must have been some chemical process/product. I have no idea how the molasses was transported on the barge - probably not bulk tanks, and certainly not ISO containers. It may have been barrels or casks. CSRC had an in-house cooper up until the late 60s. Where the molasses came from, I don't know. Possibly from Pyrmont sugar refinery, or possibly off loaded at the refinery from ships directly onto barges for movement up the river to Lane Cove ... don't know. Whether it came from Condong, I don't know. (don't know much do I!!) CSRC would hardly be likely to be buying someone else's molasses so presumably it came from a CSR mill ... quite possibly Condong. My father was an instrument technician (fancy F&T!!!) and was rostered once a month to go in for several hours Sat and Sun to walk around the entire factory changing and collecting the paper charts that recorded everything to do with the processes (they had to be changed every 24hours). I used to sometimes go with him, riding on his Vespa motor scooter from Lindfield to Lane Cove. I vividly remember the all-consuming overpowering smell of the molass walking around down in that part of the plant. If think very hard about it, I can still smell it - it has burned the smell-image into my brain forever. Even I as a child I could tell which part of the plant we were in from the chemical's smells. The molasses was stored in huge tanks, maybe 20 or 30m high and about 10m diameter with rounded tops and bottoms. I think there was about 8 or 10 of them. As I said, I don't know how the molasses got from barge to tanks, but I very vaguely recall there being a pipeline, possibly also a steam line going down through the bush to the wharf, so maybe it was steam heated to make it more runny. Don't know ... much. It is possible that CSRC was the sole customer of Condong's molasses, in which case it might never have hit land until off-loaded at Lane Cove. As I said puzzle piece, not solution.
Don't just answer the question, question the answer.
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Re: Pyrmont CSR
This is only a puzzle piece, not an exhaustive solution to your question. My father worked for CSR Chemicals at Lane Cove from about the mid 1950s to when the plant closed and merged with the much bigger CSRC plant at Rhodes. Up until about the mid to late 60s (unsure exactly) molasses was brought to CSRC Lane Cove by barge, up the Lane Cove river to CSRC's wharf, from where it was transferred for use in the plant. I only remember being taken down to see the wharf as a little kid, and didn't see the barges, but probably they only travelled weekdays and I was only there weekends with dad. I have no idea what the molasses was used for, or what process it went into. I think it extraordinarily unlikely to have been domestic/shop retail. It must have been some chemical process/product. I have no idea how the molasses was transported on the barge - probably not bulk tanks, and certainly not ISO containers. It may have been barrels or casks. CSRC had an in-house cooper up until the late 60s. Where the molasses came from, I don't know. Possibly from Pyrmont sugar refinery, or possibly off loaded at the refinery from ships directly onto barges for movement up the river to Lane Cove ... don't know. Whether it came from Condong, I don't know. (don't know much do I!!) CSRC would hardly be likely to be buying someone else's molasses so presumably it came from a CSR mill ... quite possibly Condong. My father was an instrument technician (fancy F&T!!!) and was rostered once a month to go in for several hours Sat and Sun to walk around the entire factory changing and collecting the paper charts that recorded everything to do with the processes (they had to be changed every 24hours). I used to sometimes go with him, riding on his Vespa motor scooter from Lindfield to Lane Cove. I vividly remember the all-consuming overpowering smell of the molass walking around down in that part of the plant. If think very hard about it, I can still smell it - it has burned the smell-image into my brain forever. Even I as a child I could tell which part of the plant we were in from the chemical's smells. The molasses was stored in huge tanks, maybe 20 or 30m high and about 10m diameter with rounded tops and bottoms. I think there was about 8 or 10 of them. As I said, I don't know how the molasses got from barge to tanks, but I very vaguely recall there being a pipeline, possibly also a steam line going down through the bush to the wharf, so maybe it was steam heated to make it more runny. Don't know ... much. It is possible that CSRC was the sole customer of Condong's molasses, in which case it might never have hit land until off-loaded at Lane Cove. As I said puzzle piece, not solution.
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Don't just answer the question, question the answer.
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Re: : Pyrmont CSR
Tom Jessop
This map may be of assistance , The City of Sydney Historical maps web site has many maps available almost back to the first fleet . http://atlas.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/maps/city-of-sydney-building-surveyors-detail-sheets-1949-1972/city-of-sydney-building-surveyors-detail-sheets-1949-1972-sheet-5-pyrmont/ Back in the mid 50s when I was a mere boy my father worked for J&A Brown in Sydney & there was one of the many wharf strikes in progress , Salaried staff were used to move the SS Wallarah from Balls head to CSR Pyrmont & I was lucky to be taken along also . I can remember tieing up at either wharf 28 ,29 or 30 which were opposite the coal bin for the power house .
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Re: Pyrmont CSR
Noel Reed
Hello Peter and all, One of my 1943-1947 high school friends worked with CSR Pyrmont and I believe that he was also at CSR establishments in northern NSW and Queensland at various times. He still lives in retirement in our area and if I can get specific queries about Pyrmont , he may have some answers which I can pass on. Noel Reed.
From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Saturday, 3 March 2018 9:54 PM To: LRRSA@... Subject: [LRRSA] Pyrmont CSR
Can those who knew Pyrmont in Sydney during the CSR refinery era please help (confirm yes or no) the results of my following investigations. It is to do with an article on Condong in the CSR era. I live near Coolangatta Tweed Heads.
CSR was located with its own ocean going capable ship capable wharf at Pyrmont on the left hand side inbound as you crossed the Victoria Rd bridge, coming from Hunters Hill direction. (Yes or No)
The Metropolitan Goods Line, as shown on Hairylegs (Thanks John P.) did not provide a siding for CSR at Pyrmont and the closest siding would have been somewhere like Darling Harbour. (yes or No)
If both above are true, then any bagged sugar dispatched from Condong via the NSWGR needed transhipping at Darling Harbour or maybe Rozelle after that yard opened.
If above true, and no rail siding for CSR at Pyrmont, what happened with the molasses railed south from Condong? The 1961 NSWGR Local Appendix to the Northern Division Working Timetable P.330 reveals a molasses loading point with 6 outlets was provided at the Condong mill.. Things must have changed as photo from 1969 only shows four outlets. The molasses was noted in the LA-WTT as being loaded into MX type Railway Tankers.
I have also consulted the Metropolitan Goods Line article and diagrams in ARH 2016.
Thanks Peter Cokley
Posted by: "Peter Cokley"
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Pyrmont CSR
Petan
Can those who knew Pyrmont in Sydney during the CSR refinery era please help (confirm yes or no) the results of my following investigations. It is to do with an article on Condong in the CSR era. I live near Coolangatta Tweed Heads.
CSR was located with its own ocean going capable ship capable wharf at Pyrmont on the left hand side inbound as you crossed the Victoria Rd bridge, coming from Hunters Hill direction. (Yes or No)
The Metropolitan Goods Line, as shown on Hairylegs (Thanks John P.) did not provide a siding for CSR at Pyrmont and the closest siding would have been somewhere like Darling Harbour. (yes or No)
If both above are true, then any bagged sugar dispatched from Condong via the NSWGR needed transhipping at Darling Harbour or maybe Rozelle after that yard opened.
If above true, and no rail siding for CSR at Pyrmont, what happened with the molasses railed south from Condong? The 1961 NSWGR Local Appendix to the Northern Division Working Timetable P.330 reveals a molasses loading point with 6 outlets was provided at the Condong mill. Things must have changed as photo from 1969 only shows four outlets. The molasses was noted in the LA-WTT as being loaded into MX type Railway Tankers.
I have also consulted the Metropolitan Goods Line article and diagrams in ARH 2016.
Thanks Peter Cokley
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Describing the TBM route of the Perth City Rail Tunnel
For a future article in preparation. Are there any members or subscribers to this group who may be, or know of, train drivers on the Perth Metro network who could help with a description of a journey through the bored section of tunnel on the Perth MetroRail City Project, Public Transport Authority, Perth WA AU, Package F, Esplanade~Perth Yard.
I am interested in obtaining a list of kilometer markers in relation to the interior tunnel features, and the transition points between the segmented ring section tunnel, station boxes and the roadheader and cut and cover sections at each end. This will be to round off a description of the equipment used to construct this tunnel section. Any help gratefully received. Contact me off-group, please. -PGG-
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Re: : A small request - YouTube
john_raby
Many thanks for this plug. We have passed the YouTube deadline for me to have 1000 subscribers and I have only 786 which is an improvement from the original 600+ but not enough. My channel can still be viewed on YouTube and it would be nice to get to 1000 eventually - the link is https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3Z8-l1CDAMKQR5QM4fVqOQ
I'd appreciate it if you would sign up. Ideally, I would like to reach 1000 AND continue to upload my DVD collection to YouTube. I'll give it a few months more before making a final decision about what to do. You can see all my DVDs listed here http://rabylee.uk/alldvds.html and I would be happy to receive requests to upload any not already on YouTube. Please email john@... with any requests. Best wishes John
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Sydney Water archival images
Stuart Thyer
For those interested in the light railway aspects of construction projects and operational tramways managed over the years by Sydney Water. The archive has been most helpful to Light Railways on occasion, the most recent being Ron Madden’s article on the Botany sewage operations. RAHS/ASHET Evening Lecture - Photographing Sydney's Water History Thursday 22 March @ 5.30pm for 6pm - 7pm History House, 133 Macquarie Street, Sydney Presenters: Jeanette Komli and Phil Bennett Cost: Members $10 and Friends $12 This presentation will illustrate what is held in the Sydney Water / WaterNSW Historical Research Archive collection and will highlight how it tells the story of Sydney’s water supply from the Upper Nepean Scheme to Warragamba Dam. The basis of this collection is the many photographs taken by the Water Board’s Photography Section from 1893-1991.
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An interesting job on offer (NSW)
Stuart Thyer
Not strictly on topic, but such an unusual offering for those in NSW. https://www.jobs.davidsonwp.com/transport-shipping-logistics-jobs/photographic-and-database-officer/1597781
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Re: TOTALLY OFF-TOPIC; more photographs from Wales.
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 8:02 PM, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
Cheers, Kevin Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement.
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Re: TOTALLY OFF-TOPIC; more photographs from Wales.
John Dennis
Thanks Michael, I've never been to that line - but your lovely photos have prompted me to add it to the list for our next visit to the UK. It looks spectacular indeed. John
On 19 February 2018 at 12:09, chapmanmchapman@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
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TOTALLY OFF-TOPIC; more photographs from Wales.
Michael C.
Dear all,
Apologies for filling your inbox with emails that aren't relevant to the Australian Light Railways scene.
Of late I've been getting really interested in the Sandy River & Rangeley Lakes Railroad in Maine USA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandy_River_and_Rangeley_Lakes_Railroad
I am planning a trip to Maine at some point to have a look at the three or four preservation sites in due course...
In the meantime I have been to have a look at the Brecon Mountain Railway near Merthyr Tydfil in South Wales. https://bmr.wales/
This was one of those places I've known about for years but have never been to.
It was a long day driving there from Porthmadog, but well worth it; their Baldwin tender locomotive was amazingly clean, and very impressive with an American chime whistle. The weather, whilst bright, was bitterly cold. I liked the railway so much I went for a second ride but on the footplate.
I also had a quick look round their works where another Baldwin is nearing the end of a long rebuild.
I have uploaded a collection of images to Flickr. Have a look if you're interested:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/albums/72157665888142448
Cheers,
Michael Chapman, UK.
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Bremer River bridge
Petan
Recent trip to QLD State Archives produced the usual load of goodies including an almost full load on my USB memory stick from the large touch screen “Map Vending Machine” in the main research room.
Included is an 1865 railway bridge over the Bremer River. At that date, it was the original road and rail bridge between the Ipswich Station and the workshops. While some have seen this before, my interest was taken by its title of “Light Railways”. The plan reveals the train mass was mostly taken by the piers on one side. Naturally the item is as I found it with regards its title and QSA codes. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_gSpqrnKRKV1_eUuG-CCIYDaTy2V8L0u/view
Cheers Peter Cokley
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Re: A small request - YouTube
Michael McCarthy
Hi Phil,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
shall do!
Cheers
Mike Mobile: +61 407700911
On 16 Feb 2018, at 2:13 pm, starry44@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
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A small request - YouTube
Phil Rickard
The below e-mail has meandered its way through cyberspace from England and is worth reading. My apologies to those whom have received it via other channels.
I might add that John Raby's videos are excellent. There are many of light railway interest, in out-of-the-way places, plus heavier railway material. Might I recommend his Chinese "Jincheng Reed Railway". If everyone who reads this subscribed he would reach the magic milestone. Subscribing to his YouTube channel costs nothing! But it does give John some pin-money in return for the excellent service he renders. I realise you have to endure a ten-second ad (which one can usually truncate) to reach the video, but, fair dinkum, I think it's worth it. Give it a go. I hope you continue to enjoy his videos. cheers Phil Rickard
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Re: Battery loco operator required
Philip Graham has kindly reminded me that news of the order for large battery locomotive(s) for the Sydney Metro project first emerged in 2016. The manufacturer is CRRC Zhuzhou Locomotive Co Ltd.
This Chinese web page shows a couple of photos of the type but I am unsure if one has been delivered to Sydney yet. http://www.gongyetoutiao.com/xw/html/4732.shtml
John
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