Date   

Re: Melbourne sewer construction, 1890s

Bob Thornton
 

G'day,

"This duct, in Spotswood, was built as a key upgrade to Melbourne’s first sewer system around 1930. It was made by unskilled workmen who dug into the city's swamp with spades and dodged deadly methane explosions."

Ah, yes, a VR gang came close to shading their knickers whilst repairing the PCR at Hall St in Spotswood - they accidentally broke through into this sewer line releasing a large amount of rather odorous, er, flammable gas....  As I recall, this PCR is actually a bridge due to the presence of the sewer.

And, maybe they were were unskilled in the 30's, but the old guys in the 1890's certainly weren't, my g'grandad was in that lot, a highly skilled chippie - if he had to match a piece of fancy milled timber, he hand made the planes to do it, unskilled, humph....

cheers,

Bob Thornton
Skipton AU


Melbourne sewer construction, 1890s

Roderick Smith
 

'It’s incredible': The old engineering wonder buried beneath Melbourne 9 July 2018.

The crane groans and shudders as it hauls up the cage from the depths of a deep black hole not far from the banks of the Yarra River.

Eventually, the grimy faces of workmen appear.

"What does it smell like?" one of the onlookers gathered around edge of the hole asks.

"Like shit," they reply together.

Workers are excavating one of Melbourne's first ever sewerage systems. Pictured are Brad Newman and Shane Newman from John Holland KBR. Photo: Darrian Traynor Spotlights are pushed over the edges of the huge manhole, providing a view of the depths.

The light plays off brick walls which are stained black. Small pipes jut out of the walls on all sides, adding their trickles to the flood of human waste that rushes like a river 13 metres below.

This duct, in Spotswood, was built as a key upgrade to Melbourne’s first sewer system around 1930. It was made by unskilled workmen who dug into the city's swamp with spades and dodged deadly methane explosions.

It has performed flawlessly for the last century. When maintenance workers chain-sawed it open last month they discovered it was in almost-perfect condition.

"It’s incredible. It’s a marvel of engineering," says Tom Ryan, who manages the project for Melbourne Water.

A 1892 map of Melbourne's sewers. Most of the infrastructure remains in place. Photo: Melbourne Water / Supplied.

Modern Melbourne’s skyscrapers are built on an old engineering wonder, buried deep in the soil. More than 400 kilometres of pipe, much of it built by hand more than 100 years ago, sits under the surface, connecting millions of homes.

Before it was built, Melburnians had no choice but to dump their raw sewage in the streets, and the city was choked with lethal typhoid.

This image, taken sometime between 1893 and 1897 of a sewer pipe nearby, shows the original brick construction methods. Photo: Melbourne Water / Supplied But sometimes the old ways are better. In the 1960s, sewer construction methods changed from brick to modern concrete. "We found ironically the earlier sewers built in brick are standing up better than the later ones built in concrete," says Mr Ryan.

And the pipes were built with heaps of extra capacity, so despite Melbourne’s population growing from perhaps half a million to 4.9 million, producing about 900 million litres of excrement a day, the sewers are far from choked.

In fact, this duct has only been opened so crews can inspect and reline the channels with plastic pipe to protect them from any future damage. It's part of a huge Melbourne Water project to reline more than 100 kilometres of the city's sewers.

This image shows the 12-tonne gates - known as penstocks - and below, the rushing torrent of sewerage. Photo: Darrian Traynor About 20 per cent of the city’s sewage flows through this 13-metre black hole. Back when it was built, huge steam engines would have been connected here to move the 12-tonne steel sewer gates that control flow.

But that system fell apart years ago and now they are permanently locked open.

The workers will cut them out with a super-high-pressure 'water laser' before removing them.

Building a sewer network by hand and steam-power was a dirty, dangerous job.  Photo: Melbourne Water / Supplied When this duct was built, the workmen managed to blow one of the huge gates right off. Bacteria love sewers, consuming faeces and releasing methane and other flammable gases. "They had no gas detectors back in the day, and they did not fully understand the consequences of these gases," says Mr Ryan.

video: The sewerage pump built to last

Sydney's first electric sewerage pump station is 115 years old and still servicing the city.

Methane apparently built up behind one of the gates, and a naked flame – a candle, maybe – ignited it, blowing the 12-tonne gate right off. Miraculously, nobody was hurt.

After the lining is done, the workmen will close up the duct again.

All going as it should, they won’t need to open it again for another 100 years.

<www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/it-s-incredible-the-old-engineering-wonder-buried-beneath-melbourne-20180706-p4zpuo.html>

* And some in this country would have you believe that the expense undertaken to creat this marvel is little more than intergenerational theft.

* Amazing. Looks similar to those built in Paris and London, but we hear less of our sewage system, even though it is a great engineering feat.

* Once we had Governments and organisations like the Board of Works that actually planed for the future. Today leadership in Victoria and Asutralia is rife with mediocrity. Could not plan the proverbial booze up in a brewery. Soon we will  be faced with elections where we will be asked to select which group of mediocre candidates we want to run Victoria and Australia further into the ground.

* Back in those days, things were built to work, and built to work long into the future; cost was secondary. These days, cost is primary; things are built to the bare minimum standard that will work, and only for as long as any mandated warranty.

* The longevity of Melbourne's sewers is pretty good, but remember that the mother of all sewers, Rome's cloaca maxima, is still going strong after more than 2000 years! Now that is future proofing.

* A reminder of the enormous benefits to human health and welfare that have been brought to us by engineering.

* Is this the work that's being done along Douglas Pde Newport/Willi. for the past few months?

* Amazing foresight! We can't even build a freeway these days without it being choked to the sh*t after 5 years.

* Back in the day engineering works were built to LAST unlike today build / demolish / build / demolish all for profit greed and political point scoring.

[LRRSA 'Light Railways' has had a good article on the railways used to support the original construction.  In later years, railways were used for the construction of new main-trunk sewers, with depots at East Malvern and Laverton].


Seaworld monorail running

Petan
 

The Gold Coast Seaworld monorail was observed running around lunch time today, including the track over the southern public car park. We were in the park near the Southport pool across the Broadwater so it looked approx to be around 8 cars / units plus cabs at each end.  Cheers Peter Cokley

 

 


Re: 'Deanville Tramway' at East Point, Darwin

Sam Laybutt
 

Fantastic find - thanks Bob.




From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> on behalf of Bob Thornton via Groups.Io <rjt_46@...>
Sent: Sunday, 8 July 2018 8:42 AM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] 'Deanville Tramway' at East Point, Darwin
 
G'day,

google is pretty handy, try...
http://www.acant.org.au/Articles/HMASBrisbane2.html
for some nice clear pix... :)

cheers,
Bob Thornton
Skipton AU
_.


Re: 'Deanville Tramway' at East Point, Darwin

Bob Thornton
 

G'day,

google is pretty handy, try...
http://www.acant.org.au/Articles/HMASBrisbane2.html
for some nice clear pix... :)

cheers,
Bob Thornton
Skipton AU


Re: 'Deanville Tramway' at East Point, Darwin

Stuart Livesey
 

Sorry John - by "they" I meant the NT Library.

Stuart


Re: 'Deanville Tramway' at East Point, Darwin

John Browning
 

“Decauville” was a term used by the British military to describe light 2ft gauge railways, often using prefabricated track sections. This is surely what is intended here.

It might be worth checking out photos at the NT Library to see if there are others that provide more information on the site. Otherwise the Australian Archives may contain some details.

John

 


Re: 'Deanville Tramway' at East Point, Darwin

John Dennis
 

Putting the photos online remains in the LRRSA "to do" list.

John


sent from my Sony Xperia


On Sat, 7 Jul 2018, 4:13 PM Stuart Livesey <copytext@...> wrote:
If this horrible link works 

http://www.lrrsa.org.au/Light%20railway%20locations%20in%20South%20Australia%20NT%20and%20Broken%20Hill%2031Dec2015.pdf

you will find some reference to the tramway on page 17 and 18 and there is also a reference to a photo held by the Northern Territory Library.

When I was talking to them this time last year they were in the process of putting their image collection online so you may be able to use that reference to find the the photo.

Stuart


Re: 'Deanville Tramway' at East Point, Darwin

Stuart Livesey
 

If this horrible link works 

http://www.lrrsa.org.au/Light%20railway%20locations%20in%20South%20Australia%20NT%20and%20Broken%20Hill%2031Dec2015.pdf

you will find some reference to the tramway on page 17 and 18 and there is also a reference to a photo held by the Northern Territory Library.

When I was talking to them this time last year they were in the process of putting their image collection online so you may be able to use that reference to find the the photo.

Stuart


Re: 'Deanville Tramway' at East Point, Darwin

Mike Bickford
 

Sam,
 
Could ‘Deanville’ be a miss-spelling of ‘Decauville’?
Decauville was a French company that developed a lightweight portable rail system and the name became a generic name for such systems.
 
Regards
 
Mike Bickford
Murrumburrah NSW
 
 

From: Sam Laybutt
Sent: Friday, July 6, 2018 11:26 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: [LRRSA] 'Deanville Tramway' at East Point, Darwin
 

There is an interpretive sign at East Point in Darwin which references a 'Deanville' tramway used to transport ammunition between the magazine and the WW2 gun emplacements. I have attached a photo of this sign.

 

What is a 'Deanville' tramway? Google didn't really help me in this regard.

 

Also, despite what the sign says, i didn't see any tramway remnants. Will have to have a closer look next time I'm there.


Virus-free. www.avast.com


'Deanville Tramway' at East Point, Darwin

Sam Laybutt
 

There is an interpretive sign at East Point in Darwin which references a 'Deanville' tramway used to transport ammunition between the magazine and the WW2 gun emplacements. I have attached a photo of this sign.


What is a 'Deanville' tramway? Google didn't really help me in this regard.


Also, despite what the sign says, i didn't see any tramway remnants. Will have to have a closer look next time I'm there. 


Re: Derricks 1920s

Petan
 

Using the link John provided suggests horse whim loading arrangement were reasonably common for rail operations. Seems they could be used for any load such as cane or wood or bags of coal etc.

 

Cheers Peter Cokley

 

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Petan
Sent: Thursday, 5 July 2018 9:24 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Derricks 1920s

 

Thanks John!!

I have now googled horse whim so I have just learnt what that is. The horse one was 1922 yet the 1924 advertisement stated hand and motor derricks provided so maybe it could depend on who was writing the tender document.

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Browning
Sent: Thursday, 5 July 2018 5:51 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Derricks 1920s

 

The photo here http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article163129940 shows that horse derricks were powered by a whim arrangement.

John

 


Re: Derricks 1920s

Petan
 

Thanks John!!

I have now googled horse whim so I have just learnt what that is. The horse one was 1922 yet the 1924 advertisement stated hand and motor derricks provided so maybe it could depend on who was writing the tender document.

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Browning
Sent: Thursday, 5 July 2018 5:51 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Derricks 1920s

 

The photo here http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article163129940 shows that horse derricks were powered by a whim arrangement.

John

 


Re: Derricks 1920s

John Browning
 

The photo here http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article163129940 shows that horse derricks were powered by a whim arrangement.

John

 


Derricks 1920s

Petan
 

Location is Crabbes Ck transhipment yards between CSR tramway and NSWGR to Condong mill Tweed Rive for the 1920s. General question on the NSWGR on what was a horse derrick? Another type quoted when I troved was a hand derrick which I assume was a hand operated winch type? Another type identified was an oil engine powered derrick with a picture from 1933 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/94233836

 

Would a horse derrick be where a horse was attached to the winch cable and so hauled on the cable?

 

Trove for horse derrick at Crabbes Ck in 1922 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/190729138

 

Trove stating both motor and hand derrick at Crabbes Ck 1924 https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/191748063

 

A powered gantry crane appeared at Crabbes Ck sugar transhipment yard some years later.

 

Thanks

Peter Cokley


Endnotes

P Cokley
 

Since many seem to be using Endnotes for manage research references, I might share an online help guide from the University of QLD's library website. This URL only goes to the main link so it is up to you if you select the URL found on this link https://web.library.uq.edu.au/research-tools-techniques/referencing/referencing-software/endnote/using-endnote

Cheers
Peter Cokley


Re: Irvinebark QLD

Petan
 

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Petan
Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2018 8:26 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: [LRRSA] Irvinebark QLD

 

Irvinebark Tramway

QSA Series ID 17622 IID 114495 Irvinebank Tramway M.L. No 2575 No 1 1909 4MB (Track survey data) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mAmJD2t8OkNb5upfbiIq3V3NhpoCAeNc/view

QSA Series ID 17622 IID 114496 Irvinebank Tramway M.L. No 2575 No 2 1909 (32MB) (track survey data)  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dAKBCPswtcimoXT2eKrvRh5oiNOo0aOo/view

QSA Series ID 17622 IID 114497 Irvinebank Tramway M.L. No 2575 N0 3 1909 4MB (track survey data) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VTkaDHqVn3ckEtuEB19ODOu0kzEmr3vl/view

QSA Series ID 17624 IID 114721 Irvinebank Yard and works plan showing tramway service 1907 24MB (Town area) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q0VzVFXc_lwK9jlV8QALUQ8ZgiVG8HCe/view

QSA Series ID 17637 IID 328095 Plan of Irvinebank Company's Yard and Works Showing Tramway Service 1907 22MB (Town area) https://drive.google.com/file/d/13R4MfQs5LRBUvkeM6DbE1b3bAbJ-az6j/view

QSA Series ID 17637 IID 328100 Map of Irvinebank showing ML's MHL's RA's and Tramway No Date (8MB) town area https://drive.google.com/file/d/16OmMcrca1IjkonC4MV6f9HvK6WMKrX_f/view

 

The route of the Stannary Hills and Irvinebank mining tramways Nth QLD can be traced on the QSA Item ID 619133 topographical map scale 1.253 440 Atherton Tablelands1944 . Other Nth QLD QR and tramway lines are also on this map including Dimbulah, Silkwood, Cairns, Ravenshoe and part of the Mt Molloy line. Downloadable (8.5 MB) from my Google Drive and courtesy QLD State Archives Runcorn https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByB-ppGeDyvwZ3E1Q0IwN3MzcG8/view  

Dr Ruth Kerr’s (5MB file size) Irvinebank, Mining Community and Centre of an Empire "God Bless John Moffat” PDF https://espace.library.uq.edu.au/view/UQ:201589/s00855804_1984_12_1_141.pdf

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 


Re: Irvinebark QLD

Petan
 

Hi John,

They should be still available later this year as I have no intention of closing down my Google Drive site as it is too useful.

 

Everyone else on this LRRSA group, please note, same for any other railway item I have mentioned in the past. If not, send an email. I know Photobucket is a problem with its new owners which is why I swapped to Google Drive as a public download site for the maps etc I have acquired.

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Dennis
Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2018 8:51 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Irvinebark QLD

 

Hi Peter,

 

I am most interested in the Irvinebank maps, but have just left on a two month road trip. Will these files still be available in September? 

 

John

 

sent from my Sony Xperia

 

On Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 7:56 PM Petan <yahoomail@...> wrote:

Irvinebark Tramway

QSA Series ID 17622 IID 114495 Irvinebank Tramway M.L. No 2575 No 1 1909 4MB (Track survey data) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mAmJD2t8OkNb5upfbiIq3V3NhpoCAeNc/view

QSA Series ID 17622 IID 114496 Irvinebank Tramway M.L. No 2575 No 2 1909 (32MB) (track survey data)  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dAKBCPswtcimoXT2eKrvRh5oiNOo0aOo/view

QSA Series ID 17622 IID 114497 Irvinebank Tramway M.L. No 2575 N0 3 1909 4MB (track survey data) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VTkaDHqVn3ckEtuEB19ODOu0kzEmr3vl/view

QSA Series ID 17624 IID 114721 Irvinebank Yard and works plan showing tramway service 1907 24MB (Town area) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q0VzVFXc_lwK9jlV8QALUQ8ZgiVG8HCe/view

QSA Series ID 17637 IID 328095 Plan of Irvinebank Company's Yard and Works Showing Tramway Service 1907 22MB (Town area) https://drive.google.com/file/d/13R4MfQs5LRBUvkeM6DbE1b3bAbJ-az6j/view

QSA Series ID 17637 IID 328100 Map of Irvinebank showing ML's MHL's RA's and Tramway No Date (8MB) town area https://drive.google.com/file/d/16OmMcrca1IjkonC4MV6f9HvK6WMKrX_f/view

 

The route of the Stannary Hills and Irvinebank mining tramways Nth QLD can be traced on the QSA Item ID 619133 topographical map scale 1.253 440 Atherton Tablelands1944 . Other Nth QLD QR and tramway lines are also on this map including Dimbulah, Silkwood, Cairns, Ravenshoe and part of the Mt Molloy line. Downloadable (8.5 MB) from my Google Drive and courtesy QLD State Archives Runcorn https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByB-ppGeDyvwZ3E1Q0IwN3MzcG8/view  

Dr Ruth Kerr’s (5MB file size) Irvinebank, Mining Community and Centre of an Empire "God Bless John Moffat” PDF https://espace.library.uq.edu.au/view/UQ:201589/s00855804_1984_12_1_141.pdf

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 


Re: Irvinebark QLD

John Dennis
 

Hi Peter,

I am most interested in the Irvinebank maps, but have just left on a two month road trip. Will these files still be available in September? 

John


sent from my Sony Xperia


On Thu, 28 Jun 2018, 7:56 PM Petan <yahoomail@...> wrote:

Irvinebark Tramway

QSA Series ID 17622 IID 114495 Irvinebank Tramway M.L. No 2575 No 1 1909 4MB (Track survey data) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mAmJD2t8OkNb5upfbiIq3V3NhpoCAeNc/view

QSA Series ID 17622 IID 114496 Irvinebank Tramway M.L. No 2575 No 2 1909 (32MB) (track survey data)  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dAKBCPswtcimoXT2eKrvRh5oiNOo0aOo/view

QSA Series ID 17622 IID 114497 Irvinebank Tramway M.L. No 2575 N0 3 1909 4MB (track survey data) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VTkaDHqVn3ckEtuEB19ODOu0kzEmr3vl/view

QSA Series ID 17624 IID 114721 Irvinebank Yard and works plan showing tramway service 1907 24MB (Town area) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q0VzVFXc_lwK9jlV8QALUQ8ZgiVG8HCe/view

QSA Series ID 17637 IID 328095 Plan of Irvinebank Company's Yard and Works Showing Tramway Service 1907 22MB (Town area) https://drive.google.com/file/d/13R4MfQs5LRBUvkeM6DbE1b3bAbJ-az6j/view

QSA Series ID 17637 IID 328100 Map of Irvinebank showing ML's MHL's RA's and Tramway No Date (8MB) town area https://drive.google.com/file/d/16OmMcrca1IjkonC4MV6f9HvK6WMKrX_f/view

 

The route of the Stannary Hills and Irvinebank mining tramways Nth QLD can be traced on the QSA Item ID 619133 topographical map scale 1.253 440 Atherton Tablelands1944 . Other Nth QLD QR and tramway lines are also on this map including Dimbulah, Silkwood, Cairns, Ravenshoe and part of the Mt Molloy line. Downloadable (8.5 MB) from my Google Drive and courtesy QLD State Archives Runcorn https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByB-ppGeDyvwZ3E1Q0IwN3MzcG8/view  

Dr Ruth Kerr’s (5MB file size) Irvinebank, Mining Community and Centre of an Empire "God Bless John Moffat” PDF https://espace.library.uq.edu.au/view/UQ:201589/s00855804_1984_12_1_141.pdf

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 


Irvinebark QLD

Petan
 

Irvinebark Tramway

QSA Series ID 17622 IID 114495 Irvinebank Tramway M.L. No 2575 No 1 1909 4MB (Track survey data) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mAmJD2t8OkNb5upfbiIq3V3NhpoCAeNc/view

QSA Series ID 17622 IID 114496 Irvinebank Tramway M.L. No 2575 No 2 1909 (32MB) (track survey data)  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dAKBCPswtcimoXT2eKrvRh5oiNOo0aOo/view

QSA Series ID 17622 IID 114497 Irvinebank Tramway M.L. No 2575 N0 3 1909 4MB (track survey data) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VTkaDHqVn3ckEtuEB19ODOu0kzEmr3vl/view

QSA Series ID 17624 IID 114721 Irvinebank Yard and works plan showing tramway service 1907 24MB (Town area) https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q0VzVFXc_lwK9jlV8QALUQ8ZgiVG8HCe/view

QSA Series ID 17637 IID 328095 Plan of Irvinebank Company's Yard and Works Showing Tramway Service 1907 22MB (Town area) https://drive.google.com/file/d/13R4MfQs5LRBUvkeM6DbE1b3bAbJ-az6j/view

QSA Series ID 17637 IID 328100 Map of Irvinebank showing ML's MHL's RA's and Tramway No Date (8MB) town area https://drive.google.com/file/d/16OmMcrca1IjkonC4MV6f9HvK6WMKrX_f/view

 

The route of the Stannary Hills and Irvinebank mining tramways Nth QLD can be traced on the QSA Item ID 619133 topographical map scale 1.253 440 Atherton Tablelands1944 . Other Nth QLD QR and tramway lines are also on this map including Dimbulah, Silkwood, Cairns, Ravenshoe and part of the Mt Molloy line. Downloadable (8.5 MB) from my Google Drive and courtesy QLD State Archives Runcorn https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByB-ppGeDyvwZ3E1Q0IwN3MzcG8/view  

Dr Ruth Kerr’s (5MB file size) Irvinebank, Mining Community and Centre of an Empire "God Bless John Moffat” PDF https://espace.library.uq.edu.au/view/UQ:201589/s00855804_1984_12_1_141.pdf

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley