Date   
Re: OFF-TOPIC narrow gauge railway photographs.

Michael C.
 

Hi Kevin,

I never saw the turntable used whilst I was in Darjeeling so perhaps the fishplates are semi-permanent?

I did the ride to Ghum too...

I shared an album with you from the Flickr app. Check it out:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmCfeHTA

Unfortunately the weather was not good.

The following day I left Darjeeling and travelled the full 55 miles of the railway by diesel. Those photos haven't been looked at yet...

Michael Chapman 



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: Kevin Sewell <kevinrsewell@...>
Date: 25/03/2019 00:52 (GMT+00:00)
To: LRRSA <LRRSA@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] OFF-TOPIC narrow gauge railway photographs.

Nice photos.

Am I missing something in the photo of the turntable at Darjeeling?? It seems to be fishplated onto the lead. Surely they don't have to undo the fishplates to turn something? That would lose its novelty very quickly!!

Been there seen that, but in the days of filum, you had to be sparing of taking photos, so I didn't take a photo of the turntable. Did a trip from Darjeeling up to Ghum. Our driver/guide thought we were mad (in all probability so did my wife!!). Would love to do the whole length, however I suspect even for a train tragic it could get tedious. They certainly weren't single seats when we went in 1997, just those hard bench seats. Would have liked a better look at Batasia Loop, and would have liked to have been able to get off and take photos of the train circling, but train only paused and moved on. I was moderately young and fit - perhaps if I'd known it was approaching and the layout, I should have jumped off and bolted up the embankment to get some shots. If only ...

On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 8:29 AM Michael C. via Groups.Io <chapmanmchapman=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Dear All,

Last month I travelled on the 'Indian Magic' tour with Darjeeling Tours. Unfortunately the weather wasn't too kind in and around Darjeeling with lots of cloud and fog.

However; I have started to work through the thousands of images I captured and have uploaded some collections to Flickr.

On-shed at Siliguri Junction is here:

New Jalpaiguri Junction to Tindharia is here:

This is kind of cool:

Tindharia Works including new B Class boilers is here:

Such as:

And they can service a B Class in 100 days!

Tindharia to Ghum in the dark is here:

I like these images:

And on-shed in Darjeeling is here:

This album contains some black-and-white images for a change such as:

And this image is rather special:

There is more to come... including two other narrow gauge railways...

Please take a look if you are interested.

Cheers,

Michael Chapman.



--
Cheers,
Kevin

Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement.

Re: OFF-TOPIC narrow gauge railway photographs.

Kevin Sewell
 

Nice photos.

Am I missing something in the photo of the turntable at Darjeeling?? It seems to be fishplated onto the lead. Surely they don't have to undo the fishplates to turn something? That would lose its novelty very quickly!!

Been there seen that, but in the days of filum, you had to be sparing of taking photos, so I didn't take a photo of the turntable. Did a trip from Darjeeling up to Ghum. Our driver/guide thought we were mad (in all probability so did my wife!!). Would love to do the whole length, however I suspect even for a train tragic it could get tedious. They certainly weren't single seats when we went in 1997, just those hard bench seats. Would have liked a better look at Batasia Loop, and would have liked to have been able to get off and take photos of the train circling, but train only paused and moved on. I was moderately young and fit - perhaps if I'd known it was approaching and the layout, I should have jumped off and bolted up the embankment to get some shots. If only ...


On Sun, Mar 24, 2019 at 8:29 AM Michael C. via Groups.Io <chapmanmchapman=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Dear All,

Last month I travelled on the 'Indian Magic' tour with Darjeeling Tours. Unfortunately the weather wasn't too kind in and around Darjeeling with lots of cloud and fog.

However; I have started to work through the thousands of images I captured and have uploaded some collections to Flickr.

On-shed at Siliguri Junction is here:

New Jalpaiguri Junction to Tindharia is here:

This is kind of cool:

Tindharia Works including new B Class boilers is here:

Such as:

And they can service a B Class in 100 days!

Tindharia to Ghum in the dark is here:

I like these images:

And on-shed in Darjeeling is here:

This album contains some black-and-white images for a change such as:

And this image is rather special:

There is more to come... including two other narrow gauge railways...

Please take a look if you are interested.

Cheers,

Michael Chapman.



--
Cheers,
Kevin

Good judgement comes from experience and experience comes from bad judgement.

Re: OFF-TOPIC narrow gauge railway photographs.

Michael C.
 

Sorry, me again.

Here is another Darjeeling album.

This one gives the viewer a quick look round the town of Darjeeling and a trip on the Joy Train to Batasia Loop and on to Ghum.

On the way back the steam train I was on got stuck behind a diesel hauled train that had derailed in the throat at Darjeeling station!

I shared an album with you from the Flickr app. Check it out:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmCfeHTA

Take a look if you are interested. 

Michael Chapman 



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.

-------- Original message --------
From: "Michael C. via Groups.Io" <chapmanmchapman@...>
Date: 23/03/2019 21:29 (GMT+00:00)
To: lrrsa@groups.io
Subject: [LRRSA] OFF-TOPIC narrow gauge railway photographs.

Dear All,

Last month I travelled on the 'Indian Magic' tour with Darjeeling Tours. Unfortunately the weather wasn't too kind in and around Darjeeling with lots of cloud and fog.

However; I have started to work through the thousands of images I captured and have uploaded some collections to Flickr.

On-shed at Siliguri Junction is here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/albums/72157707415778394

New Jalpaiguri Junction to Tindharia is here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/albums/72157707320327265

This is kind of cool:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/40396721353/in/album-72157707320327265/

Tindharia Works including new B Class boilers is here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/albums/72157704082565502

Such as:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/40431178323/in/album-72157704082565502/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/47396606851/in/album-72157704082565502/

And they can service a B Class in 100 days!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/46481911875/in/album-72157704082565502/

Tindharia to Ghum in the dark is here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/albums/72157679440443748

I like these images:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/33546310658/in/album-72157679440443748/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/47422609931/in/album-72157679440443748/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/47430122811/in/album-72157679440443748/ - three trains!

And on-shed in Darjeeling is here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/albums/72157707743026914

This album contains some black-and-white images for a change such as:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/46726628354/in/album-72157707743026914/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/40483720523/in/album-72157707743026914/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/32507805737/in/album-72157707743026914/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/47449607451/in/album-72157707743026914/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/47397263272/in/album-72157707743026914/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/32508439687/in/album-72157707743026914/

And this image is rather special:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/47397807492/in/album-72157707743026914/ - what better way to spend a morning?!

There is more to come... including two other narrow gauge railways...

Please take a look if you are interested.

Cheers,

Michael Chapman.

OFF-TOPIC narrow gauge railway photographs.

Michael C.
 

Dear All,

Last month I travelled on the 'Indian Magic' tour with Darjeeling Tours. Unfortunately the weather wasn't too kind in and around Darjeeling with lots of cloud and fog.

However; I have started to work through the thousands of images I captured and have uploaded some collections to Flickr.

On-shed at Siliguri Junction is here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/albums/72157707415778394

New Jalpaiguri Junction to Tindharia is here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/albums/72157707320327265

This is kind of cool:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/40396721353/in/album-72157707320327265/

Tindharia Works including new B Class boilers is here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/albums/72157704082565502

Such as:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/40431178323/in/album-72157704082565502/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/47396606851/in/album-72157704082565502/

And they can service a B Class in 100 days!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/46481911875/in/album-72157704082565502/

Tindharia to Ghum in the dark is here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/albums/72157679440443748

I like these images:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/33546310658/in/album-72157679440443748/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/47422609931/in/album-72157679440443748/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/47430122811/in/album-72157679440443748/ - three trains!

And on-shed in Darjeeling is here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/albums/72157707743026914

This album contains some black-and-white images for a change such as:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/46726628354/in/album-72157707743026914/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/40483720523/in/album-72157707743026914/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/32507805737/in/album-72157707743026914/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/47449607451/in/album-72157707743026914/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/47397263272/in/album-72157707743026914/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/32508439687/in/album-72157707743026914/

And this image is rather special:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/55958391@N07/47397807492/in/album-72157707743026914/ - what better way to spend a morning?!

There is more to come... including two other narrow gauge railways...

Please take a look if you are interested.

Cheers,

Michael Chapman.

Light Railways 266

John Dennis
 

The April issue of Light Railways, No. 266, was scheduled to be packed tonight. Unfortunately due to a problem at the printers the magazine is not available. We are hopeful the mailout will be made on Thursday of next week.

For those planning to attend one of our meetings, the meeting topics have been uploaded here: http://lrrsa.org.au/LRR_Meetings.html

John Dennis

Re: Carnarvon Tramway - unidentified relics

Sam Laybutt
 

Hi John,

Thank you very much for that. I think what I found is exactly what was described - it's like that the 'long culvert bridge' refers to the main bridge over the channel. 

Cheers
Sam


From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> on behalf of John Dennis <jdennis412@...>
Sent: Thursday, 14 March 2019 10:17 AM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Carnarvon Tramway - unidentified relics
 
Sam,

The August 1999 ARHS Bulletin has a lengthy article on the Carnarvon Tramway. In this article it is stated:

Flooding of the river had caused many
problems over the years for the tramway
operations. So, in 1934 when the tramway
embankments were again damaged by
flooding, a 34-chain deviation was built and
the long culvert bridge (i.e., over Whitlock/
Oyster Creek) extended by two bays. This
also resulted in two of the small culvert
bridges being bypassed and thus being
redundant have deteriorated so that only
piles and some cross beams remain in 1995.

Perhaps what you are seeing are the remnants described in the last sentence? Although I suspect that the crossing of Oyster Creek might have been more like one-third of the way across Babbage Island from the long bridge to the jetty. 

John

On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 at 22:30, Sam Laybutt <crazyknightsfan@...> wrote:
Hello LRRSA,

I went for a walk along the Carnarvon Tramway Trail last week and spotted some remains of what looks like an earlier timber bridge(?) on Whitlock Island, just to the west of the main bridge. See attached photograph and diagram.

I haven't been able to find any information online that would indicate what the back story might be, so hoping someone here might know. The red line on the diagram denotes a possible earlier alignment for the tramway across the mud flats.

Cheers
Sam

Re: Carnarvon Tramway - unidentified relics

John Dennis
 

Sam,

The August 1999 ARHS Bulletin has a lengthy article on the Carnarvon Tramway. In this article it is stated:

Flooding of the river had caused many
problems over the years for the tramway
operations. So, in 1934 when the tramway
embankments were again damaged by
flooding, a 34-chain deviation was built and
the long culvert bridge (i.e., over Whitlock/
Oyster Creek) extended by two bays. This
also resulted in two of the small culvert
bridges being bypassed and thus being
redundant have deteriorated so that only
piles and some cross beams remain in 1995.

Perhaps what you are seeing are the remnants described in the last sentence? Although I suspect that the crossing of Oyster Creek might have been more like one-third of the way across Babbage Island from the long bridge to the jetty. 

John


On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 at 22:30, Sam Laybutt <crazyknightsfan@...> wrote:
Hello LRRSA,

I went for a walk along the Carnarvon Tramway Trail last week and spotted some remains of what looks like an earlier timber bridge(?) on Whitlock Island, just to the west of the main bridge. See attached photograph and diagram.

I haven't been able to find any information online that would indicate what the back story might be, so hoping someone here might know. The red line on the diagram denotes a possible earlier alignment for the tramway across the mud flats.

Cheers
Sam

Carnarvon Tramway - unidentified relics

Sam Laybutt
 

Hello LRRSA,

I went for a walk along the Carnarvon Tramway Trail last week and spotted some remains of what looks like an earlier timber bridge(?) on Whitlock Island, just to the west of the main bridge. See attached photograph and diagram.

I haven't been able to find any information online that would indicate what the back story might be, so hoping someone here might know. The red line on the diagram denotes a possible earlier alignment for the tramway across the mud flats.

Cheers
Sam

Re: Gairloch aerial tramway

Petan
 

Thanks John!

 

I find it interesting that Knox, sitting in his Sydney office, had this sort of detail in his head, certainly a General Manager who earned his pay!

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

 

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Browning
Sent: Friday, 1 March 2019 5:53 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: [LRRSA] Gairloch aerial tramway

 

I believe this was a “flying fox” type aerial tramway (not CSR Victoria Mill wire tramway 1890 but Fanning Nankivill and Co.)

“The tramlines consist of stout wires suspended from upright pillars on each side of the bank, these wires being continued at either end till level with the high land above the banks. . . It is possible to convoy as much as 50 tons of cane across the river by means of the suspended tramline within the hour.” http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13561405   

John

 

Gairloch aerial tramway

John Browning
 

I believe this was a “flying fox” type aerial tramway (not CSR Victoria Mill wire tramway 1890 but Fanning Nankivill and Co.)

“The tramlines consist of stout wires suspended from upright pillars on each side of the bank, these wires being continued at either end till level with the high land above the banks. . . It is possible to convoy as much as 50 tons of cane across the river by means of the suspended tramline within the hour.” http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article13561405   

John

 

CSR Victoria Mill wire tramway 1890

Petan
 

Wondering if the wire tramway that was used at Gairloch around 1890 for taking the cane across the Herbert River near the Victoria Mill near Ingham QLD, was of the ‘Self-Acting Tramway’ style of  wagons on tramway tracks or an aerial device between towers each side of river flying fox style? The context below suggests tramway rails? My Tweed research shows negotiations around the Terranora plateau on the northern bank of the Tweed River around this time. The EW Know would be Edward William Knox (1847–1933).

 

My source is John Kerr’s Notes;  1890: EW Knox to McLean, Victoria - 'Is the wire tramway that was used at Gairloch for taking the cane across the River still in position?' We have a request for a tramway on the Tweed to convey cane from the tableland to navigable water and the grades are too steep for an ordinary line, but it may be worth considering making an offer for that at Gairloch' (CSR Goondi corresp.: DL/JDK)

 

The data base https://researchdata.ands.org.au/john-douglas-kerr-history-database/1326079?source=suggested_datasets

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

Vale Bob Deskins

Petan
 

Rail historian Robert Loren DESKINS,  Aged 74 Years.

Family and friends are invited to his Funeral Service at Hemmant Crematorium, 500 Hemmant Tingalpa Rd, Hemmant, Wednesday 13th, February 2019, commencing at 2.00pm. https://www.couriermail.com.au/classifieds/ad/3149143/  

 

Bob Gough advises Robert Deskins was a long time member of the ARHS, ANGRMS, BTMS and LRRSA

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

John Kerr's database

Petan
 

John Kerr's full database up to 1990s etc is now on the internet through Fryer Library at The University of Queensland. This is a far more extensive and up to date database compared to the c1970 version at State Library QLD. John died 2003 so obviously only up to that date.

Cheers Peter Cokley

https://researchdata.ands.org.au/john-douglas-kerr-history-database/1326079?source=suggested_datasets

 

Re: John Paff

Petan
 

All ok now as I have John Paff’s details.

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Petan
Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2019 5:29 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: [LRRSA] John Paff

 

I have lost John Paff’s email, so John, can you please email me at petanoz@...

Usual topic of interest to both of us.

Cheers

Peter Cokley

_._,_._,_

Light Railways 265

John Dennis
 

Light Railways 265 was handed over to Australia Post this morning. It's another a great looking issue The main articles are: Robb & Co’s Cudgen Sugar Operations (Northern Rivers of NSW), the provocatively titled "Does away with tramways!" which has an international feel, comparing Rubicon and Charrning Creek in NZ, and finally "Some unusual skips at Black Jack colliery". Plus, of course, the usual Industrial Railway News, Letters, Field Reports, Heritage & Tourist News, and finishing up with Looking Back, with an interesting couple of photographs of the construction of the dam wall at what is now Eildon Reservoir. 
Members can expect it to begin dropping through their letter boxes shortly, while for those who do not subscribe it will be at newsagents any day now, or available from our online shop at lrrsa.org.au.

John Dennis

John Paff

Petan
 

I have lost John Paff’s email, so John, can you please email me at petanoz@...

 

Usual topic of interest to both of us.

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

Re: 1890s cane trucks

Petan
 

Hi John and everyone,

 

Thanks John for all this lovely help!!!

 

Glad you offered some advice on the Terranora ‘funicular’/ ‘balanced incline’ terminology topic as I have seen a few versions of that in Tweed Museum and CSR records and so will eventually need to settle on a standard term for my LR articles. John Armstrong’s 1976 Tweed ARHS Bulletin article used both funicular and self-acting incline for the Cowan/ Joubert one at Terranora. Caleb Marks was born in NSW South Coast mid 1860s and so trips back to visit family etc meant he was familiar with what he termed in his 1945 memoirs (see following Trove) as the self-acting coal tram at Mount Kiera and then put in what he termed a self-acting (sugar) tram at Terranora. Thomas Fraser asked CSR for ‘Trucks and Wire Rope for Incline’. An 1892 newspaper terms Cowan’s one as Cable Tram. So John, the ‘balanced incline’ term will solve that terminology problem for me!

 

Marks’ 1945 memoirs  https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/194543056   

 

John, you asked if I was sure these bogie trucks had been purchased by CSR for cane haulage? Yes I am sure and I saw that at the end of the handwritten Duranbah Tramway League’s 6 July 1894 letter to cane inspector Dowling. That was the one with Duranbah tramway route details and from CSR’s Tweed ‘Letter Book’ and I emailed that letter to you last year and will send again later today as I now suspect you were in the UK at the time so maybe enjoying that trip. I’ll also email Thomas Fraser’s handwritten letter, also from CSR files, with his comments that the picture I posted to this LRRSA group was from Fowlers Catalogue and was the style of Truck used by Marks and is the design the Terranora farmers preferred. As you wrote John, maybe Fraser was not referring to the trucks being braked when he referred to ‘the style of trucks being used by Marks’, and so it was the wagon construction style Fraser wanted. That makes sense and thanks for the suggestion!

 

Now the question is what the handwritten Duranbah Tramway League’s 6 July 1894 letter meant by the bogie trucks that should suit Mr. C. Marks and the single trucks with brakes now used by him, especially the term bogie and single trucks, where single is written in the context of being opposite to bogie.

 

No locomotives have been identified with the Duranbah line which evidence suggests lasted around 10 years from 1894.

 

John, liked your suggested method of gravitating the loaded trucks down downhill on the brakes and thanks for pointing out braked trucks would most likely have to be crewed to be used effectively.

 

One 1895 Trove describes a Terranora ‘balanced incline’ operation but does not name the farmer  https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/61273803

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of John Browning
Sent: Saturday, 26 January 2019 9:00 PM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] 1890s cane trucks

 

Dear Peter

 

> Need a bit of background advice please regarding 2 foot gauge 1890s cane trucks and how common was the fitting of brakes and the difference between bogie trucks and what were termed in 1890s as single trucks?

Cane trucks with bogies did not see any general use in Australia so must be regarded as unconventional.

Bogie wagons were often used by sugar mills for the transport of bagged raw sugar and large items such as machinery.

Cane trucks with brakes would be used with horse haulage (and potentially for gravitation).

As braked trucks would most likely have to be manned to be used effectively, it would be doubly expensive to purchase them in the first place and then operate them.

The traditional use of sprags where necessary would have generally overcome the absence of brakes in most cases, particularly where locomotives were used.

 

> The CSR line in question, Duranbah Tweed River, included a 1 in 46 grade for a continuous distance of 94 chains (1891 metres) down ‘alongside’ Cudgen Rd from its junction with Duranbah Rd, then across to the wharf near what is now Tweed Valley Way , formally the Pacific Highway. Then a 11km barge trip to CSR’s Condong sugar mill.

I take it that no locomotives were in use on this line. If it was a continuous down grade and horses were used, it would be tempting to gravitate the loaded trucks down and haul them back with horse power. Brakes would have been advantageous.

 

> Naturally the funiculars mentioned below were also steep, so the question of brakes is of interest. I understand the funiculars also had a brake device on the cable drum gear.

I am not sure if ‘funicular’ is the correct term. It usually applies to a cable incline railway with a passenger car permanently attached to each end of the rope and equipped with a powered cable reel, as either car could be the heavier depending on traffic.

I think ‘balanced incline’ might be a better term for the cable inclines at Terranora where the descending loads would usually be heavier than the ascending empty trucks. These inclines would only require braking on the cable reel.

Vehicle brakes are irrelevant to such inclines but could well have been useful if horse haulage was in use on the line beyond the top of the incline.

 

> I am almost finished preparing an article for LRRSA on the 1890s Duranbah CSR tramway in the Tweed River area. The CSR Tweed Letter Book (6 July 1894) notes the trucks ordered for Duranbah were bogie trucks and Duranbah farmers wanted to swap them with what they termed in their handwritten letter as ‘single trucks, with brakes’, that were used by Caleb Marks who was one of the Terranora funicular cane tramway farmers.

> The same CSR Letter Book has a letter from another Terranora funicular cane tramway farmer, Thomas Fraser, to Condong mill manager William Isaacs, dated 30 March 1895. The letter included a picture taken from what Fraser described as ‘Fowlers Catalogue’, of the type of wagon Fraser wanted. More to the point, Fraser states it is the style of truck used by Caleb Marks. The Fowler catalogue labelled the wagon as ‘Colonial Type, with bracket ends, load 20 Cwts’.

As Peter Neve has diplomatically pointed out, the type of truck illustrated has no brakes so if the story is correct, Fraser was not referring to the trucks being braked when he referred to ‘the style of trucks being used by Marks’.

 

> Forgot to mention the bogie trucks originally ordered for Duranbah also had brakes, so the proposed swap was for Duranbah’s bogie trucks with brakes for Caleb Marks’ single trucks, with brakes.

Are you sure that these bogie trucks had been purchased by CSR for cane haulage?

 

Looking forward to seeing the article.

 

John

 

Re: 1890s cane trucks

John Browning
 

Dear Peter

 

> Need a bit of background advice please regarding 2 foot gauge 1890s cane trucks and how common was the fitting of brakes and the difference between bogie trucks and what were termed in 1890s as single trucks?

Cane trucks with bogies did not see any general use in Australia so must be regarded as unconventional.

Bogie wagons were often used by sugar mills for the transport of bagged raw sugar and large items such as machinery.

Cane trucks with brakes would be used with horse haulage (and potentially for gravitation).

As braked trucks would most likely have to be manned to be used effectively, it would be doubly expensive to purchase them in the first place and then operate them.

The traditional use of sprags where necessary would have generally overcome the absence of brakes in most cases, particularly where locomotives were used.

 

> The CSR line in question, Duranbah Tweed River, included a 1 in 46 grade for a continuous distance of 94 chains (1891 metres) down ‘alongside’ Cudgen Rd from its junction with Duranbah Rd, then across to the wharf near what is now Tweed Valley Way , formally the Pacific Highway. Then a 11km barge trip to CSR’s Condong sugar mill.

I take it that no locomotives were in use on this line. If it was a continuous down grade and horses were used, it would be tempting to gravitate the loaded trucks down and haul them back with horse power. Brakes would have been advantageous.

 

> Naturally the funiculars mentioned below were also steep, so the question of brakes is of interest. I understand the funiculars also had a brake device on the cable drum gear.

I am not sure if ‘funicular’ is the correct term. It usually applies to a cable incline railway with a passenger car permanently attached to each end of the rope and equipped with a powered cable reel, as either car could be the heavier depending on traffic.

I think ‘balanced incline’ might be a better term for the cable inclines at Terranora where the descending loads would usually be heavier than the ascending empty trucks. These inclines would only require braking on the cable reel.

Vehicle brakes are irrelevant to such inclines but could well have been useful if horse haulage was in use on the line beyond the top of the incline.

 

> I am almost finished preparing an article for LRRSA on the 1890s Duranbah CSR tramway in the Tweed River area. The CSR Tweed Letter Book (6 July 1894) notes the trucks ordered for Duranbah were bogie trucks and Duranbah farmers wanted to swap them with what they termed in their handwritten letter as ‘single trucks, with brakes’, that were used by Caleb Marks who was one of the Terranora funicular cane tramway farmers.

> The same CSR Letter Book has a letter from another Terranora funicular cane tramway farmer, Thomas Fraser, to Condong mill manager William Isaacs, dated 30 March 1895. The letter included a picture taken from what Fraser described as ‘Fowlers Catalogue’, of the type of wagon Fraser wanted. More to the point, Fraser states it is the style of truck used by Caleb Marks. The Fowler catalogue labelled the wagon as ‘Colonial Type, with bracket ends, load 20 Cwts’.

As Peter Neve has diplomatically pointed out, the type of truck illustrated has no brakes so if the story is correct, Fraser was not referring to the trucks being braked when he referred to ‘the style of trucks being used by Marks’.

 

> Forgot to mention the bogie trucks originally ordered for Duranbah also had brakes, so the proposed swap was for Duranbah’s bogie trucks with brakes for Caleb Marks’ single trucks, with brakes.

Are you sure that these bogie trucks had been purchased by CSR for cane haulage?

 

Looking forward to seeing the article.

 

John

 

February LRRSA Meeting details

John Dennis
 

Light Railways 265 is getting close to be sent out to our members.

There are some great topics in the meetings this month, ranging from lime sands tramways on the Eyre Peninsula, to Dams of Sydney and their light railways, on to recent cane tram operations in Bundaberg, and More South Gippsland Tramways. Come along to a meeting and be entertained, educated, and enjoy the camaraderie of like-minded people.

The meeting details for February are here: http://lrrsa.org.au/LRR_Meetings.html

John Dennis

Re: 1890s cane trucks

John Dennis
 

Peter,

That "dodgy" link to the photo might be because you uploaded to the yahoogroup, not to groups.io

John

On Wed, 23 Jan 2019 at 11:37, Petan <yahoomail@...> wrote:

Image of 1890s cane truck from Fowler Catalogue now on my Google Drive as the earlier link to the group’s files is dodgy.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DDe-L2Z0RPF4-BVfwM-TaD4gcnRH5pbb/view

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

 

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Petan
Sent: Wednesday, 23 January 2019 9:21 AM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] 1890s cane trucks

 

Forgot to mention the bogie trucks originally ordered for Duranbah also had brakes, so the proposed swap was for Duranbah’s bogie trucks with brakes for Caleb Marks’ single trucks, with brakes.

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

From: LRRSA@groups.io <LRRSA@groups.io> On Behalf Of Petan
Sent: Wednesday, 23 January 2019 8:55 AM
To: LRRSA@groups.io
Subject: [LRRSA] 1890s cane trucks

 

Need a bit of background advice please regarding 2 foot gauge 1890s cane trucks and how common was the fitting of brakes and the difference between bogie trucks and what were termed in 1890s as single trucks?

 

The CSR line in question, Duranbah Tweed River, included a 1 in 46 grade for a continuous distance of 94 chains (1891 metres) down ‘alongside’ Cudgen Rd from its junction with Duranbah Rd, then across to the wharf near what is now Tweed Valley Way , formally the Pacific Highway. Then a 11km barge trip to CSR’s Condong sugar mill. Naturally the funiculars mentioned below were also steep, so the question of brakes is of interest. I understand the funiculars also had a brake device on the cable drum gear.

 

I am almost finished preparing an article for LRRSA on the 1890s Duranbah CSR tramway in the Tweed River area. The CSR Tweed Letter Book (6 July 1894) notes the trucks ordered for Duranbah were bogie trucks and Duranbah farmers wanted to swap them with what they termed in their handwritten letter as ‘single trucks, with brakes’, that were used by Caleb Marks who was one of the Terranora funicular cane tramway farmers.

 

The same CSR Letter Book has a letter from another Terranora funicular cane tramway farmer, Thomas Fraser, to Condong mill manager William Isaacs, dated 30 March 1895. The letter included a picture taken from what Fraser described as ‘Fowlers Catalogue’, of the type of wagon Fraser wanted. More to the point, Fraser states it is the style of truck used by Caleb Marks. The Fowler catalogue labelled the wagon as ‘Colonial Type, with bracket ends, load 20 Cwts’.

 

I just added a copy of the Fowler Catalogue image, sourced from Fraser’s letter, to this group’s files

https://au.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/LRRSA/files/SE%20QLD%20%20or%20NTH%20Rivers%20NSW%20/Fraser%20wagon%20image%20label.jpg

 

Any help gratefully received. My Cudgen Robb & Co tramway article is in the next LR and the Duranbah one for LR is almost done. My other individual Tweed CSR tramway articles for LR,  (Crabbes Creek, Condong area and Terranora etc) are partly done.

 

Thanks

Peter Cokley