Date   
A small request - YouTube

Phil Rickard
 

The below e-mail has meandered its way through cyberspace from England and is worth reading.  My apologies to those whom have received it via other channels.

I might add that John Raby's videos are excellent. There are many of light railway interest, in out-of-the-way places, plus heavier railway material. Might I recommend his Chinese "Jincheng Reed Railway".  If everyone who reads this subscribed he would reach the magic milestone. Subscribing to his YouTube channel costs nothing!  But it does give John some pin-money in return for the excellent service he renders.
I realise you have to endure a ten-second ad (which one can usually truncate) to reach the video, but, fair dinkum, I think it's worth it. Give it a go.

I hope you continue to enjoy his videos. 

cheers   Phil Rickard

Subject: A small request - YouTube
This is a revised version of what I wrote on my Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/john.raby.71

I will shortly 'go dark' on YouTube. Until 20 February 2018, I am able to 'monetise' my videos on YouTube and earn a small sum of around £60 every year or 18 months as a ‘reward' for my efford to record, edit and upload my videos to be watched freely on YouTube. I have 662 subscribers and 285,982 (assumed lifetime) views of my videos but that's not enough for YouTube. According to them: 

"On February 20th, 2018, ... On that date, channels with fewer than 1,000 subs or 4,000 watch hours will no longer be able to earn money on YouTube."

But I have only 662 subs!

My response will be to make all my videos unlisted. That way, I hope that YouTube won't be able to make any money out of my content. I can choose public, unlisted or private setting for videos and all are currently public. When I go unlisted, I would expect only those with the links to be able to see them. (Let me know if you need a link.) If YouTube sticks with its punishment of small niche videomakers, I will consider making my videos private or even deleting them... But, we are not there yet. My first step is to 'unlist' all of them on 20 February. 

Prior to that, you can see my videos on my channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3Z8-l1CDAMKQR5QM4fVqOQ

In response to this post it was suggested that I might want to ask people to subscribe to get me up to the 1000 mark and numbers have crept up a bit to 675 subscribers. Well, I think reaching 1000 before 20 February is a tall ask but with this email, I’ll give it a try. I’d be most grateful if you would visit my YouTube channel and subscribe.

My videos on YouTube range from China and Java in the mainline steam era to the last train at Rongshan, UK preserved steam, Rumania, Eritrea and Cuba. Before the YouTube bosses decided to get vindictive, I was planning to put most of my DVD collection on YouTube and you can already see some of these there.
I hope you enjoy the videos (and please subscribe).
John
John Raby
Marigold Cottage
77 Church Lane
Sutton-on-Sea
Lincs   LN12 2JA

01507 442151
07480 414346
"


Re: Battery loco operator required

John Browning
 

Philip Graham has kindly reminded me that news of the order for large battery locomotive(s) for the Sydney Metro project first emerged in 2016. The manufacturer is CRRC Zhuzhou Locomotive Co Ltd.

 

This Chinese web page shows a couple of photos of the type but I am unsure if one has been delivered to Sydney yet. http://www.gongyetoutiao.com/xw/html/4732.shtml

 

John

Re: An introduction and a question

Steve O'Dea
 

Hi Stuart,

 

I did not find any of the second tier in my initial searches but since joining this group I have been given significant help and contact details of both companies and individuals who can help.

 

I’ll update the group when I have further information; at this stage it is looking very positive!

 

Cheers,

Steve

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 6 February 2018 1:40 PM
To: Light Railways Yahoo
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: An introduction and a question

 

 

Hi Steve

 

While I imagine the big primary contractors of Australia aren’t ideal for your price, what about some of the second tier guys who actually do the work. I see Taylor Rail support big projects, but also medium sized ones as well. They may have a more ‘practical’ approach to what you need on the ground. McLeod rail is a Victorian company who will turn their hand to pretty much anything. I’m sure there are other companies scattered across Australia who may well be suitable for your task and perhaps closer to your site.. The ARA, as peak industry body, might be able to point you in the right direction.

 

Good luck

 

Stuart

Re: An introduction and a question

Stuart Thyer
 

Hi Steve

While I imagine the big primary contractors of Australia aren’t ideal for your price, what about some of the second tier guys who actually do the work. I see Taylor Rail support big projects, but also medium sized ones as well. They may have a more ‘practical’ approach to what you need on the ground. McLeod rail is a Victorian company who will turn their hand to pretty much anything. I’m sure there are other companies scattered across Australia who may well be suitable for your task and perhaps closer to your site.. The ARA, as peak industry body, might be able to point you in the right direction.

Good luck

Stuart

Re: : Re: Bundaberg

Petan
 

Hi Folks, thanks for all the replies as they have assisted my progress!

Cheers
Peter Cokley

Re: Battery loco operator required

John Browning
 

Thanks Stuart.

Very interesting – it implies drivers.

 

While it is conceivable that battery locomotives could be used on construction, I suspect that the requirement might be for operating a small remote-controlled unit for moving the new stock around at the Rouse Hill maintenance depot.

 

There seems to be a proliferation of such units occurring and little is known about them. For example, Bombardier have one at their Wulkuraka maintenance depot near Ipswich for the new Queensland electric trains. It met with a slight accident last year as the attachment shows.

Variations on the theme are also being supplied for use at light rail depots, wheel lathe facilities and possibly freight terminals.

 

John

 

 

Re: : Battery loco operator required

Philip G Graham
 

I would think that this is for the Sydney Metro depot shunter and recovery loco. There was one of these units, a centre-cab Bo-Bo, purchased recently from China that is capable of running in battery mode and recharging via the running supply current. It can haul a full train consist over the Metro ruling grade.  There is only one at this stage, but probably will need another with the coming expansion.

Battery electric locos for the construction stage, if used, are of a different configuration with differing load factors. There is no indication yet, whether there will be construction rail used in the TBM tunnels or if diesel traction or battery electric will be used.

-PGG-

Battery loco operator required

Stuart Thyer
 

Seen in a recent advert. 

"Our client is a key player in the rail industry and they are looking for experienced Shunters/Locomotive Drivers to work in Rail Projects arounds Sydney Metro including the Norwest Rail Link. The assignment requires the successful candidate to be able commence ASAP and is paying $35 per hour. This role will be operating a battery operated locomotive.  The employment process is being managed by Concept Engineering, who appear to be a specialist engineering industry employment agency.

I wonder if the battery locomotive is for any of the underground projects within Sydney, or the north west rail project, perhaps a shunting locomotive at their Rouse Hill depot?

Stuart Thyer

Re: : An introduction and a question

Brian
 

Having a balloon at each sounds good in theory, but you end up with massive wheel wear running in the same direction all the time, its better to run in the opposite direction back and forth to equalize wheel wear.
 
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
 

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 8:54 PM
Subject: [LRRSA] Re:: An introduction and a question
 


G'day Steve,

Sounds like you need something like the RFIRT had in Argentina until recently - well, 20 years ago.  750mm gauge, over 250km each way, up to 2000 ton coal trains and steam hauled. Fairly basic track.
https://www.advanced-steam.org/5at/modern-steam/modern-steam-miscellany/rio-turbio-railway/

The problem is finding the equipment - I daresay you'd have no problem finding the crew!  I suspect you'd be inundated by blokes (and a few women) who'd do your driving and firing for the fun of it !

Have loops at each end - no need for a loco front and back. At 30kph you'd do a couple of return trips in the day - problem solved. It's the equipment that's the snag.    Ex- South African 2ft gauge DE's?  or maybe hire some NGG16 Garratts from Sandstone Estate or North Wales?  Qld sugar in their off-season?

cheers   Phil

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: : An introduction and a question

Phil Rickard
 

G'day Steve,

Sounds like you need something like the RFIRT had in Argentina until recently - well, 20 years ago.  750mm gauge, over 250km each way, up to 2000 ton coal trains and steam hauled. Fairly basic track.
https://www.advanced-steam.org/5at/modern-steam/modern-steam-miscellany/rio-turbio-railway/

The problem is finding the equipment - I daresay you'd have no problem finding the crew!  I suspect you'd be inundated by blokes (and a few women) who'd do your driving and firing for the fun of it !

Have loops at each end - no need for a loco front and back. At 30kph you'd do a couple of return trips in the day - problem solved. It's the equipment that's the snag.    Ex- South African 2ft gauge DE's?  or maybe hire some NGG16 Garratts from Sandstone Estate or North Wales?  Qld sugar in their off-season?

cheers   Phil

 

Re: Bundaberg

Tony Smith
 

And using Google Maps and their Street View function, there is any number of points along Tweed Valley Way (the former Pacific Highway) where you can replicate that view of the 44s with the same hills in the background.



From: "Eddie Oliver eoliver@... [LRRSA]"
To: LRRSA@...
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2018, 19:04
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Bundaberg

 

The imagery at https://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/ is remarkably complete in displaying the remains of the Condong line (just start at the north end of Murwillumbah yard)






Re: An introduction and a question

Steve O'Dea
 

Brian,

 

You are spot on.  You have stated precisely why we should go with rail.

 

I just need to find someone who can design and build it within an acceptable budget.  I called the Australian Sugar Milling Council last week but the person I needed to speak to was out of the office and has yet to get back to me – I will be following up next week.  Any contacts you can suggest would be much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Steve

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Saturday, 3 February 2018 12:01 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 

 

Mills do build there own new lines from time to time, there are companies that would do that type of work I can’t remember at the moment there names, what you might want to consider, at the moment Mackay Sugar is converting the original 3’6” gauge line that ran from Mackay out to Marian this line was relayed with I think it was 82lb rail by Queensland Railways, Mackay Sugar was planning to have concrete sleepers made to handle that size rail, normally 2ft. gauge cane lines use second hand 60lb rail which is good for 10t. axle load, by using heavier rail it would allow you to o to 18t.-20t. axle load

In comparison looking at the cost of building 2ft. gauge line as opposed to build a weather proof gravel haul road the cost per kilometre is probably not going to be all that much different, when it comes to maintaining the haul road you would need at least 2 graders working all the tie as well as at least 2 water trucks to keep the dust down as well as to help keep the compaction at a stable level, when it comes to wet weather you may find hauling by road might have to stop or run the risk of doing considerable damage to the haul road, on the other hand a 2ft. gauge line 60klm long you could maintain it with 1 Tamper and 2-3 decent sized ballast hoppers and a small regulator.

I was thinking in hind site perhaps using bottom discharge hoppers might be a better option as this would allow a quicker unloading time and less cost in comparison to setting up a tippler operation, because you are basically running a flat ground all the wagons need not have a braking system, you could control them with the loco braking such as the dynamic braking with the UM6B’s diesel electric locos.

 

Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.

 

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 12:11 AM

Subject: RE: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 




Brian,

 

Thanks for that insight. The terrain we are dealing with is essentially flat… with a ~40m height variance between the loading end and the unloading end (in the wrong direction naturally).

 

Are there any new tracks planned or under construction in the cane fields or are you just using existing tracks?  If new ones who is doing them?

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2018 7:41 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 

 

Steve,

I drive cane loco’s for a living it varies from mill to mill, most the 40t. locos as in Eimco’s or converted Walkers DH’s haul anything from 1000t. to 1500t. on average terrain, the best set-up would be push pull or having a loco at each end operated by one driver the alternate loco operating under remote radio control, that way you equalize the wheel wear factor, you will still need loops at each end more so for cutting out shop wagons should any wagon have a problem.

The comparison of road transport to rail, obviously there is probably a greater cost to build the track in the first place, but the ongoing maintenance cost is less then maintaining a road especially a gravel haul road, trucks will wear out tyres much sooner then rail wheels needing re-machining and eventual replacement.

If you base a comparison on the diesel electric loco’s I suggested those loco’s would burn around 1.5 litres of diesel per kilometre hauling 1000t. load and less on the return empty, on average terrain.

A truck by comparison  hauling around 50t.to 100t. per trip might burn around 2 litre per 5klm

 

Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.

 

Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 8:29 PM

Subject: RE: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 





Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for that feedback.  I need all the help I can get on both construction and operational issues!

 

If pushing back isn’t viable would an option of two engines (one at either end) resolve that or is it just better to suck up the initial capital and put a loop in each end?

 

I’m looking at 5,000 tonnes of ore per day on a six days per week haulage and one day of maintenance.  A train hauling 1,000t would have to make five round trips (some sugar cane trains haul 1,000 tonnes) and anything more would be a bonus in reducing the number of trips.

 

Budget is simple – capital plus operating cost must be materially less than off highway road haulage.   Additionally the capital cost must be significantly less than the cost of moving the processing plant 60km (another valid alternative).

 

Budget estimate for road construction is $20M, operating cost is ~$12M per year (including road maintenance), mine life 10 – 15 years.  So total cost of ~$140M to $200M over ten to fifteen years.  We need to use the worst case – ten years – so work on a budget of $140M.

 

Can a light rail system be constructed for less than $50M (rail/signalling/unloading – engines and wagons not included as they will be covered by the operating cost in the same way the trucks are) or $1M/km?  If not why not (what are the key costs taking it over that figure) and if so how?

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2018 4:48 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 

 

Steve,

It really comes down to what sort of budget you have, but running 60klm. and then pushing all the way back isn’t a viable option., allowing for the size train you would need to haul 4000t. of ore daily.

They have several Diesel electric 3ft. gauge locos for sale in South Africa UM6B General Electric see photos here:-

They also have a couple of hundred ‘C’ class wagons which were formerly use to haul Limestone and were designed for tipple dump operation

See photos here:-

Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.

 

Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:53 PM

Subject: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 






Hi LRRSA,

 

I’m a mining engineer and was taught about rail systems at uni… used them underground in a few old mines (and one new one)… was fascinated by the ABT railway on the west coast of Tasmania… and am increasingly looking at historic as well as current systems to find the most appropriate solution to a given project.  

 

I am currently working on a mining project in WA where we need to haul a modest amount of ore a modest distance (one and a half million tonnes per annum just under 60km of essentially flat terrain).  Naturally the standard answer to this is off highway trucks (either road trains or haul trucks) running on a dedicated haul road.

 

This brings me to a question on light rail; the answer to the haulage question should be “a light rail system” – specifically it should be low cost, low speed, simple (no turning – tram one way then reverse back) and efficient.  Until finding this forum I had not, however, been able to find anyone knowledgeable on this topic.  I have spoken to a couple of railway engineering companies but they can only think about traditional railways designed and engineered to last forever and costing a large fortune to construct.  Is there someone on here who can advise on a simple and inexpensive light rail system?

 

Rail used to be here… the foundation and ballast is still in place in many places and could potentially be utilised in the new system.

 

Look forward to your thoughts!!

 

 

Many thanks,

Steve

0400 848 128

 

 

 

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: An introduction and a question

Brian
 

Mills do build there own new lines from time to time, there are companies that would do that type of work I can’t remember at the moment there names, what you might want to consider, at the moment Mackay Sugar is converting the original 3’6” gauge line that ran from Mackay out to Marian this line was relayed with I think it was 82lb rail by Queensland Railways, Mackay Sugar was planning to have concrete sleepers made to handle that size rail, normally 2ft. gauge cane lines use second hand 60lb rail which is good for 10t. axle load, by using heavier rail it would allow you to o to 18t.-20t. axle load
In comparison looking at the cost of building 2ft. gauge line as opposed to build a weather proof gravel haul road the cost per kilometre is probably not going to be all that much different, when it comes to maintaining the haul road you would need at least 2 graders working all the tie as well as at least 2 water trucks to keep the dust down as well as to help keep the compaction at a stable level, when it comes to wet weather you may find hauling by road might have to stop or run the risk of doing considerable damage to the haul road, on the other hand a 2ft. gauge line 60klm long you could maintain it with 1 Tamper and 2-3 decent sized ballast hoppers and a small regulator.
I was thinking in hind site perhaps using bottom discharge hoppers might be a better option as this would allow a quicker unloading time and less cost in comparison to setting up a tippler operation, because you are basically running a flat ground all the wagons need not have a braking system, you could control them with the loco braking such as the dynamic braking with the UM6B’s diesel electric locos.
 
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
 

Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2018 12:11 AM
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question
 


Brian,

 

Thanks for that insight. The terrain we are dealing with is essentially flat… with a ~40m height variance between the loading end and the unloading end (in the wrong direction naturally).

 

Are there any new tracks planned or under construction in the cane fields or are you just using existing tracks?  If new ones who is doing them?

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2018 7:41 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 

 

Steve,

I drive cane loco’s for a living it varies from mill to mill, most the 40t. locos as in Eimco’s or converted Walkers DH’s haul anything from 1000t. to 1500t. on average terrain, the best set-up would be push pull or having a loco at each end operated by one driver the alternate loco operating under remote radio control, that way you equalize the wheel wear factor, you will still need loops at each end more so for cutting out shop wagons should any wagon have a problem.

The comparison of road transport to rail, obviously there is probably a greater cost to build the track in the first place, but the ongoing maintenance cost is less then maintaining a road especially a gravel haul road, trucks will wear out tyres much sooner then rail wheels needing re-machining and eventual replacement.

If you base a comparison on the diesel electric loco’s I suggested those loco’s would burn around 1.5 litres of diesel per kilometre hauling 1000t. load and less on the return empty, on average terrain.

A truck by comparison  hauling around 50t.to 100t. per trip might burn around 2 litre per 5klm

 

Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.

 

Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 8:29 PM

To: LRRSA@...

Subject: RE: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 




Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for that feedback.  I need all the help I can get on both construction and operational issues!

 

If pushing back isn’t viable would an option of two engines (one at either end) resolve that or is it just better to suck up the initial capital and put a loop in each end?

 

I’m looking at 5,000 tonnes of ore per day on a six days per week haulage and one day of maintenance.  A train hauling 1,000t would have to make five round trips (some sugar cane trains haul 1,000 tonnes) and anything more would be a bonus in reducing the number of trips.

 

Budget is simple – capital plus operating cost must be materially less than off highway road haulage.   Additionally the capital cost must be significantly less than the cost of moving the processing plant 60km (another valid alternative).

 

Budget estimate for road construction is $20M, operating cost is ~$12M per year (including road maintenance), mine life 10 – 15 years.  So total cost of ~$140M to $200M over ten to fifteen years.  We need to use the worst case – ten years – so work on a budget of $140M.

 

Can a light rail system be constructed for less than $50M (rail/signalling/unloading – engines and wagons not included as they will be covered by the operating cost in the same way the trucks are) or $1M/km?  If not why not (what are the key costs taking it over that figure) and if so how?

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2018 4:48 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 

 

Steve,

It really comes down to what sort of budget you have, but running 60klm. and then pushing all the way back isn’t a viable option., allowing for the size train you would need to haul 4000t. of ore daily.

They have several Diesel electric 3ft. gauge locos for sale in South Africa UM6B General Electric see photos here:-

They also have a couple of hundred ‘C’ class wagons which were formerly use to haul Limestone and were designed for tipple dump operation

See photos here:-

Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.

 

Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:53 PM

To: LRRSA@...

Subject: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 





Hi LRRSA,

 

I’m a mining engineer and was taught about rail systems at uni… used them underground in a few old mines (and one new one)… was fascinated by the ABT railway on the west coast of Tasmania… and am increasingly looking at historic as well as current systems to find the most appropriate solution to a given project.  

 

I am currently working on a mining project in WA where we need to haul a modest amount of ore a modest distance (one and a half million tonnes per annum just under 60km of essentially flat terrain).  Naturally the standard answer to this is off highway trucks (either road trains or haul trucks) running on a dedicated haul road.

 

This brings me to a question on light rail; the answer to the haulage question should be “a light rail system” – specifically it should be low cost, low speed, simple (no turning – tram one way then reverse back) and efficient.  Until finding this forum I had not, however, been able to find anyone knowledgeable on this topic.  I have spoken to a couple of railway engineering companies but they can only think about traditional railways designed and engineered to last forever and costing a large fortune to construct.  Is there someone on here who can advise on a simple and inexpensive light rail system?

 

Rail used to be here… the foundation and ballast is still in place in many places and could potentially be utilised in the new system.

 

Look forward to your thoughts!!

 

 

Many thanks,

Steve

0400 848 128

 

 

 

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: An introduction and a question

Steve O'Dea
 

Brian,

 

Thanks for that insight. The terrain we are dealing with is essentially flat… with a ~40m height variance between the loading end and the unloading end (in the wrong direction naturally).

 

Are there any new tracks planned or under construction in the cane fields or are you just using existing tracks?  If new ones who is doing them?

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2018 7:41 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 

 

Steve,

I drive cane loco’s for a living it varies from mill to mill, most the 40t. locos as in Eimco’s or converted Walkers DH’s haul anything from 1000t. to 1500t. on average terrain, the best set-up would be push pull or having a loco at each end operated by one driver the alternate loco operating under remote radio control, that way you equalize the wheel wear factor, you will still need loops at each end more so for cutting out shop wagons should any wagon have a problem.

The comparison of road transport to rail, obviously there is probably a greater cost to build the track in the first place, but the ongoing maintenance cost is less then maintaining a road especially a gravel haul road, trucks will wear out tyres much sooner then rail wheels needing re-machining and eventual replacement.

If you base a comparison on the diesel electric loco’s I suggested those loco’s would burn around 1.5 litres of diesel per kilometre hauling 1000t. load and less on the return empty, on average terrain.

A truck by comparison  hauling around 50t.to 100t. per trip might burn around 2 litre per 5klm

 

Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.

 

Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 8:29 PM

Subject: RE: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 




Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for that feedback.  I need all the help I can get on both construction and operational issues!

 

If pushing back isn’t viable would an option of two engines (one at either end) resolve that or is it just better to suck up the initial capital and put a loop in each end?

 

I’m looking at 5,000 tonnes of ore per day on a six days per week haulage and one day of maintenance.  A train hauling 1,000t would have to make five round trips (some sugar cane trains haul 1,000 tonnes) and anything more would be a bonus in reducing the number of trips.

 

Budget is simple – capital plus operating cost must be materially less than off highway road haulage.   Additionally the capital cost must be significantly less than the cost of moving the processing plant 60km (another valid alternative).

 

Budget estimate for road construction is $20M, operating cost is ~$12M per year (including road maintenance), mine life 10 – 15 years.  So total cost of ~$140M to $200M over ten to fifteen years.  We need to use the worst case – ten years – so work on a budget of $140M.

 

Can a light rail system be constructed for less than $50M (rail/signalling/unloading – engines and wagons not included as they will be covered by the operating cost in the same way the trucks are) or $1M/km?  If not why not (what are the key costs taking it over that figure) and if so how?

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2018 4:48 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 

 

Steve,

It really comes down to what sort of budget you have, but running 60klm. and then pushing all the way back isn’t a viable option., allowing for the size train you would need to haul 4000t. of ore daily.

They have several Diesel electric 3ft. gauge locos for sale in South Africa UM6B General Electric see photos here:-

They also have a couple of hundred ‘C’ class wagons which were formerly use to haul Limestone and were designed for tipple dump operation

See photos here:-

Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.

 

Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:53 PM

Subject: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 





Hi LRRSA,

 

I’m a mining engineer and was taught about rail systems at uni… used them underground in a few old mines (and one new one)… was fascinated by the ABT railway on the west coast of Tasmania… and am increasingly looking at historic as well as current systems to find the most appropriate solution to a given project.  

 

I am currently working on a mining project in WA where we need to haul a modest amount of ore a modest distance (one and a half million tonnes per annum just under 60km of essentially flat terrain).  Naturally the standard answer to this is off highway trucks (either road trains or haul trucks) running on a dedicated haul road.

 

This brings me to a question on light rail; the answer to the haulage question should be “a light rail system” – specifically it should be low cost, low speed, simple (no turning – tram one way then reverse back) and efficient.  Until finding this forum I had not, however, been able to find anyone knowledgeable on this topic.  I have spoken to a couple of railway engineering companies but they can only think about traditional railways designed and engineered to last forever and costing a large fortune to construct.  Is there someone on here who can advise on a simple and inexpensive light rail system?

 

Rail used to be here… the foundation and ballast is still in place in many places and could potentially be utilised in the new system.

 

Look forward to your thoughts!!

 

 

Many thanks,

Steve

0400 848 128

 

 

 

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: An introduction and a question

Brian
 

A lot of it comes down to knowing the road and common sense, the main aim is to keep the rake tight so you apply the brakevan before you pull it over a crest while the rake is still stretched that way it just applies an extra load on the loco.
 
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
 

Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 10:16 PM
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question
 


How do cane loco drivers determine when to throttle the end-of-train radio controlled loco up or down on undulating  and curving track  without risking a breakaway in the train ?

Similarly how are radio controlled end-of-train brake vehicles controlled.

 

Noel Reed - Sydney.

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2018 10:41 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 

 

Steve,

I drive cane loco’s for a living it varies from mill to mill, most the 40t. locos as in Eimco’s or converted Walkers DH’s haul anything from 1000t. to 1500t. on average terrain, the best set-up would be push pull or having a loco at each end operated by one driver the alternate loco operating under remote radio control, that way you equalize the wheel wear factor, you will still need loops at each end more so for cutting out shop wagons should any wagon have a problem.

The comparison of road transport to rail, obviously there is probably a greater cost to build the track in the first place, but the ongoing maintenance cost is less then maintaining a road especially a gravel haul road, trucks will wear out tyres much sooner then rail wheels needing re-machining and eventual replacement.

If you base a comparison on the diesel electric loco’s I suggested those loco’s would burn around 1.5 litres of diesel per kilometre hauling 1000t. load and less on the return empty, on average terrain.

A truck by comparison  hauling around 50t.to 100t. per trip might burn around 2 litre per 5klm

 

Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.

 

Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 8:29 PM

To: LRRSA@...

Subject: RE: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 




Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for that feedback.  I need all the help I can get on both construction and operational issues!

 

If pushing back isn’t viable would an option of two engines (one at either end) resolve that or is it just better to suck up the initial capital and put a loop in each end?

 

I’m looking at 5,000 tonnes of ore per day on a six days per week haulage and one day of maintenance.  A train hauling 1,000t would have to make five round trips (some sugar cane trains haul 1,000 tonnes) and anything more would be a bonus in reducing the number of trips.

 

Budget is simple – capital plus operating cost must be materially less than off highway road haulage.   Additionally the capital cost must be significantly less than the cost of moving the processing plant 60km (another valid alternative).

 

Budget estimate for road construction is $20M, operating cost is ~$12M per year (including road maintenance), mine life 10 – 15 years.  So total cost of ~$140M to $200M over ten to fifteen years.  We need to use the worst case – ten years – so work on a budget of $140M.

 

Can a light rail system be constructed for less than $50M (rail/signalling/unloading – engines and wagons not included as they will be covered by the operating cost in the same way the trucks are) or $1M/km?  If not why not (what are the key costs taking it over that figure) and if so how?

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2018 4:48 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 

 

Steve,

It really comes down to what sort of budget you have, but running 60klm. and then pushing all the way back isn’t a viable option., allowing for the size train you would need to haul 4000t. of ore daily.

They have several Diesel electric 3ft. gauge locos for sale in South Africa UM6B General Electric see photos here:-

They also have a couple of hundred ‘C’ class wagons which were formerly use to haul Limestone and were designed for tipple dump operation

See photos here:-

Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.

 

Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:53 PM

To: LRRSA@...

Subject: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 





Hi LRRSA,

 

I’m a mining engineer and was taught about rail systems at uni… used them underground in a few old mines (and one new one)… was fascinated by the ABT railway on the west coast of Tasmania… and am increasingly looking at historic as well as current systems to find the most appropriate solution to a given project.  

 

I am currently working on a mining project in WA where we need to haul a modest amount of ore a modest distance (one and a half million tonnes per annum just under 60km of essentially flat terrain).  Naturally the standard answer to this is off highway trucks (either road trains or haul trucks) running on a dedicated haul road.

 

This brings me to a question on light rail; the answer to the haulage question should be “a light rail system” – specifically it should be low cost, low speed, simple (no turning – tram one way then reverse back) and efficient.  Until finding this forum I had not, however, been able to find anyone knowledgeable on this topic.  I have spoken to a couple of railway engineering companies but they can only think about traditional railways designed and engineered to last forever and costing a large fortune to construct.  Is there someone on here who can advise on a simple and inexpensive light rail system?

 

Rail used to be here… the foundation and ballast is still in place in many places and could potentially be utilised in the new system.

 

Look forward to your thoughts!!

 

 

Many thanks,

Steve

0400 848 128

 

 

 

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: An introduction and a question

Noel Reed
 

How do cane loco drivers determine when to throttle the end-of-train radio controlled loco up or down on undulating  and curving track  without risking a breakaway in the train ?

Similarly how are radio controlled end-of-train brake vehicles controlled.

 

Noel Reed - Sydney.

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2018 10:41 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 

 

Steve,

I drive cane loco’s for a living it varies from mill to mill, most the 40t. locos as in Eimco’s or converted Walkers DH’s haul anything from 1000t. to 1500t. on average terrain, the best set-up would be push pull or having a loco at each end operated by one driver the alternate loco operating under remote radio control, that way you equalize the wheel wear factor, you will still need loops at each end more so for cutting out shop wagons should any wagon have a problem.

The comparison of road transport to rail, obviously there is probably a greater cost to build the track in the first place, but the ongoing maintenance cost is less then maintaining a road especially a gravel haul road, trucks will wear out tyres much sooner then rail wheels needing re-machining and eventual replacement.

If you base a comparison on the diesel electric loco’s I suggested those loco’s would burn around 1.5 litres of diesel per kilometre hauling 1000t. load and less on the return empty, on average terrain.

A truck by comparison  hauling around 50t.to 100t. per trip might burn around 2 litre per 5klm

 

Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.

 

Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 8:29 PM

Subject: RE: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 




Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for that feedback.  I need all the help I can get on both construction and operational issues!

 

If pushing back isn’t viable would an option of two engines (one at either end) resolve that or is it just better to suck up the initial capital and put a loop in each end?

 

I’m looking at 5,000 tonnes of ore per day on a six days per week haulage and one day of maintenance.  A train hauling 1,000t would have to make five round trips (some sugar cane trains haul 1,000 tonnes) and anything more would be a bonus in reducing the number of trips.

 

Budget is simple – capital plus operating cost must be materially less than off highway road haulage.   Additionally the capital cost must be significantly less than the cost of moving the processing plant 60km (another valid alternative).

 

Budget estimate for road construction is $20M, operating cost is ~$12M per year (including road maintenance), mine life 10 – 15 years.  So total cost of ~$140M to $200M over ten to fifteen years.  We need to use the worst case – ten years – so work on a budget of $140M.

 

Can a light rail system be constructed for less than $50M (rail/signalling/unloading – engines and wagons not included as they will be covered by the operating cost in the same way the trucks are) or $1M/km?  If not why not (what are the key costs taking it over that figure) and if so how?

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2018 4:48 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 

 

Steve,

It really comes down to what sort of budget you have, but running 60klm. and then pushing all the way back isn’t a viable option., allowing for the size train you would need to haul 4000t. of ore daily.

They have several Diesel electric 3ft. gauge locos for sale in South Africa UM6B General Electric see photos here:-

They also have a couple of hundred ‘C’ class wagons which were formerly use to haul Limestone and were designed for tipple dump operation

See photos here:-

Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.

 

Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:53 PM

Subject: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 





Hi LRRSA,

 

I’m a mining engineer and was taught about rail systems at uni… used them underground in a few old mines (and one new one)… was fascinated by the ABT railway on the west coast of Tasmania… and am increasingly looking at historic as well as current systems to find the most appropriate solution to a given project.  

 

I am currently working on a mining project in WA where we need to haul a modest amount of ore a modest distance (one and a half million tonnes per annum just under 60km of essentially flat terrain).  Naturally the standard answer to this is off highway trucks (either road trains or haul trucks) running on a dedicated haul road.

 

This brings me to a question on light rail; the answer to the haulage question should be “a light rail system” – specifically it should be low cost, low speed, simple (no turning – tram one way then reverse back) and efficient.  Until finding this forum I had not, however, been able to find anyone knowledgeable on this topic.  I have spoken to a couple of railway engineering companies but they can only think about traditional railways designed and engineered to last forever and costing a large fortune to construct.  Is there someone on here who can advise on a simple and inexpensive light rail system?

 

Rail used to be here… the foundation and ballast is still in place in many places and could potentially be utilised in the new system.

 

Look forward to your thoughts!!

 

 

Many thanks,

Steve

0400 848 128

 

 

 

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: Bundaberg

Bruce Wood
 

Hi Peter,
 
The photo of the 2 x 44 class back-to-back are more than likely the units off the Gold Coast Motorail Express. Arrival at Murwillumbah at about 11.25 am and departure about 15.25 pm. The units are probably secured during this time.
 
The Motorail commenced operation in March 1973.
 
Cheers
Bruce
 
 
 

From: yahoomail@... [LRRSA]
Sent: 2 February, 2018 6:23 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Bundaberg
 
 

Two from Bundaberg 1967 plus a Tweed question please. My father visited Bundaberg on a work trip in 1967 and spotted a chopper harvester plus a mechanical long stalk loading onto a wagon. Rails under wagons not obvious but could be hidden by the stalks? I am only posting low resolutions and higher resolution available.


The third is from a slide a mate I have not seen for years gave me c1972 and shows 2 x 44 class NSWGR plus a guards can on the **maybe **Condong line which is the location on which I would like confirmation please? Could the background be sugar? If so than maybe Condong as I don't know of any other possible location with sugar. If wheat or corn etc, than the possibilities are endless. The 1968 WTT availability list for the Condong extension included the mainline 44 class diesel electric locomotive. Bulk sugar was trucked to CSR refinery in New Farm Brisbane by the 44 class era as I have a 1956 image of that but Condong had molasses tank loaders so maybe molasses?


Cane loader 1967 Bundaberg    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lnzzsVm_MXdJ8MkTQ0crBnoBO38qLWfx/view 


Cane harvester 1967 Bundaberg https://drive.g oogle.com/file/d/1_LGAfb50fSnLRR6LuKIYdWm4vN-UPyXn/view

 

2 x 44 class maybe Tweed Condong    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xUFCt85Kxeowk0jqwcbG6UggyuG6BGFP/view 

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

 

Re: An introduction and a question

Brian
 

Steve,
I drive cane loco’s for a living it varies from mill to mill, most the 40t. locos as in Eimco’s or converted Walkers DH’s haul anything from 1000t. to 1500t. on average terrain, the best set-up would be push pull or having a loco at each end operated by one driver the alternate loco operating under remote radio control, that way you equalize the wheel wear factor, you will still need loops at each end more so for cutting out shop wagons should any wagon have a problem.
The comparison of road transport to rail, obviously there is probably a greater cost to build the track in the first place, but the ongoing maintenance cost is less then maintaining a road especially a gravel haul road, trucks will wear out tyres much sooner then rail wheels needing re-machining and eventual replacement.
If you base a comparison on the diesel electric loco’s I suggested those loco’s would burn around 1.5 litres of diesel per kilometre hauling 1000t. load and less on the return empty, on average terrain.
A truck by comparison  hauling around 50t.to 100t. per trip might burn around 2 litre per 5klm
 
Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.
 

Sent: Friday, February 02, 2018 8:29 PM
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question
 


Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for that feedback.  I need all the help I can get on both construction and operational issues!

 

If pushing back isn’t viable would an option of two engines (one at either end) resolve that or is it just better to suck up the initial capital and put a loop in each end?

 

I’m looking at 5,000 tonnes of ore per day on a six days per week haulage and one day of maintenance.  A train hauling 1,000t would have to make five round trips (some sugar cane trains haul 1,000 tonnes) and anything more would be a bonus in reducing the number of trips.

 

Budget is simple – capital plus operating cost must be materially less than off highway road haulage.   Additionally the capital cost must be significantly less than the cost of moving the processing plant 60km (another valid alternative).

 

Budget estimate for road construction is $20M, operating cost is ~$12M per year (including road maintenance), mine life 10 – 15 years.  So total cost of ~$140M to $200M over ten to fifteen years.  We need to use the worst case – ten years – so work on a budget of $140M.

 

Can a light rail system be constructed for less than $50M (rail/signalling/unloading – engines and wagons not included as they will be covered by the operating cost in the same way the trucks are) or $1M/km?  If not why not (what are the key costs taking it over that figure) and if so how?

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2018 4:48 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 

 

Steve,

It really comes down to what sort of budget you have, but running 60klm. and then pushing all the way back isn’t a viable option., allowing for the size train you would need to haul 4000t. of ore daily.

They have several Diesel electric 3ft. gauge locos for sale in South Africa UM6B General Electric see photos here:-

They also have a couple of hundred ‘C’ class wagons which were formerly use to haul Limestone and were designed for tipple dump operation

See photos here:-

Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.

 

Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:53 PM

To: LRRSA@...

Subject: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 




Hi LRRSA,

 

I’m a mining engineer and was taught about rail systems at uni… used them underground in a few old mines (and one new one)… was fascinated by the ABT railway on the west coast of Tasmania… and am increasingly looking at historic as well as current systems to find the most appropriate solution to a given project.  

 

I am currently working on a mining project in WA where we need to haul a modest amount of ore a modest distance (one and a half million tonnes per annum just under 60km of essentially flat terrain).  Naturally the standard answer to this is off highway trucks (either road trains or haul trucks) running on a dedicated haul road.

 

This brings me to a question on light rail; the answer to the haulage question should be “a light rail system” – specifically it should be low cost, low speed, simple (no turning – tram one way then reverse back) and efficient.  Until finding this forum I had not, however, been able to find anyone knowledgeable on this topic.  I have spoken to a couple of railway engineering companies but they can only think about traditional railways designed and engineered to last forever and costing a large fortune to construct.  Is there someone on here who can advise on a simple and inexpensive light rail system?

 

Rail used to be here… the foundation and ballast is still in place in many places and could potentially be utilised in the new system.

 

Look forward to your thoughts!!

 

 

Many thanks,

Steve

0400 848 128

 

 

 

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: An introduction and a question

Steve O'Dea
 

Hi Brian,

 

Thanks for that feedback.  I need all the help I can get on both construction and operational issues!

 

If pushing back isn’t viable would an option of two engines (one at either end) resolve that or is it just better to suck up the initial capital and put a loop in each end?

 

I’m looking at 5,000 tonnes of ore per day on a six days per week haulage and one day of maintenance.  A train hauling 1,000t would have to make five round trips (some sugar cane trains haul 1,000 tonnes) and anything more would be a bonus in reducing the number of trips.

 

Budget is simple – capital plus operating cost must be materially less than off highway road haulage.   Additionally the capital cost must be significantly less than the cost of moving the processing plant 60km (another valid alternative).

 

Budget estimate for road construction is $20M, operating cost is ~$12M per year (including road maintenance), mine life 10 – 15 years.  So total cost of ~$140M to $200M over ten to fifteen years.  We need to use the worst case – ten years – so work on a budget of $140M.

 

Can a light rail system be constructed for less than $50M (rail/signalling/unloading – engines and wagons not included as they will be covered by the operating cost in the same way the trucks are) or $1M/km?  If not why not (what are the key costs taking it over that figure) and if so how?

 

Thanks,

Steve

 

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Friday, 2 February 2018 4:48 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 

 

Steve,

It really comes down to what sort of budget you have, but running 60klm. and then pushing all the way back isn’t a viable option., allowing for the size train you would need to haul 4000t. of ore daily.

They have several Diesel electric 3ft. gauge locos for sale in South Africa UM6B General Electric see photos here:-

They also have a couple of hundred ‘C’ class wagons which were formerly use to haul Limestone and were designed for tipple dump operation

See photos here:-

Brian
Rawbelle County Workshops
Qld. Aust.

 

Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2018 11:53 PM

Subject: [LRRSA] An introduction and a question

 




Hi LRRSA,

 

I’m a mining engineer and was taught about rail systems at uni… used them underground in a few old mines (and one new one)… was fascinated by the ABT railway on the west coast of Tasmania… and am increasingly looking at historic as well as current systems to find the most appropriate solution to a given project.  

 

I am currently working on a mining project in WA where we need to haul a modest amount of ore a modest distance (one and a half million tonnes per annum just under 60km of essentially flat terrain).  Naturally the standard answer to this is off highway trucks (either road trains or haul trucks) running on a dedicated haul road.

 

This brings me to a question on light rail; the answer to the haulage question should be “a light rail system” – specifically it should be low cost, low speed, simple (no turning – tram one way then reverse back) and efficient.  Until finding this forum I had not, however, been able to find anyone knowledgeable on this topic.  I have spoken to a couple of railway engineering companies but they can only think about traditional railways designed and engineered to last forever and costing a large fortune to construct.  Is there someone on here who can advise on a simple and inexpensive light rail system?

 

Rail used to be here… the foundation and ballast is still in place in many places and could potentially be utilised in the new system.

 

Look forward to your thoughts!!

 

 

Many thanks,

Steve

0400 848 128

 

 

 

 

Virus-free. www.avg.com

Re: An introduction and a question

Eddie Oliver
 

On 2/02/2018 19:32, 'Steve O'Dea' natsteve@... [LRRSA] wrote:
 

The project has a 10 - 15 year projected life so engineering for a +30years as is typical for rail systems will over-capitalise the concept and kill it.  I was thinking along the lines of the sugar cane railways in North Queensland or the timber railways in SW WA.  These are usually 2’ gauge systems.


4000-plus tonnes per day plus the weight of the locomotives and vehicles (in both directions) needs a pretty substantial construction standard to survive a week, let alone 15 years.

Axleload is a key  consideration.