Date   

Antisocial media - was Re: : Re: Re:: SMR new locomotive

Eddie Oliver
 

On 1/11/2016 22:49, John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA] wrote:
It's not perfect, but right now here in Australia there seems to be much more information and communication on railway enthusiast matters via Facebook than any other method.

Make that misinformation and miscommunication, then the statement would be undeniable.



Re: : Re: Re:: SMR new locomotive

John Dennis
 

David,

The search facility in Facebook Groups works pretty well, finding the search test in posts and comments. You still need to join Facebook in order to contribute to groups, and indeed in many cases (most in my experience), to even read a group's posts. 

However your comments about the busier the group, the harder it is to manage is perfectly correct. 

It's not perfect, but right now here in Australia there seems to be much more information and communication on railway enthusiast matters via Facebook than any other method.

John



On 1 November 2016 at 22:43, 'David Halfpenny (Yahoo 2)' david.halfpenny@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

Key messages:


- Facebook GROUPS avoid the ghastliness of Ordinary Facebook

- you don’t have to suffer Ordinary Facebook to enjoy them.

On 1 Nov 2016, at 01:58, Frank Stamford frank.stamford@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

The reluctance of people to join Facebook bemuses me, but there is no doubt that it is strong and widespread.

Vast numbers of people have had a variety of bad experiences, from mere self-inflicted embarrassment downwards.
- I originally joined to keep an eye on life-threatening cyber-bullying among choir-girls !
- Information Overload means that the important messages (cries for help, reminders of events etc) get drowned out by the sheer volume of drivel, trivia and worse, from a toxic mix of warring relations, ‘friends’ and organisations. Either we read the whole lot, or we depend on which messages Facebook’s computer thinks we should see - that’s the logic of the matter.
- I get a lot of real-life grief from a relentless Facebook stalker.
- I can’t say that endless kittens and pictorial platitudes, mingled with pictures of my daughters getting drunk, is my idea of entertainment, much as I love kittens.
But all that is mere Ordinary Facebook.

Facebook Groups share the same interface but are far superior, and unfairly tarred with the same brush

The display Format is the main weakness:
- every post becomes a new Thread with a string of replies and replies to replies, all truncated on the screen unless you click each one laboriously
- posts are in ever-changing order, by Last Reply, not by Creation or subject
- the need to scroll and scroll and scroll laboriously, just to get back to yesterday, let alone last week. 
The quieter the Group, the easier it is to manage. 

And as you say,

The search facilities on Facebook are not particularly good, either.

They are limited to Groups and about as adequate as CTRL+F - but Facebook has the resources to do a really good job, when it chooses.

The trick for me is to Save the best bits to my own backed-up computer, and make my own Archive leaving pleasantries to wither online.


 its use is so widespread in the community, particularly in the younger age groups, the LRRSA must increase its activity on Facebook to survive in the longer term, I think.

Hmm - my family have all shifted to WhatsApp and tell me loudly how inconvenient it is for them that I stick with boring old Facebook!

But regardless of the longer term (year after next?) we may have to survive the potential collapse of Yahoo! Groups (after Christmas?). 
As a Yahoo community activist, I’ve seen how precarious it’s been for donkey’s years, but the Verizon takeover (if it’s still on) could well be a crunch point.
If Yahoo! Groups fold there are several alternatives, of which Facebook may not the the best ship but is certainly the easiest lifeboat to jump to - apart from the reluctance of the Refuseniks.

David 1/2d



Re: : Re: Re:: SMR new locomotive

David Halfpenny
 

Key messages:

- Facebook GROUPS avoid the ghastliness of Ordinary Facebook

- you don’t have to suffer Ordinary Facebook to enjoy them.

On 1 Nov 2016, at 01:58, Frank Stamford frank.stamford@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

The reluctance of people to join Facebook bemuses me, but there is no doubt that it is strong and widespread.

Vast numbers of people have had a variety of bad experiences, from mere self-inflicted embarrassment downwards.
- I originally joined to keep an eye on life-threatening cyber-bullying among choir-girls !
- Information Overload means that the important messages (cries for help, reminders of events etc) get drowned out by the sheer volume of drivel, trivia and worse, from a toxic mix of warring relations, ‘friends’ and organisations. Either we read the whole lot, or we depend on which messages Facebook’s computer thinks we should see - that’s the logic of the matter.
- I get a lot of real-life grief from a relentless Facebook stalker.
- I can’t say that endless kittens and pictorial platitudes, mingled with pictures of my daughters getting drunk, is my idea of entertainment, much as I love kittens.
But all that is mere Ordinary Facebook.

Facebook Groups share the same interface but are far superior, and unfairly tarred with the same brush

The display Format is the main weakness:
- every post becomes a new Thread with a string of replies and replies to replies, all truncated on the screen unless you click each one laboriously
- posts are in ever-changing order, by Last Reply, not by Creation or subject
- the need to scroll and scroll and scroll laboriously, just to get back to yesterday, let alone last week. 
The quieter the Group, the easier it is to manage. 

And as you say,

The search facilities on Facebook are not particularly good, either.

They are limited to Groups and about as adequate as CTRL+F - but Facebook has the resources to do a really good job, when it chooses.

The trick for me is to Save the best bits to my own backed-up computer, and make my own Archive leaving pleasantries to wither online.


 its use is so widespread in the community, particularly in the younger age groups, the LRRSA must increase its activity on Facebook to survive in the longer term, I think.

Hmm - my family have all shifted to WhatsApp and tell me loudly how inconvenient it is for them that I stick with boring old Facebook!

But regardless of the longer term (year after next?) we may have to survive the potential collapse of Yahoo! Groups (after Christmas?). 
As a Yahoo community activist, I’ve seen how precarious it’s been for donkey’s years, but the Verizon takeover (if it’s still on) could well be a crunch point.
If Yahoo! Groups fold there are several alternatives, of which Facebook may not the the best ship but is certainly the easiest lifeboat to jump to - apart from the reluctance of the Refuseniks.

David 1/2d


Re: : Re: Re:: SMR new locomotive

Chris Stratton
 

I resisted joining FB for a long time and eventually only did so I could play Words With Friends (Scrabble) but now am a member of a large number of groups and use it all the time. 

Regards,
Chris



----- Original Message -----
From:
LRRSA@...

To:

Cc:

Sent:
Tue, 01 Nov 2016 12:58:04 +1100
Subject:
Re: : Re: [LRRSA] Re:: SMR new locomotive




On 1/11/2016 12:00 PM, philip.graham567@... [LRRSA] wrote:
 

Thanks Frank,

For giving alternate instructions to access some of the "Facebook" pages without being a member of "Facebook" as such.

One thing I do note is that "Facebook" entries rarely come up under searches by some of the other major search engines Google, DuckDuckGo, Yahoo, Bing(!), etc. Which means that to do more comprehensive searches, one is more or less obligated to join "Facebook" unless one has another tame "Facebook" person to do the searches for you! The rock and the hard place?

-PGG-


The search facilities on Facebook are not particularly good, either.

The reluctance of people to join Facebook bemuses me, but there is no doubt that it is strong and widespread. On the LRRSA committee (of 7 people) there appear be only three who regularly use Facebook, and three who never use it. But its use is so widespread in the community, particularly in the younger age groups, the LRRSA must increase its activity on Facebook to survive in the longer term, I think.

There are many interesting groups on Facebook - like the Narrow Gauge Enthusiasts Group, which is based in England, but has a lot of international content.

You can look at it here without joining Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/385672148111486/

and it is worth looking at I think.

Some other interesting groups are "Australian Sugar Cane Trains", and "Satu Sisi" (Indonesian sugar tramways); but in both cases I think you have to join Facebook to look at them.

Regards,

Frank
  



Email sent using Optus Webmail


Re: : Re: Re:: SMR new locomotive

Frank Stamford
 

On 1/11/2016 12:00 PM, philip.graham567@... [LRRSA] wrote:
 

Thanks Frank,

For giving alternate instructions to access some of the "Facebook" pages without being a member of "Facebook" as such.

One thing I do note is that "Facebook" entries rarely come up under searches by some of the other major search engines Google, DuckDuckGo, Yahoo, Bing(!), etc. Which means that to do more comprehensive searches, one is more or less obligated to join "Facebook" unless one has another tame "Facebook" person to do the searches for you! The rock and the hard place?

-PGG-


The search facilities on Facebook are not particularly good, either.

The reluctance of people to join Facebook bemuses me, but there is no doubt that it is strong and widespread. On the LRRSA committee (of 7 people) there appear be only three who regularly use Facebook, and three who never use it. But its use is so widespread in the community, particularly in the younger age groups, the LRRSA must increase its activity on Facebook to survive in the longer term, I think.

There are many interesting groups on Facebook - like the Narrow Gauge Enthusiasts Group, which is based in England, but has a lot of international content.

You can look at it here without joining Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/385672148111486/

and it is worth looking at I think.

Some other interesting groups are "Australian Sugar Cane Trains", and "Satu Sisi" (Indonesian sugar tramways); but in both cases I think you have to join Facebook to look at them.

Regards,

Frank
  


Re: : SMR new locomotive

Philip G Graham
 

The two O&K MB7N. Were these two ever positively identified for s/n out the the group of four locos coming to the southern hemisphere via the Chung Woo Construction group?

The number #32 plus suits these neat little industrial units.

-PGG-


Re: : Re: Re:: SMR new locomotive

Philip G Graham
 

Thanks Frank,

For giving alternate instructions to access some of the "Facebook" pages without being a member of "Facebook" as such.

One thing I do note is that "Facebook" entries rarely come up under searches by some of the other major search engines Google, DuckDuckGo, Yahoo, Bing(!), etc. Which means that to do more comprehensive searches, one is more or less obligated to join "Facebook" unless one has another tame "Facebook" person to do the searches for you! The rock and the hard place?

-PGG-


Speed Limit 20 by E A Downs

Frank Stamford
 

The Publications Committee of the Puffing Billy Preservation Society is asking for expressions of interest in the publication of new edition of "Speed Limit 20".
The attached pdf has details.



Re: : SMR new locomotive

Frank Stamford
 


Hello Philip,

On 31/10/2016 10:07 AM, philip.graham567@... [LRRSA] wrote:
 

Brad

You should be able to post a photo here. Not everyone is on, gasp!, facebook... Minimalist is the way to go.


You can see the LRRSA Facebook Page without being on Facebook, here is the link:

https://www.facebook.com/Lrrsa-Light-Railway-Research-Society-of-Australia-Inc-150013111718825/

Where it says "Sign Up" and "Log In" just choose "Not Now". You will be able to scroll to see the photograph.

Regards,

Frank


Do it from the Yahoo Group page rather than the e-Mail portal.

32? Is the other numbered in sequence? Need photos, more info!

-PGG-



Re: : SMR new locomotive

Philip G Graham
 

Brad

You should be able to post a photo here. Not everyone is on, gasp!, facebook... Minimalist is the way to go.

Do it from the Yahoo Group page rather than the e-Mail portal.

32? Is the other numbered in sequence? Need photos, more info!

-PGG-


Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers

John Browning
 

The examples cited by Richard and David were exactly what I had in mind when asking my question.

I accept that most traversers are self-contained travelling units that cannot be considered locomotives, but the examples on the English Midland Railway could perhaps be seen in another light.

John


SMR new locomotive

Brad P
 

  Bit of a big surprise in the last few days.
  However it seems that the SMR has again become a locomotive operator with a shunter, numbered 32 (next number in line) being one of two that recently appeared at East Greta Junction.
  Besides the number, it carries the SMR initials.

  I have some shots taken by Brad Coulter, but I don't think tgey work on the Yahoogroup. Placed one on our Facebook group.
.
  It is believed these are the two earlier discussed that were on track construction duties deeper in the Hunter Valley.

Cheers
Brad


Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers

Petan
 

How about I change from the 1960s sawmill traverser and ask instead how to classify the self-propelled traverser at the Eveleigh Carriage Workshops in that link I posted. In that way the topic is a better known self-propelled rail vehicle (traverser) and many here would know its drive mechanism from the power plant to the wheels, which after all is what my original question was about.

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2016 11:10 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers

 


This https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_table#/media/File:Eveleigh_traveller.jpg example from Eveleigh Carriage Workshops in Sydney has a yellow shed mid-way along the back of the traverser. In my example, swap the yellow shed with a farm tractor engine and driver’s seat and place it on one side, not the middle of the  traverser’s rear. In a nut shell, the traverser I mentioned was a self-powered rail mounted vehicle carrying a load on the traverser table. Not sure if all wheel drive or just a couple and the rest of the wheels non-powered.   

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 


Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers [1 Attachment]

Petan
 

My example had a farm tractor type power plant firmly attached (probably welded not riveted, not sure, too long ago) on the back of the traverser. Driver sat on tractor seat facing over the tractor engine like a normal tractor driver and looking along the traverser. After securing the load by wheel chocks, **sit in seat on tractor on traverser**, engage forward gear to go south, reverse to go north and power up and away you went.

 

My initial point was clearly this traverser itself was a self-powered rail vehicle hauling a load as the tractor engine’s power was transmitted to the traverser’s wheels either by a chain or drive shaft, I forget as it was 1960s and I was only there as a Xmas job after exams finished. The traverser itself in the example I mentioned was not like a wagon pushed or pulled by a farm tractor on rubber wheels. The load on the traverser table was a side issue as it could be wood if at a sawmill or rail rollingstock if at a rail workshops.

 

This https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_table#/media/File:Eveleigh_traveller.jpg example from Eveleigh Carriage Workshops in Sydney has a yellow shed mid-way along the back of the traverser. In my example, swap the yellow shed with a farm tractor engine and driver’s seat and place it on one side, not the middle of the  traverser’s rear. In a nut shell, the traverser I mentioned was a self-powered rail mounted vehicle carrying a load on the traverser table. Not sure if all wheel drive or just a couple and the rest of the wheels non-powered.   

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Sunday, 30 October 2016 7:56 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers [1 Attachment]

 

[Attachment(s) from richard horne included below]


Peter,

 

I'm not quite clear if you are describing a tractor's chassis (i.e. without wheels) as motive power for a traverser.  If so, this is akin to any powered traverser at railway workshops, tramway workshops, timber works etc. and can hardly be regarded as a locomotive.  What can be regarded as a locomotive is where the traverser is pushed or pulled by an independent unit, that can be uncoupled from it.  Attached is a photo of one such steam unit at the Midland Railway's Derby Carriage Works and it is very similar to a vertical boiler tram loco.  Incidentally, there were several of these, later converted to electric power, using twin trolley poles (as on a trolleybus) and one, at least, was then converted to petrol power and is preserved by the GWR Society at Didcot.  I think this is the sort of thing that John had in mind.  I'm not aware of any traversers of this type in Australia…but hope to be enlightened!

 

Regards,

 

Richard Horne

 


From: "'Peter Cokley' yahoomail@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...>
To: LRRSA@...
Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2016, 11:29
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers

 

 

Hi John, not sure what you are aiming for as traversers are fairly common eg many government railway and tramway workshops. Just imagine trollies of wood instead of locomotives and the side tracks off to saw benches instead of locomotive erecting shops. Then permanently attach a tractor on its chassis as motive power along the frame and there you have it.  

 

There were at least two others in the general Salisbury / Rocklea /Archerfield area beside the one I mentioned at East Coast Timbers. One was at Comeng and the other at the experimental sawmill at the QLD Forestry Department’s Salisbury depot. The other possibilities were Evans Deakin and English Electric.

 

If we switch from the sawmill one to the present diesel powered traverser at Ipswich rail Workshops Museum, then it is still the same question; its rail tractor classification?  

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2016 4:10 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers

 

An interesting question about traversers.

If it ran on a railway track coupled to a vehicle that constituted the traverser table, that begins to look like a locomotive.

Are any further details available?

John

 

_._,___

 





Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers

David Halfpenny
 


On 29 Oct 2016, at 07:10, 'John Browning' ceo8@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

An interesting question about traversers.
If it ran on a railway track coupled to a vehicle that constituted the traverser table, that begins to look like a locomotive


John,

I’ve just bought a copy of this book, published by the Industrial Railway Society:

Vertical Boiler Locomotives and Railmotors built in Great Britain Volume 2MAXIMIZE

David 1/2d




Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers

rthorne475
 

Peter,

I'm not quite clear if you are describing a tractor's chassis (i.e. without wheels) as motive power for a traverser.  If so, this is akin to any powered traverser at railway workshops, tramway workshops, timber works etc. and can hardly be regarded as a locomotive.  What can be regarded as a locomotive is where the traverser is pushed or pulled by an independent unit, that can be uncoupled from it.  Attached is a photo of one such steam unit at the Midland Railway's Derby Carriage Works and it is very similar to a vertical boiler tram loco.  Incidentally, there were several of these, later converted to electric power, using twin trolley poles (as on a trolleybus) and one, at least, was then converted to petrol power and is preserved by the GWR Society at Didcot.  I think this is the sort of thing that John had in mind.  I'm not aware of any traversers of this type in Australia…but hope to be enlightened!

Regards,

Richard Horne



From: "'Peter Cokley' yahoomail@... [LRRSA]"
To: LRRSA@...
Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2016, 11:29
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers

 
Hi John, not sure what you are aiming for as traversers are fairly common eg many government railway and tramway workshops. Just imagine trollies of wood instead of locomotives and the side tracks off to saw benches instead of locomotive erecting shops. Then permanently attach a tractor on its chassis as motive power along the frame and there you have it.  
 
There were at least two others in the general Salisbury / Rocklea /Archerfield area beside the one I mentioned at East Coast Timbers. One was at Comeng and the other at the experimental sawmill at the QLD Forestry Department’s Salisbury depot. The other possibilities were Evans Deakin and English Electric.
 
If we switch from the sawmill one to the present diesel powered traverser at Ipswich rail Workshops Museum, then it is still the same question; its rail tractor classification?  
 
Cheers
Peter Cokley
 
From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2016 4:10 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers
 
An interesting question about traversers.
If it ran on a railway track coupled to a vehicle that constituted the traverser table, that begins to look like a locomotive.
Are any further details available?
John


_._,___



Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers

Petan
 

Hi John, not sure what you are aiming for as traversers are fairly common eg many government railway and tramway workshops. Just imagine trollies of wood instead of locomotives and the side tracks off to saw benches instead of locomotive erecting shops. Then permanently attach a tractor on its chassis as motive power along the frame and there you have it.  

 

There were at least two others in the general Salisbury / Rocklea /Archerfield area beside the one I mentioned at East Coast Timbers. One was at Comeng and the other at the experimental sawmill at the QLD Forestry Department’s Salisbury depot. The other possibilities were Evans Deakin and English Electric.

 

If we switch from the sawmill one to the present diesel powered traverser at Ipswich rail Workshops Museum, then it is still the same question; its rail tractor classification?  

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Saturday, 29 October 2016 4:10 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers

 

An interesting question about traversers.

If it ran on a railway track coupled to a vehicle that constituted the traverser table, that begins to look like a locomotive.

Are any further details available?

John



_._,___


Re: : Rail Tractor Classification - traversers

John Browning
 

An interesting question about traversers.

If it ran on a railway track coupled to a vehicle that constituted the traverser table, that begins to look like a locomotive.

Are any further details available?

John


Re: : Rail Tractor Classification

Petan
 

Do traversers count as rail tractors as a few sawmills (plus government rail systems) had them as part of their rail system. I know of one (East Coast Timbers at Archerfield QLD 1960s/ 1970s) that had one for their internal trolley system. Its motive power was a crash gear box style former farm type of tractor mounted along the frame with the driver’s rear facing outwards. It had tractor gears but I forget if chain driven.

 

Cheers

Peter Cokley


Re: STANLEY Article [1 Attachment]

Tony Coen
 

With a simple 0-4-0BT wheel arrangement . It most likely carried a water tank on the footplate, hence my inclusion of B for bunker. Anyone have another idea?
 
The Sentinel engine ended up as a stationary engine at a bush mill, known as Newhaven, in the Mawbanna area of NW Tas.
 
    Tony C.
 

Sent: Friday, October 28, 2016 3:01 AM
Subject: [LRRSA] STANLEY Article [1 Attachment]
 
 

Wonderful seven page article:

 
STANLEY also known as the Flying Doe
 
- a locomotive that defies description
 
- ‘that could easily be described as a bush dunny
 
- a Manning Wardle / Black Hawthorn / Sentinel
 
 
by Mark & Angela Fry
 
Narrow Gauge and Industrial Railway Modelling Review 
Issue 108 Volume 14
October 2016
pp 155-161 inclusive
 
 

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