Date   

Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

Tony Coen
 

No problems, Richard. I rest my case

 

            Tony.

 


From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2015 7:36 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

 

 

My error, actually.  Age/brain fade made me overlook that vital 6" difference in gauge.

 

Richard

 


From: "ajcoen@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...>
To: LRRSA@...
Sent: Wednesday, 23 September 2015, 4:42
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

 

 

And before I get chastised again, Mt. Bischoff was 3’00” ga. (see below)!!

 

    Tony.

 

From: mailto:LRRSA@...

Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 12:47 PM

To: LRRSA@...

Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

 

 

Thank you, James, for providing the photo. of Huon at Geeveston. That’s certainly cleared up one aspect.

 

My apologies about the loco. being tested at Hobart Roundhouse. I didn’t get confused – wrote it in a rush without really checking!

 

Greg’s. submission about the electric loco. being at Hastings is plausible. I’ve been looking at a few photos. taken at Hastings at different eras, trying to spot overhead, but found nothing. My inclination is that the loco. was trialled for a destination out of Tas., as Eddie has suggested. Again, with tongue in cheek, I’ve not seen nor heard of 3’6” electric locos., other than the Baldwin, at Waratah, Richard, but it’s a possibility not to ignore.

 

    Tony.

 

From: mailto:LRRSA@...

Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 8:50 AM

To: LRRSA@...

Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

 

 

Thanks for the extra info. Seems to be bugger all info about on what was a pretty substantial railway. Tony mention no known photos of locos on the wharf at Geeveston. This one has appeared recently.

http://handle.slv.vic.gov.au/10381/57134

 

Tony also mentioned testing of a Cornwall Coal Ruston in Hobart yard.

https://flic.kr/p/ivxtkT

I think this is a Day?

 


Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

rthorne475
 

My error, actually.  Age/brain fade made me overlook that vital 6" difference in gauge.

Richard



From: "ajcoen@... [LRRSA]"
To: LRRSA@...
Sent: Wednesday, 23 September 2015, 4:42
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

 
And before I get chastised again, Mt. Bischoff was 3’00” ga. (see below)!!
 
    Tony.
 
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco
 
 
Thank you, James, for providing the photo. of Huon at Geeveston. That’s certainly cleared up one aspect.
 
My apologies about the loco. being tested at Hobart Roundhouse. I didn’t get confused – wrote it in a rush without really checking!
 
Greg’s. submission about the electric loco. being at Hastings is plausible. I’ve been looking at a few photos. taken at Hastings at different eras, trying to spot overhead, but found nothing. My inclination is that the loco. was trialled for a destination out of Tas., as Eddie has suggested. Again, with tongue in cheek, I’ve not seen nor heard of 3’6” electric locos., other than the Baldwin, at Waratah, Richard, but it’s a possibility not to ignore.
 
    Tony.
 
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 8:50 AM
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco
 
 
Thanks for the extra info. Seems to be bugger all info about on what was a pretty substantial railway. Tony mention no known photos of locos on the wharf at Geeveston. This one has appeared recently.
 
Tony also mentioned testing of a Cornwall Coal Ruston in Hobart yard.
I think this is a Day?



Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

rthorne475
 

Brian,

Yes, not a Ruston but a Days with Gardner engine.  See my recent email.

Richard Horne



From: "Brian Rumary brian@... [LRRSA]"
To: LRRSA@...
Sent: Wednesday, 23 September 2015, 13:28
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

 
On 22/09/2015 23:50, James McCulloch jamesianmcculloch@... [LRRSA] wrote:
Tony also mentioned testing of a Cornwall Coal Ruston in Hobart yard. 
I think this is a Day?

Well it's certainly NOT a Ruston!!

--
Brian Rumary
England
brian(at)rumary.co.uk



Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

B.Rumary
 

On 22/09/2015 23:50, James McCulloch jamesianmcculloch@... [LRRSA] wrote:
Tony also mentioned testing of a Cornwall Coal Ruston in Hobart yard. 
I think this is a Day?

Well it's certainly NOT a Ruston!!

-- 
Brian Rumary
England
brian(at)rumary.co.uk


Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

Tony Coen
 

And before I get chastised again, Mt. Bischoff was 3’00” ga. (see below)!!
 
    Tony.
 

Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco
 
 

Thank you, James, for providing the photo. of Huon at Geeveston. That’s certainly cleared up one aspect.
 
My apologies about the loco. being tested at Hobart Roundhouse. I didn’t get confused – wrote it in a rush without really checking!
 
Greg’s. submission about the electric loco. being at Hastings is plausible. I’ve been looking at a few photos. taken at Hastings at different eras, trying to spot overhead, but found nothing. My inclination is that the loco. was trialled for a destination out of Tas., as Eddie has suggested. Again, with tongue in cheek, I’ve not seen nor heard of 3’6” electric locos., other than the Baldwin, at Waratah, Richard, but it’s a possibility not to ignore.
 
    Tony.
 
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 8:50 AM
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco
 
 

Thanks for the extra info. Seems to be bugger all info about on what was a pretty substantial railway. Tony mention no known photos of locos on the wharf at Geeveston. This one has appeared recently.
 
Tony also mentioned testing of a Cornwall Coal Ruston in Hobart yard.
I think this is a Day?


Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

Tony Coen
 

Thank you, James, for providing the photo. of Huon at Geeveston. That’s certainly cleared up one aspect.
 
My apologies about the loco. being tested at Hobart Roundhouse. I didn’t get confused – wrote it in a rush without really checking!
 
Greg’s. submission about the electric loco. being at Hastings is plausible. I’ve been looking at a few photos. taken at Hastings at different eras, trying to spot overhead, but found nothing. My inclination is that the loco. was trialled for a destination out of Tas., as Eddie has suggested. Again, with tongue in cheek, I’ve not seen nor heard of 3’6” electric locos., other than the Baldwin, at Waratah, Richard, but it’s a possibility not to ignore.
 
    Tony.
 

Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2015 8:50 AM
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco
 
 

Thanks for the extra info. Seems to be bugger all info about on what was a pretty substantial railway. Tony mention no known photos of locos on the wharf at Geeveston. This one has appeared recently.
 
Tony also mentioned testing of a Cornwall Coal Ruston in Hobart yard.
I think this is a Day?


Rail Fingal NSW

Petan
 

Rails have been located in Letitia Road, just past the Fingal Cemetery NSW. I knew where to find it as other members of the Tweed Heads Historical society photographed rail there in 2003. 


Rail site in relation to cemetery https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByB-ppGeDyvwT3dFU1liLW1zT1k/view 


Rail with 2 x 20 cent coins a size scale https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByB-ppGeDyvwREpZeTFHTzhQMkk/view 


Cheers

Peter Cokley




Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

rthorne475
 

The Cornwall Coal Co loco at Hobart loco depot was built by Days, apparently in 1943.  The Hobart agent for Gardner had a Gardner diesel engine fitted in 1950 and, as the photo shows, it managed to pull TGR Q8 onto the turntable at Hobart loco depot.  See LR 184 and 186.

The Cornwall Coal Co's 3'6" gauge Ruston & Hornsby was 279571/1949, second-hand from the Marine Board of Burnie.

Richard Horne



From: "James McCulloch jamesianmcculloch@... [LRRSA]"
To: LRRSA@...
Sent: Tuesday, 22 September 2015, 23:50
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

 
Thanks for the extra info. Seems to be bugger all info about on what was a pretty substantial railway. Tony mention no known photos of locos on the wharf at Geeveston. This one has appeared recently.

Tony also mentioned testing of a Cornwall Coal Ruston in Hobart yard. 
I think this is a Day?



Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

James McCulloch
 

Thanks for the extra info. Seems to be bugger all info about on what was a pretty substantial railway. Tony mention no known photos of locos on the wharf at Geeveston. This one has appeared recently.

Tony also mentioned testing of a Cornwall Coal Ruston in Hobart yard. 
I think this is a Day?


Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

Eddie Oliver
 

We seem to be assuming that this loco was actually used somewhere. But if the photographed situation was purely for demonstration purposes, is it not possible that the loco was never actually adopted anywhere (at least in Tasmania)?


Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

rthorne475
 

As far as I'm aware, the only 3'6" gauge Tasmanian industrial line that used a trolleypole electric lcoo was the Mt Bischoff Tin Mining Co.  Photos at Mt Bischoff show only the Baldwin-Westinghouse loco of 1906, a very substantial machine and quite unlike the Russell Allport loco.  However this (and the two Beyer, Peacock 0-4-0ST locos) used the same close-set buffers and hook coupling as the Russell Allport machine.  Although Mt Bischoff had c1906 two 1'4" gauge Weymouth trolleypole electric mining locos, could it also have had 3'6" gauge mining locos?  The Russell Allport locos certainly appear as if built for mine work (low profile and no cab).

This is just a thought, and I must stress that there is no evidence to suggest the locos were at Mt Bischoff, rather the contrary.  For instance, why buy just one and not three locos from Baldwin?  Still, if it were the case, and Greg's supposition is correct, clearly it would have been much easier to trial a loco at Hastings, rather than on the West Coast.

Richard Horne



From: "gsjohnston9@... [LRRSA]"
To: LRRSA@...
Sent: Tuesday, 22 September 2015, 13:52
Subject: RE:Re: [LRRSA] Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

 
To provide a bit more supposition I would suggest Hastings.

Russell Allport supplied electrical equipment to John Hay's Hastings mill in July 1904.

The pier appears to be too wide for Geeveston. I think the background fits Hastings as well.

Greg Johnston

------------------------------------------
From: ajcoen@... [LRRSA]
To: LRRSA@...;
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco
Good posed photo., James. Note the chocks under the wagon wheels!
It?s certainly a Russell Allport product ? the name is stamped on the underframe.
As for where and when it is, that?s difficult. I had never heard of this machine before, but I provide the following comments:
a.. The gauge appears to be 3?6?;
b.. The closely-spaced buffers replicate those on the Kennedy-built log-hauler loco. that worked on Tyler?s 3?6? gauge Tramway at Ida Bay. There was no electricity there and the jetty was not very wide;
c.. There are stacks of floor boards and 4x4 beams on the pier/wharf. They could indicate end products from Huon Timber Coy?s. Mill at Whale Pt., Geeveston, where there was ample electricity.
May I suggest that this is a photo. of a trial run of an electric loco. The overhead appears to be a temporary set-up. The background is similar and close enough to the pier to be HTC?s port and as already stated, electricity was available at the nearby large mill. The loco. may have been ordered for a mining show, but I don?t recognize it from any Tasmanian workings except that it is similar to the early Cornwall Coal Coy. underground engine. There is always the possibility of it being used as shunting engine between HTC?s mill and the pier head, but again, no evidence of that occurring has been sighted. A 3?6? gauge line ran along the pier, but no loco. has been photographed working on it. Additionally, the pier always seemed to be cluttered with timber and which suggested trolley wagon use prevailed.
All supposition on my part, James, but I have no other ideas. Hope somebody can shed some light.
Cheers,
Tony Coen.
From: mailto:LRRSA@...
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 11:55 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco
Hi
I'm after a bit more info on the loco shown in the following link. Pretty certain it was built by Allport in Hobart but not sure when or which railway.
thanks
James
https://flic.kr/p/yQXVyq



Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

Greg Johnston
 

To provide a bit more supposition I would suggest Hastings.

Russell Allport supplied electrical equipment to John Hay's Hastings mill in July 1904.

The pier appears to be too wide for Geeveston. I think the background fits Hastings as well.

Greg Johnston


------------------------------------------
From: ajcoen@bigpond.com [LRRSA] <LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au>
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au;
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco
Good posed photo., James. Note the chocks under the wagon wheels!
It?s certainly a Russell Allport product ? the name is stamped on the underframe.
As for where and when it is, that?s difficult. I had never heard of this machine before, but I provide the following comments:
a.. The gauge appears to be 3?6?;
b.. The closely-spaced buffers replicate those on the Kennedy-built log-hauler loco. that worked on Tyler?s 3?6? gauge Tramway at Ida Bay. There was no electricity there and the jetty was not very wide;
c.. There are stacks of floor boards and 4x4 beams on the pier/wharf. They could indicate end products from Huon Timber Coy?s. Mill at Whale Pt., Geeveston, where there was ample electricity.
May I suggest that this is a photo. of a trial run of an electric loco. The overhead appears to be a temporary set-up. The background is similar and close enough to the pier to be HTC?s port and as already stated, electricity was available at the nearby large mill. The loco. may have been ordered for a mining show, but I don?t recognize it from any Tasmanian workings except that it is similar to the early Cornwall Coal Coy. underground engine. There is always the possibility of it being used as shunting engine between HTC?s mill and the pier head, but again, no evidence of that occurring has been sighted. A 3?6? gauge line ran along the pier, but no loco. has been photographed working on it. Additionally, the pier always seemed to be cluttered with timber and which suggested trolley wagon use prevailed.
All supposition on my part, James, but I have no other ideas. Hope somebody can shed some light.
Cheers,
Tony Coen.
From: mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 11:55 AM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [LRRSA] Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco
Hi
I'm after a bit more info on the loco shown in the following link. Pretty certain it was built by Allport in Hobart but not sure when or which railway.
thanks
James
https://flic.kr/p/yQXVyq


Re: : Re: Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

Phil Rickard
 

Great picture! 

A couple of clues from the Hobart papers – The Mercury 25 Oct 1905 (and for six or so weeks afterwards) carried a Russell Allport advert saying they were the sole agents for Tasmania for Allgemeine Electric Company, Berlin “Manufacturers of . . . . . Electric Mining Locomotives . . . .”.  

Four years later the Daily Post, 3 Aug 1909 carried a lengthy report on Russell Allport’s engineering business. After mentioning some of his steam locomotives the reporter moved on to the Electrical Department, “ . . some years ago two electric locomotives were designed and built on the premises, and have been working successfully ever since.”

I note that preceding the mentioned picture on Flickr, there are two others taken at the Allport workshops showing an (identical?) electric locomotive being built.

All of which makes one wonder if the loco depicted has AEC equipment on an Allport frame and superstructure. Probably shown on trial, seems to be of 3ft 6in-gauge; so what Tasmanian enterprise of that gauge needed two electric overhead-wire locos c.1905 and still had them four years later?


cheers   Phil Rickard


Re: : RE: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

sncs@...
 

Hi Peter, 

We have on occasion run interesting items that have appeared on the Yahoo Group, and I like where this discussion is heading. We're a few weeks off starting the December issue ( October is expected to be mailed out this Thursday), so we can see how things develop.

Regards, 

Scott Gould, 

Editor Light Railways


Re: : RE: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

Stuart Thyer
 

Hi Peter
You raise a good point. I do keep an eye on the yahoo group for interesting material to include in the research section but I sometimes struggle to convert into meaningful items. Sometimes the mystery is resolved quickly, leaving me unsure as to whether the item was significant. Sometimes there are so many theories and tidbits of info that it becomes impossible to pull all the bits together in a way that won't further confuse the story. Sometimes I just forget to follow up too!
This item is probably worthy of following up
Regards
Stuart


Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

Tony Coen
 

That’s an interesting concept, John. Russell Allport’s works were located in Salamanca Place in those days (right on the waterfront). Hobart had a 3’6” electric tramway system, but no doubt, the voltage was probably much different. Nevertheless, something could have been arranged, one would think, even in the Hobart Loco. Yards, where a Cornwall Ruston engine was trialled at one stage. Other than that, there wasn’t anything with power nearby.
 
The chain couplings give the game away in reference to the scene being a trial run, hence my supposition.
 
If more of the vessel tied up in the background was apparent, one could put a circa date on the picture.
 
I also agree with Peter about the collation of outcomes from these types of images that spring up from time to time.
 
Cheers,
 
    Tony.
 

Sent: Tuesday, September 22, 2015 9:10 AM
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco
 
 

The chain coupling looks to be unsatisfactory. You would expect them to use bar couplings.

The clothes suggest to me a date around 1914?

Interesting idea that it might have been on trial.

Was there any closer location to the Russell Allport works where a temporary overhead might have been rigged up?

If the customer was not Huon Timber Co, then who could it have been?

John


Seaworld

Petan
 

Seaworld tramway opening image. Source newspaper has title and data.

Cheers
Peter Cokley

 
Photo by Peter C

 


Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

John Browning
 

The chain coupling looks to be unsatisfactory. You would expect them to use bar couplings.

The clothes suggest to me a date around 1914?

 

Interesting idea that it might have been on trial.

Was there any closer location to the Russell Allport works where a temporary overhead might have been rigged up?

 

If the customer was not Huon Timber Co, then who could it have been?

 

John

 


Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

Hunslet
 

From time to time, inquiries such as this (often with most interesting photos) appear on this page, together with detailed responses – as with Tony’s reply to this inquiry.

But these details usually get lost in due course on the internet.  

It would be great if more of these reports, as finalised, to graduate over to a more permanent recording system in our Light Railways magazine.

For consideration by the powers-that-be!

 

Peter Neve OAM.

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Monday, 21 September 2015 10:58 PM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

 

 

Good posed photo., James. Note the chocks under the wagon wheels!

 

It’s certainly a Russell Allport product – the name is stamped on the underframe.

 

As for where and when it is, that’s difficult. I had never heard of this machine before, but I provide the following comments:

  • The gauge appears to be 3’6”;
  • The closely-spaced buffers replicate those on the Kennedy-built log-hauler loco. that worked on Tyler’s 3’6” gauge Tramway at Ida Bay. There was no electricity there and the jetty was not very wide;
  • There are stacks of floor boards and 4x4 beams on the pier/wharf. They could indicate end products from Huon Timber Coy’s. Mill at Whale Pt., Geeveston, where there was ample electricity.

May I suggest that this is a photo. of a trial run of an electric loco. The overhead appears to be a temporary set-up. The background is similar and close enough to the pier to be HTC’s port and as already stated, electricity was available at the nearby large mill. The loco. may have been ordered for a mining show, but I don’t recognize it from any Tasmanian workings except that it is similar to the early Cornwall Coal Coy. underground engine. There is always the possibility of it being used as shunting engine between HTC’s mill and the pier head, but again, no evidence of that occurring has been sighted. A 3’6” gauge line ran along the pier, but no loco. has been photographed working on it. Additionally, the pier always seemed to be cluttered with timber and which suggested trolley wagon use prevailed.

 

All supposition on my part, James, but I have no other ideas. Hope somebody can shed some light.

 

Cheers,

 

    Tony Coen.

 

Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 11:55 AM

Subject: [LRRSA] Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

 

 

Hi

I'm after a bit more info on the loco shown in the following link. Pretty certain it was built by Allport in Hobart but not sure when or which railway.

thanks

James

 

._,___


Re: Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco

Tony Coen
 

Good posed photo., James. Note the chocks under the wagon wheels!
 
It’s certainly a Russell Allport product – the name is stamped on the underframe.
 
As for where and when it is, that’s difficult. I had never heard of this machine before, but I provide the following comments:
  • The gauge appears to be 3’6”;
  • The closely-spaced buffers replicate those on the Kennedy-built log-hauler loco. that worked on Tyler’s 3’6” gauge Tramway at Ida Bay. There was no electricity there and the jetty was not very wide;
  • There are stacks of floor boards and 4x4 beams on the pier/wharf. They could indicate end products from Huon Timber Coy’s. Mill at Whale Pt., Geeveston, where there was ample electricity.
May I suggest that this is a photo. of a trial run of an electric loco. The overhead appears to be a temporary set-up. The background is similar and close enough to the pier to be HTC’s port and as already stated, electricity was available at the nearby large mill. The loco. may have been ordered for a mining show, but I don’t recognize it from any Tasmanian workings except that it is similar to the early Cornwall Coal Coy. underground engine. There is always the possibility of it being used as shunting engine between HTC’s mill and the pier head, but again, no evidence of that occurring has been sighted. A 3’6” gauge line ran along the pier, but no loco. has been photographed working on it. Additionally, the pier always seemed to be cluttered with timber and which suggested trolley wagon use prevailed.
 
All supposition on my part, James, but I have no other ideas. Hope somebody can shed some light.
 
Cheers,
 
    Tony Coen.
 

Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 11:55 AM
Subject: [LRRSA] Geeveston/Hopetoun electric loco
 
 

Hi
I'm after a bit more info on the loco shown in the following link. Pretty certain it was built by Allport in Hobart but not sure when or which railway.
thanks
James
 

1901 - 1920 of 10235