Date   
Re: Baldwin nineteenth century locomotives - their art and architecture

BM
 

Hi David,

I noted your posting some time back. It’s good to hear that the digital version of ARH is getting exposure as we have still to get data on sales from the distributors.

 

By getting the online version, you missed out on the A3 size fold-outs of David Fletcher’s drawings as the digital formatting didn’t lend itself to such special effects! Still l, I hope you fond the reorientated A4 drawings worthwhile.

 

Regards

Bob McKillop

 

Editor, Australian Railway History

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Saturday, 18 April 2015 10:09 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Baldwin nineteenth century locomotives - their art and architecture

 

 

Thanks for the tip-off Frank - I bought the online version.

 

It’s very illuminating for people, like me, used to British systems.

 

David 1/2d

former Project Manager, Rail Vehicle Records

and Information Manager, Rolling Stock Leasing Companies,

British Railways Board

 

 

On 14 Apr 2015, at 08:21, frank.stamford@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

The April 2015 issue of 'Australian Railway History' (published by Australian Railway Historical Society, NSW Div.) has an extremely interesting 18 page article by David Fletcher titled 'The art and architecture of the early American locomotive imports to New South Wales'.

Whilst it purports to be about the U 105 class and J 131 class locomotives, which were mainline 4-4-0 and 2-8-0 locomotives built by Baldwin, the article is much more than that, and should be very useful to anyone with an interest in nineteenth century Baldwin locomotives.

The article includes a brief history of Baldwin, and a detailed explanation of their methods of designing and managing the manufacture of locomotives. It also includes a detailed discussion on the influences of classical architecture on the designs of nineteenth century American locomotives. There are many excellent illustrations.

The information on the elaborate liveries applied to the locomotives is given in great detail, and the coloured drawings of the Baldwin 4-4-0 and 2-8-0 locomotives supplied to NSW are beautiful works of art.

If you have an interest in nineteenth century Baldwin locomotives this is well worth seeking out. It should be available at good newsagents.

An enormous amount of careful work is behind this article and it deserves wide circulation I think.

A version is also available online from an organisation called Pocketmags. Google 'pocketmags' and you should be able to find it on their website.

Regards,

Frank

 

 

Re: Melbourne underground loop construction monorail

Chris Stratton
 

Stuart,

All I can see on 32 is something around the edge of the hole, guarding maybe with a fence attached.

Regards,
Chris



----- Original Message -----
From:
LRRSA@...

To:

Cc:

Sent:
Fri, 01 May 2015 11:16:42 +1000
Subject:
[LRRSA] Melbourne underground loop construction monorail




I was sent this link to a very interesting set of images of construction of the Melbourne underground loop http://1drv.ms/1zhcJ6l. While mostly of no relevance to light railways, two images reveal what might well be construction monorails. In frame 8, it’s reasonably obvious, in frame 32, look at the hole on the right and zoom in. I presume this hole was an access hole when boring was occurring and that it might be a monorail coming out

Stuart Thyer




Email sent using Optus Webmail

Melbourne underground loop construction monorail

Stuart Thyer
 

I was sent this link to a very interesting set of images of construction of the Melbourne underground loop http://1drv.ms/1zhcJ6l. While mostly of no relevance to light railways, two images reveal what might well be construction monorails. In frame 8, it’s reasonably obvious, in frame 32, look at the hole on the right and zoom in. I presume this hole was an access hole when boring was occurring and that it might be a monorail coming out

Stuart Thyer

Re: Fiji

John Browning
 

There’s also a Fowler steam loco preserved in the front gardens of the hotel opposite the airport (Raffles Gateway).

I can’t say what machinery is in use inside the mills as there’s been more than enough to attract my interest on the rails outside.

 

John

 

John Browning

Brisbane

Australia

 

Re: Fiji

denis.wasley
 

G’Day John,
Thanks for your input.
The trip is not yet a done deal as we still have to decide if we are going or not.
Do you know if there are still any steam powered mill engines? That may be the decider for me as I can spend another $500 on air fares and go to London instead.
cheers
Denis
 

Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 7:39 PM
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Fiji
 
 

Hello Denis

Chris has provided the big picture.

I thoroughly recommend a holiday in Fiji. The people are very friendly and welcoming.

Local rail sites around Nadi you may want to look at would include the navvy depot at Natova (near Sabeto) and the loco sub-depot at Navo.

The Natova depot is on the Queen’s Road about 5 km north of the airport on the left hand side.

Google maps reference is -17.724981, 177.452524.

If you head over there about 8am you’ll find the friendly crew preparing their line car for the day’s work. A bonus is that shift changes on locos often occur in this area about that time also.

The Navo loco depot is on the left hand side of the Queen’s Road about 2km south of the location of the Hindu Temple in Nadi which is situated where the Queen’s Road is joined by the Nadi Back Road on the southern outskirts of the town. The main line is on the right and the line to the depot crosses the highway. 

Google maps reference is -17.809899, 177.402467

There’s quite a number of locos kept at this depot and also a navvy line car. There’s usually friendly maintenance staff there during the day as locos come and go.

If you get a few prints of your Cobdogla railway run off at Officeworks, they’ll be well received. You may also receive requests to send the odd print of Fiji Sugar locos back to Fiji.

I always go through official channels to gain access to the mill premises themselves, which are fenced and guarded.

Looking forward to hearing about your trip.

John

John Browning

Brisbane

Australia

Re: : Re: : Re: Rust removal using cirtic acid

Kevin Sewell
 




He was heard to mutter (much to the sniggering amusement of the family) that he should be bottling this stuff....

As a self confessed non-cat person, I would be bottling the cat!!!

Re: : Rust removal using cirtic acid

Mark S
 

I have done a lot of rust removal and use two methods already mentioned and  none involving acid which is better avoided in my book.though with that said my methods may not be practical in all cases.
 
Molasses at 8 water to 1 molasses is good for large items.Soak for a minimum of a week till its stinks to high heaven and foams.  DO NOT use it to clean steel bearings as it damages  the hardening. I suspect the same if using some acids. Molasses does not affect alloys like aluminium or brass. Not sure what any type of acid would do to alloys and I would not risk it.Use molasses outside and away from the house as the stink is bad and also use gloves as your hands will be stained for a week.It is a once only use and you will have to mix a new batch for the next job. Its OK to dispose of it down the sewer or in the garden as its organic unlike any acid product!
 
Electrolysis is my other method.I use a solution of a small handle full of washing (electric) soda in a 10 litre bucket dissolving it completely. Some one said to use Bi carb..it does not work properly so do not use it.
 
A lead anode is the best so I cast a piece of lead into a 12inch by 3/4 inch by 3/4  inch ingot. An old piece of steel will also work but will have to be cleaned ever so often. I use a 12/ 24 volt battery charger with a fuse in one of the charging leads. I cannot stress using a fuse highly enough as an accidental short of the item you are cleaning with the anode is a strong possibility. Connect the positive of the charger to the Anode and the negative to the item you want cleaned. Place the anode and item to be cleaned in the container with the washing soda solution. Make sure they are far enough apart and secure so they can’t touch..ever! It does not matter if the charger clip goes into the solution. It is more important to get the whole of the item in the solution.
 
If I want a quick clean on a small item I switch to 24 volts and its done in a couple of hours. Larger items take  longer and it pays to rotate every so often so all surfaces get the full affect. It cleans steel bearings a treat without affecting the hardening but of course if the rust has eaten into the roller or race you will still have damage. Do not use the electrolysis method on alloys. I have a badly pocked aluminum piston that was jammed in a cast engine block (piston now useless) as proof. 
 
Hydrogen will be emitted as the electrolysis method does its job..do it in a ventilated area. The solution can be used over and over though after time you will be surprised how much sludge builds up at the bottom of the container. Again it can be disposed of down the sewer when spent though any residue that may contain traces of lead paint or other toxic contaminants will have to be disposed of in the correct way.
 
As with both methods above once the item is out of the solution I clean and immediately coat with oil or WD40 etc as the item  will surface rust before your eyes.
 
You will also need to remove any grease, paint etc. though with the electrolysis method quite often it will loosen paint as long as some of the item to be cleaned has bare metal for the conduction.
 
There is a product on the market called DE-OX. I have been told its good and gets into tight places like a seized engine without alloy damage so will be giving that a try in due course.
 
Mark Swaby

Re: Fiji

Chris Stratton
 

None in service. One stuffed and mounted in front of Rarawai Mill and another in the yard at Penang Mill. Lautoka used to have one but it is now in service at Statfold Barn in UK. The Coral Coast Railway at Yanuca used to have a Hudswell Clarke powered by a diesel in the tender, it too has returned to the UK and been restored at Statfold Barn.

 

Regards,

Chris

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2015 12:23 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Fiji

 




G’Day Chris,

Do they have any real locos? i.e. steam?

cheers

Denis

 

Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 8:19 PM

Subject: RE: [LRRSA] Fiji

 

 

Denis,

Some of my photos from Fiji are in an album on Flickr at https://www.flickr.com/photos/gm4201/sets/72157627621476965/ if you want to get an idea of what you might see.

There is a photo of a train on the bridge at Sigatoka, unfortunately you want be able to see that as a storm knocked out part of the bridge a few years back.

My wife and I are currently planning our next trip to Fiji for Sep/Oct next year.

Regards,

Chris

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2015 7:18 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Fiji





G’Day,

I may have the chance of a week on the main island of Fiji in a time share unit near the airport.

Any ideas on what’s available to see and do? e.g sugar mills and railways?

thanks and cheers

Denis Wasley

Berri SA








Re: Fiji

denis.wasley
 

G’Day Chris,
Do they have any real locos? i.e. steam?
cheers
Denis
 

Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 8:19 PM
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] Fiji
 
 

Denis,

Some of my photos from Fiji are in an album on Flickr at https://www.flickr.com/photos/gm4201/sets/72157627621476965/ if you want to get an idea of what you might see.

There is a photo of a train on the bridge at Sigatoka, unfortunately you want be able to see that as a storm knocked out part of the bridge a few years back.

My wife and I are currently planning our next trip to Fiji for Sep/Oct next year.

Regards,

Chris

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2015 7:18 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Fiji




G’Day,

I may have the chance of a week on the main island of Fiji in a time share unit near the airport.

Any ideas on what’s available to see and do? e.g sugar mills and railways?

thanks and cheers

Denis Wasley

Berri SA




Re: Fiji

Chris Stratton
 

Denis,

 

Some of my photos from Fiji are in an album on Flickr at https://www.flickr.com/photos/gm4201/sets/72157627621476965/ if you want to get an idea of what you might see.

There is a photo of a train on the bridge at Sigatoka, unfortunately you want be able to see that as a storm knocked out part of the bridge a few years back.

My wife and I are currently planning our next trip to Fiji for Sep/Oct next year.

 

Regards,

Chris

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2015 7:18 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Fiji

 




G’Day,

I may have the chance of a week on the main island of Fiji in a time share unit near the airport.

Any ideas on what’s available to see and do? e.g sugar mills and railways?

thanks and cheers

Denis Wasley

Berri SA




Re: Fiji

John Browning
 

Hello Denis

 

Chris has provided the big picture.

 

I thoroughly recommend a holiday in Fiji. The people are very friendly and welcoming.

 

Local rail sites around Nadi you may want to look at would include the navvy depot at Natova (near Sabeto) and the loco sub-depot at Navo.

 

The Natova depot is on the Queen’s Road about 5 km north of the airport on the left hand side.

Google maps reference is -17.724981, 177.452524.

If you head over there about 8am you’ll find the friendly crew preparing their line car for the day’s work. A bonus is that shift changes on locos often occur in this area about that time also.

 

The Navo loco depot is on the left hand side of the Queen’s Road about 2km south of the location of the Hindu Temple in Nadi which is situated where the Queen’s Road is joined by the Nadi Back Road on the southern outskirts of the town. The main line is on the right and the line to the depot crosses the highway.  

Google maps reference is -17.809899, 177.402467

There’s quite a number of locos kept at this depot and also a navvy line car. There’s usually friendly maintenance staff there during the day as locos come and go.

 

If you get a few prints of your Cobdogla railway run off at Officeworks, they’ll be well received. You may also receive requests to send the odd print of Fiji Sugar locos back to Fiji.

 

I always go through official channels to gain access to the mill premises themselves, which are fenced and guarded.

 

Looking forward to hearing about your trip.

 

John

 

John Browning

Brisbane

Australia

 

Re: : Re: : Re: Rust removal using cirtic acid

halfpilotstaff
 

Not that I recommend using it, but there is something quite chemically powerful in feline urine, particularly if it's emanated from an unneutered tom.

My Dad, who has used the molasses formula over the years with reasonable success, had had some body parts of one of his vintage cars (a 1924 Sunbeam 20/60 tourer) passivated zinc plated, so as to ensure their long life.

At this time we didn't have a dog, so the local tomcats (brimming with feline testosterone) had territorialised the nether portions of the yard (where the vintage car parts were stored). Of course some of the plated parts of the Sunbeam were duly "marked", and on inspection, Dad found that the cat pee had eaten right through the zinc plating back to the metal!

He was heard to mutter (much to the sniggering amusement of the family) that he should be bottling this stuff....

Re: Fiji

neville conder
 


Should be OK in July. Usually start in June.
 
Neville

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 7:45 AM
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Fiji

 

G’Day Chris,
Thanks for the information.
Forgive an ignorant grape picker, when is the sugar crushing season? The time share is available in July.
cheers
Denis
 
Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 7:00 AM
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] Fiji
 
 

Lots to do Denis, as long as you go in crushing season.

Lautoka mill is only about 30 mins north of Nadi airport, the line south from the mill crosses the access road into the airport. Rarawai mill is about another hour north of Lautoka at Ba and if you are really adventurous Penang mill is even further north-east. I’ve been to Lautoka and Rarawai mills quite a few times but only been to Penang once as it is a long drive and the road was terrible. I found only loco driver that didn’t like me taking photos, all the rest are really friendly.

I’ve never been into the actual mills but access to other areas is generally easy, occasionally I’ve had to give a guard a dollar or two.

Regards,

Chris

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2015 7:18 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Fiji




G’Day,

I may have the chance of a week on the main island of Fiji in a time share unit near the airport.

Any ideas on what’s available to see and do? e.g sugar mills and railways?

thanks and cheers

Denis Wasley

Berri SA




Re: Fiji

denis.wasley
 

G’Day Chris,
Thanks for the information.
Forgive an ignorant grape picker, when is the sugar crushing season? The time share is available in July.
cheers
Denis
 

Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2015 7:00 AM
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] Fiji
 
 

Lots to do Denis, as long as you go in crushing season.

Lautoka mill is only about 30 mins north of Nadi airport, the line south from the mill crosses the access road into the airport. Rarawai mill is about another hour north of Lautoka at Ba and if you are really adventurous Penang mill is even further north-east. I’ve been to Lautoka and Rarawai mills quite a few times but only been to Penang once as it is a long drive and the road was terrible. I found only loco driver that didn’t like me taking photos, all the rest are really friendly.

I’ve never been into the actual mills but access to other areas is generally easy, occasionally I’ve had to give a guard a dollar or two.

Regards,

Chris

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2015 7:18 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Fiji




G’Day,

I may have the chance of a week on the main island of Fiji in a time share unit near the airport.

Any ideas on what’s available to see and do? e.g sugar mills and railways?

thanks and cheers

Denis Wasley

Berri SA




Re: Fiji

Chris Stratton
 

Lots to do Denis, as long as you go in crushing season.

Lautoka mill is only about 30 mins north of Nadi airport, the line south from the mill crosses the access road into the airport. Rarawai mill is about another hour north of Lautoka at Ba and if you are really adventurous Penang mill is even further north-east. I’ve been to Lautoka and Rarawai mills quite a few times but only been to Penang once as it is a long drive and the road was terrible. I found only loco driver that didn’t like me taking photos, all the rest are really friendly.

I’ve never been into the actual mills but access to other areas is generally easy, occasionally I’ve had to give a guard a dollar or two.

 

Regards,

Chris

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2015 7:18 AM
To: LRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] Fiji

 




G’Day,

I may have the chance of a week on the main island of Fiji in a time share unit near the airport.

Any ideas on what’s available to see and do? e.g sugar mills and railways?

thanks and cheers

Denis Wasley

Berri SA




Fiji

denis.wasley
 

G’Day,
I may have the chance of a week on the main island of Fiji in a time share unit near the airport.
Any ideas on what’s available to see and do? e.g sugar mills and railways?
thanks and cheers
Denis Wasley
Berri SA

OFF TOPIC More narrow gauge photos from the UK

Michael C.
 

Hi all,
 
I'm getting old and can't remember if I've plugged these albums already - if I have I apologise for filling your inboxes!
 
On the 18th April I was in Porthmadog to chase a special train called The Snowdonian on the Welsh Highland Railway.
 
 
On the 19th April I went to see the Bala Lake Railway. I was hoping to see Winifred in steam but she was out of service with a hot box.
 
 
Last Sunday I went to see the 15" gauge Kirklees Light Railway and their new addition - a locomotive called Katie formerly employed on the Fairbourne Railway in mid Wales.
 
 
Take a look if you're interested.
 
Cheers,
 
Michael Chapman

Follow the Welsh Highland Heritage Railway on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/WHHRly
Follow my railway adventures on Flickr at http://tinyurl.com/nlvlnmt

Re: : Re: Rust removal using cirtic acid

David Halfpenny
 

Nice one, Denis, and all true.

Seriously though, it was invented by a soldier who’d become a morphine addict in the American Civil War and needed to come down gently. The Feds made the company replace actual cocaine with caffeine back in 1904, but luckily for us, they let it keep the phosphoric acid.

In Europe we can buy phosphoric acid as a tile cleaner - makes a good soldering flux as well as the things you say. But cheap-shop coke is often easier. It’s a great industrial chemical to have about the house.

Just don’t ever get any on your teeth!

David 1/2d


On 27 Apr 2015, at 16:05, 'Denis Wasley' denis.wasley@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

Water or coke?
Water. The staff of life.
A lack of water is the number one trigger for daytime fatigue.
Even mild dehydration will slow down one’s metabolism by as much as 3%.
One glass of water will shut down midnight hunger pangs.
Research indicates that 8 to 10 glasses of water could significantly ease back and joint pain for up to 80% of sufferers.
A mere 2% drop in body water can trigger short term memory loss, trouble with basic math, and difficulty focusing on the computer screen or printed page.
In 37% of cases, the thirst mechanism is so weak that it is often mistaken for hunger .
Drinking 5 glasses of water daily decreases the risk of colon cancer by 45%, the risk of breast cancer by 79% and bladder cancer by 50%.

 

Coke.
Put a T bone steak in a bowl of coke and it will dissolve in 2 days.
Coke as a toilet cleaner. Pour in a can of coke and leave for one hour before flushing. The citric acid in coke removes stains from vitreous china.
Remove rust spots from your chrome car bumper by rubbing with aluminium foil dipped in coke.
Pour coke over corroded battery terminals to clean them.
To loosen a rusted bolt, apply a coke soaked rag for a few minutes.
To remove grease from clothes. Empty a can of coke into the washing machine along with the dirty clothes and detergent.
Use coke to remove road grime from your windshield.

 

Now was that a can of coke or a glass of water?

 

Denis Wasley
 
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] : Re: Rust removal using cirtic acid
 
 
Years ago I bought a rusty rolling mill - not a steelworks affair, just a lightweight version of the mangle jewellers use to thin down silver sheet.
 
Naturally any texture on the rollers gets imprinted on the workpiece, so I stripped it down to component parts and laid them all out in a plastic cat-litter tray that was just the right size for all the bits. I filled the tray with two litres of cheap cola - active ingredient Phosphoric Acid (+ caffeine + caramel + sugar).
 
Excellent crisp rust removal and a nice grey layer of iron phosphate left behind - some say it has rust protective qualities.
 
So I dried it all out, and stored the machine on a low shelf, neatly laid out in the cat-litter tray.
 
Weeks later, when I come to assemble it, lo!, the effing cat had pee’d in the tray and my smooth rollers were ruined all down one edge.
 
David 1/2d
 
 
 
 
On 26 Apr 2015, at 12:06, mjm@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 
Thanks to everyone who replied on this topic.

I'm not sure I need to worry about Hydrogen embrittlement. The castings all seem to be low quality and have plenty of their own flaws already.

I have used molasses before. I'm not sure where we got it from or what strength we used. It worked slowly and I remember the pungent smell. I think my neighbours would complain if I used it at home.

After poking around on Google for a while I bought a 1kg container of Berger Jet Dry Etch & Clean for $12. This product is 100% anhydrous Actetic acid.I used about half of it in about 5 litres of water to give about a 10% solution. I soaked various things in it for a couple of weeks; including old spikes bolts, nuts and a couple of coal skip wheel bearings. The results were very good. The spike and bolts cleaned up perfectly.

The first bearing block was soaked with no real preparation at all. I soon discovered that the acid will effectively remove exposed rust, but cannot work through any surface layers of grease, paint or other muck. Coal skip bearing blocks and wheels are coated in a thick hard layer of grease and coal dust. This has the consistency of cold toffee and is almost as hard.

The second bearing block that I soaked was cleaned first by scraping away as much as possible and then hitting it with a wire brush in an electric drill. This gave good results after a week of soaking. I did remove it a couple of time, flush it in water and scrub it to remove any loose surface grime. I'm sure if I had left it for longer I would have got very good results. However in my impatience I decided to finish off by grit blasting. The result was excellent and the grit blasting time and effort was about a quarter of what would have been needed without the acid treatment. In any case you need to dry the item off immediately or you will get a fresh layer of surface rust forming.

Of course we need to be very careful handling the acid. I used rubber gloves at all times and was careful not to drip the acid anywhere.

My thoughts are that acetic acid is very useful for clean rusty items, provided you have a container big enough and enough acid. I have been told it is very good for delicate items that will not handle grit blasting. For the sort of things I am working on which are generally very rusty and covered in all sorts of muck I do wonder if the initial clean up, then acid treatment is significantly better than just grit blasting.

Regards,
Michael Milway.
 

Re: : Re: Rust removal using cirtic acid

denis.wasley
 

Water or coke?

Water. The staff of life.

A lack of water is the number one trigger for daytime fatigue.

Even mild dehydration will slow down one’s metabolism by as much as 3%.

One glass of water will shut down midnight hunger pangs.

Research indicates that 8 to 10 glasses of water could significantly ease back and joint pain for up to 80% of sufferers.

A mere 2% drop in body water can trigger short term memory loss, trouble with basic math, and difficulty focusing on the computer screen or printed page.

In 37% of cases, the thirst mechanism is so weak that it is often mistaken for hunger .

Drinking 5 glasses of water daily decreases the risk of colon cancer by 45%, the risk of breast cancer by 79% and bladder cancer by 50%.

 

Coke.

Put a T bone steak in a bowl of coke and it will dissolve in 2 days.

Coke as a toilet cleaner. Pour in a can of coke and leave for one hour before flushing. The citric acid in coke removes stains from vitreous china.

Remove rust spots from your chrome car bumper by rubbing with aluminium foil dipped in coke.

Pour coke over corroded battery terminals to clean them.

To loosen a rusted bolt, apply a coke soaked rag for a few minutes.

To remove grease from clothes. Empty a can of coke into the washing machine along with the dirty clothes and detergent.

Use coke to remove road grime from your windshield.

 

Now was that a can of coke or a glass of water?

 

Denis Wasley

 

Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] : Re: Rust removal using cirtic acid
 
 

Years ago I bought a rusty rolling mill - not a steelworks affair, just a lightweight version of the mangle jewellers use to thin down silver sheet.

 
Naturally any texture on the rollers gets imprinted on the workpiece, so I stripped it down to component parts and laid them all out in a plastic cat-litter tray that was just the right size for all the bits. I filled the tray with two litres of cheap cola - active ingredient Phosphoric Acid (+ caffeine + caramel + sugar).
 
Excellent crisp rust removal and a nice grey layer of iron phosphate left behind - some say it has rust protective qualities.
 
So I dried it all out, and stored the machine on a low shelf, neatly laid out in the cat-litter tray.
 
Weeks later, when I come to assemble it, lo!, the effing cat had pee’d in the tray and my smooth rollers were ruined all down one edge.
 
David 1/2d
 
 
 
 
On 26 Apr 2015, at 12:06, mjm@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 
Thanks to everyone who replied on this topic.

I'm not sure I need to worry about Hydrogen embrittlement. The castings all seem to be low quality and have plenty of their own flaws already.

I have used molasses before. I'm not sure where we got it from or what strength we used. It worked slowly and I remember the pungent smell. I think my neighbours would complain if I used it at home.

After poking around on Google for a while I bought a 1kg container of Berger Jet Dry Etch & Clean for $12. This product is 100% anhydrous Actetic acid.I used about half of it in about 5 litres of water to give about a 10% solution. I soaked various things in it for a couple of weeks; including old spikes bolts, nuts and a couple of coal skip wheel bearings. The results were very good. The spike and bolts cleaned up perfectly.

The first bearing block was soaked with no real preparation at all. I soon discovered that the acid will effectively remove exposed rust, but cannot work through any surface layers of grease, paint or other muck. Coal skip bearing blocks and wheels are coated in a thick hard layer of grease and coal dust. This has the consistency of cold toffee and is almost as hard.

The second bearing block that I soaked was cleaned first by scraping away as much as possible and then hitting it with a wire brush in an electric drill. This gave good results after a week of soaking. I did remove it a couple of time, flush it in water and scrub it to remove any loose surface grime. I'm sure if I had left it for longer I would have got very good results. However in my impatience I decided to finish off by grit blasting. The result was excellent and the grit blasting time and effort was about a quarter of what would have been needed without the acid treatment. In any case you need to dry the item off immediately or you will get a fresh layer of surface rust forming.

Of course we need to be very careful handling the acid. I used rubber gloves at all times and was careful not to drip the acid anywhere.

My thoughts are that acetic acid is very useful for clean rusty items, provided you have a container big enough and enough acid. I have been told it is very good for delicate items that will not handle grit blasting. For the sort of things I am working on which are generally very rusty and covered in all sorts of muck I do wonder if the initial clean up, then acid treatment is significantly better than just grit blasting.

Regards,
Michael Milway.
 

Re: : Re: Rust removal using cirtic acid

David Halfpenny
 

Years ago I bought a rusty rolling mill - not a steelworks affair, just a lightweight version of the mangle jewellers use to thin down silver sheet.

Naturally any texture on the rollers gets imprinted on the workpiece, so I stripped it down to component parts and laid them all out in a plastic cat-litter tray that was just the right size for all the bits. I filled the tray with two litres of cheap cola - active ingredient Phosphoric Acid (+ caffeine + caramel + sugar).

Excellent crisp rust removal and a nice grey layer of iron phosphate left behind - some say it has rust protective qualities.

So I dried it all out, and stored the machine on a low shelf, neatly laid out in the cat-litter tray.

Weeks later, when I come to assemble it, lo!, the effing cat had pee’d in the tray and my smooth rollers were ruined all down one edge.

David 1/2d




On 26 Apr 2015, at 12:06, mjm@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

Thanks to everyone who replied on this topic.

I'm not sure I need to worry about Hydrogen embrittlement. The castings all seem to be low quality and have plenty of their own flaws already.

I have used molasses before. I'm not sure where we got it from or what strength we used. It worked slowly and I remember the pungent smell. I think my neighbours would complain if I used it at home.

After poking around on Google for a while I bought a 1kg container of Berger Jet Dry Etch & Clean for $12. This product is 100% anhydrous Actetic acid.I used about half of it in about 5 litres of water to give about a 10% solution. I soaked various things in it for a couple of weeks; including old spikes bolts, nuts and a couple of coal skip wheel bearings. The results were very good. The spike and bolts cleaned up perfectly.

The first bearing block was soaked with no real preparation at all. I soon discovered that the acid will effectively remove exposed rust, but cannot work through any surface layers of grease, paint or other muck. Coal skip bearing blocks and wheels are coated in a thick hard layer of grease and coal dust. This has the consistency of cold toffee and is almost as hard.

The second bearing block that I soaked was cleaned first by scraping away as much as possible and then hitting it with a wire brush in an electric drill. This gave good results after a week of soaking. I did remove it a couple of time, flush it in water and scrub it to remove any loose surface grime. I'm sure if I had left it for longer I would have got very good results. However in my impatience I decided to finish off by grit blasting. The result was excellent and the grit blasting time and effort was about a quarter of what would have been needed without the acid treatment. In any case you need to dry the item off immediately or you will get a fresh layer of surface rust forming.

Of course we need to be very careful handling the acid. I used rubber gloves at all times and was careful not to drip the acid anywhere.

My thoughts are that acetic acid is very useful for clean rusty items, provided you have a container big enough and enough acid. I have been told it is very good for delicate items that will not handle grit blasting. For the sort of things I am working on which are generally very rusty and covered in all sorts of muck I do wonder if the initial clean up, then acid treatment is significantly better than just grit blasting.

Regards,
Michael Milway.