Date   

Re: Port Macquarie tramways

David Halfpenny (Yahoo 1) <tuppenced@...>
 

Here’s the “Little Grey Fergie” that took over from a heavy horse at Aberllefenni, round the other side of the planet.
These rocks were slabs of slate, extracted from the oldest known slate mine in the world.




You may as well have the horse picture as well :-)


David 1/2d


An old timer once told me the wagons of rock were pulled by 'tractors'.

Michael Marczan




Re: Port Macquarie tramways

Michael Marczan <michaelmarczan@...>
 

G'day Chris,

I live in Port Macquarie, some tracks, including a point are still in place on the north breakwall.  I lived on the North Shore for 20 odd years.  There is also a explosive magazine about halfway between the quarry and the breakwall (very well hidden in the scrub).

An old timer once told be the wagons of rock were pulled by 'tractors'.

Michael Marczan



Port Macquarie tramways

Chris Stratton
 

I'm in Port Macquarie again and I've been to the local museum to try and find info on the tramways used in the construction of the north and south breakwalls at the Hastings River mouth. Unfortunately the museum had nothing. I saw one photo somewhere which was captioned as during the south wall construction and it showed people and a section of track but no rail vehicles.
The museum had a photo of the Hibbard sawmill at Port Macquarie while showed rail lines in the mill area. I think the mill closed in 1958.

Regards,
Chris



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Re: NA in correct format

Frank Stamford
 



On 16 Jan 2015, at 12:06 pm, "'Iain Stuart' iain_stuart@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

Why are we not discussing D1’s… etc    possibly because they are not Light?


Yes they certainly are not 'light' in LRRSA terms. Apart from that the discussion was about NA locomotives, not broad gauge locomotives.

However, as the matter has been raised, and despite this being outside the LRRSA's area of interest, here is a list of VR broad gauge loco classes which had a second supplementary letter or number:

AA 4-4-0
A1 4-6-0
A2 4-6-0
DD 4-6-0
D1 4-6-0
D2 4-6-0
D3 4-6-0
D4 4-6-2T
EE 0-6-2T
FE 2-4-0T
ME 4-4-2T

The FE and ME did not carry the E on the class plate on the loco. 

In addition there was the DDE 4-6-2T. In this case the second D was above the E and the total height of the stacked D and E was the same as the first D on the cast plates on the locos. The E on the DDE class was to indicate it was a tank engine version of the DD.

All the DD class were reclassified as either of D1, D2, or D3. D1s had saturated boilers, D2s had superheated boilers, and D3s had larger superheated boilers. The DDE class was a tank engine version of the original DD (not the D2 or D3 variant). Why the VR decided to reclassify the DDE as D4 I do not know. The DDE class were designed to be converted to DD when suburban electrification was completed, but I think this only happened to two of them. Many D1s and D2s were converted to D3s

The second E on the EE was to indicate that it was an 0-6-2T version of the otherwise identical E class 2-4-2T locos. When all but one of the 2-4-2T E class were either scrapped or converted to 0-6-2T the EE class were reclassified E.

The E on the FE was to indicate it was a tank engine rebuild of the F class 2-4-0.

The ME class was a 4-4-2T rebuild of the M class 4-4-0T.

And to answer another question that was raised, future historians will not be confused by all of this, as it is very well documented. But it will certainly be confusing to those with a casual interest. 

By the way, the D3 was perhaps the most successful of all the VR's steam locomotives, they could do anything (within the limits of their power) and they could go anywhere on the broad gauge system. And they looked beautiful (in my opinion!).

Regards,

Frank

 

Cheers

 

Dr Iain Stuart

 

JCIS Consultants

P.O. Box 2397

Burwood North

NSW 2134

Australia

 

(02) 97010191

Iain_Stuart@...


Re: NA in correct format

Iain
 

Why are we not discussing D1’s… etc    possibly because they are not Light?

 

Cheers

 

Dr Iain Stuart

 

JCIS Consultants

P.O. Box 2397

Burwood North

NSW 2134

Australia

 

(02) 97010191

Iain_Stuart@...


Re: NA in correct format

Noel Reed
 

The Victorian Railways D4 suburban tank locomotives were earlier classed  ‘DDE’  How was this derived and why was it changed ?

 

Noel Reed.

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Friday, 16 January 2015 11:29 AM
To: lRRSA@...
Subject: [LRRSA] NA in correct format

 

 

G'day All,

Thanks to Frank for his definitave source. This proper format can be achieved in
MSWord with a bit of effort. Here is how to do it.

1 They NA in the font required for the A portion. This would usually be the body
font.
2 Highlight the N and set the font size to half the body font size.

3 Select Format, Font, Character Spacing.

4 Select in Position Raised and (by trial and error) setect the amount in points.
This will be about 1/4 the body font size.

Of course all this depends on your screen and printer. You may have to play about.

I think the cause of the variations are ignoorance or laziness.

Why is it in discussing the variations no one mentioned the Ds. D1 D2 D3 and D4
.

Regards,

Bill Russell

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NA in correct format

Bill Russell
 

G'day All,

Thanks to Frank for his definitave source. This proper format can be achieved in
MSWord with a bit of effort. Here is how to do it.

1 They NA in the font required for the A portion. This would usually be the body
font.
2 Highlight the N and set the font size to half the body font size.

3 Select Format, Font, Character Spacing.

4 Select in Position Raised and (by trial and error) setect the amount in points.
This will be about 1/4 the body font size.

Of course all this depends on your screen and printer. You may have to play about.

I think the cause of the variations are ignoorance or laziness.

Why is it in discussing the variations no one mentioned the Ds. D1 D2 D3 and D4
.

Regards,

Bill Russell


Re: Ease my Mind : a VRNG 2-6-2 is called an... [1 Attachment]

Eddie Oliver
 

On 15/01/2015 17:19, Frank Stamford frank.stamford@... [LRRSA] wrote:

"NA" is acceptable and was used by the VR in much of their documentation, but it is not how the VR Rolling Stock Branch intended it to be printed. The reason it is acceptable is that to do it in the correct way (which I am about to describe) is difficult in typesetting, and in desk-top publishing software, and might not be possible in MS Word.


The technique suggested at
http://www.wordbanter.com/showthread.php?t=56961
may work in Word - I have not tried it



Re: Rarotonga Tramway

BM
 

Folks,

I have looked at Rod’s images. The scene looks to be very much the same as it was when I had a special tour of the facilities in June 2004. It was late in the day when I got there, so it wasn’t great for photography and I only got a few photos in before it was too dark. As I recollect, I didn’t report on this ‘proposed tourist railway’ in LR on the grounds that it was NZ ‘territory’, although I did include a report in the ‘Continental Railway Journal’.

 

At the time of my visit, I formed the opinion that the project would never get off the ground, which pretty much sums upthe Cook Islands!

 

Bob McKillop

 

From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...]
Sent: Thursday, 15 January 2015 9:07 PM
To: LRRSA Yahoogroup
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Rarotonga Tramway

 

 

Fascinating stuff...

 

John

 

On 15 January 2015 at 20:58, Rod Hutchinson rodhutchy@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

Hi John,

The story as I know it is at:
http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/cook02.htm

Regards
Rod Hutchinson
Australia

On Jan 15, 2015 8:55 PM, "John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

They are very interesting photos, Rod. I wasn't expecting to see a genuine steam loco.  

 

John

 

On 15 January 2015 at 20:49, Rod Hutchinson rodhutchy@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

 

I visited the Cook Islands in Nov 2012 and found a privately built railway located on the island of Rarotonga.  Planned as a tourist railway it has fallen into disrepair and has only 100m of track.

Some pictures:
https://plus.google.com/photos/114407457222550456145/albums/5816717857322070961?banner=pwa

Regards
Rod Hutchinson
Australia

 

 


Re: : Copyright Photo Dilemmas

David Halfpenny (Yahoo 1) <tuppenced@...>
 

Escaped Word Alert!

Corrected: 

Few Wordsmiths seem to realise they wouldn't eat unless it were for farmers, makers, craftsmen, engineers, innovators and industrialists.

David 1/2d


Re: : Copyright Photo Dilemmas

David Halfpenny (Yahoo 1) <tuppenced@...>
 

Absolutely Brian!

The treatment of Designers is even worse - Design Registration is harder to get than a Patent and some would say less useful.
And when it comes to Makers there is no protection at all: unless your design is Novel in a strictly defined way, anybody can reverse-engeer your product thus stealing all your R&D.

I don’t want to be bitter or cynical, but the people who make laws are by definition Wordsmiths, and most of them have day-jobs as such - lawyers in particular.
They protect other Wordsmiths first and foremost, as well as Artsmiths: Photographers, Painters and Composers.

Few of them seem to realise they would eat unless it were for farmers, makers, craftsmen, engineers, innovators and industrialists.

David 1/2d


On 15 Jan 2015, at 10:59, 'Brian' rallim56@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:

The thing that gets me with copyright, anyone can pencil a few words and it is automatically copyrighted, anyone can snap a photo and it is automatically copyrighted, and yet someone can spend many years, countless thousands of dollars, designing and developing something, and then have to again spend many thousands of dollars to have a patent awarded to them, and then they have to pay a service fee each year to retain the patent, and then after 20-25 years they can no longer keep the patent, seems to me a bit unfair, perhaps for those that wish to have or retain copyright on anything, they should have to pay a yearly fee.
 
Brian
Qld. Aust.
 
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re: : Copyright Photo Dilemmas
 


Thanks John,
 
That is quite odd. A photo taken in 1954 is out of copyright now, but a photo taken by the same photographer in 1956 (perhaps at ages 14 and 16, if the photographer was born in 1940) could potentially remain in copyright until 2090 assuming a life span of three score years plus another score for good measure. 
 
That photo would have been a terrific asset for your book. Pity it couldn't be used.
 
John
 
On 15 January 2015 at 17:24, 'John Browning' ceo8@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 
The ‘unreasonable’ date of 1955 is correct as it was used to transition us to be in line with the US regime.
I think you will find that copyright for a photo taken from 1956 onwards now extends for a period 70 years after the death of the photographer.
 
Interestingly, for the book ‘Salute to the Hudswells’ we located the only reasonable photo of Hambledon 8 in service at Hambledon Mill here: http://consumer.fairfaxsyndication.com/archive/Alan-Lambert-around-Australia-trip,-2F3XC52TS4_A.html
 
The photo was almost certainly taken in 1954, meaning that the copyright had expired, but the image was held by Fairfax Media.
Fairfax Media should be acknowledged with gratitude for very kindly providing us with a high-resolution image for study purposes. However the quoted (concessional) reproduction fee would have been $132.
Needless to say, we decided not to use the image.
 
John
 
John Browning
Brisbane
Australia
 
 
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Re: : Copyright Photo Dilemmas

David Gawthorn
 

A big thank you to those who have contributed to this thread - you've
saved me so much angst.


The poster I want to include, the slv quotes that copyright is in the
hands of the artist - I'm now not sure when he dies, the work was
commissioned by Vic Rail sometime around 1930, even the artists shortened
name does not come up with any certainty (Mac). Another leaflet of
interest that appeared from the link kindly supplied is worth reading -
file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/customer/My%20Documents/duration-of-copyright-g023v17.pdf
I'll record details of this brochure on the off-chance that I get
challenged later on as I don't want 'troubles'.


There is a series of 7 posters from post WW2 that I have applied to the
Public Records Office Vic for permission to publish - I'll continue with
that request and then place in the title/credits page.


Thanks all,


David


Re: : Copyright Photo Dilemmas

Brian <rallim56@...>
 

The thing that gets me with copyright, anyone can pencil a few words and it is automatically copyrighted, anyone can snap a photo and it is automatically copyrighted, and yet someone can spend many years, countless thousands of dollars, designing and developing something, and then have to again spend many thousands of dollars to have a patent awarded to them, and then they have to pay a service fee each year to retain the patent, and then after 20-25 years they can no longer keep the patent, seems to me a bit unfair, perhaps for those that wish to have or retain copyright on anything, they should have to pay a yearly fee.
 
Brian
Qld. Aust.
 

Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Re: : Copyright Photo Dilemmas
 


Thanks John,
 
That is quite odd. A photo taken in 1954 is out of copyright now, but a photo taken by the same photographer in 1956 (perhaps at ages 14 and 16, if the photographer was born in 1940) could potentially remain in copyright until 2090 assuming a life span of three score years plus another score for good measure. 
 
That photo would have been a terrific asset for your book. Pity it couldn't be used.
 
John
 
On 15 January 2015 at 17:24, 'John Browning' ceo8@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

The ‘unreasonable’ date of 1955 is correct as it was used to transition us to be in line with the US regime.

I think you will find that copyright for a photo taken from 1956 onwards now extends for a period 70 years after the death of the photographer.

 

Interestingly, for the book ‘Salute to the Hudswells’ we located the only reasonable photo of Hambledon 8 in service at Hambledon Mill here: http://consumer.fairfaxsyndication.com/archive/Alan-Lambert-around-Australia-trip,-2F3XC52TS4_A.html

 

The photo was almost certainly taken in 1954, meaning that the copyright had expired, but the image was held by Fairfax Media.

Fairfax Media should be acknowledged with gratitude for very kindly providing us with a high-resolution image for study purposes. However the quoted (concessional) reproduction fee would have been $132.

Needless to say, we decided not to use the image.

 

John

 

John Browning

Brisbane

Australia

 

 

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Re: Nauru Tramway

John Browning
 

I have been to Nauru more recently.

 

I didn’t see the Thomas Hill locomotive that Rod photographed at Central Workshops but that might be because it could have been on the opposite side of the building.

Otherwise his report and observations were confirmed.

 

On the 3ft gauge on Nauru there were five Clyde 0-6-0DH locos similar to cane locomotives and two later British Thomas Hill 4wDH locos.

 

There had previously been 3ft and 2ft gauge steam locomotives as well as two GE wire electrics.

For more complete details of these and the locomotives on Ocean Island, we’ll have to wait for David Jehan’s forthcoming book on the subject.

 

John

 

John Browning

Brisbane

Australia

 


Re: Rarotonga Tramway

John Dennis
 

Fascinating stuff...

John

On 15 January 2015 at 20:58, Rod Hutchinson rodhutchy@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

Hi John,

The story as I know it is at:
http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/cook02.htm

Regards
Rod Hutchinson
Australia

On Jan 15, 2015 8:55 PM, "John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

They are very interesting photos, Rod. I wasn't expecting to see a genuine steam loco.  

John

On 15 January 2015 at 20:49, Rod Hutchinson rodhutchy@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

I visited the Cook Islands in Nov 2012 and found a privately built railway located on the island of Rarotonga.  Planned as a tourist railway it has fallen into disrepair and has only 100m of track.

Some pictures:
https://plus.google.com/photos/114407457222550456145/albums/5816717857322070961?banner=pwa

Regards
Rod Hutchinson
Australia




Re: Rarotonga Tramway

Rod Hutchinson
 

Hi John,

The story as I know it is at:
http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/cook02.htm

Regards
Rod Hutchinson
Australia

On Jan 15, 2015 8:55 PM, "John Dennis jdennis412@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

They are very interesting photos, Rod. I wasn't expecting to see a genuine steam loco.  

John

On 15 January 2015 at 20:49, Rod Hutchinson rodhutchy@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

I visited the Cook Islands in Nov 2012 and found a privately built railway located on the island of Rarotonga.  Planned as a tourist railway it has fallen into disrepair and has only 100m of track.

Some pictures:
https://plus.google.com/photos/114407457222550456145/albums/5816717857322070961?banner=pwa

Regards
Rod Hutchinson
Australia



Re: Rarotonga Tramway

John Dennis
 

They are very interesting photos, Rod. I wasn't expecting to see a genuine steam loco.  

John

On 15 January 2015 at 20:49, Rod Hutchinson rodhutchy@... [LRRSA] <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

I visited the Cook Islands in Nov 2012 and found a privately built railway located on the island of Rarotonga.  Planned as a tourist railway it has fallen into disrepair and has only 100m of track.

Some pictures:
https://plus.google.com/photos/114407457222550456145/albums/5816717857322070961?banner=pwa

Regards
Rod Hutchinson
Australia



Rarotonga Tramway

Rod Hutchinson
 

I visited the Cook Islands in Nov 2012 and found a privately built railway located on the island of Rarotonga.  Planned as a tourist railway it has fallen into disrepair and has only 100m of track.

Some pictures:
https://plus.google.com/photos/114407457222550456145/albums/5816717857322070961?banner=pwa

Regards
Rod Hutchinson
Australia


Re: Nauru Tramway

Rod Hutchinson
 

I visited Nauru in June 2012. and can confirm the railway is closed.  The main line from the quarry to the processing plant is now a road.  I found one loco at the quarry and an O&K on a plinth the Nauru Phosphate's offices near the docks.

There are lot of drop side gondolas tipped over along the rod and a few V-tippers in the bush.

My photos may be found at:
https://plus.google.com/photos/114407457222550456145/albums/5752233326871029041?banner=pwa

Regards
Rod Hutchinson
Australia

On Jan 15, 2015 8:17 PM, "'Brian' rallim56@... [LRRSA]" <LRRSA@...> wrote:
 

Can anyone tell me what happened to the tramway on Nauru, I have found some photos of some of the wagons laying on there sides abandoned, I was wondering what happened to the loco’s and how many loco’s did they actually have?
 
Brian
Qld. Aust.
 


Re: Ease my Mind : a VRNG 2-6-2 is called an...

Frank Stamford
 

Hello Brian,

On 15/01/2015 8:14 PM, 'Brian' rallim56@... [LRRSA] wrote:
 

Frank,
In reading your explanation, with regard to the use of a different height letter, it could be what I read was someone’s misunderstanding and taking the smaller ‘N’ to have been lower case.
 
Brian
Qld. Aust.

Yes, that would right.

Regards,

Frank
 
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Ease my Mind : a VRNG 2-6-2 is called an...
 



Hello Brian,

On 15/01/2015 6:19 PM, 'Brian' rallim56@... [LRRSA] wrote:
 
I forget where I read it, but as best I recall at one time VR used a lower case ‘n’ to distinguish narrow gauge stock from the broad gauge, eg: nA.
But at a later time, the number and class system was changed and a upper case N was then used, eg: “NQR’
 
Brian
Qld. Aust.

Not everything that has been written about VR narrow gauge is accurate.

I have never seen any evidence, photographic, diagramatic, or in text, to show that the VR ever used a lower case N. It would have been out of character for them to do so.

Regards,

Frank
 

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