Date   

Re: Dookie to KatamatiteTramway

Frank Stamford
 

The Dookie - Katamatite Tramway was built by the Yarrawonga Shire and
opened about the same time as the Koondrook tramway - circa 1889.
However, unlike the Koondrook tramway, it did not remain in Shire
ownership for very long, and was taken over by the VR in December
1892. Hence it did not have time to become eccentric and therefore
very interesting, unlike the Koondrook tramway.

Ex VR loco No.12 was the only loco the Shire owned. It was built as a
2-2-2, but rebuilt by the VR as a 2-4-0 before it came to the
Katamatite tramway.

Regards,

Frank

--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "Bill Hanks" <bhanks@r...> wrote:

A lot of information is coming out of the woodwork about the Kerang to
Koondrook tramway.

There was another similar shire tramway.

I'm currently reviewing the book Visions of the Victorian Railways by
Gerald Dee. It talks about VR loco No 12 of 1859 being sold to the
Yarrawonga Shire in 1890 for use on the Dookie to Katamatite Tramway and
bought back by the VR in 1893 becoming No 528.

Can anyone enlighten us further about this shire tramway operation?



Regards,

Bill Hanks



________________________________

From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au] On
Behalf Of Phil Rickard
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 10:53 PM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Koondrook Tramway



--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "Alf Atkin" <pollux1au@h...> wrote:

Couple more questions:

1. What method of safeworking was used?

2. Was there any intermediate sidings? I know that there were at
least three wayside stations.

3. Did the tramway have its own sidings at Kerang or did it use the
VR sidings?

Alf
I have found a copy of both the 1948 and 1971 Bulletin articles,
together with one from Newsrail Aug 1983. In addition to Frank's
detailed response of the 22nd the following may be of interest:

1. The only signal was a VR Home signal protecting Kerang yard. (The
"one engine in steam" being the norm.)

2. In 1948 or thereabouts, Koondrook Stock Yards had a dead-end,
converted to a loop, at some stage. Gannawarra "seems" to have had a
siding but it had gone, Hinkson's had a loop siding, as did Yeoburn.
On the outskirts of Kerang four private sidings had connections to the
tramway, all being recent additions. It is not stated which
industries they served.

3. At Kerang, the shire trains used the VR yard and station. They had
no yard of their own. Koondrook was the tramway headquarters and any
examination of the line needs to be looked at with Koondrook as the
focus. Traffic came from up and down the river, from over the River
via Barham and was shipped out on the tramway. Kerang was just the
exchange point with the VR.

Re ex VR No.34; ex G&M "Titania" -
Readers may wish to view
http://www.museum.vic.gov.au/railways/image.aspx?ID=878
for a picture of No.34 at the Kerang Waterworks tower in Wellington St
Kerang. The brick water tower (which is still standing) is situated
over one km from the railway, on the west side of town. The Koondrook
tram went to the east of Kerang.
The Bulletin No.132 of Oct 1948 says the loco was used at the
waterworks, presumably for pumping. Can anyone venture how it was
transported from Kerang station, a mile away, to the water tower, and
how long was it used there. Was it only used at the waterworks
following the arrival of "Federal" in 1895? Comments invited.

An interesting article on the Koondrook-Barham bridge may be found on
the John Monash web site at
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aholgate/jm/nonrcbrs/koondrook_maj.html
The role of the tram to carry the materials is covered as Monash was
concerned that it might not be up to the task, and correspondence with
Rattray, the Shire's tramway manager resulted.

The role of the bridge in channeling trade towards Barham and
Koondrook and hence over the tramway is briefly examined.

Koondrook yard. Bulletin 132 has a sketch of the interesting track
layout at Koondrook. Does anyone have a copy of Weston Langford's
sketch that would be in his station diagram book pub by ARHS Vic a few
years back? I'd like to compare the two. (Does anyone have a VR
station diagram of Koondrook - just hoping . . )

cheers Phil







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Newcastle Trams

Eddie Oliver <eoliver@...>
 

Iain Stuart wrote:
Is there a standard reference work on the steam and electric tramways of
Newcastle and suburbs?
Tramways of Newcastle by Keenan/McCarthy/Wilson, Transit Press 1999.


Newcastle Trams

Iain
 

Is there a standard reference work on the steam and electric tramways of
Newcastle and suburbs?



I tried a search on Libraries Australia without any result.



I would be grateful if anyone can point me in the right direction especially
to sources of plans of tramway infrastructure.



yours



Dr Iain Stuart

JCIS Consultants



P.O. Box 2397

Burwood North



ph/fx (02) 97010191



HYPERLINK "mailto:iain@jcis.net.au"iain@jcis.net.au

HYPERLINK "mailto:iain_stuart@optusnet.com.au"iain_stuart@optusnet.com.au



Check out the website at HYPERLINK "http://www.jcis.net.au"www.jcis.net.au






--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.408 / Virus Database: 268.13.11/497 - Release Date: 25/10/2006


Dookie to KatamatiteTramway

bll_hnks
 

A lot of information is coming out of the woodwork about the Kerang to
Koondrook tramway.

There was another similar shire tramway.

I'm currently reviewing the book Visions of the Victorian Railways by
Gerald Dee. It talks about VR loco No 12 of 1859 being sold to the
Yarrawonga Shire in 1890 for use on the Dookie to Katamatite Tramway and
bought back by the VR in 1893 becoming No 528.

Can anyone enlighten us further about this shire tramway operation?



Regards,

Bill Hanks



________________________________

From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au] On
Behalf Of Phil Rickard
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 10:53 PM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Koondrook Tramway



--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "Alf Atkin" <pollux1au@h...> wrote:

Couple more questions:

1. What method of safeworking was used?

2. Was there any intermediate sidings? I know that there were at
least three wayside stations.

3. Did the tramway have its own sidings at Kerang or did it use the
VR sidings?

Alf
I have found a copy of both the 1948 and 1971 Bulletin articles,
together with one from Newsrail Aug 1983. In addition to Frank's
detailed response of the 22nd the following may be of interest:

1. The only signal was a VR Home signal protecting Kerang yard. (The
"one engine in steam" being the norm.)

2. In 1948 or thereabouts, Koondrook Stock Yards had a dead-end,
converted to a loop, at some stage. Gannawarra "seems" to have had a
siding but it had gone, Hinkson's had a loop siding, as did Yeoburn.
On the outskirts of Kerang four private sidings had connections to the
tramway, all being recent additions. It is not stated which
industries they served.

3. At Kerang, the shire trains used the VR yard and station. They had
no yard of their own. Koondrook was the tramway headquarters and any
examination of the line needs to be looked at with Koondrook as the
focus. Traffic came from up and down the river, from over the River
via Barham and was shipped out on the tramway. Kerang was just the
exchange point with the VR.

Re ex VR No.34; ex G&M "Titania" -
Readers may wish to view
http://www.museum.vic.gov.au/railways/image.aspx?ID=878
for a picture of No.34 at the Kerang Waterworks tower in Wellington St
Kerang. The brick water tower (which is still standing) is situated
over one km from the railway, on the west side of town. The Koondrook
tram went to the east of Kerang.
The Bulletin No.132 of Oct 1948 says the loco was used at the
waterworks, presumably for pumping. Can anyone venture how it was
transported from Kerang station, a mile away, to the water tower, and
how long was it used there. Was it only used at the waterworks
following the arrival of "Federal" in 1895? Comments invited.

An interesting article on the Koondrook-Barham bridge may be found on
the John Monash web site at
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aholgate/jm/nonrcbrs/koondrook_maj.html
The role of the tram to carry the materials is covered as Monash was
concerned that it might not be up to the task, and correspondence with
Rattray, the Shire's tramway manager resulted.

The role of the bridge in channeling trade towards Barham and
Koondrook and hence over the tramway is briefly examined.

Koondrook yard. Bulletin 132 has a sketch of the interesting track
layout at Koondrook. Does anyone have a copy of Weston Langford's
sketch that would be in his station diagram book pub by ARHS Vic a few
years back? I'd like to compare the two. (Does anyone have a VR
station diagram of Koondrook - just hoping . . )

cheers Phil


Re: Koondrook Tramway

Phil Rickard <chy_gwel_an_meneth@...>
 

--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "Alf Atkin" <pollux1au@h...> wrote:

Couple more questions:

1. What method of safeworking was used?

2. Was there any intermediate sidings? I know that there were at
least three wayside stations.

3. Did the tramway have its own sidings at Kerang or did it use the
VR sidings?

Alf
I have found a copy of both the 1948 and 1971 Bulletin articles,
together with one from Newsrail Aug 1983. In addition to Frank's
detailed response of the 22nd the following may be of interest:

1. The only signal was a VR Home signal protecting Kerang yard. (The
"one engine in steam" being the norm.)

2. In 1948 or thereabouts, Koondrook Stock Yards had a dead-end,
converted to a loop, at some stage. Gannawarra "seems" to have had a
siding but it had gone, Hinkson's had a loop siding, as did Yeoburn.
On the outskirts of Kerang four private sidings had connections to the
tramway, all being recent additions. It is not stated which
industries they served.

3. At Kerang, the shire trains used the VR yard and station. They had
no yard of their own. Koondrook was the tramway headquarters and any
examination of the line needs to be looked at with Koondrook as the
focus. Traffic came from up and down the river, from over the River
via Barham and was shipped out on the tramway. Kerang was just the
exchange point with the VR.

Re ex VR No.34; ex G&M "Titania" -
Readers may wish to view
http://www.museum.vic.gov.au/railways/image.aspx?ID=878
for a picture of No.34 at the Kerang Waterworks tower in Wellington St
Kerang. The brick water tower (which is still standing) is situated
over one km from the railway, on the west side of town. The Koondrook
tram went to the east of Kerang.
The Bulletin No.132 of Oct 1948 says the loco was used at the
waterworks, presumably for pumping. Can anyone venture how it was
transported from Kerang station, a mile away, to the water tower, and
how long was it used there. Was it only used at the waterworks
following the arrival of "Federal" in 1895? Comments invited.

An interesting article on the Koondrook-Barham bridge may be found on
the John Monash web site at
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aholgate/jm/nonrcbrs/koondrook_maj.html
The role of the tram to carry the materials is covered as Monash was
concerned that it might not be up to the task, and correspondence with
Rattray, the Shire's tramway manager resulted.

The role of the bridge in channeling trade towards Barham and
Koondrook and hence over the tramway is briefly examined.

Koondrook yard. Bulletin 132 has a sketch of the interesting track
layout at Koondrook. Does anyone have a copy of Weston Langford's
sketch that would be in his station diagram book pub by ARHS Vic a few
years back? I'd like to compare the two. (Does anyone have a VR
station diagram of Koondrook - just hoping . . )

cheers Phil


Re: Campbelltown Steam & Machinery Museum Open Day

Toot222
 

Hi
yes sure did had a great day, if you missed it it's on again May 2007.
It's always a great show things you don't normally see, they had a tank
running around.
Vintage cars, old machinery going it's really a great day.
Toot

On 10/25/06, halfpilotstaff <vipsafaripacer@bigpond.com> wrote:

Hi all,

This is my first post to the group!

Last week the October Open Day weekend for the Campbelltown Steam &
Machinery Museum was advertised through this group. I was lucky enough
to be in the area on Saturday afternoon and went for a looksee.

Did anyone else?

Cheerz

halfpilotstaff



Rubicon Tramway

Steamfreak <steamfreak@...>
 

Hi,
I have posted a few pics of the SEC Tramway near Rubicon on my website:

http://pics.steamfreak.com

They are under "Other Railways" - I hope they are of interest.

Trevor.


Campbelltown Steam & Machinery Museum Open Day

halfpilotstaff <vipsafaripacer@...>
 

Hi all,

This is my first post to the group!

Last week the October Open Day weekend for the Campbelltown Steam &
Machinery Museum was advertised through this group. I was lucky enough
to be in the area on Saturday afternoon and went for a looksee.

Did anyone else?

Cheerz

halfpilotstaff


Re: Bangor and the WHR

B.Rumary
 

Rfmckillop wrote:

What will appeal to members of this group is the fact that the
stables house the only museum in Britain devoted to industrial
railways.
I'm afraid this is just not true - there are a lot of museums devoted
to industrial railways in the UK, although Penrhyn is probably the only
one housed totally indoors. Other industrial railway museums are the
Leighton Buzzard Light Railway, Tanfield, Rutland Ironstone Museum,
Amberley, Foxfield, etc.

Brian Rumary, England

www.rumary.co.uk


Koondrook Tramway

Bill Russell
 

Those who have access to Victorian 1:25000 maps will find most of the
tramway on the following maps: T7626-1-2, T7726-4-3 and T7726-4-2.

Regards,


Bill Russell


Re: Unknown industrial locos

Phil Rickard <chy_gwel_an_meneth@...>
 

--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "John Browning" <ceo8@i...> wrote:


This photo is a gem.

Can anyone confirm that it is the Thiess logo displayed below the
bulder's plates.?

John

John Browning
Rockhampton

A State Electricity Commission photo on the Museum of Victoria
website shows two identical locomotives in the SECV Central
Metropolitan Store at Brooklyn – no date, but both looking very clean.
See: http://flyaqis.museum.vic.gov.au/paimages/mm/957/9577.htm

Re John 's query as to whether the colourful logo under the builders
plate is Theiss's logo – I suspect yes. Compare with National
Archives photo at -
http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/PhotoSearchItemDetail.asp?
M=0&B=6849060

for similar loco at a Snowy Mountains work's site with a caption that
idicates it is a Theiss operation. Note logo on back of loco cab.
Looks the same to me – seems to be a map of Australia with something
upon it.

cheers Phil


Re: Koondrook Tramway - Sentinel loco

Frank Stamford
 

There was one other Sentinel steam loco in Australia. It was also 5 ft
3 in gauge and owned and operated by the South Australian Gas Company
at Brompton, an Adelaide suburb.

"Light Railways" No.146 has four pages on this locomotive, including a
technical description of the design and including a drawing showing
the boiler, engine and transmission arrangements.

The SA Gas Co. loco and the Koondrook loco appear to have been
practically identical.

The SA Gas Gas Co. unit was built in 1926, builder's number 6638.

Regards,

Frank


--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, Michael <thirtyinchfan@p...> wrote:

Frank Stamford wrote:
When it arrived it attracted quite a lot of attention because it
was somewhat novel.
It certainly would have been novel - am I right in assuming it was the
only Sentinel loco in Australia? I know that there were several
railcars.

cheers

Nichael


Re: Koondrook Tramway - Sentinel loco

Michael J
 

Frank Stamford wrote:
When it arrived it attracted quite a lot of attention because it
was somewhat novel.
It certainly would have been novel - am I right in assuming it was the only Sentinel loco in Australia? I know that there were several railcars.

cheers

Nichael


Re: Denison Canal construction

Phil Rickard <chy_gwel_an_meneth@...>
 

--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "John Browning" <ceo8@i...> wrote:

"Walkabout" [magazine] for August 1958 has an illustrated article on
the Tasmanian Denison Canal. Can anyone shed any light on the canal's
construction or the locomotive used?

This would be it?

Krauss 4526 1901 610mm gauge 0-4-0WT Class IVzq OC
ordered by Diercks & Co., Melbourne
Hendrickson & Knutson (contractors), East Neck Canal construction,
Dunalley, Tas., 1902; out of use 1904
Sandfly Colliery Co. Ltd., Tas., 1906

John Browning
Thanks John, Yes, I knew someone with a better filing system than
mine would know the answer. Unfortunately the Tasmanian Marine Dept
didn't use any tramways when they re-dredged the canal last year.

I see the Archives Office of Tasmania has a number of documents
relating to the Denison canal.

cheers Phil


Re: Malcolm Moore loco

John Browning
 

This loco is very sophisticated compared to a TACL. I'm wondering if
it is built under licence from a UK builder. It looks like a Ruston?
This isn't Ruston technology. Indeed the jackshaft driving onto the centre of
the connecting rod is not a very common feature.

Malcolm Moore bought in "power packs" for the 0-6-0DM mining locos for AI&S
from Drewry in the UK. I take this to mean engine and transmission. Something
similar may have happened with these, but I haven't any evidence. What I do
know is that the necessary components and materials were probably very hard to
obtain in a timely fashion in that time of post-war shortages.

John


Re: Koondrook Tramway - Sentinel loco

Frank Stamford
 

The 1928 date is much more likely than the 1926 date.

When I was researching this line I found a reference to its arrival at Koondrook in the local paper. I am almost certain the year was 1930, and it was certainly later than 1926. The "Border Journal Tramway Souvenir 1989" says 1929. When it arrived it attracted quite a lot of attention because it was somewhat novel.

All the early articles in the ARHS Bulletin gave the arrival date of this as 1926, without giving any details of the source. I assumed the loco had 1926 on its builder's plate as the only explanation for this date.

I guess its possible it could have been built for an Irish (or even Brazillian) customer and the sale fell through, or it was rebuilt from a standard-gauge unit. I presume regauging one of these would not be very difficult.

Regards,

Frank

At 10:23 AM 22/10/2006, you wrote:

Sentinel - 4wTG A chain coupled vertical boiler loco with a
high-pressure boiler. Built in the UK in 1926 and purchased by the
Shire in 1929 or 1930.
According to the Sentinel list in Abbot's book "Vertival Boiler
Locomotives", Sentinel 7566 for the Kerang-Koondrook Tramway was built
in 1928. This would make a 1929 arrival as new reasonable.

The gauge would suggest the chances of it being built for elsewhere
would be limited.

Comments?

John





Re: Unknown industrial locos

Steamfreak <steamfreak@...>
 

Hi John,

Thanks for the extensive information. I have since scanned more slides from
that box, and these include:
- Murray 1 Power Station under construction - view from the present day
lookout opposite the power station
- A view looking down the pipeline site towards the power station

This second slide would have been taken from the adit of the Snowy Geehi
Tunnel so it is quite possible that the pic of the locos was taken at the
same place. The slides are all dated October 1963. So your info would be
right on the money.

Cheers,
Trevor.

-----Original Message-----
From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
[mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of John Browning
Sent: Sunday, 22 October 2006 8:22 AM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [LRRSA] Unknown industrial locos


This photo is a gem.

It shows two Malcolm Moore 3ft gauge 0-4-0DM locos built in
1949 for the Kiewa Scheme of the Victorian State Electricity
Commission. This was a hydro-electric scheme in north-eastern
Victoria.

The locos look fresh and newly arrived on site, not as if
they had been working hard on a tunnelling scheme, and the
Snowy Moutains Scheme looks likely. My interpretation of the
vegetation is that it is not north Queensland, so one other
(but unlikely) possibility can be dismissed.

In 1960-1, two such locos were advertised for sale in Sydney
by brokers Transport & Industrial Index (Aust.) Pty Ltd.

In 1963, these were acquired by Thiess Brothers, for a Snowy
Mountains Scheme contract. I believe this was for the
Snowy-Geehi Tunnel (Geehi
Section) - 1962-6 (8.8 km). As Thiess seem to have had both
3ft and 3ft 6ins equipment in use, it is not completely clear
how the work was organised and there may have been smaller
separate tunnelling sections.

The two locos converned were builder's numbers 23 & 27.

Can anyone confirm that it is the Thiess logo displayed below
the bulder's plates.

Any more details would be gratefully received, as would the
posting of any similar mystery phtographs.

Thanks, Trevor, for this one.

John

John Browning
Rockhampton





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Malcolm Moore loco

John Peterson
 

Hello all

I have placed a Malcolm Moore Ad from the 50's in the files. Could the
previous photo be added so it doesn't get lost over time? And any
other additions.

This loco is very sophisticated compared to a TACL. I'm wondering if
it is built under licence from a UK builder. It looks like a Ruston?

Chris Hart has a preserved 2' gauge ex CSR Malcolm Moore which I'm
wondering might be the 2' version of the same type of loco.

Cheers
John


Re: Denison Canal construction

John Browning
 

"Walkabout" [magazine] for August 1958 has an illustrated article on
the Tasmanian Denison Canal. Can anyone shed any light on the canal's
construction or the locomotive used?

This would be it?

Krauss 4526 1901 610mm gauge 0-4-0WT Class IVzq OC
ordered by Diercks & Co., Melbourne
Hendrickson & Knutson (contractors), East Neck Canal construction,
Dunalley, Tas., 1902; out of use 1904
Sandfly Colliery Co. Ltd., Tas., 1906

John

John Browning


Re: Koondrook Tramway

John Browning
 

Sentinel - 4wTG A chain coupled vertical boiler loco with a
high-pressure boiler. Built in the UK in 1926 and purchased by the
Shire in 1929 or 1930.
According to the Sentinel list in Abbot's book "Vertival Boiler
Locomotives", Sentinel 7566 for the Kerang-Koondrook Tramway was built
in 1928. This would make a 1929 arrival as new reasonable.

The gauge would suggest the chances of it being built for elsewhere
would be limited.

Comments?

John

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