Date   

Re: Kuridala Shay

rthorne475
 

Clearly a typo, Chris. PNG is Papua New Guinea.

New Guinea Copper Mines Ltd. 3' 6"gauge line from Bootless Bay to Dubuna. Construction commenced 1918, completed 1921. Closed 1926.

Locos:

'POLYGON' [Andrew Barclay 1544/1918] 0-6-0Toc ex BHAS Port Pirie, South Australia

- [Lima 2478/1911] 4w+4wTG A class Shay ex Hampden Cloncurry Mines Ltd, Kuridala, Qld. (New to Lahey Bros., Canungra, Qld.)

Regards,

Richard Horne



________________________________
From: Chris Stratton <gm4201@optusnet.com.au>
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Sent: Saturday, 10 January, 2009 12:18:57
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] Kuridala Shay


Where is PNQ?

Regards,
CS

-----Original Message-----
From: LRRSA@yahoogroups. com.au [mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups. com.au] On Behalf
Of Dick Holland
Sent: Saturday, 10 January 2009 9:45 PM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups. com.au
Subject: [LRRSA] Kuridala Shay

I've just received the book 'Copper at the 'Curry'. This book shows a two
truck 3'6" Shay loco at Kuridala.

It mentions that this locomotive was subsequently sold to the Bootless Bay
Tramway, PNQ in 1924.

Excuse my ignorance aficionados, but where was this and what did it do?

Dick Holland
Broken Hill.


Re: Kuridala Shay

Christopher Hart
 

PNQ should be PNG (Papua and New Guinea) which is where Bootless Bay is.
There is an article on the line in Light Railways 47. Bootless Bay is just
east of Port Moresby, the line was six and a half miles in length and used
to transport copper ore to a smelter near the bay,
Chris Hart
2009/1/10 Chris Stratton gm4201@optusnet.com.au

_._,___


Re: Kuridala Shay

Chris Stratton
 

Where is PNQ?

Regards,
CS

-----Original Message-----
From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf
Of Dick Holland
Sent: Saturday, 10 January 2009 9:45 PM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [LRRSA] Kuridala Shay

I've just received the book 'Copper at the 'Curry'. This book shows a two
truck 3'6" Shay loco at Kuridala.

It mentions that this locomotive was subsequently sold to the Bootless Bay
Tramway, PNQ in 1924.

Excuse my ignorance aficionados, but where was this and what did it do?

Dick Holland
Broken Hill.


Kuridala Shay

dickwho1
 

I've just received the book 'Copper at the 'Curry'. This book shows a two truck 3'6" Shay loco at Kuridala.

It mentions that this locomotive was subsequently sold to the Bootless Bay Tramway, PNQ in 1924.

Excuse my ignorance aficionados, but where was this and what did it do?

Dick Holland
Broken Hill.


Mark Fry's NGDU article

Murray Scholz
 

Mark Fry asked me to pass this message on to the group.

Mark Fry wishes to advise that due to unforeseen circumstances some of
the plans and related information is incorrect or missing as are the
correct photo captions and photo credits in Part 4 of Amongst The Last
Of Their Breed found in issue 31 of Narrow Gauge Down Under. As a
result of this Part 4 will be rerun with the correct information in
issue 32.

Regards

Murray Scholz


Regnans Tramway - Saw Mill [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Rod Hutchinson <r.hutchinson@...>
 

Hi all,

I have been building a small sawmill to go on my HOn30 railroad/diorama
"Regnans Tramway". The sawmill is based on Drain's sawmill located in
Victoria, Australia. It is made from parts of the Keystone Danby Saw
Mill, scratch timber stuff, etches & castings. The object at the bottom
of the first two pictures is scratch built lagged pipe I.E. Twine
wrapped around wire and glued with Pliobond.


I am guided by two timber milling, steam engine and boiler enthusiasts;
Peter Evans author of "Rails To Rubicon" http://www.peterevans.com.au/
<http://www.peterevans.com.au/> and John Dimitrievich A.K.A. "Professor
Klyzlr".



Pictures maybe found at:

http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24362
<http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24362>



Regards

Rod Hutchinson

Mooroolbark, Australia


Re: Chimney height and horsepower of engines

Peter Evans
 

--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, Philip Hammon <philip.hammon@...>
wrote:
My high school physics says 1 HP == 33,ooo ft. lb. per
minute. Is steam horsepower different?
You are of course quite correct. Put it down to a seniors moment at
the end of a hard day at the mine ...

Cheers,
PeterE.


Re: Former VRNG Whitfield loco shed heritage status? Moyhu Nu bodies update.

Phil Rickard <chy_gwel_an_meneth@...>
 

--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "glenn_howe" <glenn_howe@...> wrote:

Hi All,

Passing through Whitfield a few months ago & noticed the old loco
shed looked a bit neglected (more so than usual); does anyone know if
it has any official heritage status?


Happy New Year to All!

I was in Whitfield four weeks ago and noticed "they" had very recently
removed a number of large gum trees from around the shed. Whether this
will help "preserve" it or open it up to the next big storm is a moot
point.
I have posted four pics taken on 5 Dev 08 in the Photos, under album
called "Phil's pics".

cheers Phil


Re: Chimney height and horsepower of engines

PH
 

Dear Jeff and Peter



Thank you very much for that, our chimney is about 50 feet
high, and 6 ft square at the top.

If somebody can tell me how to do it, I can post the photo
on the LRRSA site, it is a hi-res scan of 6.2 meg.

I'm sure that those tables will be of help.



My high school physics says 1 HP == 33,ooo ft. lb. per
minute. Is steam horsepower different?



Philip Hammon
Managing Director
Scenic World, Blue Mountains
Cnr Violet Street & Cliff Drive
Katoomba Australia NSW 2780
PO Box 1042 Katoomba NSW 2780
T +61 (0) 2 47 800 200
F +61 (0) 2 47 825 675
Direct Ext +61 (0) 2 47 800 220
www.scenicworld.com.au <http://www.scenicworld.com.au/>

















________________________________

From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au] On
Behalf Of Jeff Mullier
Sent: Thursday, 1 January 2009 8:47 PM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Chimney height and horsepower of engines



G'day All,

Some information that may be of use.

Volume 2 of the interesting "The Mechanical Engineering of Collieries"
T.Campbell Futers, 1908 lists 2 formulae for calculating chimney height.

d=H(0.0146 -7.66/T) d=draught in inches of water gauge, H=height of
chimney above firegrate level in feet, T=absolute temperature

A=Q/16x square root of H where A=area of chimney top in sq feet,
Q=pounds of coal consumed per hour, height of chimney in feet above fire
grate level

In the section on chimneys in vol.2 of "Machinery's Encyclopaedia" 1917,
gives a extensive table of chimney dia vs. height & commercial
horsepower which is too big to type out but I can scan & put in the
files section if so whished.

"The Steam Boiler Yearbook and Manual" 1943, has rather interesting
table as well giving chimney dimensions in relation to Cornish,
Lancashire & tubular boiler diameter/grate area to chimney
diameter/height. Again this is too big to type out but I could scan it &
put it in the files section if so whished.

Regards
Jeff Mullier

----- Original Message -----
From: Iain Stuart
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au <mailto:LRRSA%40yahoogroups.com.au>
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:13 PM
Subject: [LRRSA] Chimney height and horsepower of engines

This is an interesting question which I have been thinking about in
connection with brickworks. The purpose of a chimney is to create
ventilation so while one would expect it's height to relate to
horsepower
surely in reality it relates to the nature of the firebox and the draft.
There must be a formula for all this in the technical literature - I was
wondering whether Manning's formula for water flow in pipes would in
principal be of some use.

My 10 cents worth

Dr Iain Stuart

Partner

JCIS Consultants

ABN 15 673 291 522

PO Box 2397

Burwood North

NSW 2134

Ph/Fax (02) 9701 0191

(0413) 380116

<mailto:info@jcis.net.au <mailto:info%40jcis.net.au> > info@jcis.net.au
<mailto:info%40jcis.net.au>

Our website is www.jcis.net.au


Mill engines : Model guided by Proto Re: Pipes in sawmills

Peter Evans
 

Gentlemen,

The safety valve is a separate fitting from the steam stop valve on
the dome, and is usually located further along the boiler on a
separate mounting. Note that there should always be two safety
valves. Weight and lever is now illegal and spring valves must be
used, but either type would be suitable for your sawmill. I have
seen one of each on a dual fitting on boilers in the bush.

Note that gate valves are seldom used with steam. This is because
after you close them they tend to cool and contract and are
difficult to open again. A globe valve is always preferred.

Rod, whatever you do with the engine you need to get two cylinders a
scale eight-inches in internal diameter. If you can marry two
engines up to do this, well and good - just remember to set the
cranks at ninety degrees as you would with a locomotive, not 180
degrees.

Engine horsepower can be roughly calculated by the PLAN formula -
Horsepower equals Pressure x Length of stroke x Area of piston x
number of Strokes (back and forth) per minute. You do need to get
the units right so that you end up with foot-pounds per hour. 55,000
of these equials one horsespower (of a particular horse belonging to
James Watt).

Cheers,
PeterE.


Mill engines : Model guided by Proto Re: Pipes in sawmills

Professor Klyzlr <johnd@...>
 

Dear Rod,

It's hard to see on the website, but the mill on Broughton Vale
Tramway was <based> out of a Keystone Danby kit, and the engine was
the first item that was "replaced" with something more "in keeping"
with aussie mill technique...

Anton's recent released a "twin cylinder" version of their long-
standing "single vertical cylinder engine" unit. In HO, this would
be "light, but not <under> powered" for a single circular or smaller
dual-circular mill...

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr



--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "Rod Hutchinson" <r.hutchinson@...>
wrote:

John & Peter,

Thanks for the comments. Looking at all images it looks like my
engine need to be rather large. Would it be fair to convert 16 HP
single piston vertical engine into something that is taller, or
similar, height to an average male?

PS: I have the Keystone Danby Sawmill kit in HO scale, The actual
engine appears to me to be a bit of a pipsqueak.

Regards
Rod Hutchinson
Melbourne, Australia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Steam Pipes in sawmills [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

John Dimitrievich <johnd@...>
 

Dear Rod,



Boiler > Steam dome > safety valve > piping > throttle valve > piping >
engine/cylinders > vent to atmosphere.



This is based on analysis of proto-pics,

Video of various mills "of the period" from Tas, Vic, and NSW,

Talking to our fave winch and sawmill tech :-),

And an understanding of the underfired multitube boiler design commonly
used in the Vic bush for powering sawmills...



Talk Soon,



Happy Modelling,

Aim to Improve,

Prof Klyzlr


Re: Steam Pipes in sawmills [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Rod Hutchinson <r.hutchinson@...>
 

John & Peter,

Thanks for the comments. Looking at all images it looks like my engine need to be rather large. Would it be fair to convert 16 HP single piston vertical engine into something that is taller, or similar, height to an average male?

PS: I have the Keystone Danby Sawmill kit in HO scale, The actual engine appears to me to be a bit of a pipsqueak.

Regards
Rod Hutchinson
Melbourne, Australia


Re: Steam Pipes in sawmills

John Garaty
 

Hi Rod,
I have added 2 new photos that show the boiler on display at the
Aleaxandra Timber Tramway Museum. This is of a domeless type boiler
but the steam offtakes can be clearly seen.

To answer your questions for a boiler with a dome, steam would
probably be taken off from the dome unless there was a steam
manifold available. On the pipework adjacent to the boiler would be
the main isolating valve (gate valve usually). There would also be a
steam control valve at the engine.

I have also added 2 photos to the front of the Campbelltown Steam
Museum album showing their large single-cylinder vertical engine on
display. Check out the Top End photo for the steam end plumbing.
This unit vented to atmosphere

I hope that this helps,
Happy New Year and Regards,
John Garaty
Unanderra in oz



--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "Rod Hutchinson" <r.hutchinson@...>
wrote:

A couple of questions from a railway modeller, not a railway
historian.

I am building a model of a sawmill very loosely based in Drain's
mill.
I have a horizontal boiler located on brick/stone (resin casting)
providing steam to a vertical steam engine (Uneek Model Products
white
metal kit).

I want to locate appropriate pipe work on the model.

Where does the steam pipe leave the boiler to go to the engine; is
it
from the steam dome cast into the model
Where do I vent the exhaust from the engine; is it back to the
smoke box
on the boiler or atmosphere?

Regards
Rod Hutchinson
Mooroolbark, Australia


Re: Steam Pipes in sawmills [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

Peter Evans
 

Hi Rod,



This would need to be a large vertical engine to be appropriate. From the
early 1930s the Forests Commission of Victoria stipulated in its sawmilling
licences a minimum of 16 nominal horsepower for the mill engine. This
translates to cylinder diameter - either twin 8-inch cylinders or a single
16-inch single. The latter would have a stroke of about two feet and would
normally be a horizontal engine. If a twin, it would usually be a portable
engine. The only type of vertical engine large enough and compact enough to
fit under the mill roof would be a Bellis & Morcom or similar-make enclosed
high-speed engine. There is a good example in the park at Erica which came
from the State sawmill there. It was built by Kelly & Lewis and has been
stupidly vandalized by cutting its piston rods through, but it will give you
a good idea of the size of the engine required. We have a similar sized
engine at Alexandra - see



http://www.alexandratramway.org.au/machinery_display/steam_engines_and_pumps
.htm



The boiler you have sounds like an underfired multitubular (Colonial) boiler
which would be right for most Australian sawmills. Note that Drain's mill in
the Cathedral State Park actually had an ex-locomotive boiler - the remains
of the smokebox and front tube plate are still on site.



The advice you have been given about steam lines is correct - but they need
to be lagged (insulated) to keep the steam dry.



The discussion on chimney height has been very constructive. Note that there
are more lies told about boiler horsepower than real estate. There are a
myriad of ways to calculate it and most of them are wildly inaccurate. The
best method is the maximum evaporative rate in pounds per hour, and a bigger
chimney will actually increase the draught and increase the effective boiler
horsepower!



Cheers,

PeterE.



Peter Evans

Production Management, Corporate Writing and Heritage Services

0407 537 837

www.peterevans.com.au <http://www.peterevans.com.au/>

peter@peterevans.com.au



P please consider the environment before printing.
This electronic mail contains information that is privileged and
confidential, intended only for use of the individual(s) or entity named. If
you are not the intended recipient, any dissemination, copying or use of the
information is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission
in error please delete it immediately from your system and inform me by
return email and destroy the original message


Re: Chimney height and horsepower of engines

Jeff Mullier
 

G'day All,

Some information that may be of use.

Volume 2 of the interesting "The Mechanical Engineering of Collieries" T.Campbell Futers, 1908 lists 2 formulae for calculating chimney height.

d=H(0.0146 -7.66/T) d=draught in inches of water gauge, H=height of chimney above firegrate level in feet, T=absolute temperature

A=Q/16x square root of H where A=area of chimney top in sq feet, Q=pounds of coal consumed per hour, height of chimney in feet above fire grate level

In the section on chimneys in vol.2 of "Machinery's Encyclopaedia" 1917, gives a extensive table of chimney dia vs. height & commercial horsepower which is too big to type out but I can scan & put in the files section if so whished.

"The Steam Boiler Yearbook and Manual" 1943, has rather interesting table as well giving chimney dimensions in relation to Cornish, Lancashire & tubular boiler diameter/grate area to chimney diameter/height. Again this is too big to type out but I could scan it & put it in the files section if so whished.

Regards
Jeff Mullier

----- Original Message -----
From: Iain Stuart
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:13 PM
Subject: [LRRSA] Chimney height and horsepower of engines


This is an interesting question which I have been thinking about in
connection with brickworks. The purpose of a chimney is to create
ventilation so while one would expect it's height to relate to horsepower
surely in reality it relates to the nature of the firebox and the draft.
There must be a formula for all this in the technical literature - I was
wondering whether Manning's formula for water flow in pipes would in
principal be of some use.

My 10 cents worth

Dr Iain Stuart

Partner

JCIS Consultants

ABN 15 673 291 522

PO Box 2397

Burwood North

NSW 2134

Ph/Fax (02) 9701 0191

(0413) 380116

<mailto:info@jcis.net.au> info@jcis.net.au

Our website is www.jcis.net.au


Re: McIvor tramway relics

Frank Stamford
 

Hello Glenn,

It's difficult to answer your question briefly and with such short notice.

As far as I know, no one has found any tramway relics to the west of
the "main" line running more or less north to Cherrington. I think it
extremely doubtful that any branches ran to the vicinity of the town
of Redcastle, but I do believe it possible that short lines (maybe
about two miles long) may have run westerly from the "main" line into
farmers' paddocks for short periods whilst timber was cleared from
their blocks.

I think the tour notes you have would be the ones published in 1972,
and there have been some discoveries since then, all to the east of
the "main" line to Cherrington.

I will send you some more information directly off this list.

Hopefully the LRRSA will be publishing a book on this line this year,
if I can prize myself away from other tasks.

Regards,

Frank

--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "glenn_howe" <glenn_howe@...> wrote:


Hi All,

Heading to Bendigo tomorrow & hoping to explore the Redcastle/Moormbool
end of the McIvor line, I've been given a copy of tour notes from 1974
(?)
has anything significant been unearthed along here since that time?

Cheers,

Glenn Howe


Re: Former VRNG Whitfield loco shed heritage status

JH
 

You are definitely wrong about the funding. Heritage listing, either on the Shire Heritage Overlay or on the Victorian Heritage Register, makes a property eligible for heritage grants for conservation and repairs. Have a look at the latest grants for examples of projects and sums granted at http://www.heritage.vic.gov.au/admin/file/content2/c7/List_funded_projects_2008-09.pdf If you think the site has significance and is worth saving then do something about it. I see in the statement of significance for the Puffing Billy Railway (on the VHR, how do they get on in regard to repairs or works?) that the Wangarratta to Whitfield line was the first narrow gauge line opened in Victoria. Does that give it significance in the eyes of light railway enthusiasts? I've always found Heritage Victoria helpful and willing to talk about things of significance and free with their advice.
John

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Percy Larcombe
To: lrrsa@yahoogroups.com.au
Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:58 PM
Subject: RE: [LRRSA] Former VRNG Whitfield loco shed heritage status



You are correct.

As far as I can gather, heritage listing does not give you any money to fix things, it only makes it more difficult for the owner to do any repairs or works on the structure.

Correct me if I am wrong, would heritage listing require approval to do any works that would alter the original structure or materials used. What would be the requirements for putting new tin on the roof, would the newer continuous length light gauge tin be allowed?

Yours

Stephen

To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.auFrom: s.thyer@unimelb.edu.auDate: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 09:45:14 +1100Subject: [LRRSA] Former VRNG Whitfield loco shed heritage status

I had a good look at this shed when in Whitfield in Feb this year. While the shed is still intact, complete with pits and the exhaust flues still inside, the shed did not appear to be in good condition. Nothing appeared to be particularly straight, the roof was starting to bow slightly and the tin, especially on the roof, was in poor condition. I imagine, even in the event of a successful listing, it would cost a fair whack to return to useable condition. From my limited understanding of heritage listings, it does not open the way to a bottomless pit of money with which to restore buildings. Perhaps the only advantage of its location is that Whitfield is slowly becoming a wine mecca. If a nice winery looking for a cellar door, replete with more money than sense, were to take it over, I'll buy a dozen from them in thanks.Stuart Thyer

__________________________________________________________
Net yourself a bargain. Find great deals on eBay.
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Chimney height and horsepower of engines

Iain
 

This is an interesting question which I have been thinking about in
connection with brickworks. The purpose of a chimney is to create
ventilation so while one would expect it's height to relate to horsepower
surely in reality it relates to the nature of the firebox and the draft.
There must be a formula for all this in the technical literature - I was
wondering whether Manning's formula for water flow in pipes would in
principal be of some use.



My 10 cents worth



Dr Iain Stuart

Partner

JCIS Consultants



ABN 15 673 291 522



PO Box 2397

Burwood North

NSW 2134

Ph/Fax (02) 9701 0191

(0413) 380116

<mailto:info@jcis.net.au> info@jcis.net.au

Our website is www.jcis.net.au


McIvor tramway relics

glenn_howe
 

Hi All,

Heading to Bendigo tomorrow & hoping to explore the Redcastle/Moormbool
end of the McIvor line, I've been given a copy of tour notes from 1974
(?)
has anything significant been unearthed along here since that time?

Cheers,

Glenn Howe

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