Date   

Re: Law changes could close Illawarra railway museum

Eddie Oliver <eoliver@...>
 

John Garaty wrote:
Hi all
A question for Eddie and anyone else in the NSW rail industry:
It is not for me to speak on behalf of ITSRR. However if you wish me to do so, I will ensure that you get a rapid official response to what you have written to this group (I would of course need your permission to forward it) or to any similar document to which you might wish to have an official response.

What are the differences from the draft 2007 Rail Safety Act that was submitted to the NSW commercial rail industry and then seperately to tourist and heritage operators for comment and the proposed Rail Safety Act 2008 that is now about to become law in NSW at 1 July 2008?
Is it? Last time I heard (a few days ago) it has not even been to parliament yet.


Re: Perth Zoo Train

John Browning
 

A glance at the catalogue illustrations indicates that this is yet
another Perth zoo train, this one of the miniature variety. I'll leave
comments as to the gauge, locomotive type and carriages to those more
expert in this field.

John


Re: Law changes could close Illawarra railway museum

John Garaty
 

Hi all
A question for Eddie and anyone else in the NSW rail industry:
What are the differences from the draft 2007 Rail Safety Act that
was submitted to the NSW commercial rail industry and then
seperately to tourist and heritage operators for comment and the
proposed Rail Safety Act 2008 that is now about to become law in NSW
at 1 July 2008?

Please don't tell there aren't any. On the previous Comments on
Draft NSW Rail Safety (General) Regulation 2007 that appear on the
ITSRR website, ITSRR has vetoed at least 20 changes suggested by
industry and unions to wording based on the fact that the proposed
changes would have resulted in changes in wording to either the
Draft NSW (General) Regulation 2007 and/or the National
Accreditation Package (NAP). Yet in the second link on the page that
Eddie quaotes, ITSRR's reponse to the ILRMS (page13) is to change
the proposed Rail Safety Act 2008 wording away from both the draft
act (see clause 5) and the NAP (See clause 1.3).

Links from the ITSRR website to the 2007 Draft Rail Safety Act at:
http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/pdf/exposure/b06-072-07-d03.pdf
still show at Clause 5 "a railway that is operated solely within an
amusement or theme park is required to be registered as an amusement
device under occupational health and safety legislation and does not
operate on or across a road within the meaning of the Road Transport
(Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999" as being one of
the "Railways to which this act does not apply".

This description IS the ILRMS who have safely operated on a 500m of
track circle around our picnic ground for 20-plus years under
Workcover Amusement Device accreditation prior to the introduction
of the Rail Safety Act 2002. Since the inception of the Rail Safety
Act, the ILRMS has always been an accredited railway by ITSSR and
its predecessor the Department Of Transport, with an acceptable SMS
based on our operators being classed as medical category 3 based on
2 operators in the cab driving a single train in motion at at time
over short distances, with low train masses (<50 tonne) and at low
speed(20kph max) on an almost level site. Over the years our
volunteers have consistently met increasingly more stringent "paper"
reporting, training and SMS requirements and achieved accreditation
EVERY time. ITSSR's insistance after our review this year that we
now MUST go to medical category 2 and then changing the new act to
remove the amusement device exemption without any notice or
consultation is the final straw.

Also read in ITSRR's response to heritage operators that the 4 types
of railway proposed under the Draft Act have suddenly been reduced
to 3 - (a)Main Line (b) Isolated Lines (c)Static Museums. Are Eddy
and others aware that ITSRR's preferred option for the NSWRTM is to
treat ALL NSWRTM sites as type (a) MAINLINE operations with ALL
personnel required to meet medical category 2 conditions?

By removing the amusement device exemption, every rail-mounted
carnival ride coming into NSW with a gauge of 600mm or more, from
big dippers, ghost trains to christmas train "kiddie rides" in
shopping centres, now fall under ITSRR as a type B Railway and will
be required to meet SMS and medical category 2 operator health
conditions from July 1 2008.

In as much as ITSRR champions a "consultative approach" to the
heritage and tourist sector on its website, the comment by its
spokesman in the newspaper article is quite telling.
I quote: A Transport Department spokesman said:
"To protect passengers, volunteers and the general public
Independent Transport Safety and Reliability Regulator safety
standards already apply to the larger heritage rail operators and it
is our intention for these standards to apply to all operators,
regardless of size." What this spokesman forgot to add
was "regardless of these medical standards' relevance to the degree
of risk at the operator's site". This looks more like "inflexible
intransigence" than "consultation" to me. The timing of the release
of this feedback in late May means that the rail heritage sector in
NSW has very little room and even less time to react to any
surprises.

With 2 weeks to go before this new act applies, how many other
changes are ITSRR planning to "foist" the NSW rail industry, for
both commercial and heritage operations, without notice or
consultation with this new 2008 Rail Safety Act?

Enquiring minds want to know....
So far no answers have been received.....
Regards,
John Garaty
Unanderra

--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, Eddie Oliver <eoliver@...> wrote:

To get the full context, which gives a rather different story, see
http://transportregulator.nsw.gov.au/publications/information_alerts/
InfoAlert_Safety_Regulation_Heritage_Railway.pdf
and the links attached.

Operators need to have a safety management system proportionate to
their
scale of operations.


Perth Zoo Train

norann2u
 

Only days after wondering what had happened the the Perth Zoo Train ,
how about this.
In todays 'The West Australia' on page 148 in the Auctions section, an
advert.

Alan Donnelly will auction the Swinbank Collection on Sat 21st and Sun
22nd June at 10am included is .... "1954 Train ex Perth Zoo with
numerous carriages and Massie 135 petrol engine complete with rails,
in original condition"

Details www.adauctions.com.au

It's a small world! or should that be It's a narrow gauge world?

Regards to you all

Norman of Wilson Perth WA


Re: Forty years ago today - VLRRS becomes LRRSA

Arthur & Margaret <warreen@...>
 

G.day all I have a little industrial railway 184 mm I would have liked 300 mm gauge but when I looked at the cost,it got the flick. So I check out 7.25" and it would do my operations very well. Arthur Boyd. I think the name change came to late but never late anyway, keep up the good work, I love the magazine

----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Stamford
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 1:15 PM
Subject: [LRRSA] Forty years ago today - VLRRS becomes LRRSA


A significant decision in the the history of the LRRSA was made forty
years ago today!

At the Annual General Meeting of the Victorian Light Railway Research
Society on Thursday 14 June 1968 the name of the Society was changed
to Light Railway Research Society of Australia. And with that change
the breadth of the Society's activities widened dramatically.

The change followed a suggestion made by Bruce Macdonald, who wrote in
a letter published in "Light Railways" No.23 Autumn 1968:

"Have you given thought to diversifying your scope beyond Victoria,
like change the title to the Australian Light Railway Research
Society, or A.L.R. Society, or Australian Light Railway and Tramway
Society. I really think you would get support, there are quite a
number of people who are interested in little railways who are not
catered for at present."

And so the change was made within three months of that letter being
published.

Frank






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Re: Forty years ago today - VLRRS becomes LRRSA

David Halfpenny <dh16mm@...>
 

Thank you all very much! David 1/2d England

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Frank Stamford" <frank.stamford@bigpond.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 4:15 AM

At the Annual General Meeting of the Victorian Light Railway Research
Society on Thursday 14 June 1968 the name of the Society was changed
to Light Railway Research Society of Australia. And with that change
the breadth of the Society's activities widened dramatically.


Re: Early 3 ft 6 in gauge railways

Phil Rickard <chy_gwel_an_meneth@...>
 

--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "john browning" <ceo8@...> wrote:

I wonder what progress has been made in making Australian newspapers
available?

John
Yes, that was also my question when I came across the Kiwi's most
useful web site for digitised newspapers. (National Library of NZ)

Checking with the National Library of Australia I came across this
site: http://www.nla.gov.au/ndp/ so we seem to be making some
real progress in this direction - maybe in the next year or so we'll
have something with which we can start trawling. (and who knows, if
everyone who reads this, wrote to Mr Rudd requesting more funding for
the NLA's project, it might happen sooner!)

But for the present, one can often find Australian and foreign items,
reprinted in NZ papers - but as with all such items, double check with
other sources.

cheers Phil


Re: Law changes could close Illawarra railway museum

Eddie Oliver <eoliver@...>
 

To get the full context, which gives a rather different story, see
http://transportregulator.nsw.gov.au/publications/information_alerts/InfoAlert_Safety_Regulation_Heritage_Railway.pdf
and the links attached.

Operators need to have a safety management system proportionate to their scale of operations.


Law changes could close Illawarra railway museum

BLI BLI <alcogoodwin@...>
 

BY BRETT COX
11/06/2008 3:34:00 PM
A 29-year-old tourist attraction popular with families will be forced to close if the State Government pushes ahead with new legislation on rail safety.

Volunteers from the Illawarra Light Railway Museum, who run regular steam and diesel train rides at Albion Park, say the proposed laws would mean their trains would be assessed to the same safety standards as trains on the CityRail network.

Given the Albion Park trains run on their own 500m loop at about 14km/h on a slim 610mm track, the not-for-profit organisation believes the safety standards they have applied for almost 30 years - without any major incidents - are more than adequate.

But in the wake of the Waterfall train disaster the Government is pushing ahead with tough new safety measures that - unlike the national standard - don't have a clause which provides concessions for railways "totally within a theme or amusement park which does not cross a public road".

The museum's founder and operations manager, Tony Madden, said the attraction would not be able to afford to stay open if the proposed laws were passed.

Only miniature trains have been running since March as volunteers - most of whom are retired men - work to improve the larger trains and tracks to satisfy the regulator.

The drivers would have to undergo thorough medical tests and the vehicles and tracks would have to match up to the same standards as trains which carry commuters on CityRail.

A Transport Department spokesman said:

"To protect passengers, volunteers and the general public Independent Transport Safety and Reliability Regulator safety standards already apply to the larger heritage rail operators and it is our intention for these standards to apply to all operators, regardless of size."

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Forty years ago today - VLRRS becomes LRRSA

Frank Stamford
 

A significant decision in the the history of the LRRSA was made forty
years ago today!

At the Annual General Meeting of the Victorian Light Railway Research
Society on Thursday 14 June 1968 the name of the Society was changed
to Light Railway Research Society of Australia. And with that change
the breadth of the Society's activities widened dramatically.

The change followed a suggestion made by Bruce Macdonald, who wrote in
a letter published in "Light Railways" No.23 Autumn 1968:

"Have you given thought to diversifying your scope beyond Victoria,
like change the title to the Australian Light Railway Research
Society, or A.L.R. Society, or Australian Light Railway and Tramway
Society. I really think you would get support, there are quite a
number of people who are interested in little railways who are not
catered for at present."

And so the change was made within three months of that letter being
published.

Frank


Re: Perth Zoo Train

Michael J
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Roderick B Smith [mailto:rodsmith@werple.net.au]
Sent: 13/06/2008 10:10:51 AM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Perth Zoo Train


Does the heritage information want to link to trains at other zoos?
I have been on the one at Melbourne, but can't recall having a photo.
I do have a photo of the one at Adelaide.
Whipsnade (UK) has a well-known railway.
My professional life is closely involved with the zoo industry, and zoo trains were once as common as elephant rides and chimpanzee tea parties, and tended to start to disappear about the same time. Zoos came to see themselves less as amusement parks and more as serious educational and scientific institutions. If I remember correctly Currumbin Wildlife Park on the Gold Coast still has a train, which serves to move visitors between the two halves of the park.

Whipsnade's railway is of course a full size 2'6" gauge railway using former military and industrial locomotives, and not the miniature type used in Australian zoos.

Michael


Re: 610 mm gauge Deutz Locomotives at Queenstown

John Browning
 

Dear Weston

Try purchasing "Light Railways" 201 (June 2008) which may well be on
sale at your friendly newsagent as we speak, or alternatively purchase
it at http://www.lrrsa.org.au/cgi-bin/oscommerce/index.php

It contains photographs taken at Queenstown and all I know about these
locomotives. Anything you can add would be received with great
interest.

Best wishes

John Browning


Re: Perth Zoo Train

David Whiteford <david.whiteford@...>
 

Further to my earlier email, I have just heard that the zoo railway train is still extant at a property near Wanneroo and moves are being made to have it preserved, possibly at Whiteman Park by the W.A. Light Railway Preservation Association (Bennett Brook Railway).

The Willis Engineering road one didn't get used on the zig-zag though it was proposed.

Cheers
David

________________________________

From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Roderick B Smith
Sent: Friday, 13 June 2008 8:11 AM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: [LRRSA] Re: Perth Zoo Train



I know nothing of the first Perth zoo train.
I am sure that I read about the second one (rubber tyred) being used on
the site of Kalamunda zig zag. Perhaps that was only a proposal?
Perhaps it was a different product from Willis?

Does the heritage information want to link to trains at other zoos?
I have been on the one at Melbourne, but can't recall having a photo.
I do have a photo of the one at Adelaide.
Whipsnade (UK) has a well-known railway.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor


Re: Perth Zoo Train

Roderick Smith
 

I know nothing of the first Perth zoo train.
I am sure that I read about the second one (rubber tyred) being used on
the site of Kalamunda zig zag. Perhaps that was only a proposal?
Perhaps it was a different product from Willis?

Does the heritage information want to link to trains at other zoos?
I have been on the one at Melbourne, but can't recall having a photo.
I do have a photo of the one at Adelaide.
Whipsnade (UK) has a well-known railway.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor


Re: Last Call for Steamy Java 2008

Roderick Smith
 

I have booked, along with three other Australians. Chances like this
do not emerge very often. After an excellent tour to Java in 1978-
79, I waited until I could cover sugar mills in sugar season for a
return, and that chance is now. I exploited a similar rare chance to
Negros (Philippines) when there was abundant sugar-mill and timber
steam, and was really glad that I grabbed the opportunity when it was
available.
Travelling with Garuda works, but flights may be full. However,
travelling with MAS is only $30 more, and should still have space.

Travelling to Indonesia as such is friendly and easy: forget about
Bali bombings; you have more risk in King St at 2 am. Travel to
sugar mills is harder to arrange solo.

Regards,
Roderick B Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor

"john_raby" <jraby@...> wrote:
We still have 4 places available for our Java sugar mill tour 16
July - 2 August...(chinasteamATdial.pipex.com) and cc to me John Raby
(jrabyATwaitrose.com).


Re: Perth Zoo Train

David Whiteford <david.whiteford@...>
 

Sorry, no further news on the LR160 piece from me in WA either!
However, Frank, if you want to provide the student with my contact details I am happy to assist with research resources on the history of the railway.
Cheers
David Whiteford
(david.whiteford@slwa.wa.gov.au)

________________________________

From: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au [mailto:LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au] On Behalf Of Bob Mckillop
Sent: Thursday, 5 June 2008 7:08 AM
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Perth Zoo Train



In response to Frank's request, I have not heard anything further re the
first Perth Zoo train since the report published in Light Railways 160
(August 2001). You might, however, check if your correspondence has an
update on the second generation Perth Zoo 'train' built by Wills Engineering
in 1988 as road vehicles. The steam outline locomotive is based on a profile
of a WAGR H class 0-6-0T. This train is at the Kojonup Tourist Railway where
it is in the process of being converted to rail operation when last
reported.

Bob McKillop
----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Stamford
To: LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au <mailto:LRRSA%40yahoogroups.com.au>
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 8:42 AM
Subject: [LRRSA] Perth Zoo Train

The LRRSA has received the following request for information:

"I am a Curtin University student and am currently undertaking a practicum
at the Perth Zoo.
The practicum involves making a heritage trail, one of the sites is the zoo
train station.
I have a clock which apparently was donated to the zoo by the Government
Railway Authority of 1932 when the train started running. I am wanting to
know if you would know where to look to find out if this clock was in fact
donated to the zoo by the Government Railway
Authority of the day.
Also has there been any updates as to the whereabouts of the zoo train in
your article of August 2001?"

Can anyone help with information?

Regards,

Frank


Re: Climax re-gauging? Do-able... RE 1694 post TVT

John Dimitrievich <johnd@...>
 

Dear Frank,



I'll happily stand corrected on that, I just recall Steve stating that
he'd checked and found the trucks to be the standard "Climax 3' gauge"
configuration. Possibly I'm recalling/mis-understanding a conversation
prior to his 2nd visit? (I hosted Steve and Mary during their trip in
'02, does this match the 1st or 2nd visit?)



Happy Researching,

Prof Klyzlr


Re: Climax re-gauging? Do-able... RE 1694 post TVT

Frank Stamford
 

--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "Professor Klyzlr" <johnd@...> wrote:

Dear Mike, Frank, et al,

Tis a pity that no-one realised that 1694's trucks were 3' design
units, with the wheels pushed in on the axles and sleeved to 30" gauge.
(These dimensions noted and confirmed by Steve Hauff,
one of the authors of the Osorail "Climax" book).
Sorry Prof but I don't understand this statement. I was with Steve
Hauff on both occasions that he inspected Climax loco 1694, firstly at
Belgrave, then some years later at "The Nursery" at Emerald. On the
second occasion he was particularly interested in measuring and
photographing the trucks because he was of the BELIEF that he would
find they were standard 3 ft gauge trucks with the wheels adapted in
the way you say to 2 ft 6in gauge. After measuring and inspecting them
he told me they were NOT standard 3 ft gauge trucks, but were narrower.

Regards,

Frank


610 mm gauge Deutz Locomotives at Queenstown

pagyahs <westonlangford@...>
 

In January 1963 I photographed three of these locomotives which, by
recollection, were stored out of service near MLMRC's Locomotive Shed.

I would be grateful for any specific information relating to these
locomotives or direction to any available reference documentation about
them.

Sincerely

Weston Langford


Climax re-gauging? Do-able... RE 1694 post TVT

Professor Klyzlr <johnd@...>
 

Dear Mike, Frank, et al,

Tis a pity that no-one realised that 1694's trucks were 3' design
units, with the wheels pushed in on the axles and sleeved to 30" gauge.
(These dimensions noted and confirmed by Steve Hauff,
one of the authors of the Osorail "Climax" book).

Climax only ever built 3' gauge and SG trucks for the "steel rail"
locos,
(pole road versions were a completely different animal altogether,
with gauges up to and including 8' not unknown),

The end gauging of the loco being set by the "heat shrink" positioning
of the wheels on the axles.
(IE for gauges SG > 3'4",
SG design trucks were used with a "SG Bolster" arrangement,
and the wheelsets adjusted accordingly.

For gauges less than or equal to 3',
a narrower "3' design bolster" truck was used,
and the wheelsets adjusted accordingly).

Had any of the other sawmillers been comfy with doing a "regauge" on
the 4 wheelsets to 3' gauge, then 1694 may have indeed had a different
history post TVT service...
(Although, the fact that 1694 is still around is a Very Positive thing,
please don't mis-understand me! :-) ).

Of course, given the weakening of the wheel/axle positioning inboard
from the axleboxes and bearing surfaces,
and the known "tendency to break axles",
it is possible that the VRNG fixes/rebuilds rendered such "designed-in
regauging" impossible...???

Happy Researching
and Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr


--- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "mcsawdust" <mike.mccarthy@...> wrote:

Hi Frank,
SNIP

Nobody was interested in a 2'6" gauge Climax or TACLs! If the line
was built to 3' gauge they would have been snapped up in an
instant. I think we would have seen the climax working for either
the FCV or Ezard on the Thomson Valley line.

Mike

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