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Re: LRRSA group
BLI BLI <alcogoodwin@...>
Hi everyone,
Does someone wish to write a disclaimer that they feel is suitable for use? I may be able to squeeze the first bit on the front page (limited characters allowed and I have already done much squeezing). I am thinking the diclaimer could be added as a footer at the bottom of posts. Yahoo can do this automatically so it isnt any hassle. Cheers Brad ** Will likely be back online Sunday due to work and Newcastle. I do agree with John's proposal for further moderators and this three days away is a good reason why :-) --- john browning <ceo8@iinet.net.au> wrote: We also need to add to the front page the #### LocoShed Australasia Website #### http://www.geocities.com/steelhaven_ee/LocoShed.html ** Australian Industrial & Preserved Railways. ** Railways of the Philippines and South East Asia ** LocoShed Express in 'Railway Digest' ** Asst editor: Asia-Rail magazine. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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Group promotion
BM
The establishment of this group has clearly been welcomed with considerable
enthusiasm by those who know about it and I for one look forward to its ongoing development with interest. I have been in touch with Brad re a promotional item in the next issue of LR. The thinking at this stage is that this should be based on the statement about the group that Frank has downloaded in the Files section. Any further suggestions as to how we might promote the Group through Light Railways would be much appreciated. Brad, on joining I opted to have the postings emailed as a daily bulletin, but have not received anything. Is this feature operational as yet? Bob McKillop
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Bluescope Steel Jottings 16-8-2006
BLI BLI <alcogoodwin@...>
Hi all,
Due to a shift in work days I was free to go looking around with Tezza yesterday. This is some of the BSL stuff we noted. Movements at Cringila between 12.00 and 13.10. D34 mt coal works-Exchange sidings 8135 LE into works D39 coils into exchange sidings from west end. 8124 coal into works from Kemira. D40 push pul coal with D34 into the works. D39 LE from exchange sidings into works. 8117 empty coal from works out to mine (Kemira?) 8124 BSL coal unloader 13.56 BXLAs noted stored at Outer Harbour (not a complete list) 110, 114, 103, 74, 120, 109, 104, 64, 51 ** Numerous are still stored near the unwanted locos at Brickworks. These locos dont appear to have changed since the last visit and should be D16, D32, D6, D31 and D24. D38 coil steel shunt opposite visitors centre. 14.08 Cheers Brad ** Back to work in 15 minutes :-( #### LocoShed Australasia Website #### http://www.geocities.com/steelhaven_ee/LocoShed.html ** Australian Industrial & Preserved Railways. ** Railways of the Philippines and South East Asia ** LocoShed Express in 'Railway Digest' ** Asst editor: Asia-Rail magazine. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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A Children's Book
bll_hnks
I have been lent a children’s book published by the Forest Education Foundation of Tasmania in 2004 called “postcards from the town that disappeared”. Story and text are by Celia Lendis and it is illustrated by John Lendis. It has been given a “Notable Book” classification by the Children’s Book Council of Australia. It is contains numerous coloured illustrations of people, the sawmill, the tramway and other activities in the bush.
From the back cover: -
“Postcards from the town that disappeared”, takes us on a journey with an eleven year old boy and his pony called Joe. Together they travel though the thick forests of Tasmania to deliver mail to the town of Wielangta after school. This was to be the boy’s last summer delivering mail, before a series of bushfires ravaged the area and the town was finally abandoned. Set during the 1920s, this fictional story, along with the richly evocative paintings, archival photographs and snippets of correspondence, creates a vivid historical portrait of the hardships and joys of living and working in a timber town in Tasmania during the early decades of the twentieth century”.
To me the book has a good feel to it and should not be dismissed a being merely a children’s book. I believe it has a place beside other serious works in our libraries because of the historical references contained within it.
Regards,
Bill Hanks.
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Want to buy a steam locomotive, traction engine or car ?
Frank Stamford
Here is a very interesting web site if you have an urgent need to buy a steam locomotive, traction engine, steam truck, or steam car:
http://www.prestonservices.co.uk/ Regards, Frank
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New file uploaded to LRRSA
LRRSA@...
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the LRRSA group. File : /This is the LRRSA Yahoogroup-3.doc Uploaded by : fstamford <frank.stamford@bigpond.com> Description : Modified and annotated version of redrafted front page remarks for Group with disclaimer etc You can access this file at the URL http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/LRRSA/files/This%20is%20the%20LRRSA%20Yahoogroup-3.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/au/groups/files Regards, fstamford <frank.stamford@bigpond.com>
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LRRSA group
We also need to add to the front page the information that material posted may be adapted for use in LRRSA publications as well as the disclaimer that was proposed.
Cheers
John
John Browning
PO Box 5646
Phone +61 (0) 7 4926 6356
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The gauge question - David Mitchell Estate
Phil Rickard <chy_gwel_an_meneth@...>
Blokes,
John is correct in that the DME's overburden lines and works' lines around the kiln's were 3ft-gauge. A very good photo of a TACL loco, also on 3ft-ga exists - it is hauling skips around the kilns. A 1920's (?) photo of the quarry also shows a loco therein - another TACL maybe or the Whitcombe hauling trucks to the incline base? The o/b lines used Western dump trucks and maybe it was on these that the Whitcombe got a job. (The Commonwealth Engineer Nov 1926 only shows std gauge and 3ft gauge - this is about the time of a major upgrade of the plant and long after the original narrow-gauge firewood tramway had give way to 4ft 8½ins-gauge) The sleeper I found "out the back", next to the firewood tramway formation, was a fair way from the works and the o/b dumps, but immediately adjacent to the tramway (in the sort of position you might toss it if you were re-sleepering and had no further use for it.) All of which proves nothing. I took photos and measurements at the time and 3ft 6ins comes to mind but I'll go searching the Agfa boxes to confirm! As Colin mentioned, scaling the best photo we have of the original 0-4-0G loco gives a gauge anywhere from 3ft to 3ft 6ins - maybe it was one metre! I was hoping that roadworks on Swansea Road 11-12 years' ago (Melway 38 G7) might find a sleeper from the 1890's but nothing appeared, although the road people were looking (so they said). cheers Phil
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LRRSA Yahoo group
Gentlemen
I have done some work to refine Brad's draft for the front page of the group (and I haven't yet read the debate that has already started over the gauge question). We are revisiting an age-old question here and I think we need to emphasise (somehow) that the categories are not exclusive of each other.
Can I suggest the wording that has been posted to the files section on the Group page. (You’ll be notified of this separately and given a link.). I'm happy to explain anything, but have noted carefully the approaches used by a number of other groups of which I am a member in order to make their membership inclusive but not open slather.
I would also like at this stage to volunteer to share with Brad the moderator role as if we have any difficulty with errant members, it is always best to have a “brains trust” to decide what to do. I’d suggest we need a third moderator and would like to suggest Frank if he is available. The duties of the non-owner moderators is likely to be consultative to Brad more than anything else.
I’ll now go and read those contentious offerings that have appeared already.
By the way, I use the “daily digest” option to receive messages.
John
John Browning Rockhampton Queensland Australia
PO Box 5646 Central Queensland Mail Centre 4702
Phone +61 (0) 7 4926 6356 Mobile 0407 069 199
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Stamford [mailto:frank.stamford@...] Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 11:48 AM To: Bill Hanks; Bob McKillop; Chris and Phil Rickard; Bruce Belbin; Colin Harvey; Colin Harvey; David Whiteford; Hugh Markwick; John Browning; Ken Milbourne; Malcolm Dow; Mike McCarthy; Peter Evans; Phil Rickard; Richard Warwick; Wayne D. Brown; Andrew Hennell; Frank Savery; cjmoonie@...; BLI BLI Subject: RE: LRRSA - Proposed Yahoo group
Blokes,
I suggested to Brad that it might be useful to set up the LRRSA Yahoo group on a pilot basis with just the people on the address list of this email as the initial members.
That way we can use the group to discuss its development and how we advertise it, and if you have not had experience of a Yahoo group, it will be a good way to see how they work.
Probably later today you will get an invitation from Brad to join the LRRSA Yahoo group. I urge you to come on board. It costs nothing, and is easy to escape from if you don't like it!
Regards,
Frank
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The gauge question - David Mitchell
Dear humble and respectful (both of you)
The records of George D Whitcomb of Rochelle, Illinois, USA, indicate that in May 1924 he supplied a Model MO 7-ton 4-wheel petrol locomotive with a Waukesha engine fitted with 24” driving wheels to Gilbert & McAuliffe, Melbourne for David Mitchell Estate, Cave Hill, Lilydale. The locomotive’s gauge was recorded as 36” (ie 3ft)
Diligently
John
John Browning
PO Box 5646
Phone +61 (0) 7 4926 6356
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New file uploaded to LRRSA
LRRSA@...
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the LRRSA group. File : /This is the LRRSA Yahoogroup.doc Uploaded by : johnkenyonbrowning <ceo8@iinet.net.au> Description : Proposal to redraft front page remarks for Group You can access this file at the URL http://au.groups.yahoo.com/group/LRRSA/files/This%20is%20the%20LRRSA%20Yahoogroup.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/au/groups/files Regards, johnkenyonbrowning <ceo8@iinet.net.au>
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Re: LRRSA Group
BLI BLI <alcogoodwin@...>
--- Bill Hanks <bhanks@railsignallingservices.com.au>
wrote: Brad, Thank-you for establishing this group. Regards, Bill.>>>>>> Hi Bill, It is my pleasure, I am looking forward to meeting so many like minded people and many whos names I have seen over the years of being a LRRSA member. I was surprised to see postings so soon. Hopefully this is a great sign for the future and that the group encourages a lot more interest in our great society. Regards Brad #### LocoShed Australasia Website #### http://www.geocities.com/steelhaven_ee/LocoShed.html ** Australian Industrial & Preserved Railways. ** Railways of the Philippines and South East Asia ** LocoShed Express in 'Railway Digest' ** Asst editor: Asia-Rail magazine. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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Re: The gauge question ...
Frank Stamford
When the LRRSA changed its name from Victorian Light Railway Research Society to Light Railway Research Society of Australia in 1968 (only 36 years ago) the coverage was intended to be:
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
(i) Any Australian railway or tramway with a gauge of less than 3 ft 6 in (ii) Any Australian railway or tramway with a gauge of 3 ft 6 in or more which was not owned by the state government railways or the Commonwealth Railways. This definition included city passenger carrying tramways, but these were largely (and deliberately) ignored because they were already well looked after by another organisation. This definition was designed to include operations like the Emu Bay Railway, Kerang - Koondrook Shire Tramway, and the Queensland Shire Tramways. I don't think we have ever officially changed from these definitions, although they have become more complicated to define since most of the operations in item (ii) above are now privatised. I think if we changed our definition of "light railway" to the extent that it excluded operations like the 3 ft 6 in gauge Aramac and Beaudesert Shire Tramways, and the 5 ft 3 in gauge Koondrook Shire Tramway, we would be narrowing our focus too far, since they were all weird, poverty-stricken and eccentric operations, and surely these are some of the essential features of the traditional "light railway"! Regards, Frank
At 02:34 PM 15/08/2006, you wrote:
Thanks Brad,
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Re: The gauge question ...
Colin Harvey
Peter (I've run out of salutations)
Did this not indicate a gauge substantially less than Standard?Very suggestive of a gauge less than standard...but it could be metre like Hartley Vale! Colin --- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "Peter Evans" <pevans@s...> wrote: determine the gauge of the wierd geared steam beastie which as believed to be thefirst locomotive used on the line. Did this not indicate a gaugesubstantially less than Standard?Behalf Of Colin Harveymeasurement obtained.On BehalfMitchellOf Colin Harvey3ft addition,firewood tram (3-ft 6-in and, later, standard gauge). Ingauge ofthere were heaps of very traditional "light railways" with a3-Powelltownft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of theline.
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LRRSA Group
bll_hnks
Brad,
Thank-you for establishing this group.
It’s good to see that it has gotten off to a contentious start. May it all be in the same good spirit.
Regards,
Bill.
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Re: The gauge question ...
Peter Evans <pevans@...>
Thanks Brad,
Point taken. I think this group is an excellent idea and
congratulations on getting it up and running.
Cheers,
PeterE. From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...] On Behalf Of BLI BLI Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 2:22 PM To: LRRSA@... Subject: Re: [LRRSA] The gauge question ... The front page may require a rewording I think. I just threw it together in a hurry this morning. Such operations would of course be considered in topic. I tend to consider logging railways to be an industrial operation and thus fit into #1 on the front page. This may indeed be a wrong decision on my part. The main reason for having the 3ft6 in #2 was to avoid items like Queensland Rail which isn't within the scope of Light Railways. I pretty much use Light Railways as a guide to topics covered with a small diversion in the inclusion of modelling of industrial topics. Anyway welcome to the group guys, it is great to have you here. Regards Brad --- sawdustoz wrote: > Hi All, > > Perhaps this group might like to consider light > railways with a gauge > greater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring > to mind are the > McIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse > trams of the Wombat > Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the > David Mitchell > firewood tram (3-ft 6-in and, later, standard > gauge). In addition, > there were heaps of very traditional "light > railways" with a gauge of 3- > ft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of > the Powelltown line. > > Cheers, > PeterE. > > > > > #### LocoShed Australasia Website #### http://www.geocities.com/steelhaven_ee/LocoShed.html ** Australian Industrial & Preserved Railways. ** Railways of the Philippines and South East Asia ** LocoShed Express in 'Railway Digest' ** Asst editor: Asia-Rail magazine. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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Re: The gauge question ...
Peter Evans <pevans@...>
Dear Humble Colin,
I also seem to recall some photographic scaling going on to
determine the gauge of the wierd geared steam beastie which as believed to be
the first locomotive used on the line. Did this not indicate a gauge
substantially less than Standard?
Respectfully
Sawdustoz. From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...] On Behalf Of Colin Harvey Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 2:22 PM To: LRRSA@... Subject: [LRRSA] Re: The gauge question ... I have no doubt there was a 3ft 6in gauge sleeper, but was it from the firewood line or one of the overburden tramways? I suspect the latter is more likely. Not that this precludes the firewood tram from being 3ft 6in gauge, it's just not sufficient evidence in my opinion. Humbly Colin --- In LRRSA@..., "Peter Evans" wrote: > > Colin, > > I refer to colleague Rickard who measured a sleeper complete with dogspike > holes beside the line (before it disappeared under McMansions and Starter > Castles). I'm pretty sure that 3-ft 6-in gauge was the measurement obtained. > > Cordially, > Sawdustoz. > > _____ > > From: LRRSA@... [mailto:LRRSA@...] On Behalf > Of Colin Harvey > Sent: Tuesday, 15 August 2006 1:55 PM > To: LRRSA@... > Subject: [LRRSA] Re: The gauge question ... > > > Mr Evans > > What evidence to you have that David Mitchell's firewood tram was 3ft > 6in gauge? > > Colin > > --- In LRRSA@..., "sawdustoz" wrote: > > > > Hi All, > > > > Perhaps this group might like to consider light railways with a gauge > > greater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring to mind are the > > McIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse trams of the Wombat > > Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the David Mitchell > > firewood tram (3-ft 6-in and, later, standard gauge). In addition, > > there were heaps of very traditional "light railways" with a gauge of > 3- > > ft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of the Powelltown > line. > > > > Cheers, > > PeterE. > > >
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Re: The gauge question ...
bll_hnks
Gentlemen,
It's good to see the discussions have gotten off to a contentious start. May they all be in the right spirit. Hooroo, Bill Hanks --- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "Peter Evans" <pevans@s...> wrote: dogspike holes beside the line (before it disappeared under McMansions andStarter Castles). I'm pretty sure that 3-ft 6-in gauge was the measurementobtained. On Behalf Of Colin Harvey3ft 6in gauge?gauge thegreater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring to mind are WombatMcIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse trams of the addition,Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the David Mitchell gauge ofthere were heaps of very traditional "light railways" with a 3-Powelltownft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of the line.
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Re: The gauge question ...
Colin Harvey
Peter
I have no doubt there was a 3ft 6in gauge sleeper, but was it from the firewood line or one of the overburden tramways? I suspect the latter is more likely. Not that this precludes the firewood tram from being 3ft 6in gauge, it's just not sufficient evidence in my opinion. Humbly Colin --- In LRRSA@yahoogroups.com.au, "Peter Evans" <pevans@s...> wrote: dogspike holes beside the line (before it disappeared under McMansions andStarter Castles). I'm pretty sure that 3-ft 6-in gauge was the measurementobtained. Behalf Of Colin Harvey3ft 6in gauge?gauge thegreater than 3-ft 6-in? Victorian lines that spring to mind are WombatMcIvor firewood line (5-ft 3-in), the early horse trams of the addition,Forest south of Bendigo (also 5-ft 3-in), and the David Mitchell gauge ofthere were heaps of very traditional "light railways" with a 3-Powelltownft 6-in, especially in the Otway Forest and east of the line.
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Re: The gauge question ...
BLI BLI <alcogoodwin@...>
Hi Peter,
The front page may require a rewording I think. I just threw it together in a hurry this morning. Such operations would of course be considered in topic. I tend to consider logging railways to be an industrial operation and thus fit into #1 on the front page. This may indeed be a wrong decision on my part. The main reason for having the 3ft6 in #2 was to avoid items like Queensland Rail which isn't within the scope of Light Railways. I pretty much use Light Railways as a guide to topics covered with a small diversion in the inclusion of modelling of industrial topics. Anyway welcome to the group guys, it is great to have you here. Regards Brad --- sawdustoz <pevans@solutionred.com.au> wrote: Hi All, #### LocoShed Australasia Website #### http://www.geocities.com/steelhaven_ee/LocoShed.html ** Australian Industrial & Preserved Railways. ** Railways of the Philippines and South East Asia ** LocoShed Express in 'Railway Digest' ** Asst editor: Asia-Rail magazine. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
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