Re: Norwegian Museum Railways ...

Frank Stamford

On 3/01/2011 9:59 AM, richard horne wrote:

But don't the early 3'6"g. locos in Norway have more in common with
those in South Australia that in Queensland? Norway's Beyer, Peacock
2-4-0Ts with sloping cylinders dated from1873 and the SAR's W class
2-6-0s of 1877 were clearly a BP development of that design. I
imagine that the SAR V class 0-4-4Ts of 1876 were derived from the
Norwegian 0-4-4Ts of 1875, both being built by BP. Both systems used
centre couplings, whereas QGR used buffers and screw link couplings.
I seem to recall that either John Knowles or Bill Callaghan had an
interest in this, but I'm sure that you are well aware of it, too.

Hello Richard,

Yes there is also a close connection between the early South Australian
3ft 6in gauge and the Norwegian 3ft 6in gauge, and I intend to cover
that in the book. As things developed the South Australian 3ft 6in gauge
more closely resembled the Norwegian than did the Queensland.

Norway's Beyer, Peacock 2-4-0Ts with the sloping cylinders were an
extremely important development, as they greatly surpassed the previous
attempts at building 3ft 6in gauge locos in performance. They appear to
have been jointly designed by Carl Pihl (of Norway) and Charles Beyer.
The first was "Tryggve" BP builder's number 704 of June 1866, so they
predated the Isle of Man copies by a considerable time. Yes the SAR "V"
class derived from the Norwegian Type VI, but they were much smaller
than the Norwegian locos.

The early sequence of 3ft 6in gauge developments (as I see it) were:

1. 1862 - Hamar-Grundsett (Norway) railway opened - proved 3ft 6in gauge
would work for a public railway. Used link and pin couplings, and 0-4-2T
locomotives built by Robert Stephenson which had a rigid wheelbase and
recommended minimum curve radius of 15 chains.

2. 1864 - Trondheim-Støren (Norway) railway opened - proved 3ft 6in
gauge would work in difficult country. Still used link and pin
couplings, but locomotives were Avonside 2-4-0Ts with leading Bissell
truck, and much more successful on sharp curves (but the sharpest was 9
chains radius).

3. 1865 - 1867 Ipswich - Toowoomba railway opened - proved that 3ft 6in
gauge would work in mountainous country with very sharp curves (5 chains
radius). First locomotives were Avonside 2-4-0s - a tender version of
the locomotives already supplied to Norway. Did not use chopper
couplings as they had not been invented yet, and the English consultant
Charles Fox did not like the link and pin couplings.

4. 1866 - 1868 Drammen - Randsfjord (Norway) railway opened. First use
of chopper couplings, and first use of Beyer, Peacock sloping cylindered
2-4-0T locomotives. Both of these new developments were considered very

After that a frenzy of 3ft 6in gauge developments occurred throughout
the world.

It perplexes me why Queensland avoided using Beyer, Peacock locomotives
when they were used so successfully in all the other Australian
colonies. Possibly politicians or book-keepers made the decisions based
on lowest tender bids rather than long term cost effectiveness



--- On Sun, 2/1/11, Frank Stamford <
<>> wrote:

From: Frank Stamford <
Subject: Re: [LRRSA] Norwegian Museum Railways ...
To: <>
Date: Sunday, 2 January, 2011, 20:47

Hello Brian,

Thanks for your comment.

I do not know of any books in any language covering the subject as a

whole. There are a several good histories of individual lines in

Norwegian (the Røros line in particular), and a very good (but long

out-of-print) history of the locomotives in Norwegian, but nothing

covering the subject as a whole.

At this stage I think I have most of the necessary source material, and

an outline structure of chapter headings. When I have more to show for

it I will be seeking a publisher in the UK but if necessary I will self

publish. I expect most of the market for such a book would be in Europe,

not in the southern hemisphere, though early Queensland developments

will be partly covered in the book.



On 3/01/2011 4:14 AM, Brian Rumary wrote:

Frank Stamford wrote:
Later this year I hope to start writing a book on Norwegian 3ft 6in
gauge railways, and that will need a lot of map work.
That should be worth waiting for; I don't know of _any_ books on the
subject in English. Don't forget to let us know the details when it
finally comes out.
Brian Rumary, England
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