Wes Montgomery with Lisa Minelli #WesMontgomery


John Amato <jamato316@...>
 

Wes Montgomery with Lisa Minelli, 1967

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ-VKYhOZno

 
John Amato 
Isaiah 55:11
http://chordmelody.org


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Brad Rabuchin <bradrabuchin@...>
 

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 9:34 PM, John Amato <jamato316@...> wrote:

**


Wes Montgomery with Lisa Minelli, 1967

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ-VKYhOZno
Now that is cool but a little bizarre!


michal golis <ihroch@...>
 

Now that is cool but a little bizarre!
Bizarre is the word I was looking for(:


John Amato <jamato316@...>
 

"Bizarre" is the correct word, considering the clip came from a weekly show that was on NBC in the late 60s called "Hollywood Palace" -- it featured performers and celebrities on stage and screen -- a "Variety Show" ... Wes had just released his CTI album with "Windy", considered a "crossover" artist, "Windy" was played on AM radio all the time as it enjoyed huge record sales. The show's producers would often put artists on like "Creedence", etc., with "pop" status -- to sell the show.

It's also 'Bizarre' that Wes had such a great crossover and 'pop' success with that album.


John Amato 
Isaiah 55:11
http://chordmelody.org


________________________________
From: michal golis <ihroch@...>
To: jazz_guitar@...
Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2011 4:29 AM
Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Wes Montgomery with Lisa Minelli


 
Now that is cool but a little bizarre!
Bizarre is the word I was looking for(:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bob Hansmann
 

On 11/8/2011 11:03 AM, John Amato wrote:
"Bizarre" is the correct word, considering the clip came from a weekly show that was on NBC in the late 60s called "Hollywood Palace" -- it featured performers and celebrities on stage and screen -- a "Variety Show" ... Wes had just released his CTI album with "Windy", considered a "crossover" artist, "Windy" was played on AM radio all the time as it enjoyed huge record sales. The show's producers would often put artists on like "Creedence", etc., with "pop" status -- to sell the show.

It's also 'Bizarre' that Wes had such a great crossover and 'pop' success with that album.
No bizarre-ness or mystery about it. everyone wants to have a hit record if they can. CTI felt that this was the way to gt one for Wes, and it worked. I would have used a different approach, but hind-sight is 20/20, and those were different times. Making a "Kenny G" stereotype of Wes was indeed misguided thinking, but I can't argue with the fact that it worked financially.

His playing, though, was never compromised. Even for the fluff material and sticky-sweet arrangements that it is, Wes got that Wes sound and that Wes phrasing in there. I don't think he could've ever played badly, even if he wanted to.

best,
Bobby


jvegatrio
 

I agree, most of Wes' sound came through, even on the more commercial material. It's also worth noting that a lot of those charts were arranged by Don Sebesky, and the recordings are a who's who of studio veterans and virtuosi. Good stuff, I still dig hearing the harp playing bluesy lines on "Bumpin'"...


Cheers,
JV


Juan Vega

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Hansmann <bobbybmusic@...>
To: jazz_guitar <jazz_guitar@...>
Sent: Tue, Nov 8, 2011 4:05 am
Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Wes Montgomery with Lisa Minelli






No bizarre-ness or mystery about it. everyone wants to have a hit record
if they can. CTI felt that this was the way to gt one for Wes, and it
worked. I would have used a different approach, but hind-sight is 20/20,
and those were different times. Making a "Kenny G" stereotype of Wes was
indeed misguided thinking, but I can't argue with the fact that it
worked financially.

His playing, though, was never compromised. Even for the fluff material
and sticky-sweet arrangements that it is, Wes got that Wes sound and
that Wes phrasing in there. I don't think he could've ever played badly,
even if he wanted to.

best,
Bobby


John Amato <jamato316@...>
 

His playing, though, was never compromised. Even for the fluff material 

and sticky-sweet arrangements that it is, Wes got that Wes sound and
that Wes phrasing in there. I don't think he could've ever played badly,
even if he wanted to.

best,
Bobby

Bobby,
Wes was never comprised is the truth ... (for me he's never done a 'bad' date), just listen to "Windy" as far as his phrasing, tone, timing, and solo ... it's a pleasure to listen to either on AM or FM (jazz) radio of the day ... and that includes "today" ...


Brian Kelly
 

Bobby,

In at least one interview I read Wes adamantly defended the more commercial recordings he made. Maybe he was motivated by the financial gains but I don’t think so. What he said was that he played just as much music on the more commercial recordings as the earlier ones just less notes. I think that is a good way to look at it.





Brian

From: Bob Hansmann
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:05 AM
To: jazz_guitar@...
Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Wes Montgomery with Lisa Minelli


On 11/8/2011 11:03 AM, John Amato wrote:
"Bizarre" is the correct word, considering the clip came from a weekly
show that was on NBC in the late 60s called "Hollywood Palace" -- it
featured performers and celebrities on stage and screen -- a "Variety
Show" ... Wes had just released his CTI album with "Windy", considered
a "crossover" artist, "Windy" was played on AM radio all the time as
it enjoyed huge record sales. The show's producers would often put
artists on like "Creedence", etc., with "pop" status -- to sell the show.

It's also 'Bizarre' that Wes had such a great crossover and 'pop'
success with that album.
No bizarre-ness or mystery about it. everyone wants to have a hit record
if they can. CTI felt that this was the way to gt one for Wes, and it
worked. I would have used a different approach, but hind-sight is 20/20,
and those were different times. Making a "Kenny G" stereotype of Wes was
indeed misguided thinking, but I can't argue with the fact that it
worked financially.

His playing, though, was never compromised. Even for the fluff material
and sticky-sweet arrangements that it is, Wes got that Wes sound and
that Wes phrasing in there. I don't think he could've ever played badly,
even if he wanted to.

best,
Bobby


Chris Smart
 

I'm still not sure how you do up-strokes with your thumb. It just never feels natural to me, although I haven't really spent time on it either.

--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING
Clear True Sound
www.ctsmastering.com
and be sure to "like us" on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/CTS-Mastering/139114066128698


Brian Kelly
 

Chris,

I played with a guy who played exclusively with his thumb and he played just as many up-strokes as a pick style player. He could also do really fast single note or chord type trills. I’d have to show you how he did it. I don’t know how to explain it so you would understand how he did it and I have never seen anyone else the technique he used.






Brian

From: Chris Smart
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 12:10 PM
To: jazz_guitar@...
Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Wes Montgomery with Lisa Minelli



I'm still not sure how you do up-strokes with your thumb. It just
never feels natural to me, although I haven't really spent time on
it either.
--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING
Clear True Sound
www.ctsmastering.com
and be sure to "like us" on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/CTS-Mastering/139114066128698





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bob Hansmann
 

Hi Brian,
In at least one interview I read Wes adamantly defended the more commercial recordings he made. Maybe he was motivated by the financial gains but I don’t think so. What he said was that he played just as much music on the more commercial recordings as the earlier ones just less notes. I think that is a good way to look at it.
He had every reason to defend his playing. Anyone who disagrees need only ask himself what he himself would do against those arrangements. Wes handled it like the pro he was. I believe the same is true of George Benson, btw. hmm..............

best,
Bobby


Chris Smart
 

Hi Brian.
Very interesting.
I guess a lot of it is just the drive to develop your own way of getting the sounds in your head out through the instrument.

Sweep picking a la Gambale is another thing that has always felt just ... weird to me, but others get amazing results with it.





--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING
Clear True Sound
www.ctsmastering.com
and be sure to "like us" on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/CTS-Mastering/139114066128698


Mark Cassidy
 

--- In jazz_guitar@..., Bob Hansmann <bobbybmusic@...> wrote:

Hi Brian,
In at least one interview I read Wes adamantly defended the more
commercial recordings he made. Maybe he was motivated by the financial
gains but I don’t think so. What he said was that he played just as
much music on the more commercial recordings as the earlier ones just
less notes. I think that is a good way to look at it.
He had every reason to defend his playing. Anyone who disagrees need
only ask himself what he himself would do against those arrangements.
Wes handled it like the pro he was. I believe the same is true of George
Benson, btw. hmm..............
I don't understand why anyone would question a musician's desire / need to play more 'commercial' music. Music is music. If Wes played Jingle Bells on a ukelele with naked nuns banging tamborines I would be interested in hearing it (and seeing it!!!). Should jazz musicians live in smoky basements and refrain from making a living? I think it's a shame that someone of WM's stature would have to defend anything he played or recorded. A journalist / critic should consider himself blessed that someone like WM would even deign to speak with him. For the record I think Miles' version of Time After Time is also very cool.


Mark Cassidy





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


jamato316@...
 

Anyone w/any musical sense or awareness just needs to listen.
On Nov 8, 2011, at 1:37 PM, Bob Hansmann <bobbybmusic@...> wrote:

Hi Brian,
In at least one interview I read Wes adamantly defended the more
commercial recordings he made. Maybe he was motivated by the financial
gains but I don’t think so. What he said was that he played just as
much music on the more commercial recordings as the earlier ones just
less notes. I think that is a good way to look at it.
He had every reason to defend his playing. Anyone who disagrees need
only ask himself what he himself would do against those arrangements.
Wes handled it like the pro he was. I believe the same is true of George
Benson, btw. hmm..............

best,
Bobby

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


jamato316@...
 

... The "sweep" picking, aka, "Traverse" has been around over half a century: Chuck Wayne was doing it in the late 40s w/Woody Herman's band.
On Nov 8, 2011, at 1:44 PM, Chris Smart <csmart8@...> wrote:


Hi Brian.
Very interesting.
I guess a lot of it is just the drive to develop your own way of
getting the sounds in your head out through the instrument.

Sweep picking a la Gambale is another thing that has always felt
just ... weird to me, but others get amazing results with it.

--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING
Clear True Sound
www.ctsmastering.com
and be sure to "like us" on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/CTS-Mastering/139114066128698


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Brian Kelly
 

It’s amazing how little credit Chuck Wayne gets for developing the consecutive picking technic that is nowadays known as “sweep picking”.





Brian

From: jamato316@...
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 1:48 PM
To: jazz_guitar@...
Subject: Re: [jazz_guitar] Wes Montgomery with Lisa Minelli


... The "sweep" picking, aka, "Traverse" has been around over half a century: Chuck Wayne was doing it in the late 40s w/Woody Herman's band.
On Nov 8, 2011, at 1:44 PM, Chris Smart <mailto:csmart8%40cogeco.ca> wrote:


Hi Brian.
Very interesting.
I guess a lot of it is just the drive to develop your own way of
getting the sounds in your head out through the instrument.

Sweep picking a la Gambale is another thing that has always felt
just ... weird to me, but others get amazing results with it.

--------------------------------------------------
CTS MASTERING: PROFESSIONAL MIXING AND MASTERING
Clear True Sound
www.ctsmastering.com
and be sure to "like us" on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/CTS-Mastering/139114066128698


michal golis <ihroch@...>
 

IMO it's completely irrelevant what motives drove Wes to take a new musical
direction as far as the music itself is concerned. The question is: do you
like the music? And for me I can say that while his Day in Life is my
favorite album regardless of what he recorded before it, I cannot say the
same for this performance...to me this one is just bizarre(:

Brian: The only guy who seems to be giving Wayne the credit he deserves is
Ben Monder (a student of his).

Michal


Jeff Shirkey <jcshirke@...>
 

O
In at least one interview I read Wes adamantly defended the more
commercial recordings he made.
He had every reason to defend his playing. Anyone who disagrees need
only ask himself what he himself would do against those
arrangements.
Wes handled it like the pro he was. I
Which leads me to ask (again) if anyone has purchased the new Verve
box set of Wes' later recordings?

Thanks,

Jeff


Scott
 

--- In jazz_guitar@..., jamato316@... wrote:

... The "sweep" picking, aka, "Traverse" has been around over half a
century: Chuck Wayne was doing it in the late 40s w/Woody Herman's
band.
George Van Eps teaches it in his 1939 book, applying it to arpeggios.I first read about it in a Guitar Player article about Chuck Wayne, who has a lot of interesting things to say about guitar theory.Just from listening I have a feeling Charlie Christian used it some as well, since he didn't use alternate picking by most accounts.


John Amato <jamato316@...>
 

--- In jazz_guitar@..., jamato316@... wrote:


... The "sweep" picking, aka, "Traverse" has been around over half a
century: Chuck Wayne was doing it in the late 40s w/Woody Herman's
band.
George Van Eps teaches it in his 1939 book, applying it to arpeggios.I first read about it in a Guitar Player article about Chuck Wayne, who has a lot of interesting things to say about guitar theory.Just from listening I have a feeling Charlie Christian used it some as well, since he didn't use alternate picking by most accounts. 

In the 70s, one of my teachers was Jimmy DeAngelis, who studied under Chuck Wayne for a few years. Jimmy told me what Chuck told him when he began studying with him: "If you want to study with me you have to pick this way. I don't care how you pick now, but you have to learn this type of picking, and ONLY use this kind of picking for 6 months. Do not use any other type of picking (alternate, flat, finger style, etc) you now use for SIX MONTHS!
Well, at the time I was gigging regularly and earning some big bucks ... long story short: I bite the bullet with his method and practiced it over time to get it down while also incorporating other picking methods (after 6 months that is) ....
Chuck's method, while seeming obtuse and short-minded, did work -- and I look back at those days -- at the time it was a hard nut ... but that said, looking back is always "less painful" than looking ahead! 




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