Topics

NCC Class S and 4-4-2T locos

Colin Rainsbury
 

Hi guys I am gathering as much information about these locos with the plan to persuade a well known brass etch parts manufactures to think about doing these for us.

 

I have got the feelers out all over the place, that is if you have already come across my request for information. I am hoping that both the Manchester Museum of Science and Technology can help with the Beyer Peacock drawings and the Northern Irish Transport Museum can help with drawings of the above locos.


But if anyone has a works drawing of any of the NCC locos outside of the published books on this subject please get in touch, there are so many variations already with in the S class so having as much detail to hand is really important thanks.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Colin Rainsbury

G HAMILTON
 

Hi Colin

The original S class drawings were available from the Manchester museum, though you might have to search for order number 7511, anything that was in LMS/NCC offices at York Road was destroyed in the 1941 air raids so you can probably on to a loser, I've been seaching for drawings of the LMS/NCC brake vans used on the Ballycastle line and all I have been able to find are some, possibly apprentice drawings, done in the last days of that line and the photographs - undated - which show that the vans were modified 'over the years' and none of the photographs - that I've seen show any signs of lettering on a 'type 23' brake van. As for the Kitson 4-4-2T's I've no idea where any drawings might be found - especially after York Road had 'amended them' there are some late photographs of 113 being used on the Ballyclare Papermill trains - giben that it had a bad reputation for 'loosing it's feet, the fact that crews would not use the S2 instead tells you a lot about how bad that really was, I think I saw an article by Desmond Coakham (I think) stating that 110 was in Larne shed, still in Red Livery in 1945 but he didn't have the nerve/cheek to ask the crew of 113 to pull 110 out for photography. I have seen a photograph of S1 #42 in UTA livery in Larne shed so it looks like this livery was applied after the Larne-Ballclare line was closed.

Have Fun.
Gavin

On Saturday, 11 January 2020, 21:11:36 GMT, Colin Rainsbury <lynbarn58@...> wrote:


Hi guys I am gathering as much information about these locos with the plan to persuade a well known brass etch parts manufactures to think about doing these for us.

 

I have got the feelers out all over the place, that is if you have already come across my request for information. I am hoping that both the Manchester Museum of Science and Technology can help with the Beyer Peacock drawings and the Northern Irish Transport Museum can help with drawings of the above locos.


But if anyone has a works drawing of any of the NCC locos outside of the published books on this subject please get in touch, there are so many variations already with in the S class so having as much detail to hand is really important thanks.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Colin Rainsbury

Colin Rainsbury
 

Thanks Gavin for the notes, I do have a drawing from an old MRN I think it is from the 60's for the S class as built, but I need to check it out.

Colin


On Sat, 11 Jan 2020 at 21:52, G HAMILTON via Groups.Io <g.n.hamilton=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Colin

The original S class drawings were available from the Manchester museum, though you might have to search for order number 7511, anything that was in LMS/NCC offices at York Road was destroyed in the 1941 air raids so you can probably on to a loser, I've been seaching for drawings of the LMS/NCC brake vans used on the Ballycastle line and all I have been able to find are some, possibly apprentice drawings, done in the last days of that line and the photographs - undated - which show that the vans were modified 'over the years' and none of the photographs - that I've seen show any signs of lettering on a 'type 23' brake van. As for the Kitson 4-4-2T's I've no idea where any drawings might be found - especially after York Road had 'amended them' there are some late photographs of 113 being used on the Ballyclare Papermill trains - giben that it had a bad reputation for 'loosing it's feet, the fact that crews would not use the S2 instead tells you a lot about how bad that really was, I think I saw an article by Desmond Coakham (I think) stating that 110 was in Larne shed, still in Red Livery in 1945 but he didn't have the nerve/cheek to ask the crew of 113 to pull 110 out for photography. I have seen a photograph of S1 #42 in UTA livery in Larne shed so it looks like this livery was applied after the Larne-Ballclare line was closed.

Have Fun.
Gavin

On Saturday, 11 January 2020, 21:11:36 GMT, Colin Rainsbury <lynbarn58@...> wrote:


Hi guys I am gathering as much information about these locos with the plan to persuade a well known brass etch parts manufactures to think about doing these for us.

 

I have got the feelers out all over the place, that is if you have already come across my request for information. I am hoping that both the Manchester Museum of Science and Technology can help with the Beyer Peacock drawings and the Northern Irish Transport Museum can help with drawings of the above locos.


But if anyone has a works drawing of any of the NCC locos outside of the published books on this subject please get in touch, there are so many variations already with in the S class so having as much detail to hand is really important thanks.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Colin Rainsbury

G HAMILTON
 

Hi Colin,
I think the magazine article I am thinking of was in 'Railway Bylines'
Regards
Gavin

On Saturday, 11 January 2020, 23:31:55 GMT, Colin Rainsbury <lynbarn58@...> wrote:


Thanks Gavin for the notes, I do have a drawing from an old MRN I think it is from the 60's for the S class as built, but I need to check it out.

Colin

On Sat, 11 Jan 2020 at 21:52, G HAMILTON via Groups.Io <g.n.hamilton=btinternet.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Colin

The original S class drawings were available from the Manchester museum, though you might have to search for order number 7511, anything that was in LMS/NCC offices at York Road was destroyed in the 1941 air raids so you can probably on to a loser, I've been seaching for drawings of the LMS/NCC brake vans used on the Ballycastle line and all I have been able to find are some, possibly apprentice drawings, done in the last days of that line and the photographs - undated - which show that the vans were modified 'over the years' and none of the photographs - that I've seen show any signs of lettering on a 'type 23' brake van. As for the Kitson 4-4-2T's I've no idea where any drawings might be found - especially after York Road had 'amended them' there are some late photographs of 113 being used on the Ballyclare Papermill trains - giben that it had a bad reputation for 'loosing it's feet, the fact that crews would not use the S2 instead tells you a lot about how bad that really was, I think I saw an article by Desmond Coakham (I think) stating that 110 was in Larne shed, still in Red Livery in 1945 but he didn't have the nerve/cheek to ask the crew of 113 to pull 110 out for photography. I have seen a photograph of S1 #42 in UTA livery in Larne shed so it looks like this livery was applied after the Larne-Ballclare line was closed.

Have Fun.
Gavin

On Saturday, 11 January 2020, 21:11:36 GMT, Colin Rainsbury <lynbarn58@...> wrote:


Hi guys I am gathering as much information about these locos with the plan to persuade a well known brass etch parts manufactures to think about doing these for us.

 

I have got the feelers out all over the place, that is if you have already come across my request for information. I am hoping that both the Manchester Museum of Science and Technology can help with the Beyer Peacock drawings and the Northern Irish Transport Museum can help with drawings of the above locos.


But if anyone has a works drawing of any of the NCC locos outside of the published books on this subject please get in touch, there are so many variations already with in the S class so having as much detail to hand is really important thanks.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Colin Rainsbury

Laurence Wheeler
 

In a dusty file I have come across a drawing by B. Heaven of the S class compound. Somewhat in the mould of the famous Skinley drawings, but not as good.
I have uploaded two halves of this drawing to the NCC locos file as part a and b. Hope this helps. I love the description if the livery as "invisible green". Tops even some of the more silly names like "improved engine green".
The MRN article referred to was August 1965. There is also a comprehensive article in Railway World August 1986.
Laurence.

Colin Rainsbury
 

Thanks Laurence looks like another magazine to get

Colin


On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 at 12:48, Laurence Wheeler <laurence.wheeler35@...> wrote:
In a dusty file I have come across a drawing by B. Heaven of the S class compound. Somewhat in the mould of the famous Skinley drawings, but not as good.
I have uploaded two halves of this drawing to the NCC locos file as part a and b. Hope this helps. I love the description if the livery as "invisible green". Tops even some of the more silly names like "improved engine green".
The MRN article referred to was August 1965. There is also a comprehensive article in Railway World August 1986.
Laurence.

jghamill55@...
 

I believe that John Campbell built a number of 15mm scale S Class. He certainly has proper drawings if so. 

G HAMILTON
 

Hi,
John Campbell has completed one electric (gauge 1) S class so far and is still working on G1 live steam versions when I last spoke to him - one of which is for me :)
Regards
Gavin



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: jghamill55@...
Date: 13/01/2020 17:16 (GMT+00:00)
To: IrishThreeFoot@groups.io
Subject: Re: [IrishThreeFoot] NCC Class S and 4-4-2T locos

I believe that John Campbell built a number of 15mm scale S Class. He certainly has proper drawings if so.

Alan O'Rourke
 

Sorry if I have missed part of this thread; have been in the Canary isles...quelle hardship, no railways other than a very short modern urban tramway, but sunny, warm and good walking.

 

Mr Heaven’s drawings are of very variable quality, but certainly not in the same league as Des Coakham’s. Some look like they were drawn on the kitchen table with an O-level geometry set; some are more professional. I am not sure of his sources: possibly official weight, rather than GA type drawings. If you are going to use any of his as the basis for a model, I suggest you check carefully with photos and known dimensions.

 

Attach:

A rather small scale scan of the S2 from Fayle H (1946) Narrow Gauge Railways of Ireland London; Greenlake

 

Article from The Locomotive Nov 15th, 1932

 

The NCC weight diags of these engines (again, probably re-drawn after the Blitz) also appear in Bill Scott’s NCC Loco book.

 

Rgds Alan

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Laurence Wheeler
Sent: 12 January 2020 12:49
To: IrishThreeFoot@groups.io
Subject: Re: [IrishThreeFoot] NCC Class S and 4-4-2T locos

 

In a dusty file I have come across a drawing by B. Heaven of the S class compound. Somewhat in the mould of the famous Skinley drawings, but not as good.
I have uploaded two halves of this drawing to the NCC locos file as part a and b. Hope this helps. I love the description if the livery as "invisible green". Tops even some of the more silly names like "improved engine green".
The MRN article referred to was August 1965. There is also a comprehensive article in Railway World August 1986.
Laurence.