Did you see this?


Joseph Rome
 


Laurie Allai
 

Sure did. Why? Do you want one?

Laurie


On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 9:58 AM, Joseph Rome
<romejoseph9@...> wrote:


Joseph Rome
 

Not really, but this mount is a lot better than the CGX-L.  Has no PE to correct, will run the EDGE-11 without counterweights, very easy to polar align (laser)., carbon fiber tripod (light), runs through ASCOM as a Mead mount.
I would run the counterweight.  Very interesting mount.  I guess next we will see ASIZWO telescopes.

Joe

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 10:25 AM Laurie Allai via groups.io <momallai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Sure did. Why? Do you want one?

Laurie


On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 9:58 AM, Joseph Rome


John A. Sillasen
 

Joseph if you get one of these AZIZWO mounts, it would be super interesting to somehow compare it as 1st generation to the seasoned Rainbow Astro RST-135E (the one with the Reninshaw Encoders on the RA axis.

If course the price difference is more like ZWO vs. Fingerlakes FLI but still,  quite curious as to how it behaves.

John A. Sillasen



-------- Original message --------
From: Joseph Rome <romejoseph9@...>
Date: 12/28/21 4:56 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: ImagesPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ImagesPlus] Did you see this?

Not really, but this mount is a lot better than the CGX-L.  Has no PE to correct, will run the EDGE-11 without counterweights, very easy to polar align (laser)., carbon fiber tripod (light), runs through ASCOM as a Mead mount.
I would run the counterweight.  Very interesting mount.  I guess next we will see ASIZWO telescopes.

Joe

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 10:25 AM Laurie Allai via groups.io <momallai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Sure did. Why? Do you want one?

Laurie


On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 9:58 AM, Joseph Rome


Christopher Erickson
 

I ordered the ZWO mount. I will compare it to my RST-135E and Mach1.

ZWO took my money immediately. Shipping promised in April.

There is a new ZWO-astro group on groups.io.

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   


On Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:17 PM John A. Sillasen <jasillasen@...> wrote:
Joseph if you get one of these AZIZWO mounts, it would be super interesting to somehow compare it as 1st generation to the seasoned Rainbow Astro RST-135E (the one with the Reninshaw Encoders on the RA axis.

If course the price difference is more like ZWO vs. Fingerlakes FLI but still,  quite curious as to how it behaves.

John A. Sillasen



-------- Original message --------
From: Joseph Rome <romejoseph9@...>
Date: 12/28/21 4:56 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [ImagesPlus] Did you see this?

Not really, but this mount is a lot better than the CGX-L.  Has no PE to correct, will run the EDGE-11 without counterweights, very easy to polar align (laser)., carbon fiber tripod (light), runs through ASCOM as a Mead mount.
I would run the counterweight.  Very interesting mount.  I guess next we will see ASIZWO telescopes.

Joe

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 10:25 AM Laurie Allai via groups.io <momallai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Sure did. Why? Do you want one?

Laurie


On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 9:58 AM, Joseph Rome


Christopher Erickson
 

Using the Meade protocol is a double-edged sword. The classic Meade command set is rather primitive and doesn't address GEM mount nuances, like meridian flip.

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:48 PM Christopher Erickson via groups.io <christopher.k.erickson=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

I ordered the ZWO mount. I will compare it to my RST-135E and Mach1.

ZWO took my money immediately. Shipping promised in April.

There is a new ZWO-astro group on groups.io.

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:17 PM John A. Sillasen <jasillasen@...> wrote:
Joseph if you get one of these AZIZWO mounts, it would be super interesting to somehow compare it as 1st generation to the seasoned Rainbow Astro RST-135E (the one with the Reninshaw Encoders on the RA axis.

If course the price difference is more like ZWO vs. Fingerlakes FLI but still,  quite curious as to how it behaves.

John A. Sillasen



-------- Original message --------
From: Joseph Rome <romejoseph9@...>
Date: 12/28/21 4:56 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [ImagesPlus] Did you see this?

Not really, but this mount is a lot better than the CGX-L.  Has no PE to correct, will run the EDGE-11 without counterweights, very easy to polar align (laser)., carbon fiber tripod (light), runs through ASCOM as a Mead mount.
I would run the counterweight.  Very interesting mount.  I guess next we will see ASIZWO telescopes.

Joe

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 10:25 AM Laurie Allai via groups.io <momallai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Sure did. Why? Do you want one?

Laurie


On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 9:58 AM, Joseph Rome


John A. Sillasen
 

That's dedication to product testing,.Chris. I appreciate your tests and financial ability to do such product comparisons. 



John A. Sillasen



-------- Original message --------
From: Christopher Erickson <christopher.k.erickson@...>
Date: 12/28/21 5:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: ImagesPlus@groups.io
Subject: Re: [ImagesPlus] Did you see this?

I ordered the ZWO mount. I will compare it to my RST-135E and Mach1.

ZWO took my money immediately. Shipping promised in April.

There is a new ZWO-astro group on groups.io.

-Christopher Erickson
Observatory engineer
Waikoloa, HI 96738
www.summitkinetics.com
   

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021, 2:17 PM John A. Sillasen <jasillasen@...> wrote:
Joseph if you get one of these AZIZWO mounts, it would be super interesting to somehow compare it as 1st generation to the seasoned Rainbow Astro RST-135E (the one with the Reninshaw Encoders on the RA axis.

If course the price difference is more like ZWO vs. Fingerlakes FLI but still,  quite curious as to how it behaves.

John A. Sillasen



-------- Original message --------
From: Joseph Rome <romejoseph9@...>
Date: 12/28/21 4:56 PM (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [ImagesPlus] Did you see this?

Not really, but this mount is a lot better than the CGX-L.  Has no PE to correct, will run the EDGE-11 without counterweights, very easy to polar align (laser)., carbon fiber tripod (light), runs through ASCOM as a Mead mount.
I would run the counterweight.  Very interesting mount.  I guess next we will see ASIZWO telescopes.

Joe

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 10:25 AM Laurie Allai via groups.io <momallai=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Sure did. Why? Do you want one?

Laurie


On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 9:58 AM, Joseph Rome


John Schnupp
 

ZWO and Pegasus are simply the latest, the first one I saw was Rainbow Astro RST-135, HOYBM is another, there are probably others that I am not aware of.  All of these mounts are based on strain wave gear (aka harmonic drive). Here are two videos showing the operation and theory of strain wave/harmonic drive.

This is not a new technology.  I have been working in semiconductor manufacturing as an equipment engineer for nearly 35 years.  Almost all of our equipment is driven with harmonic drives and can accurately and repeatedly position equipment with sub-micron/nanometer precision.  Harmonic drive have large gear reduction ratios and can develop lots of torque and can handle large load imbalances.  There is also zero backlash.  All great, I've often wondered why they were not use in astro gear.  

One of the biggest detractors for use in amateur astronomy gear is the price.  Harmonic drives are more expensive than standard worm drives.  Harmonic drives tend to creep if the load is unbalanced and the power is turned off, this requires brake hardware so that the mount does not lose position when turned off.  Finally, the elephant in the room is periodic error.  Harmonic drive have multiple rotating parts, and due to the high gear ratios the same areas gears do not repeatedly engage.  Harmonic drive mount will most certainly need to be guided for best results.  Here is a link to ZWO showing two PE graphs, the full graph is based on the output making one revolution and the single graph is based on the input making a single revolution.  At nearly 20arc-sec error it is not that great, but as the single graph shows, it is relatively slow changing and should be able to be guided out.  It seems counter-intuitive but best guiding come from using very short, <1sec, exposures.  High sensitivity, low noise sensors in guide cams are part of the success of these drives. 
https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/wp-content/uploads/AM5_04.jpg  

I would also be very wary about the claims that you can use a carbon fiber tripod.  One of the heavy duty carbon fiber tripods used for standard photography may work for a light load like a DSLR and lens, or a small telescope in the 50-80mm aperture range.  But I would not want to put a C8 EdgeHD on anything but an astronomical tripod.  I do see that ZWO has carbon fiber mount estimated for Arril 2022, https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/zwo-tc40-carbon-fiber-pipe-tripod. This mount appears to have substantial tube diameter legs 36-40mm (1.5" range), at only 18-30" of height it should be stable but the low height may make it a bit awkward.  The AM5 does show a GLP option so that should help make initial polar alignment easy.

Buried in the description, ZWO shows an image at 200% zoom and mentions that at 900mm focal length this is about the limit for the mount.  The don't recommend longer focal lengths.  It's sort of deceptive advertising.  They show/mention a C11 on the mount, but that scope FL far exceeds the ability of the AM5 (unless using hyperstar but that is not what they show).  The 130 APO shown is 920mm, which also exceeds the mount recommendation but not by much. Nevertheless, I'm sure there will be people who are able to get decent images with a C8/9.25/11 at the native f/10 or reduced f/7.  https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/wp-content/uploads/AM5_05.jpg

Overall, I see this (and other harmonic drive) mount being good option for medium and short focal length scopes.  I think with ZWO getting into harmonic drive mounts, this will popularize this type mount and it will benefit the other manufactures as well.   


John Schnupp, N3CNL
2007 R1200RT 67,550 (hibernation)
1995 XLH 1200 106,495 (retired)
Georgia, VT
44.7675°N, 73.1592°


 



Geof Lewis
 

John,
Thanks for the write up and the 2 YT links. I didn't know anything about strain wave/harmonic gears before your post, but can know see how they could be a good, backlash free solution for telescope mounts. It's also interesting to note that they will require guiding, as the type of mechanical errors experienced are not easily corrected by PEC.
It will be interesting to see how the market for these develops.
Cheers,

Geof

From: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io> on behalf of John Schnupp via groups.io <johnschnupp@...>
Sent: 29 December 2021 19:39
To: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ImagesPlus] Did you see this?
 

ZWO and Pegasus are simply the latest, the first one I saw was Rainbow Astro RST-135, HOYBM is another, there are probably others that I am not aware of.  All of these mounts are based on strain wave gear (aka harmonic drive). Here are two videos showing the operation and theory of strain wave/harmonic drive.

This is not a new technology.  I have been working in semiconductor manufacturing as an equipment engineer for nearly 35 years.  Almost all of our equipment is driven with harmonic drives and can accurately and repeatedly position equipment with sub-micron/nanometer precision.  Harmonic drive have large gear reduction ratios and can develop lots of torque and can handle large load imbalances.  There is also zero backlash.  All great, I've often wondered why they were not use in astro gear.  

One of the biggest detractors for use in amateur astronomy gear is the price.  Harmonic drives are more expensive than standard worm drives.  Harmonic drives tend to creep if the load is unbalanced and the power is turned off, this requires brake hardware so that the mount does not lose position when turned off.  Finally, the elephant in the room is periodic error.  Harmonic drive have multiple rotating parts, and due to the high gear ratios the same areas gears do not repeatedly engage.  Harmonic drive mount will most certainly need to be guided for best results.  Here is a link to ZWO showing two PE graphs, the full graph is based on the output making one revolution and the single graph is based on the input making a single revolution.  At nearly 20arc-sec error it is not that great, but as the single graph shows, it is relatively slow changing and should be able to be guided out.  It seems counter-intuitive but best guiding come from using very short, <1sec, exposures.  High sensitivity, low noise sensors in guide cams are part of the success of these drives. 
https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/wp-content/uploads/AM5_04.jpg  

I would also be very wary about the claims that you can use a carbon fiber tripod.  One of the heavy duty carbon fiber tripods used for standard photography may work for a light load like a DSLR and lens, or a small telescope in the 50-80mm aperture range.  But I would not want to put a C8 EdgeHD on anything but an astronomical tripod.  I do see that ZWO has carbon fiber mount estimated for Arril 2022, https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/zwo-tc40-carbon-fiber-pipe-tripod. This mount appears to have substantial tube diameter legs 36-40mm (1.5" range), at only 18-30" of height it should be stable but the low height may make it a bit awkward.  The AM5 does show a GLP option so that should help make initial polar alignment easy.

Buried in the description, ZWO shows an image at 200% zoom and mentions that at 900mm focal length this is about the limit for the mount.  The don't recommend longer focal lengths.  It's sort of deceptive advertising.  They show/mention a C11 on the mount, but that scope FL far exceeds the ability of the AM5 (unless using hyperstar but that is not what they show).  The 130 APO shown is 920mm, which also exceeds the mount recommendation but not by much. Nevertheless, I'm sure there will be people who are able to get decent images with a C8/9.25/11 at the native f/10 or reduced f/7.  https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/wp-content/uploads/AM5_05.jpg

Overall, I see this (and other harmonic drive) mount being good option for medium and short focal length scopes.  I think with ZWO getting into harmonic drive mounts, this will popularize this type mount and it will benefit the other manufactures as well.   


John Schnupp, N3CNL
2007 R1200RT 67,550 (hibernation)
1995 XLH 1200 106,495 (retired)
Georgia, VT
44.7675°N, 73.1592°


 



John Schnupp
 

Geof,

ZWO has come a long way in the 10 years or so that they have been making astro imaging cameras.
They really elevated the CMOS sensor cameras.  Their ASIAir was also a game changer (although I don't have one).
Hopefully they will be able to do the same for there harmonic drive mounts.  I can see these mounts being a game changer for portable use.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
2007 R1200RT 67,550 (hibernation)
1995 XLH 1200 106,495 (retired)
Georgia, VT
44.7675°N, 73.1592°

 


Geof Lewis
 

Thanks John,
I’ve got a couple of excellent ASI cameras that I use for planetary, lunar and solar imaging. I’ve read good things about the ASIAir, but also that it only works with ASI cameras, so that kills it as a solution for me. I also wasn’t impressed that they effectively stole a lot of the open source PHD2 product, made a few modifications then badged it as their own, without even changing the PHD2 heading on a lot of the output. I keep seeing the PHD2 developers quite rightly batting away requests for diagnostic help on the Open PHD2 forum, from ASIAir users, who are using the ZWO cloned version of PHD2.
Cheers,

Geof

From: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io> on behalf of John Schnupp via groups.io <johnschnupp@...>
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2021 10:48:22 AM
To: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ImagesPlus] Did you see this?
 
Geof,

ZWO has come a long way in the 10 years or so that they have been making astro imaging cameras.
They really elevated the CMOS sensor cameras.  Their ASIAir was also a game changer (although I don't have one).
Hopefully they will be able to do the same for there harmonic drive mounts.  I can see these mounts being a game changer for portable use.

John Schnupp, N3CNL
2007 R1200RT 67,550 (hibernation)
1995 XLH 1200 106,495 (retired)
Georgia, VT
44.7675°N, 73.1592°

 


Ernest Adams
 

Hi Joe,

I'm trying to change my subscription but I don't seem to be a member. Altho, I seem to get all messages..

Any thoughts?

Ernest

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 9:58 AM Joseph Rome <romejoseph9@...> wrote:


Geof Lewis
 

Hi Earnest,
I got your message via email and checked the group web page and it’s posted there too, so I think you must be a member. Why do you think that you’re not a member, how are you trying to log in?
Regards, Geof

From: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io> on behalf of Ernest Adams <edadams2@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 4:05:36 PM
To: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ImagesPlus] Did you see this?
 
Hi Joe,

I'm trying to change my subscription but I don't seem to be a member. Altho, I seem to get all messages..

Any thoughts?

Ernest

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 9:58 AM Joseph Rome <romejoseph9@...> wrote:


Ernest Adams
 

I"m unable to jump to the group to accessfiles , photos, etc. imagesplus is not listed as one of my groups, and I don't seem to have a login. but I vaguely remember joining?

Ernest

On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 10:14 AM Geof Lewis <geoflewis@...> wrote:
Hi Earnest,
I got your message via email and checked the group web page and it’s posted there too, so I think you must be a member. Why do you think that you’re not a member, how are you trying to log in?
Regards, Geof

From: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io> on behalf of Ernest Adams <edadams2@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 4:05:36 PM
To: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ImagesPlus] Did you see this?
 
Hi Joe,

I'm trying to change my subscription but I don't seem to be a member. Altho, I seem to get all messages..

Any thoughts?

Ernest

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 9:58 AM Joseph Rome <romejoseph9@...> wrote:


Geof Lewis
 

Hi Earnest,
So, it’s not a group.io access problem, just the ImagesPlus group? Have you tried emailing Mike Unsold to see if he can reset your group membership password? I don’t know if he’ll be able to do anything, or how quickly he’d respond, but it’s worth a try.
Good luck,

Geof

From: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io> on behalf of Ernest Adams <edadams2@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2022 6:48:49 PM
To: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ImagesPlus] Did you see this?
 
I"m unable to jump to the group to accessfiles , photos, etc. imagesplus is not listed as one of my groups, and I don't seem to have a login. but I vaguely remember joining?

Ernest

On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 10:14 AM Geof Lewis <geoflewis@...> wrote:

Hi Earnest,
I got your message via email and checked the group web page and it’s posted there too, so I think you must be a member. Why do you think that you’re not a member, how are you trying to log in?
Regards, Geof

From: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io> on behalf of Ernest Adams <edadams2@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 4:05:36 PM
To: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ImagesPlus] Did you see this?
 
Hi Joe,

I'm trying to change my subscription but I don't seem to be a member. Altho, I seem to get all messages..

Any thoughts?

Ernest

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 9:58 AM Joseph Rome <romejoseph9@...> wrote:


Ernest Adams
 

He doesn't respond to anyone for many years now. I'll try the group administrator. And perhaps Rick Burke.
Thanks !
Ernest

On Sat, Jul 16, 2022 at 1:21 PM Geof Lewis <geoflewis@...> wrote:
Hi Earnest,
So, it’s not a group.io access problem, just the ImagesPlus group? Have you tried emailing Mike Unsold to see if he can reset your group membership password? I don’t know if he’ll be able to do anything, or how quickly he’d respond, but it’s worth a try.
Good luck,

Geof

From: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io> on behalf of Ernest Adams <edadams2@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 16, 2022 6:48:49 PM
To: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ImagesPlus] Did you see this?
 
I"m unable to jump to the group to accessfiles , photos, etc. imagesplus is not listed as one of my groups, and I don't seem to have a login. but I vaguely remember joining?

Ernest

On Thu, Jul 14, 2022 at 10:14 AM Geof Lewis <geoflewis@...> wrote:
Hi Earnest,
I got your message via email and checked the group web page and it’s posted there too, so I think you must be a member. Why do you think that you’re not a member, how are you trying to log in?
Regards, Geof

From: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io> on behalf of Ernest Adams <edadams2@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2022 4:05:36 PM
To: ImagesPlus@groups.io <ImagesPlus@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [ImagesPlus] Did you see this?
 
Hi Joe,

I'm trying to change my subscription but I don't seem to be a member. Altho, I seem to get all messages..

Any thoughts?

Ernest

On Tue, Dec 28, 2021 at 9:58 AM Joseph Rome <romejoseph9@...> wrote: