Topics

Wye Turnout


Robert Herrick
 

I'm in need of one Wye turnout. I've used Fast Tracks jigs for years, but I have a hard time justifying investing in a jig for one turnout (but you do what you gotta do). Not interested in handlaying so my options appear to be BK or Railway Engineering. I have no experience with BK and my link to Railway Engineering no longer works. Need some advice.

Thanks!

Bob Herrick


Mark Kasprowicz
 

I have the same problem with a crossing which I'll probably try making using one of their downloadable templates. I would have thought you could still use the Pointform and Stockaid should you try the same route. It's a real shame FastTracks don't hire their jigs out for people making one offs. 

Mark K
Oxon England,


lloyd lehrer
 

Bob, since you have the jig, just make half the right and half the left on the same ties and you will have a wye.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020, 8:15 AM Robert Herrick <rdherrick@...> wrote:
I'm in need of one Wye turnout. I've used Fast Tracks jigs for years, but I have a hard time justifying investing in a jig for one turnout (but you do what you gotta do). Not interested in handlaying so my options appear to be BK or Railway Engineering. I have no experience with BK and my link to Railway Engineering no longer works. Need some advice.

Thanks!

Bob Herrick


--
lloyd lehrer


Wayne
 

You are looking for Shinohara 669-493 HOn3.  Harris Hobbies stocks them but are currently out.  They appear on eBay from time to time.  Jamestown Hobbies will make you one for about $35

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 9:15 AM Robert Herrick <rdherrick@...> wrote:
I'm in need of one Wye turnout. I've used Fast Tracks jigs for years, but I have a hard time justifying investing in a jig for one turnout (but you do what you gotta do). Not interested in handlaying so my options appear to be BK or Railway Engineering. I have no experience with BK and my link to Railway Engineering no longer works. Need some advice.

Thanks!

Bob Herrick



--
Wayne Taylor


Alan Kilby
 

The BK turnouts I got were on a skeleton loosely gauged that required spiking and gauging,they may have them gauged on ties.The quality of components were good but wait time excessive(3 months) and they were wrong turnouts when I got them first time.I would make sure to send description of what you want ,make sure they have order straight,talk to real live person if possible,I got 2 lefts instead of rights and they were code 83 not 70,get a time of when you will get turnout.When I talked with them on phone to tell them I got wrong order they were very accommodating and replaced them without question.This was 14 years ago so things have likely changed.
 Railway engineering website is currently down as he's building layout.
Alan


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Robert Herrick <rdherrick@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 8:15:50 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] Wye Turnout
 
I'm in need of one Wye turnout. I've used Fast Tracks jigs for years, but I have a hard time justifying investing in a jig for one turnout (but you do what you gotta do). Not interested in handlaying so my options appear to be BK or Railway Engineering. I have no experience with BK and my link to Railway Engineering no longer works. Need some advice.

Thanks!

Bob Herrick


Wayne
 

Colorado Narrow Gauge has several code 55 and code 70 in stock now.  https://www.narrowgaugecolorado.com/?name=Catalog&mode=d&id=008

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 9:48 AM Alan Kilby <alankilby@...> wrote:
The BK turnouts I got were on a skeleton loosely gauged that required spiking and gauging,they may have them gauged on ties.The quality of components were good but wait time excessive(3 months) and they were wrong turnouts when I got them first time.I would make sure to send description of what you want ,make sure they have order straight,talk to real live person if possible,I got 2 lefts instead of rights and they were code 83 not 70,get a time of when you will get turnout.When I talked with them on phone to tell them I got wrong order they were very accommodating and replaced them without question.This was 14 years ago so things have likely changed.
 Railway engineering website is currently down as he's building layout.
Alan

From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Robert Herrick <rdherrick@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 8, 2020 8:15:50 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] Wye Turnout
 
I'm in need of one Wye turnout. I've used Fast Tracks jigs for years, but I have a hard time justifying investing in a jig for one turnout (but you do what you gotta do). Not interested in handlaying so my options appear to be BK or Railway Engineering. I have no experience with BK and my link to Railway Engineering no longer works. Need some advice.

Thanks!

Bob Herrick



--
Wayne Taylor


cmdrwmriker
 

Hi Bob, I sent you a PM on this issue.
bill marshall

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Herrick <rdherrick@...>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Sun, 08 Nov 2020 11:15:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [HOn3] Wye Turnout

I'm in need of one Wye turnout. I've used Fast Tracks jigs for years, but I have a hard time justifying investing in a jig for one turnout (but you do what you gotta do). Not interested in handlaying so my options appear to be BK or Railway Engineering. I have no experience with BK and my link to Railway Engineering no longer works. Need some advice.

Thanks!

Bob Herrick





Jim Marlett
 

If you’ve used Fast Tracks jigs for years, you should really have no trouble building your own wyes. The only slightly tricky part is the frog. I build mine on the work bench, then spike them down on the layout. For the three wyes I built not that long ago, I filed the stock rails, points and frogs on the Fast Tracks devices for doing that, used the #6 jig that I had to form the guard rails, then  laid them out and spiked them down on a piece of cedar that had the radii, etc. drawn on. My old brass track gauges were used as well as an NMRA gauge. Rollie Holders can be used to hold things in place away from the soldering, but be careful – they melt (ask me how I know). I don’t like using circuit board ties, so I didn’t on my wyes. I do use a minimum number of circuit board ties on the switches I build in Fast Tracks jigs, but not all they call for.

Because the points are shorter on wyes, I hinge the points. My method is complex and insulates the point rails from the frog at the hinge and supplies current from below, but I won’t go into it here. There are a number of methods for hinging points, including the way shown in a video on the Fast Tracks web page.

Having point isolated from the closure rails gives me an advantage electrically. Because I use live frogs controlled by Frog Juicers, I don’t need the little short frogs electrically isolated from the rest of the track. My electrical gaps are where the points meet the closure rails and about an inch or so beyond the frog on the other end. This makes it much easier to spike the frog assembly in place, then just spike the rest of the rails where they need to be.

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Nov 8, 2020, at 10:15 AM, Robert Herrick <rdherrick@...> wrote:

I'm in need of one Wye turnout. I've used Fast Tracks jigs for years, but I have a hard time justifying investing in a jig for one turnout (but you do what you gotta do). Not interested in handlaying so my options appear to be BK or Railway Engineering. I have no experience with BK and my link to Railway Engineering no longer works. Need some advice.

Thanks!

Bob Herrick


Brian Kopp
 

Bought BK HOn3 and HOn30 stub wyes from Trout Creek this past spring. Lead times on the two orders were both 4-6 weeks. No issues.

I'm like you. I use Fast Track jigs but needed just two HOn30 wyes and one HOn3 wye.....

--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Ken Martin
 


On Nov 8, 2020, at 8:34 AM, Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:

I have the same problem with a crossing which I'll probably try making using one of their downloadable templates. 

Mark K
Oxon England,
_._,_._,_

How to make a crossing

Ken Martin




Jim Marlett
 

Again, I would suggest trying your hand at building one. I’m a ham-fisted idiot and I made three like this for a wye. One side is 26” radius and the other is 24” radius. 



Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Nov 8, 2020, at 2:16 PM, James Marlett <jmarlett@...> wrote:

If you’ve used Fast Tracks jigs for years, you should really have no trouble building your own wyes. The only slightly tricky part is the frog. I build mine on the work bench, then spike them down on the layout. For the three wyes I built not that long ago, I filed the stock rails, points and frogs on the Fast Tracks devices for doing that, used the #6 jig that I had to form the guard rails, then  laid them out and spiked them down on a piece of cedar that had the radii, etc. drawn on. My old brass track gauges were used as well as an NMRA gauge. Rollie Holders can be used to hold things in place away from the soldering, but be careful – they melt (ask me how I know). I don’t like using circuit board ties, so I didn’t on my wyes. I do use a minimum number of circuit board ties on the switches I build in Fast Tracks jigs, but not all they call for.

Because the points are shorter on wyes, I hinge the points. My method is complex and insulates the point rails from the frog at the hinge and supplies current from below, but I won’t go into it here. There are a number of methods for hinging points, including the way shown in a video on the Fast Tracks web page.

Having point isolated from the closure rails gives me an advantage electrically. Because I use live frogs controlled by Frog Juicers, I don’t need the little short frogs electrically isolated from the rest of the track. My electrical gaps are where the points meet the closure rails and about an inch or so beyond the frog on the other end. This makes it much easier to spike the frog assembly in place, then just spike the rest of the rails where they need to be.

On Nov 8, 2020, at 10:15 AM, Robert Herrick <rdherrick@...> wrote:

I'm in need of one Wye turnout. I've used Fast Tracks jigs for years, but I have a hard time justifying investing in a jig for one turnout (but you do what you gotta do). Not interested in handlaying so my options appear to be BK or Railway Engineering. I have no experience with BK and my link to Railway Engineering no longer works. Need some advice.

Thanks!

Bob Herrick



Climax@...
 

Are you saying you need to put a pile of rail out and then get a bunch of little people around it and leave it all over night, then it will turn into a crossing?  Me thinks it will probably take two or three nights.
DB

-----Original Message-----
From: "Ken Martin via groups.io"
Sent: Nov 8, 2020 11:57 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Wye Turnout


On Nov 8, 2020, at 8:34 AM, Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:

I have the same problem with a crossing which I'll probably try making using one of their downloadable templates. 

Mark K
Oxon England,


Jeff Young
 

I’ve never used the jigs, but I do use their form tools and then lay the turnout down on top of one of their printed patterns.

Most of my turnouts are on curves.  For these I just cut the printed pattern into 8 or 10 “slices”, tape them back together with slight overlap, and then photocopy it.



Here’s an example of one on a curve:



Crossings are indeed a lot more difficult because the heat keeps melting previous joints.  But I’m getting there:


Note the brass rollee holders.  They don’t melt. ;)

Cheers,
Jeff.



Dale Buxton
 

Robert,

I have a Fast Tracks #4 and a #6 HOn3 Wye jig. I found I needed both.

For my Fast Track Wye Jigs:

The radius of the curve between the points and the frog throat of my Fast Tracks #4 Wye jig is about 24"s

The radius of the curve between the points and the frog throat of my Fast Tracks #6 Wye jig is about 36"s

You can verify what I'm about to say here over at the NMRA Standards on line for turnouts. The geometry of a radius in the curved part of a regular turnout of any given turnout number is not the same as that of a concentric wye turnout of the same number. I don't know what makes the calculated differences in the two types of turnouts. I just know there is a difference. But, the legs of a Wye don't need to be of the same radius to work. Many radii are possible if everything lines up in the end.

I discovered how wide the radius of the #6 Wye was when I tried to use it and then put 20inch radius legs after the frog throat. I went from a 36" radius to about a half inch of straight through the frog throat to the 20" radius. Instant kink situation! And I needed a lot of space for the Wye legs and tail track.

Going with a #4 Wye and using an easement from down 24 to 20inch radius after the frog ended up working out much better. Perfect actually. It fits my space and works very smoothly even with a PFM Fuji K-37. These models are notorious for trailing truck derailment problems while negotiating rail kinks and while going through turnouts.  

So, do you have a Fast Tracks Frog Helper Jig. They come with 3 different frog sizes on each one. Starting with 3,4,5 and  then 5,6,8 to 7,8,9 to 8,10,12. If you have the smallest one, you should be able to use your standard Fast Tracks Jig to form the stock rails and then just use a radius template to get the radius right between the frog and points area. Then you can then use the radius that works best for you for the Wye's legs.

An old UP track laying specialist told me long ago that there was no such thing as a curve through a frog on the prototype. The geometry demands that only one lateral force be dealt with in the frog throat not 2. So the frog has to be arrow straight through the throat area if you want to work right.  

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Nov 8, 2020 at 9:15 AM Robert Herrick <rdherrick@...> wrote:
I'm in need of one Wye turnout. I've used Fast Tracks jigs for years, but I have a hard time justifying investing in a jig for one turnout (but you do what you gotta do). Not interested in handlaying so my options appear to be BK or Railway Engineering. I have no experience with BK and my link to Railway Engineering no longer works. Need some advice.

Thanks!

Bob Herrick


Jim Marlett
 

Did you make your own brass Rollee Holders?

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Nov 9, 2020, at 6:04 AM, Jeff Young <jeff@...> wrote:

Note the brass rollee holders.  They don’t melt. ;)

Cheers,
Jeff.




Climax@...
 

On occasion when I need a special rail fixture, turnout, gantlet track, crossing, or what ever, I have just stripped the flex track rail out of the ties and then place it where I want it, over lap the rails, mark it down after checking radii, and start cutting and soldering.  I use a broken piece of hacksaw blade to clean out the flange ways of excess solder and to make the frogs nice and sharp with no hiccups.  I first started using Jack Works articles on how to lay rail back in the early 1960's and it has worked great for me.  When I qualified for the Civil Engineering Merit Certificate in the MMR program I used a turn out, a gantlet track, and a gauge separation from the hard side with no moving parts on a grade change as well.  I could zing a set of trucks through any of the constructed rail fixtures and not even see a hop.  It was pleasing to see the dual gauge separation and see the correct truck go through the correct way.
I think the best way to encourage someone to do the hand laid rail is to just tell them to use common since and go for it.  What have you got to lose but a bit of rail?  I use to spike my rail, one on either side, every 7th tie.  Drilled a .020 hole on either side of the rail and inserted the spikes.
Electrically just use common since again.  I did most of mine on DC because I was using PFM SSII's. still got them but have switched over to NCE DCC now.  If it will work on DC it will work on DCC.
I tried the paper templates but always seemed to not be able to get all the tiny pieces of paper out from under the rail.  I did use a lot of eye ball gauges for keeping the rails straight and NMRA gauges to keep it in line.
My tie technique was laying out a 36 inch piece of 1x2 with ties glued to it.  All I would do is slip ties between those and put a piece of masking tape on it and them pull it up, smear glue where I wanted the road bed to be and place the ties in it.  A few prods and pokes, visual checks, let it dry, sand it, stain it, and it was ready to lay rail on.  Never fails me.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Young
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 7:04 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Wye Turnout

I’ve never used the jigs, but I do use their form tools and then lay the turnout down on top of one of their printed patterns.

Most of my turnouts are on curves.  For these I just cut the printed pattern into 8 or 10 “slices”, tape them back together with slight overlap, and then photocopy it.



Here’s an example of one on a curve:



Crossings are indeed a lot more difficult because the heat keeps melting previous joints.  But I’m getting there:


Note the brass rollee holders.  They don’t melt. ;)

Cheers,
Jeff.



Russ Norris
 

I just use the Shinohara #3 wye -- got two of 'em on my layout.  If you shop around you can still occasionally find them on eBay.

Russ

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 6:36 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
Are you saying you need to put a pile of rail out and then get a bunch of little people around it and leave it all over night, then it will turn into a crossing?  Me thinks it will probably take two or three nights.
DB

-----Original Message-----
From: "Ken Martin via groups.io"
Sent: Nov 8, 2020 11:57 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Wye Turnout


On Nov 8, 2020, at 8:34 AM, Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:

I have the same problem with a crossing which I'll probably try making using one of their downloadable templates. 

Mark K
Oxon England,


--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


Robert Herrick
 

Thanks, everyone, for weighing in. A lot to think about here, but I'm sure many of these suggestions will help me accomplish the task. What a great forum!

Bob Herrick


Jeff Young
 

Nope; those are from Steve as well as my standard (Lucite?) ones.

On 9 Nov 2020, at 12:44, Jim Marlett <jmarlett@...> wrote:

Did you make your own brass Rollee Holders?


Mick Moignard
 

Dale

While your UP guy is I’m sure entirely correct about track standards in the US, both tracks thru the crossing must be straight, here in the UK we allow one or sometimes both tracks in the crossing to be curved.  Take a look at any photo of UK  track and you’ll see that.  And it does work.

Mick

________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.