Tarp color


Mark Kasprowicz
 

 What were common tarp colors in the 30's and 40's.

Mark K


Rick Rhode <rvrhode@...>
 

From what I have seen in old photos (unfortunately black and white) tarps were light in color (new canvas would be a cream color, old canvas would be weathered to a light to dark grey).  In the 40's, a lot of tarps were olive drab because of their use by the military.

On Saturday, February 13, 2021, 11:34:34 AM EST, Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:


 What were common tarp colors in the 30's and 40's.

Mark K


Scott Baker
 

Rick,
That is an interesting point about the tarps being olive drab toward the end of the 40's, I'm assuming there was a lot of military surplus after WW II. 


Mark Kasprowicz
 

I read somewhere that D&RGW works equipment was painted grey because US Navy paint was availavle cheaply due to overstock?

Mark K


John Stutz
 

On February 13, 2021 8:34 AM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:   What were common tarp colors in the 30's and 40's.
Mark

I think this is a matter of both initial treatment and history of the individual piece of canvas.   As Rick mentioned, raw untreated canvas, typically sailcloth, goes from cream to a grey over time.  Bleached canvas goes from white to grey.  Dyed canvas probably greys more slowly, but still accumulates dust and mud.   Waterproofed canvas in this time frame would have been treated with linseed oil, the binder used in oil paints.  With commercial grade oils, this adds a bit of pale yellow to the canvas, but it also alters the reflective properties, adding a sheen when new, that disappears over time where the the canvas is frequently folded or chafed, and as it weathers toward a grey.  Painted canvas tarps behave similarly.  The painted canvas once used to waterproof passenger car roofs was constantly bombarded by cinders that both erode it and add grey pigment.  Tarred canvas will start black before going to a grey.

The end point grey is partially a matter of UV light darkening the canvas fibers, but mostly one of pigments accumulated from a dusty and dirty environment.  Use outdoors in a steam era railroad environment ensures plenty of smoke exposure, as well as cinder erosion.  Minimal or no ballast on the railroad ensures plentiful exposure to the local dust, and to mud pumped up by poorly bedded ties.  Around railroads there will be frequent exposure to iron dust from brake shoes, which quickly goes to rust.  Rain not only washes off dust and mud, but also washes the finer particles in.  And the covered commodity may make a contribution.  So the basic grey is tinted by a variety of sources. With old canvas, no two pieces are precisely the same shade, and any one may vary over its extent.

The current continental average RR dust/mud/exhaust tint is close to Trailer Train yellow.  Sufficiently so that accumulations can almost completely obscure TT car data fields, without significantly altering the car's body color.  The steam era RR tint was considerably darker, although well short of black, and somewhat redder due to universal use of cast iron brake shoes.  And there will be local variations. For instance, Colorado dust may be greyer than the continental average.

Regarding use of tarps on North American railroads, I am at a loss for examples of such in ordinary train service.  I think their use was limited to extraordinary loads, ones that required protection from weather but were too large to go into a box car.  As such, the tarps were probably regarded as part of the dunnage, intended to be used for the single shipment and then discarded.  Or possibly going to the consignee, as part of the shipment.  I am not aware of any use comparable to the way that British railroads regularly provided company owned tarps to cover open loads, but cannot rule out limited local use.

John Stutz
On February 13, 2021 8:34 AM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:


 What were common tarp colors in the 30's and 40's.

Mark K


Bill Nelson
 

am  building  an  RC  sailing ship  with  a  fine  cotton bedsheets  material  for  a  sail.. soaking  them in coffee is  giving  me  a  beautiful canvas look.

On Feb 13, 2021, at 10:34 AM, Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:

 What were common tarp colors in the 30's and 40's.

Mark K


Dale Buxton
 

If you are talking about cab curtains. These were made of an extremely heavy weight canvas or duck. Cab curtains would accumulate soot rather quickly. I have a couple of U.S. Mail bags from the 1930's and my Grandfather's seamans bag from the 1920's. This canvas is so thick that it barely folds! All of them are a shade of very pale grey. There is a name for this material that I can't remember at the moment. As a kid, at harvest time, I used to see long grain trailers with a tarp covering the entire length of the open top trailer. Photo evidence shows that this practice goes back to the horse and wagon era. I've only ever seen photos on the narrow gauges of flatcar loads with tarps on them. All of the B&W photos of tarps on trains and wagons I've ever seen seem to suggest an un-dyed canvas. So very pale cream or very pale grey.   
Humbrol used to make two great colors called "Linen" and "Unbleached Linen" I still have a couple of tins left of both.

Dale Buxton

On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 9:34 AM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:
 What were common tarp colors in the 30's and 40's.

Mark K


Ernie Barney
 

Shown in a color photo is an example of tarp covered cars in use on the DRGW in 1940. There are 2 in this Chili Line train (second and third back from engine 475). The train is shown south of Antonito Colo. The cars carried new automobiles destined for Espanola, NM automobile dealers. https://groups.io/g/TheSantaFeBranchChiliLine/topic/25697997#919
scan0003.jpg

image.pngHere is another photo in the Dorman collection of cars in yard at Chama. Note loaded autos.
RD059-027.jpg
RD059-027


Ernie Barney
 

Has anyone built models of these 6200 series flat cars? 


Art D3
 

Ernie, I just recently finished my first 6200 series flat car. 3D printed car body with added brake hardware, grabs, etc. Designed to accept Kadee 705 couplers hidden in the draft gear. I'm using some Blackstone UTLX arch bar trucks that are fairly close in appearance and wheel base to the prototype.

I plan on building several, hence the reason for CAD and 3D printing. I have a couple of 6500 cars with the auto covers that I'm finishing, so I think all of my 6200 cars will be for general service.


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Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Mark Lewis
 

Art,

Great looking build. Are you going to make the 3D prints available for sale?

Mark Lewis
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 8:22 PM Art D3 <apdutra3@...> wrote:
Ernie, I just recently finished my first 6200 series flat car. 3D printed car body with added brake hardware, grabs, etc. Designed to accept Kadee 705 couplers hidden in the draft gear. I'm using some Blackstone UTLX arch bar trucks that are fairly close in appearance and wheel base to the prototype.

I plan on building several, hence the reason for CAD and 3D printing. I have a couple of 6500 cars with the auto covers that I'm finishing, so I think all of my 6200 cars will be for general service.


--
Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Ernie Barney
 

Art, I would be interested in buying a couple of the 6200s if you choose to sell them.  Great work. Looking forward to seeing the other covered flats when you complete them.  On my ever expanding to-do list!


Bill Lugg
 

What are you printing them on?

Thanks
Bill Lugg

On 2/13/21 6:22 PM, Art D3 wrote:
Ernie, I just recently finished my first 6200 series flat car. 3D printed car body with added brake hardware, grabs, etc. Designed to accept Kadee 705 couplers hidden in the draft gear. I'm using some Blackstone UTLX arch bar trucks that are fairly close in appearance and wheel base to the prototype.

I plan on building several, hence the reason for CAD and 3D printing. I have a couple of 6500 cars with the auto covers that I'm finishing, so I think all of my 6200 cars will be for general service.


--
Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Mark Kasprowicz
 

Many thanks for all the information. I think it going to be something light grey. It's not cab curtains (I hope the new owner of RGM will consider restoring the HOn3 cast curtain to the range!), it's the ongoing self drive Goose 6 project. I get these 'what if..' moments in the middle of the night and some part of the project gets modified. So it's taking longer that it should...much longer. What I'm trying to do is disguise the Con Cor gear tower and motor which rises from the centre of the 6's open deck. I've already used the stacked ties idea for the decoder, so I thought a tarp might work ... unless someone can offer an alternative solution.
Good news is that it runs perfectly in both directions on DC. The DCCification is stirring up some grey cells that haven't been used in eons. But it will get done.

Thanks again.
Mark K


Rick Rhode <rvrhode@...>
 

Sounds like a plan! Show a few pics when it's done.

On Sunday, February 14, 2021, 12:29:48 PM EST, Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:


Many thanks for all the information. I think it going to be something light grey. It's not cab curtains (I hope the new owner of RGM will consider restoring the HOn3 cast curtain to the range!), it's the ongoing self drive Goose 6 project. I get these 'what if..' moments in the middle of the night and some part of the project gets modified. So it's taking longer that it should...much longer. What I'm trying to do is disguise the Con Cor gear tower and motor which rises from the centre of the 6's open deck. I've already used the stacked ties idea for the decoder, so I thought a tarp might work ... unless someone can offer an alternative solution.
Good news is that it runs perfectly in both directions on DC. The DCCification is stirring up some grey cells that haven't been used in eons. But it will get done.

Thanks again.
Mark K


Art D3
 

Bill,

My test prints and this car were printed on my Photon S, but it is a 14 hour print. It took less time to add all the details, paint and decal the car. Also with the print time being that long, I've lost a few to power glitches and just print failures. A bigger print volume would greatly help. Something like the new Elegoo Saturn Pro would probably help greatly.
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Art Dutra
Meriden, CT


Brian Jansky
 

Hi Art,

I too, would be interested in a few of the 3D printed bodies. I hope this is helping encourage you to "do a run". The model looks fantastic! 

Thanks,
Brian
Houston, Tx