Super Glue aka CA


cmdrwmriker
 

Okay, my ignorance/experience/knowledge/ego is out there with this post.  I have a difficult time with CA.  I do not understand the various "types", if indeed there are multiple types; I do not know where to get a supply of the different types.  I do not know when to use what type.  I do not know how best to apply it.  I do not know the characteristics of the various types.  In a nutshell, "I know nothing!" (with appropriate apologies to Hogan's Heroes).  This is a small group so I decided to stick my neck out.  Can anyone give me a lesson in written form on "CA glue for Dummies?"
Thanks and yes, all barbs, arrows, zingers, cuts, etc are welcome.

Really, thank you I know someone out there can help me out.  

Oh, I was assembling some Kadee 714 couplers and finally decided some education may be in order.  
be cool
bill marshall


cmdrwmriker
 

ok, upon further review of my situation; I have the coupler assembled correctly in the Kadee jig.  I attempted twice to apply some CA from a small tube (3m Scotch Brand) using a small wire applicator; placing small amounts of CA directly on the 3 points at which the upper and lower draft gear housing come together.  Both times the adhesion failed.  Does CA go bad?  How do you know when it does if it does?  I will set everything aside until the cavalry (or Calvary) arrives.

----- Original Message -----
From: cmdrwmriker <banjobill@q.com>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Fri, 02 Apr 2021 12:27:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HOn3] Super Glue aka CA

Okay, my ignorance/experience/knowledge/ego is out there with this post.  I have a difficult time with CA.  I do not understand the various "types", if indeed there are multiple types; I do not know where to get a supply of the different types.  I do not know when to use what type.  I do not know how best to apply it.  I do not know the characteristics of the various types.  In a nutshell, "I know nothing!" (with appropriate apologies to Hogan's Heroes).  This is a small group so I decided to stick my neck out.  Can anyone give me a lesson in written form on "CA glue for Dummies?"
Thanks and yes, all barbs, arrows, zingers, cuts, etc are welcome.


Really, thank you I know someone out there can help me out.  


Oh, I was assembling some Kadee 714 couplers and finally decided some education may be in order.  
be cool
bill marshall




Eric Schrowang
 

Bill,
Here is what I have found / learned.
First not all CA is created equal, not scientific fact just my opinion, I personally use name brand like Jet and they have not failed me. If you use a med or gap filling CA they take longer to dry. The thin CA is instant set. One other fact I have learned use as little CA as possible. Believe it or not sometimes a pin drop is more than enough.

Hope this helps I sm sure others have good tips as well

Eric

On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, 12:27 PM cmdrwmriker <banjobill@q.com> wrote:

Okay, my ignorance/experience/knowledge/ego is out there with this post.  I have a difficult time with CA.  I do not understand the various "types", if indeed there are multiple types; I do not know where to get a supply of the different types.  I do not know when to use what type.  I do not know how best to apply it.  I do not know the characteristics of the various types.  In a nutshell, "I know nothing!" (with appropriate apologies to Hogan's Heroes).  This is a small group so I decided to stick my neck out.  Can anyone give me a lesson in written form on "CA glue for Dummies?"
Thanks and yes, all barbs, arrows, zingers, cuts, etc are welcome.

Really, thank you I know someone out there can help me out.  

Oh, I was assembling some Kadee 714 couplers and finally decided some education may be in order.  
be cool
bill marshall


Wayne
 

Here is a brochure I got from BSI Super Glues years ago.  Should fill in all your gaps.


--
Wayne Taylor


Don Ball
 

The assembly of the Kadee 714 coupler does not require any glue or adhesive. Use the tip of a hot soldering iron to touch the four joint points (two at rear and one on each side near the coupler end). The delrin plastic will fuse together and that's all that is needed to do. I've been putting 714s together for years using this method without any problem.

Don Ball

On Fri, Apr 2, 2021 at 11:49 AM cmdrwmriker <banjobill@q.com> wrote:
ok, upon further review of my situation; I have the coupler assembled correctly in the Kadee jig.  I attempted twice to apply some CA from a small tube (3m Scotch Brand) using a small wire applicator; placing small amounts of CA directly on the 3 points at which the upper and lower draft gear housing come together.  Both times the adhesion failed.  Does CA go bad?  How do you know when it does if it does?  I will set everything aside until the cavalry (or Calvary) arrives.

----- Original Message -----
From: cmdrwmriker <banjobill@q.com>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Fri, 02 Apr 2021 12:27:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HOn3] Super Glue aka CA

Okay, my ignorance/experience/knowledge/ego is out there with this post.  I have a difficult time with CA.  I do not understand the various "types", if indeed there are multiple types; I do not know where to get a supply of the different types.  I do not know when to use what type.  I do not know how best to apply it.  I do not know the characteristics of the various types.  In a nutshell, "I know nothing!" (with appropriate apologies to Hogan's Heroes).  This is a small group so I decided to stick my neck out.  Can anyone give me a lesson in written form on "CA glue for Dummies?"
Thanks and yes, all barbs, arrows, zingers, cuts, etc are welcome.


Really, thank you I know someone out there can help me out.  


Oh, I was assembling some Kadee 714 couplers and finally decided some education may be in order.  
be cool
bill marshall




Wayne
 

I started using KaDee couplers in 1977 and have never used any means of adhesion, chemical or heat, and have never had any trouble.  That is what the screw is for.  I have used CA in the screw hole a few times when the hole hole has worn itself slightly larger, but only to help secure the screw in place.


--
Wayne Taylor


Bill Lugg
 

In addition to what Eric mentions, CA does not work on engineering plastic (delrin), from which the Kadee couplers are manufactured. Don's solution is much better.

Actually, I found some great info on CA cement (and others too) here: The Great Guide to Gluing and Assembling 3D Prints <https://blog.prusaprinters.org/the-great-guide-to-gluing-and-assembling-3d-prints_44908/>.  It's focused on cementing large 3D prints together, but the general information is more widely applicable, I think.

HTH
Bill Lugg

On 4/2/21 10:54 AM, Eric Schrowang wrote:
Bill,
Here is what I have found / learned.
First not all CA is created equal, not scientific fact just my opinion, I personally use name brand like Jet and they have not failed me. If you use a med or gap filling CA they take longer to dry. The thin CA is instant set. One other fact I have learned use as little CA as possible. Believe it or not sometimes a pin drop is more than enough.

Hope this helps I sm sure others have good tips as well

Eric

On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, 12:27 PM cmdrwmriker <banjobill@q.com <mailto:banjobill@q.com>> wrote:

Okay, my ignorance/experience/knowledge/ego is out there with this
post.  I have a difficult time with CA.  I do not understand the
various "types", if indeed there are multiple types; I do not know
where to get a supply of the different types.  I do not know when
to use what type.  I do not know how best to apply it.  I do not
know the characteristics of the various types.  In a nutshell, "I
know nothing!" (with appropriate apologies to Hogan's Heroes). 
This is a small group so I decided to stick my neck out.  Can
anyone give me a lesson in written form on "CA glue for Dummies?"
Thanks and yes, all barbs, arrows, zingers, cuts, etc are welcome.

Really, thank you I know someone out there can help me out.

Oh, I was assembling some Kadee 714 couplers and finally decided
some education may be in order.
be cool
bill marshall


Don Peterson
 

To expand on Don's answer, The issue you are having is that the Kadees are made of Delrin plastic which cannot be glued with ACC. there is nothing wrong with your glue or technique.  Don's method is how you do it. 

Don Peterson

On Friday, April 2, 2021, 11:43:00 AM MDT, Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:


In addition to what Eric mentions, CA does not work on engineering
plastic (delrin), from which the Kadee couplers are manufactured. Don's
solution is much better.

Actually, I found some great info on CA cement (and others too) here:
The Great Guide to Gluing and Assembling 3D Prints
<https://blog.prusaprinters.org/the-great-guide-to-gluing-and-assembling-3d-prints_44908/>. 
It's focused on cementing large 3D prints together, but the general
information is more widely applicable, I think.

HTH
Bill Lugg


On 4/2/21 10:54 AM, Eric Schrowang wrote:
> Bill,
> Here is what I have found / learned.
> First not all CA is created equal, not scientific fact just my
> opinion, I personally use name brand like Jet and they have not failed
> me. If you use a med or gap filling CA they take longer to dry. The
> thin CA is instant set. One other fact I have learned use as little CA
> as possible. Believe it or not sometimes a pin drop is more than enough.
>
> Hope this helps I sm sure others have good tips as well
>
> Eric
>
> On Fri, Apr 2, 2021, 12:27 PM cmdrwmriker <banjobill@q.com
> <mailto:banjobill@q.com>> wrote:
>
>    Okay, my ignorance/experience/knowledge/ego is out there with this
>    post.  I have a difficult time with CA.  I do not understand the
>    various "types", if indeed there are multiple types; I do not know
>    where to get a supply of the different types.  I do not know when
>    to use what type.  I do not know how best to apply it.  I do not
>    know the characteristics of the various types.  In a nutshell, "I
>    know nothing!" (with appropriate apologies to Hogan's Heroes). 
>    This is a small group so I decided to stick my neck out.  Can
>    anyone give me a lesson in written form on "CA glue for Dummies?"
>    Thanks and yes, all barbs, arrows, zingers, cuts, etc are welcome.
>
>    Really, thank you I know someone out there can help me out.
>
>    Oh, I was assembling some Kadee 714 couplers and finally decided
>    some education may be in order.
>    be cool
>    bill marshall
>
>






cmdrwmriker
 

"Instructions!?...we don't need no stinkin' instructions!"  I am glad to hear about the soldering iron usage; I was about to do exactly that.  CA glue usage is indicated by the Kadee instructions for their #702 coupler assembly fixture.  Teach me to read.  Thank you for all the information, because my plea did not go just to the Kadee assembly, I have never had good success with CA on any project.  In fact, I dread trying to use it.  But, I "...shall endeavor to persevere."

I will admit, though, that I hesitate to corrupt my soldering iron tip-in fact, I will use an old iron I have-may even file a tip just for this purpose.  I heard back in 1964 and took to heart the idea that multi-purpose tools do not perform their supposed tasks as well as single purpose tools.  So, I choose not to corrupt my "good" soldering iron.  Thanks all!

----- Original Message -----
From: cmdrwmriker <banjobill@q.com>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Fri, 02 Apr 2021 12:27:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HOn3] Super Glue aka CA

Okay, my ignorance/experience/knowledge/ego is out there with this post.  I have a difficult time with CA.  I do not understand the various "types", if indeed there are multiple types; I do not know where to get a supply of the different types.  I do not know when to use what type.  I do not know how best to apply it.  I do not know the characteristics of the various types.  In a nutshell, "I know nothing!" (with appropriate apologies to Hogan's Heroes).  This is a small group so I decided to stick my neck out.  Can anyone give me a lesson in written form on "CA glue for Dummies?"
Thanks and yes, all barbs, arrows, zingers, cuts, etc are welcome.


Really, thank you I know someone out there can help me out.  


Oh, I was assembling some Kadee 714 couplers and finally decided some education may be in order.  
be cool
bill marshall




Keith Wiseman
 

Kadee coupler boxes are made from Delrin. ACC or CA glues will not stick to delrin. Best method is to assemble the coupler in the jig and use a pencil soldering iron at the 3 joint points (2 front and 1 rear)  and lightly melt the plastic together at those points.  That is how the factory assembles ones are done.     Keith


LARRY KLOSE
 

Here's a good primer on super glue, its uses, storage, etc. It's from a
musical instrument tool and repair site but it's good general knowledge.
https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas/online-resources/learn-about-repair-
tools-and-repair-techniques/stewart-macdonald-super-glues.html.
ACC products are generally the same, regardless of the label although the
stuff from discounters is sometimes of lower quality.

I get my super glue and a number of other tools from this company. Good
stuff, a lot is useful for model work as well as instrument repair.

Larry


cmdrwmriker
 

Here is a Chili Line consist complete with new Kadee soldering iron welded acetal plastic couplers (except for the Blackstone coach).

----- Original Message -----
From: cmdrwmriker <banjobill@q.com>
To: HOn3@groups.io
Sent: Fri, 02 Apr 2021 12:27:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [HOn3] Super Glue aka CA

Okay, my ignorance/experience/knowledge/ego is out there with this post.  I have a difficult time with CA.  I do not understand the various "types", if indeed there are multiple types; I do not know where to get a supply of the different types.  I do not know when to use what type.  I do not know how best to apply it.  I do not know the characteristics of the various types.  In a nutshell, "I know nothing!" (with appropriate apologies to Hogan's Heroes).  This is a small group so I decided to stick my neck out.  Can anyone give me a lesson in written form on "CA glue for Dummies?"
Thanks and yes, all barbs, arrows, zingers, cuts, etc are welcome.


Really, thank you I know someone out there can help me out.  


Oh, I was assembling some Kadee 714 couplers and finally decided some education may be in order.  
be cool
bill marshall




rick@...
 

Just heat a straight pin over a candle flame and it is enough to melt the plastic. Don't need to USE A SOLDERING IRON.

Rick

I will admit, though, that I hesitate to corrupt my soldering iron tip-in fact, I will use an old iron I have-may even file a tip just for this purpose


rick@...
 

Sorry, my pinky finger is always messing with the caps lock button. Ignore the emphasis. :o}

Rick

Just heat a straight pin over a candle flame and it is enough to melt the plastic. Don't need to USE A SOLDERING IRON.


Steve Hatch
 

  The Alphacyanoacrylate glues  were originally for gluing tissue together inside humans.
So naturally they stick to our fingers much better than any models.
Dewey AZ Steve


Climax@...
 

Actually l;it works great at gluing parts to our fingers or if you remove glue caps with you teeth, gluing the cap to your lip.  One very IMPOTRANT thing about that.....never put debonder on your lip to get it off, your lip will sell up to 2 to 3 times is normal size.  Gee, I wonder how I know that. hahahhaahah

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Hatch
Sent: Apr 2, 2021 10:02 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Super Glue aka CA

  The Alphacyanoacrylate glues  were originally for gluing tissue together inside humans.
So naturally they stick to our fingers much better than any models.
Dewey AZ Steve


Nigel Phillips
 

Hi Bill,

Comes in various types - thin, medium, thick, gel viscosity. This is generally is in order of setting time - fast, medium, slow, slower.  CA does not like lateral shear forces. CA also goes off quite quickly, especially if there is high humidity. Buy it in small quantities, and storing in the fridge after opening is recommended, keep out of reach of small hands. Accelerant is just alkaline water, breathing on the join works just as well. Even with thick or gel CA there is very little tack time, none with the thin type. Rule of thumb (for me) is thin for adding detail, medium for joints, thick or gel for wood. 

Make sure the surfaces are dust and grease free. For metal a wash in scent-free dishwashing liquid followed by some keying with 400-600 paper and a further rinse with hot water followed by a wipe with IPA when dry works for me. Wood can by iffy, use thick or gel, otherwise it soaks into the fibers too fast. Use plastic spring clamps for wood when possible. Use CA especially formulated for plastics or styrene foam. Otherwise you may just end up with holes. That said, a very small drop of fast CA usually does no damage. 

I have used CA to build white metal models and brass models (yes, it can replace solder), wooden models (bridges trestles, platforms), and have used it successfully with difficult plastics such as 3D prints where the polymer is inert. Keying the surfaces is essential with the latter.

Wear eye protection and gloves. Getting it off fingers is ok (use acetone), in the eyes means an expensive trip to the nearest medical emergency department. The fumes are dangerous. Do not use large quantities without a chemical respirator mask. 

One drop or thin layer on the surface or in the hole, hold together for the required time, let go. I use a bit of scrap P/B wire to apply a very small drop of thin when adding details to a model. Place a drop from the bottle on aluminum foil, dip the wire in that, not directly from the bottle.

I use Bob Smith Industries CA. There are many other suppliers. There is even one type with rubber in it which has a bit of flexibility.
 
Working with an already painted model will often generate a bloom. This is from the vapor. Use a small fan blowing across the work away from you. Otherwise it's a repaint.

Nigel


On Friday, April 2, 2021, cmdrwmriker <banjobill@q.com> wrote:

Okay, my ignorance/experience/knowledge/ego is out there with this post.  I have a difficult time with CA.  I do not understand the various "types", if indeed there are multiple types; I do not know where to get a supply of the different types.  I do not know when to use what type.  I do not know how best to apply it.  I do not know the characteristics of the various types.  In a nutshell, "I know nothing!" (with appropriate apologies to Hogan's Heroes).  This is a small group so I decided to stick my neck out.  Can anyone give me a lesson in written form on "CA glue for Dummies?"
Thanks and yes, all barbs, arrows, zingers, cuts, etc are welcome.

Really, thank you I know someone out there can help me out.  

Oh, I was assembling some Kadee 714 couplers and finally decided some education may be in order.  
be cool
bill marshall


Nigel Phillips
 

Same here, CA will just freeze everything solid if it gets inside. If you must glue the lid, use some Testor thin plastic cement applied with a fine brush over the joint.

Nigel gel


On Friday, April 2, 2021, Wayne <waynewtaylorii@...> wrote:
I started using KaDee couplers in 1977 and have never used any means of adhesion, chemical or heat, and have never had any trouble.  That is what the screw is for.  I have used CA in the screw hole a few times when the hole hole has worn itself slightly larger, but only to help secure the screw in place.


--
Wayne Taylor


Dusty
 

I prefer a cautery pen or a wax carver. A bit easier to control and locate your weld.

Google 'cautery pen battery'.

Dusty Burman
623 261-8707


Bill Mugford
 

OK...

I’ve had the best success assembling 713 and 714 couplers by wrapping small bits of really good tape around the coupler box after it is assembled.

When you screw the assembled coupler onto your car, it won’t come apart.

This probably doesn’t feel permanent, but I have no failures.

Good luck!

Bill Mugford
Phone

On Apr 2, 2021, at 10:37 AM, Wayne <waynewtaylorii@...> wrote:


I started using KaDee couplers in 1977 and have never used any means of adhesion, chemical or heat, and have never had any trouble.  That is what the screw is for.  I have used CA in the screw hole a few times when the hole hole has worn itself slightly larger, but only to help secure the screw in place.


--
Wayne Taylor