Topics

Stub turnouts

Brian Kopp
 

Just received some HOn3 stub turnout bridles and plates. George Sebastian-Coleman over in the DSP&P Group.io list is selling them on Shapeways. See attached if you are interested. These are Code 55. This will be my first hand laid track adventure. The fasttrack jig arrived last week.

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Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

Scott McLeod
 

Very interesting Brian,

 

Can you provide more details as to the material that these are made of?  Especially the bridal.  Movement of the rail in the bridal, resulting wear and life expectancy are of importance from an operational perspective.  Have seen others use altered rail-joiners for the rail to slide in with success.  Just trying to keep those section workers from having to be too busy J

 

Scott McLeod

HOn3 RGS/D&RGW Ridgway - Durango

captaindavekrembs
 

The few I built with code 50 rail there is enough flex to not need a "hinge".

On Saturday, May 2, 2020, 8:49:27 AM CDT, Scott McLeod <rgsmodeler@...> wrote:


Very interesting Brian,

 

Can you provide more details as to the material that these are made of?  Especially the bridal.  Movement of the rail in the bridal, resulting wear and life expectancy are of importance from an operational perspective.  Have seen others use altered rail-joiners for the rail to slide in with success.  Just trying to keep those section workers from having to be too busy J

 

Scott McLeod

HOn3 RGS/D&RGW Ridgway - Durango

Bill Lugg
 

These are printed in "Smooth Fine Detail Plastic" and I think Scott's concern is with the durability of the bridles having the rail sliding in them and the stress of the switch stand pulling on them to throw the switch.  I too wonder about this in the long term.  This material is not that strong that it would seem to provide a good mechanical "tool" for this kind of application.

Bill Lugg

On 5/2/20 8:05 AM, captaindavekrembs via groups.io wrote:
The few I built with code 50 rail there is enough flex to not need a "hinge".

On Saturday, May 2, 2020, 8:49:27 AM CDT, Scott McLeod <rgsmodeler@...> wrote:


Very interesting Brian,

Can you provide more details as to the material that these are made of? Especially the bridal.  Movement of the rail in the bridal, resulting wear and life expectancy are of importance from an operational perspective.  Have seen others use altered rail-joiners for the rail to slide in with success.  Just trying to keep those section workers from having to be too busy J

Scott McLeod

HOn3 RGS/D&RGW Ridgway - Durango

Brian Kopp
 

George may be able to give more detail on the material. He is using them on his O scale NG layout. 

One of the things I liked about them was the idea that they would be self aligning (a challenge with stub turnouts). Of course that means the plates have to take the stress of a switch machine connecting rod that slides to far to the left or right. Hopefully they will last for a while. Since they have those four spike holes I was planning to only spike them so they can be replaced......

Brian

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Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

ftgcss
 

What I did was file down a PCB tie very thin, then solder two code 70 rail joiner on top and then trim to the width of the tie.  I used code 70 joiners on code 55 rail to ensure the bridles would slide as necessary when the switch is bent.  The extra tang on the bridle that is used to drive the "points" was left to solder a wire to drive the switch stand.  Mine aren't as detailed but they are very strong and I think they'll look pretty good when painted.



Scott

Brian Kopp
 

Wow Scott. Those look great. How do you align the rails where they meet head to head?
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Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

Russ Norris
 

I can see why code 55 track would be more flexible, but my track code 70 for my EBT railroad.  The south end of the yard, like the prototype, has a standard stub and a three way stub.  I left a section of the approach track free to move and found it was flexible enough for the stub.  Like others in this thread I soldered a pc tie to the rails for the bridle.  I soldered short lengths of sewing pins to the outside of the rails of the stub, with a slightly stiffer wire for the switch machine drive to make the contact secure.  I did the same thing with the three way stub, except the middle track doesn't carry any traffic.  It's purely for show.  So I did the same thing I did with the standard stub, using only the outside rails.  The stub switches operate well and I have had no problem with operating over them.

Russ Norris

On Sat, May 2, 2020 at 1:45 PM ftgcss <ftgc@...> wrote:
What I did was file down a PCB tie very thin, then solder two code 70 rail joiner on top and then trim to the width of the tie.  I used code 70 joiners on code 55 rail to ensure the bridles would slide as necessary when the switch is bent.  The extra tang on the bridle that is used to drive the "points" was left to solder a wire to drive the switch stand.  Mine aren't as detailed but they are very strong and I think they'll look pretty good when painted.



Scott


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Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/

STAFFE Michel
 

Which motorization do you use for the 3 way stub switches?

Michel.

Le 2 mai 2020 à 19:45, ftgcss <ftgc@...> a écrit :

What I did was file down a PCB tie very thin, then solder two code 70 rail joiner on top and then trim to the width of the tie.  I used code 70 joiners on code 55 rail to ensure the bridles would slide as necessary when the switch is bent.  The extra tang on the bridle that is used to drive the "points" was left to solder a wire to drive the switch stand.  Mine aren't as detailed but they are very strong and I think they'll look pretty good when painted.

<bridles stub.jpg>

Scott

ftgcss
 

Brian thanks,

I think you're asking me how I kept the rail joiners I soldered on to the thinned PCB tie in gauge, correct?

How I make these bridles is...

I stripped the about 3" of ties off one end of about an 8" piece of flex track.  I slid a code 70 rail joiner on each rail then laid them on the thinned PCB tie.  I then placed a "rollee holder" from Railway Engineering on the rail heads to ensure the rails and the joiners stayed in gauge while I soldered them to the thinned PCB tie.  I then slide the completed bridle off the flex track and place the bridle, joiner side down, on my desktop and trim the excess joiner with a razor saw.  I tried trimming them with a dremel and a cutoff wheel, but the heat generated by the cutoff wheel was often enough to melt the solder joint.  I then cut any excess "bridle bar" from the outside of the rail joiners and clean up and shape with a file.  Cutting the rail joiners is going to leave them clogged with a little flash and perhaps a little squished.  I clean up the flash and if necessary open up the joiner a little with the tip of an Exacto blade.  When I have enough for one switch (usually 4 or 5) I slide them on the approach rails leaving two ties between each bridle.  If the approach rails are coming off another switch you have to be able to lift the feeding switch up enough to slide the bridles on, if you bend the rails up enough to slide them on the rails and over the ties, you may bend the rails enough that there will be some vertical misalignment between the approach rail and the stub rails of the switch.(ask me how I know) The picture below illustrates this. 


Here at least one route of each switch forms the approach rails of the next so switch 1 has to have the bridles installed on the approach rails for switch 2 before switch 2 is laid down, switch 2 has to have the bridles installed on the approach rails for switch 3 before switch 3 is installed and so on.

Scott 

ftgcss
 

Russ,

What I did should work with code 70 as well, you'd just need to use code 83 joiners.  I made the bridles because I didn't want the ties on the approach rails to move when the switch was bent.

Scott

ftgcss
 

Michel,

I'm using 9 gram servos under the bench work.  These will be controlled by Dual Three Way III from Tam Valley Depot.

Scott

Russ Norris
 

Scott, 

Maybe because at my age I don't see as well as I once did, but the movement of ties is barely perceptible to my eyes.  And allowing the ties to slide a little eliminates the need to find a way to keep the rails in gauge.  

Russ


On Sat, May 2, 2020, 6:13 PM ftgcss <ftgc@...> wrote:
Russ,

What I did should work with code 70 as well, you'd just need to use code 83 joiners.  I made the bridles because I didn't want the ties on the approach rails to move when the switch was bent.

Scott


--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/

Brian Kopp
 

Scott thanks for the Tam Valley Depot link. 

i was curious about how you stop the switch machine (your 9g servos)at the right place. Russ is using pins soldered on the side of the outside fixed rails........ I am hoping the Shapeway plastic can stand up to a subminiature servo beating against it.

Brian

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Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

LARRY KLOSE
 

I have 11 Sn3 code 55 stub prefab turnouts, originally developed by Tomalco and still marketed by PBL.  Installation is slightly more difficult than point turnouts because the (partially self aligning) feature of the point design isn’t present.  The stub rails are continuous with the adjoining track section and the injection molded bridles are made of Celcon, an Acetyl engineering plastic akin to Delrin.  Even though they appear very delicate, so far they have performed fine.  The turnouts are actually manufactured by Micro Engineering and Celcon is also used for the ties of the turnouts and the PBL/Tomalco code 55 flex track.  My stubs are driven by Bullfrog manual switch machines with built in micro switches to change frog polarity—the movement is transferred from underneath to the center of the bridle.  Switch stands will be linked to the outside ends of the bridle and will be working but cosmetic.  Although the prefab turnouts aren’t available in HOn3, there’s lots to learn from how they are constructed and how they install. 

 

That experience helped with the 3 way I have,  built by Steve Hatch.  It also works fine.  He puts a more robust throw bar on these, made from PC board tie material and the various multiple rails and guardrails are soldered at intervals to PC ties as well—Wood ties fill in between.  It also works just fine although it was a bit harder to lay and get operating.  Steve has a nifty control design using a Tam Valley semaphore circuit board, a servo motor and a 4 pole, 4 throw slide switch that both selects the route through the circuit board and controls polarity to the multiple frogs and routes.  It works great and in my case runs off a DC accessory bus powered by a 12v wall wart that is separate from the DCC bus.  There’s even another separate circuit on the Tam Valley board that I think I can use for the reversing portion of the wye I’m planning—I have to study the instructions again to be sure.  That DC  bus will later be used for effects and lighting in buildings and other features that will be part of my Dolores, CO. model.  My layout is currently 100% stub turnouts.

 

Larry

LARRY KLOSE
 

My bad.  The Tam Valley board uses DC to power the servo but an accessory DCC decoder for other functions, such as signal lights in the semaphore or signals connected to the board.  It’s been long enough that I can’t remember if I used DCC for anything I’m doing with it, i.e. controlling the servo and the connected stub rails.

--------

I have 11 Sn3 code 55 stub prefab turnouts, originally developed by Tomalco and still marketed by PBL.  Installation is slightly more difficult than point turnouts because the (partially self aligning) feature of the point design isn’t present.  The stub rails are continuous with the adjoining track section and the injection molded bridles are made of Celcon, an Acetyl engineering plastic akin to Delrin.  Even though they appear very delicate, so far they have performed fine.  The turnouts are actually manufactured by Micro Engineering and Celcon is also used for the ties of the turnouts and the PBL/Tomalco code 55 flex track.  My stubs are driven by Bullfrog manual switch machines with built in micro switches to change frog polarity—the movement is transferred from underneath to the center of the bridle.  Switch stands will be linked to the outside ends of the bridle and will be working but cosmetic.  Although the prefab turnouts aren’t available in HOn3, there’s lots to learn from how they are constructed and how they install. 

 

That experience helped with the 3 way I have,  built by Steve Hatch.  It also works fine.  He puts a more robust throw bar on these, made from PC board tie material and the various multiple rails and guardrails are soldered at intervals to PC ties as well—Wood ties fill in between.  It also works just fine although it was a bit harder to lay and get operating.  Steve has a nifty control design using a Tam Valley semaphore circuit board, a servo motor and a 4 pole, 4 throw slide switch that both selects the route through the circuit board and controls polarity to the multiple frogs and routes.  It works great and in my case runs off a DC accessory bus powered by a 12v wall wart that is separate from the DCC bus.  There’s even another separate circuit on the Tam Valley board that I think I can use for the reversing portion of the wye I’m planning—I have to study the instructions again to be sure.  That DC  bus will later be used for effects and lighting in buildings and other features that will be part of my Dolores, CO. model.  My layout is currently 100% stub turnouts.

 

Larry

Bruce
 

Larry (and Group),

I am in the process of converting to DCC friendly 30 +/- old but never used Shinohara HOn3 code 70 turnouts.  As part of the conversion I replace the metal bar that connects the points and original plastic throwbar with a plastic throwbar I designed and print using a FDM 3D printer.  I also install a bent phosphor bronze wire so the turnouts will be thrown with your finger ala Pecos.  The wires are placed under the turnout so they won't be seen once installed.  Pictures attached.  Some photos show the parts right after printing but before removing the temporary base (raft or brim) used during printing to hold the part in place on the printer's bed).

A standard PLA filament works fine in this application.  For my stub switches I have designed and printed throwbars and bridles for my code 70 stub switches.  I use Polymax filament.  It is more durable and bends a little if needed.

I have designed and printed a non-functional low level switch machine.  A fair looking model IMHO.  It has a hole that goes all the way from top to bottom for a wire the target will be glued to.

My "hope" is to connect the wire to the throwbar such that when your finger throws the turnout the target will rotate 90 degrees indicating the turnout's position.  I haven't nailed down the connection between the throwbar and the target wire.

QUESTION TO LARRY (or anyone): How do you make the connection to rotate the target?


With cinders in your eyes,
Bruce Bowie
419-602-3584
in2trains@...

Bruce
 

I use a 3D designed and printed "keeper" under my turnouts to hold the over center spring mounted under the turnouts to keep the spring from over time falling out.

I have tabs on the top of the keepers used for stub switches to act as stops.  I use the Polymax filament for these as it is tougher.

Like Brian, I am hoping they will hold up over time.

With cinders in your eyes,
Bruce Bowie
419-602-3584
in2trains@...


On Sat, May 2, 2020, 8:23 PM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Scott thanks for the Tam Valley Depot link. 

i was curious about how you stop the switch machine (your 9g servos)at the right place. Russ is using pins soldered on the side of the outside fixed rails........ I am hoping the Shapeway plastic can stand up to a subminiature servo beating against it.

Brian

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Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

Dusty
 

With regard to 9g servos 'beating' against the stops. My limited experience with these servos indicates that they will 'buzz' if the force reaches a certain level. They have enough power to move switch points before they buzz. I think it's important to make your switches use as little force as possible. Control the frog polarity with Juicers or micro switches. There's no need for 'rod tons' of force to insure the switch points make electrical contact. DCC friendly switches are a different mind set whether they are stub or not.

Food for thought. Your opinion and/or experience may vary.

Dusty Burman 

Mike Conder
 

Interesting, Bruce, can you share a photo?

Mike Conder

On Sun, May 3, 2020 at 8:43 AM Bruce <in2trains@...> wrote:
I use a 3D designed and printed "keeper" under my turnouts to hold the over center spring mounted under the turnouts to keep the spring from over time falling out.

I have tabs on the top of the keepers used for stub switches to act as stops.  I use the Polymax filament for these as it is tougher.

Like Brian, I am hoping they will hold up over time.

With cinders in your eyes,
Bruce Bowie
419-602-3584
in2trains@...

On Sat, May 2, 2020, 8:23 PM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:
Scott thanks for the Tam Valley Depot link. 

i was curious about how you stop the switch machine (your 9g servos)at the right place. Russ is using pins soldered on the side of the outside fixed rails........ I am hoping the Shapeway plastic can stand up to a subminiature servo beating against it.

Brian

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Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL