Topics

Solder paste for Turnout construction


Bill Lugg
 

This afternoon I was reading the literature that came with my Dad's American Beauty resistance soldering unit.  Included was a reprint of a 1992 MR article about resistance soldering that included a tip on using "solder cream" between PC board ties and rail with the tweezers on the soldering unit to make nice clean joints.  It occurred to me that teaming this up with the Fastracks jigs would improve and speed my turnout construction.

My question is regarding the choice of paste to get the strongest joint for this application.  It seems at first blush the options are 63/37 Sn/Pb or low melting point AG solder paste.  I did find SN/BI/Ag solder paste too, but it's much rarer than the others.  All of the Sn/Pb pastes are focused on SMD repairs so I'm not sure about their mechanical strength for flexing points on a turnout, for example.  Admittedly, the wire solder I'm using now is 60/40 so maybe I'm worrying about nothing.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks
Bill Lugg


Climax@...
 

I've used 60/40 for decades and never had a failure yet. With the mix or a good TIX flux you can never make a mistake except with a cold joint. With a RSU it takes a little bit of courage to hold parts and see that metal get so hot but its doing its job and works perfectly.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Lugg <@luggw1>
Sent: Jul 5, 2020 5:41 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Solder paste for Turnout construction

This afternoon I was reading the literature that came with my Dad's
American Beauty resistance soldering unit.  Included was a reprint of a
1992 MR article about resistance soldering that included a tip on using
"solder cream" between PC board ties and rail with the tweezers on the
soldering unit to make nice clean joints.  It occurred to me that
teaming this up with the Fastracks jigs would improve and speed my
turnout construction.

My question is regarding the choice of paste to get the strongest joint
for this application.  It seems at first blush the options are 63/37
Sn/Pb or low melting point AG solder paste.  I did find SN/BI/Ag solder
paste too, but it's much rarer than the others.  All of the Sn/Pb pastes
are focused on SMD repairs so I'm not sure about their mechanical
strength for flexing points on a turnout, for example.  Admittedly, the
wire solder I'm using now is 60/40 so maybe I'm worrying about nothing.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks
Bill Lugg





lloyd lehrer
 

bill, i use Sn42 Bi57 Ag1
from MG chemicals
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 2:41 PM Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:
This afternoon I was reading the literature that came with my Dad's
American Beauty resistance soldering unit.  Included was a reprint of a
1992 MR article about resistance soldering that included a tip on using
"solder cream" between PC board ties and rail with the tweezers on the
soldering unit to make nice clean joints.  It occurred to me that
teaming this up with the Fastracks jigs would improve and speed my
turnout construction.

My question is regarding the choice of paste to get the strongest joint
for this application.  It seems at first blush the options are 63/37
Sn/Pb or low melting point AG solder paste.  I did find SN/BI/Ag solder
paste too, but it's much rarer than the others.  All of the Sn/Pb pastes
are focused on SMD repairs so I'm not sure about their mechanical
strength for flexing points on a turnout, for example.  Admittedly, the
wire solder I'm using now is 60/40 so maybe I'm worrying about nothing.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks
Bill Lugg






--
lloyd lehrer


captaindavekrembs
 

I useTIX flux.

On Sunday, July 5, 2020, 5:08:36 PM CDT, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:


bill, i use Sn42 Bi57 Ag1
from MG chemicals
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 2:41 PM Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:
This afternoon I was reading the literature that came with my Dad's
American Beauty resistance soldering unit.  Included was a reprint of a
1992 MR article about resistance soldering that included a tip on using
"solder cream" between PC board ties and rail with the tweezers on the
soldering unit to make nice clean joints.  It occurred to me that
teaming this up with the Fastracks jigs would improve and speed my
turnout construction.

My question is regarding the choice of paste to get the strongest joint
for this application.  It seems at first blush the options are 63/37
Sn/Pb or low melting point AG solder paste.  I did find SN/BI/Ag solder
paste too, but it's much rarer than the others.  All of the Sn/Pb pastes
are focused on SMD repairs so I'm not sure about their mechanical
strength for flexing points on a turnout, for example.  Admittedly, the
wire solder I'm using now is 60/40 so maybe I'm worrying about nothing.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks
Bill Lugg






--
lloyd lehrer


lloyd lehrer
 

capt: I dont believe Tix makes a solder paste, just solid solder and jars of flux.

lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 3:34 PM captaindavekrembs via groups.io <captaindavekrembs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I useTIX flux.

On Sunday, July 5, 2020, 5:08:36 PM CDT, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:


bill, i use Sn42 Bi57 Ag1
from MG chemicals
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 2:41 PM Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:
This afternoon I was reading the literature that came with my Dad's
American Beauty resistance soldering unit.  Included was a reprint of a
1992 MR article about resistance soldering that included a tip on using
"solder cream" between PC board ties and rail with the tweezers on the
soldering unit to make nice clean joints.  It occurred to me that
teaming this up with the Fastracks jigs would improve and speed my
turnout construction.

My question is regarding the choice of paste to get the strongest joint
for this application.  It seems at first blush the options are 63/37
Sn/Pb or low melting point AG solder paste.  I did find SN/BI/Ag solder
paste too, but it's much rarer than the others.  All of the Sn/Pb pastes
are focused on SMD repairs so I'm not sure about their mechanical
strength for flexing points on a turnout, for example.  Admittedly, the
wire solder I'm using now is 60/40 so maybe I'm worrying about nothing.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks
Bill Lugg






--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


Climax@...
 

I have used TIX on everything.  I found it universal to make things flow from wiring to nickle silver to nickle silver or brass to brass.  It just works.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Jul 5, 2020 6:53 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Solder paste for Turnout construction

capt: I dont believe Tix makes a solder paste, just solid solder and jars of flux.

lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 3:34 PM captaindavekrembs via groups.io <captaindavekrembs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I useTIX flux.

On Sunday, July 5, 2020, 5:08:36 PM CDT, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:


bill, i use Sn42 Bi57 Ag1
from MG chemicals
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 2:41 PM Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:
This afternoon I was reading the literature that came with my Dad's
American Beauty resistance soldering unit.  Included was a reprint of a
1992 MR article about resistance soldering that included a tip on using
"solder cream" between PC board ties and rail with the tweezers on the
soldering unit to make nice clean joints.  It occurred to me that
teaming this up with the Fastracks jigs would improve and speed my
turnout construction.

My question is regarding the choice of paste to get the strongest joint
for this application.  It seems at first blush the options are 63/37
Sn/Pb or low melting point AG solder paste.  I did find SN/BI/Ag solder
paste too, but it's much rarer than the others.  All of the Sn/Pb pastes
are focused on SMD repairs so I'm not sure about their mechanical
strength for flexing points on a turnout, for example.  Admittedly, the
wire solder I'm using now is 60/40 so maybe I'm worrying about nothing.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks
Bill Lugg






--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


Dale Buxton
 

Same here.

Dale Buxton

On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 19:09 <Climax@...> wrote:
I have used TIX on everything.  I found it universal to make things flow from wiring to nickle silver to nickle silver or brass to brass.  It just works.
Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Jul 5, 2020 6:53 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Solder paste for Turnout construction

capt: I dont believe Tix makes a solder paste, just solid solder and jars of flux.

lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 3:34 PM captaindavekrembs via groups.io <captaindavekrembs=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
I useTIX flux.

On Sunday, July 5, 2020, 5:08:36 PM CDT, lloyd lehrer <lloydlehrer@...> wrote:


bill, i use Sn42 Bi57 Ag1
from MG chemicals
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Sun, Jul 5, 2020 at 2:41 PM Bill Lugg <luggw1@...> wrote:
This afternoon I was reading the literature that came with my Dad's
American Beauty resistance soldering unit.  Included was a reprint of a
1992 MR article about resistance soldering that included a tip on using
"solder cream" between PC board ties and rail with the tweezers on the
soldering unit to make nice clean joints.  It occurred to me that
teaming this up with the Fastracks jigs would improve and speed my
turnout construction.

My question is regarding the choice of paste to get the strongest joint
for this application.  It seems at first blush the options are 63/37
Sn/Pb or low melting point AG solder paste.  I did find SN/BI/Ag solder
paste too, but it's much rarer than the others.  All of the Sn/Pb pastes
are focused on SMD repairs so I'm not sure about their mechanical
strength for flexing points on a turnout, for example.  Admittedly, the
wire solder I'm using now is 60/40 so maybe I'm worrying about nothing.

Any thoughts or recommendations?

Thanks
Bill Lugg






--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


Mark Kasprowicz
 

Not sure if you can get Carrs products in the US but they make a 60/40 solder paste called Carrs 188. They also make various different fluxs. I saw it used at an exhibition where some 2mm Society guys were making the most beautiful turnouts using paste and RSU's (but without any jigs!). The only difference was they were using a carbon probe rather than tweezers. The other leg was connected to the rail with an alligator clip. I've tried it and it works very well.
Mark K
Oxon England.


Brian Kopp
 


I use leaded 63/37 solder wire for hand-laid turnouts. I suppose solder paste would work too and pre-application would free up a hand....might be worth a try. If it doesn't work, it might be because there isn't enough flux to clean the joint area...........a little extra cleaning before hand??

63/37 vs 60/40 is a physics issue. 63/37 is eutectic solder. Which means it melts and freezes at one single temperature, not over a range of temperature. 60/40 solder and other non-eutectic solder, go through a semi-gell state during transition that can result in cold solder joints (weak and prone to cracks) if you stop applying heat to soon. The issue arises because the melting point of the alloy is lower than the individual melting points of the component metals. Unfortunately, the solution to solder reliably with non-eutectic solder is to use more heat, which is often counter productive for delicate soldering jobs..... Rail to PCB tie soldering isn't what I would call delicate work so it is among the more forgiving applications that can use 60/40 solder easily.

Whatever the basic solder components, (silver, indium for really low temp, etc.) I always try to find a blend that is eutectic.  I am a Kester fanboy (solder wire and paste) but I have also used chipquik paste for indium low temp solder.


--
Brian Kopp (Electrical Engineer)
Jacksonville, FL


Mick Moignard
 

I’m with Mark here, except I’ve used plumbers solder paste with no issues and both an RSU and a high wattage iron. Just wash the completed turnouts carefully and well afterwards when you’re done to remove all the flux residue, whatever you use.

Much

______________________________________
Mick Moignard
mick@...
p:+44 7774 652504
skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M, T, but it always ends WTF!


John Hutnick
 

I do not use paste.  I have found too much splattering, and a struggle to build up a substantial joint.  I have also found paste drying out over time.  I use Sn Pb Cd solder melting at 145C.  Less chance of heat damage to PC board.  I cut a tiny chip of solder with a rosin flux, place it next to the rail base, and heat with tweezers.  Stop as soon as any melting.  Tweezers allow you to then move the rail to get gauge adjusted.  145C does not seem common in the US, much more popular in UK.  davidcoinz1551 has been selling on Ebay for $25/lb.  It works very well for any general soldering.
Here is a photo of a #3 Barry slip switch I made with code 100 in standard O gauge, using this solder.  However, to make the frog point, I use 96 Sn, 4 Ag, at 430F.


Seb J
 

Nice switch John !

Le lun. 6 juil. 2020 à 17:13, John Hutnick <johnhutnick@...> a écrit :
I do not use paste.  I have found too much splattering, and a struggle to build up a substantial joint.  I have also found paste drying out over time.  I use Sn Pb Cd solder melting at 145C.  Less chance of heat damage to PC board.  I cut a tiny chip of solder with a rosin flux, place it next to the rail base, and heat with tweezers.  Stop as soon as any melting.  Tweezers allow you to then move the rail to get gauge adjusted.  145C does not seem common in the US, much more popular in UK.  davidcoinz1551 has been selling on Ebay for $25/lb.  It works very well for any general soldering.
Here is a photo of a #3 Barry slip switch I made with code 100 in standard O gauge, using this solder.  However, to make the frog point, I use 96 Sn, 4 Ag, at 430F.

--
Cordialement

Sébastien Jubault
Vice-Président
AECFM - Chemin de Fer de Rillé