Topics

Roller gauges


lloyd lehrer
 

Dave, grab your micrometer, measure your rail thickness, grab your nmra gauge, chuck up some brass rod and go to work.i found Steve's gauges had too much excess collar on the ends and made my ends smaller.

I used a cutoff bit that was ground to the rail thickness so it is just one simple plunge into the rod for each rail.  Below on the left of the attached image is a commercial roller and two of mine.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

--
lloyd lehrer


Climax@...
 

I do like your design better.  I have a Sherline Lathe and a Sherline Vertical mill so it shouldn't be a problem.  I hope nobody gets pissed at me for offering to do this.

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 11:41 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Roller gauges

Dave, grab your micrometer, measure your rail thickness, grab your nmra gauge, chuck up some brass rod and go to work.i found Steve's gauges had too much excess collar on the ends and made my ends smaller.

I used a cutoff bit that was ground to the rail thickness so it is just one simple plunge into the rod for each rail.  Below on the left of the attached image is a commercial roller and two of mine.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

--
lloyd lehrer


Climax@...
 

On the rollee should I make them so the outer rail space spins freely for going around curves or just make the inner slot with a deeper cut?  Maybe add a differential like a car has?

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 11:41 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Roller gauges

Dave, grab your micrometer, measure your rail thickness, grab your nmra gauge, chuck up some brass rod and go to work.i found Steve's gauges had too much excess collar on the ends and made my ends smaller.

I used a cutoff bit that was ground to the rail thickness so it is just one simple plunge into the rod for each rail.  Below on the left of the attached image is a commercial roller and two of mine.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

--
lloyd lehrer


lloyd lehrer
 

Yah same tools i have. The heads of the rail brands differ in thickness a little and the rail code also of course, so you just have to concern yourself with those details. I added 2 thousandths to my slots, but unless you chuck the tool up short it will probably wiggle that much anyhow.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 9:04 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
I do like your design better.  I have a Sherline Lathe and a Sherline Vertical mill so it shouldn't be a problem.  I hope nobody gets pissed at me for offering to do this.

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 11:41 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Roller gauges

Dave, grab your micrometer, measure your rail thickness, grab your nmra gauge, chuck up some brass rod and go to work.i found Steve's gauges had too much excess collar on the ends and made my ends smaller.

I used a cutoff bit that was ground to the rail thickness so it is just one simple plunge into the rod for each rail.  Below on the left of the attached image is a commercial roller and two of mine.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


lloyd lehrer
 

If you want to avoid issues with guard rails you could remove the fenders. It also allows you travel farther in towards the points from the frog end.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 9:33 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
On the rollee should I make them so the outer rail space spins freely for going around curves or just make the inner slot with a deeper cut?  Maybe add a differential like a car has?

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 11:41 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Roller gauges

Dave, grab your micrometer, measure your rail thickness, grab your nmra gauge, chuck up some brass rod and go to work.i found Steve's gauges had too much excess collar on the ends and made my ends smaller.

I used a cutoff bit that was ground to the rail thickness so it is just one simple plunge into the rod for each rail.  Below on the left of the attached image is a commercial roller and two of mine.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


Climax@...
 

Lloyd, all jokes aside, wouldn't that kind of defeat the slots to keep the rails parallel and in gauge?  Also, should I make the slots for code 70 or code 55?  I am assuming that the width is /070 or .055.  I would make them about ..05 over to allow for some clearance so they don't bind up on the rails.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 12:40 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Roller gauges

If you want to avoid issues with guard rails you could remove the fenders. It also allows you travel farther in towards the points from the frog end.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 9:33 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
On the rollee should I make them so the outer rail space spins freely for going around curves or just make the inner slot with a deeper cut?  Maybe add a differential like a car has?

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 11:41 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Roller gauges

Dave, grab your micrometer, measure your rail thickness, grab your nmra gauge, chuck up some brass rod and go to work.i found Steve's gauges had too much excess collar on the ends and made my ends smaller.

I used a cutoff bit that was ground to the rail thickness so it is just one simple plunge into the rod for each rail.  Below on the left of the attached image is a commercial roller and two of mine.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


lloyd lehrer
 

you need to mimic the flange ways on the nmra gauge.  the shoulder on the ends of the gauge keep you from getting in closer to the points and thru the guard rails.  I did not do make that adjustment on my rollers and should have. I just use the flange gauges after I solder the rails in place to check my accuracy since I did not trim my roller ends( fenders). And jokes are never aside, they are the main spice of civil discourse.

lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 10:57 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
Lloyd, all jokes aside, wouldn't that kind of defeat the slots to keep the rails parallel and in gauge?  Also, should I make the slots for code 70 or code 55?  I am assuming that the width is /070 or .055.  I would make them about ..05 over to allow for some clearance so they don't bind up on the rails.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 12:40 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Roller gauges

If you want to avoid issues with guard rails you could remove the fenders. It also allows you travel farther in towards the points from the frog end.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 9:33 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
On the rollee should I make them so the outer rail space spins freely for going around curves or just make the inner slot with a deeper cut?  Maybe add a differential like a car has?

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 11:41 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Roller gauges

Dave, grab your micrometer, measure your rail thickness, grab your nmra gauge, chuck up some brass rod and go to work.i found Steve's gauges had too much excess collar on the ends and made my ends smaller.

I used a cutoff bit that was ground to the rail thickness so it is just one simple plunge into the rod for each rail.  Below on the left of the attached image is a commercial roller and two of mine.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


Climax@...
 

So if I cut the rail depth say .070 deep and maybe .070 from the ends do  you think that would do the trick, and if so what treat do you give?  Oh wait, that was a week ago!
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 2:08 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Roller gauges

you need to mimic the flange ways on the nmra gauge.  the shoulder on the ends of the gauge keep you from getting in closer to the points and thru the guard rails.  I did not do make that adjustment on my rollers and should have. I just use the flange gauges after I solder the rails in place to check my accuracy since I did not trim my roller ends( fenders). And jokes are never aside, they are the main spice of civil discourse.

lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 10:57 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
Lloyd, all jokes aside, wouldn't that kind of defeat the slots to keep the rails parallel and in gauge?  Also, should I make the slots for code 70 or code 55?  I am assuming that the width is /070 or .055.  I would make them about ..05 over to allow for some clearance so they don't bind up on the rails.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 12:40 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Roller gauges

If you want to avoid issues with guard rails you could remove the fenders. It also allows you travel farther in towards the points from the frog end.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 9:33 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
On the rollee should I make them so the outer rail space spins freely for going around curves or just make the inner slot with a deeper cut?  Maybe add a differential like a car has?

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 11:41 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Roller gauges

Dave, grab your micrometer, measure your rail thickness, grab your nmra gauge, chuck up some brass rod and go to work.i found Steve's gauges had too much excess collar on the ends and made my ends smaller.

I used a cutoff bit that was ground to the rail thickness so it is just one simple plunge into the rod for each rail.  Below on the left of the attached image is a commercial roller and two of mine.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


lloyd lehrer
 

I am totally code 70 so I cant offer any gauge 55 or 40 issues.  Also a mix of micro eng and peco and shin-O'hara.just make it deep enough to stay off the "plastic or spike head depending on your use.
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 11:23 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
So if I cut the rail depth say .070 deep and maybe .070 from the ends do  you think that would do the trick, and if so what treat do you give?  Oh wait, that was a week ago!
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 2:08 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Roller gauges

you need to mimic the flange ways on the nmra gauge.  the shoulder on the ends of the gauge keep you from getting in closer to the points and thru the guard rails.  I did not do make that adjustment on my rollers and should have. I just use the flange gauges after I solder the rails in place to check my accuracy since I did not trim my roller ends( fenders). And jokes are never aside, they are the main spice of civil discourse.

lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Mon, Nov 9, 2020 at 10:57 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
Lloyd, all jokes aside, wouldn't that kind of defeat the slots to keep the rails parallel and in gauge?  Also, should I make the slots for code 70 or code 55?  I am assuming that the width is /070 or .055.  I would make them about ..05 over to allow for some clearance so they don't bind up on the rails.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 12:40 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Roller gauges

If you want to avoid issues with guard rails you could remove the fenders. It also allows you travel farther in towards the points from the frog end.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 9:33 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
On the rollee should I make them so the outer rail space spins freely for going around curves or just make the inner slot with a deeper cut?  Maybe add a differential like a car has?

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 11:41 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: [HOn3] Roller gauges

Dave, grab your micrometer, measure your rail thickness, grab your nmra gauge, chuck up some brass rod and go to work.i found Steve's gauges had too much excess collar on the ends and made my ends smaller.

I used a cutoff bit that was ground to the rail thickness so it is just one simple plunge into the rod for each rail.  Below on the left of the attached image is a commercial roller and two of mine.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


--
lloyd lehrer


Jim Marlett
 

I just measured the rail head width of some Micro Engineering code 70 rail and got about 0.032” and some code 55 rail at about 0.029”. I thought the Code 55 would be less, but the old calipers said 0.029. Don’t take my word for it. Do your own measuring, but if what I understand you are saying correctly, .070” would be way, way too wide for the slot. My experience with actual plastic Rollee Holders is that they sit too tightly for comfort on the rail head (removes paint from rails) and that the slot width on curves makes no difference whatsoever. I use a 24” minimum radius so it is possible that holders on a tighter radius might have a different effect. I think 0.00"1 or 0.002”extra clearance on the outside might be useful.

As for gauge, I believe Steve Hatch’s Rollee Holders are made to the very slightly narrower flange way gauge. There is a slight discrepancy between the track gauge part of the NMRA gauge and flange way part of the NMRA gauge. If I recall correctly, Steve Hatch thinks the flange way part works better at least on turnouts. Personally, I use old three point gauges, Rollee Holders, and the NMRA gauge and I can’t see much difference. I was trying to find a reference to all this and I can’t, so please take my input about gauges with a grain of salt. 

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Nov 9, 2020, at 12:57 PM, Climax@... <Climax@...> wrote:

Lloyd, all jokes aside, wouldn't that kind of defeat the slots to keep the rails parallel and in gauge?  Also, should I make the slots for code 70 or code 55?  I am assuming that the width is /070 or .055.  I would make them about ..05 over to allow for some clearance so they don't bind up on the rails.
Dave

-----Original Message----- 
From: lloyd lehrer 
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 12:40 PM 
To: HOn3@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Roller gauges 

If you want to avoid issues with guard rails you could remove the fenders. It also allows you travel farther in towards the points from the frog end.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Mon, Nov 9, 2020, 9:33 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
On the rollee should I make them so the outer rail space spins freely for going around curves or just make the inner slot with a deeper cut?  Maybe add a differential like a car has?

-----Original Message----- 
From: lloyd lehrer 
Sent: Nov 9, 2020 11:41 AM 
To: HOn3@groups.io 
Subject: [HOn3] Roller gauges 

Dave, grab your micrometer, measure your rail thickness, grab your nmra gauge, chuck up some brass rod and go to work.i found Steve's gauges had too much excess collar on the ends and made my ends smaller.

I used a cutoff bit that was ground to the rail thickness so it is just one simple plunge into the rod for each rail.  Below on the left of the attached image is a commercial roller and two of mine.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

-- 
lloyd lehrer



-- 
lloyd lehrer


Steve Hatch
 

Steve Hatch here.
The rollers I make are made to the flangeway and of the nmra gauge and not the track and
Reason:
That matches the wheel set gauge.
Since I'm running wheels through the turnouts and Not gauges, it stands to reason that I. Should gauge to the wheels.  The nmra track gauge is too wide and tends to derail cars since they are sloppy loose in the wide track.
The tighter gauge gives smooth non derail performance by actual tests.
Second. I make the lucite gauges a little tight on the rail so they stay put when spiking.  They still roll as needed
Does that answer the questions?
Steve


Steve Hatch
 

The stupid spell checker keeps making end into and


Gary Crawford
 

Spell check is my enema.


On Sat, Nov 14, 2020, 10:56 AM Steve Hatch <hatch@...> wrote:
The stupid spell checker keeps making end into and


Climax@...
 

Keep on making them Steve.  Since you seem to have a good handle on them lets leave it to one source, you, for roller gauges.
DAve

-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Hatch
Sent: Nov 14, 2020 10:52 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Roller gauges

Steve Hatch here.
The rollers I make are made to the flangeway and of the nmra gauge and not the track and
Reason:
That matches the wheel set gauge.
Since I'm running wheels through the turnouts and Not gauges, it stands to reason that I. Should gauge to the wheels.  The nmra track gauge is too wide and tends to derail cars since they are sloppy loose in the wide track.
The tighter gauge gives smooth non derail performance by actual tests.
Second. I make the lucite gauges a little tight on the rail so they stay put when spiking.  They still roll as needed
Does that answer the questions?
Steve


Jim Marlett
 

I should mention that the tightness of Steve Hatch’s rollers only effects pre-painted rail. Unpainted or chemically blackened is not damaged. While a looser fit would be my preference for pre-painted rail, I really like the tight fit when paint removal is not a problem. Overall, I strongly recommend Rollee Holders and intend to keep using them.

Jim Marlett
http://flatheaddrag.com/
http://jimmarlett.zenfolio.com/


On Nov 9, 2020, at 2:28 PM, Jim Marlett <jmarlett@...> wrote:

I just measured the rail head width of some Micro Engineering code 70 rail and got about 0.032” and some code 55 rail at about 0.029”. I thought the Code 55 would be less, but the old calipers said 0.029. Don’t take my word for it. Do your own measuring, but if what I understand you are saying correctly, .070” would be way, way too wide for the slot. My experience with actual plastic Rollee Holders is that they sit too tightly for comfort on the rail head (removes paint from rails) and that the slot width on curves makes no difference whatsoever. I use a 24” minimum radius so it is possible that holders on a tighter radius might have a different effect. I think 0.00"1 or 0.002”extra clearance on the outside might be useful.

As for gauge, I believe Steve Hatch’s Rollee Holders are made to the very slightly narrower flange way gauge. There is a slight discrepancy between the track gauge part of the NMRA gauge and flange way part of the NMRA gauge. If I recall correctly, Steve Hatch thinks the flange way part works better at least on turnouts. Personally, I use old three point gauges, Rollee Holders, and the NMRA gauge and I can’t see much difference. I was trying to find a reference to all this and I can’t, so please take my input about gauges with a grain of salt.