Topics

Reversing section DCC advice sought

Stephen Silver
 

Hi group.  As I continue to redesign, tweak, and understand some of the grade issues I need to solve, I have run up against a reversing loop question that I am having a challenge solving as someone who is building his first DCC layout.
Either of the two left hand turnouts at "X" lead to another reversing loop which is much simpler.  This is the narrow gauge portion only in red with the section I am looking for help on in magenta.  As you can see, at the turn out in the upper left, it continues on back to the mainline.  Do I need circuit breakers as well like the PSX

All thoughts and ideas welcome.  I am running Digitrax, intend to power the frog from the Tortoise via DS44 decoders, using Fast Tracks built turnouts.

lloyd lehrer
 

Just one reverser needed on the left long curve on the fuchia. Pick any hunk of the single track.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 10:14 AM Stephen Silver via Groups.Io <ssilver996=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi group.  As I continue to redesign, tweak, and understand some of the grade issues I need to solve, I have run up against a reversing loop question that I am having a challenge solving as someone who is building his first DCC layout.
Either of the two left hand turnouts at "X" lead to another reversing loop which is much simpler.  This is the narrow gauge portion only in red with the section I am looking for help on in magenta.  As you can see, at the turn out in the upper left, it continues on back to the mainline.  Do I need circuit breakers as well like the PSX

All thoughts and ideas welcome.  I am running Digitrax, intend to power the frog from the Tortoise via DS44 decoders, using Fast Tracks built turnouts.


--
lloyd lehrer

Climax@...
 

Two basic rules no matter if you are running DC or DCC.  You cannot have + & - going to the same track, it's a dead short.
Rule 1.  Always feed a switch from the point end and put gaps after the frogs.
Rule 2.  In any reverse circuit or Y you must have a set of gaps or you will have + & - problems.

If you are using an auto reverse, you still need a set of gaps.  When the reverse polarity sees the short it throws the polarity automatically.
If you are manually controlling the reverse loop, you must have two gaps, use a DPDT Toggle switch to throw the polarity on the section coming out of, or come to a compete stop and throw it while in the loop if wired to the loop.

If it will run on DC it will run on DCC.

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Sep 8, 2019 1:25 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Reversing section DCC advice sought

Just one reverser needed on the left long curve on the fuchia. Pick any hunk of the single track.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 10:14 AM Stephen Silver via Groups.Io <ssilver996=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi group.  As I continue to redesign, tweak, and understand some of the grade issues I need to solve, I have run up against a reversing loop question that I am having a challenge solving as someone who is building his first DCC layout.
Either of the two left hand turnouts at "X" lead to another reversing loop which is much simpler.  This is the narrow gauge portion only in red with the section I am looking for help on in magenta.  As you can see, at the turn out in the upper left, it continues on back to the mainline.  Do I need circuit breakers as well like the PSX

All thoughts and ideas welcome.  I am running Digitrax, intend to power the frog from the Tortoise via DS44 decoders, using Fast Tracks built turnouts.


--
lloyd lehrer

Stephen Silver
 

Thanks

Since I do not plan on running anything DC, and don't even have a DC transformer, everything is going to be gapped for DCC.  I understand about gapping a reverse loop.  Frogs are all gapped and isolated, fed from the Tortoise. All turnout controls will be from the cab, no switches at this point though the wiring harness will be made available for momentary on switches to activate the Tortoises if I choose to in the future.  All lengths for auto reversing will accommodate the longest train I plan on running.

Life is mostly attitude and timing


On Sunday, September 8, 2019, 12:56:21 PM PDT, <Climax@...> wrote:


Two basic rules no matter if you are running DC or DCC.  You cannot have + & - going to the same track, it's a dead short.
Rule 1.  Always feed a switch from the point end and put gaps after the frogs.
Rule 2.  In any reverse circuit or Y you must have a set of gaps or you will have + & - problems.

If you are using an auto reverse, you still need a set of gaps.  When the reverse polarity sees the short it throws the polarity automatically.
If you are manually controlling the reverse loop, you must have two gaps, use a DPDT Toggle switch to throw the polarity on the section coming out of, or come to a compete stop and throw it while in the loop if wired to the loop.

If it will run on DC it will run on DCC.

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Sep 8, 2019 1:25 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Reversing section DCC advice sought

Just one reverser needed on the left long curve on the fuchia. Pick any hunk of the single track.

lloyd lehrer, (310)951-9097

On Sun, Sep 8, 2019, 10:14 AM Stephen Silver via Groups.Io <ssilver996=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi group.  As I continue to redesign, tweak, and understand some of the grade issues I need to solve, I have run up against a reversing loop question that I am having a challenge solving as someone who is building his first DCC layout.
Either of the two left hand turnouts at "X" lead to another reversing loop which is much simpler.  This is the narrow gauge portion only in red with the section I am looking for help on in magenta.  As you can see, at the turn out in the upper left, it continues on back to the mainline.  Do I need circuit breakers as well like the PSX

All thoughts and ideas welcome.  I am running Digitrax, intend to power the frog from the Tortoise via DS44 decoders, using Fast Tracks built turnouts.


--
lloyd lehrer

Steve Hatch
 

  The S curve section from frog to frog including the passing siding is your reversing section.
 The portion of your main line (you have it in purple) is not part of the reversing section.
The entire oval all the way around is not part of the reversing section.
  Non of it should be purple.
One power shield to the oval and one reversing shield to the S and and your done.
-Steve Hatch

David Keith
 

I agree with Steve Hatch that your "loop main" could be removed from the reversing section and only the "S-curve" need be reversed.

With an Auto-Reverser, you do not want to have a train/trains going across both gap locations at the same time.  Doing so will cause the reverser to toggle back and forth with every wheel (metal) crossing.  Steve's proposal will not prevent multiple crossings, two narrow gauge trains (or a single really long train) could cross the gap locations at the same time.  If you try to put one train into the staging area while pulling another out, this could become a common occurrence.

If I understand correctly, you only plan to reverse narrow gauge trains.  Given that desire, I suggest that you isolate the whole reversing loop from the standard gauge.  In the plan provided, keep the full loop magenta (as narrow gauge) and then have the standard gauge and narrow gauge connect outside away from the loop.  Then you have a nice long reversing section, and the gap locations for the loop can be close to the single turnout that decides if train goes left or right (clockwise or counter-clockwise) around the loop.  With the gaps at the back end of the frog, there is no concern about multiple trains crossing the gaps at the same time, it's physically not possible.

If you like the above suggestion....Use the contact on the turnout rather than an auto-reverser to switch the polarity....Simpler again.

Stephen, if your space permits consider the attached diagram.  It shows my final proposal.
  • Turnout labeled RS is NG only, and the reversing turnout.  The contacts control the polarity on the magenta reversing loop.
  • I added standard gauge track in red to by-pass the NG reversing loop.
  • In blue (should be magenta), I double tracked the loop, lengthening the staging tracks, so that you can store longer trains or serially store trains.
  • The black X's mark track connections/turnouts not required in my proposal

These changes make the loop easier to wire and easier for your operators to operate  Enjoy,

Dave K.

Stephen Silver
 

Thanks Dave.  This portion is not dual gauge, narrow gauge only, sorry for the misunderstanding.  Dual Gauge loop is another whole part and is already settled on the auto reversing.  Attached is another thought.  The Auto Reversing section is in blue

Life is mostly attitude and timing


On Wednesday, September 11, 2019, 5:31:00 AM PDT, David Keith <dckeith14@...> wrote:


I agree with Steve Hatch that your "loop main" could be removed from the reversing section and only the "S-curve" need be reversed.

With an Auto-Reverser, you do not want to have a train/trains going across both gap locations at the same time.  Doing so will cause the reverser to toggle back and forth with every wheel (metal) crossing.  Steve's proposal will not prevent multiple crossings, two narrow gauge trains (or a single really long train) could cross the gap locations at the same time.  If you try to put one train into the staging area while pulling another out, this could become a common occurrence.

If I understand correctly, you only plan to reverse narrow gauge trains.  Given that desire, I suggest that you isolate the whole reversing loop from the standard gauge.  In the plan provided, keep the full loop magenta (as narrow gauge) and then have the standard gauge and narrow gauge connect outside away from the loop.  Then you have a nice long reversing section, and the gap locations for the loop can be close to the single turnout that decides if train goes left or right (clockwise or counter-clockwise) around the loop.  With the gaps at the back end of the frog, there is no concern about multiple trains crossing the gaps at the same time, it's physically not possible.

If you like the above suggestion....Use the contact on the turnout rather than an auto-reverser to switch the polarity....Simpler again.

Stephen, if your space permits consider the attached diagram.  It shows my final proposal.
  • Turnout labeled RS is NG only, and the reversing turnout.  The contacts control the polarity on the magenta reversing loop.
  • I added standard gauge track in red to by-pass the NG reversing loop.
  • In blue (should be magenta), I double tracked the loop, lengthening the staging tracks, so that you can store longer trains or serially store trains.
  • The black X's mark track connections/turnouts not required in my proposal

These changes make the loop easier to wire and easier for your operators to operate  Enjoy,

Dave K.

David Keith
 

Stephen,

Your diagram is what Steve Hatch proposed and I stated would work.  It does not address the issues of wheel sets crossing both sets of gaps at the same time which can cause ARs fits.  Long trains or multiple trains could cause those problems in the latest diagram.  

So the latest is limited to trains shorter than the reversing section and limited to a single train going in/out of the reversing section at a time   if your good with those limitations the latest diagram should work flawlessly for you.

Dave K