Narrow Gauge


Climax@...
 

We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and anything less is Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are 36" and 30". Was there any other sizes used on a powered narrow gauge railroad, not referring to mining track of 24 or 18 inch.
Mule


lloyd lehrer
 

hey Mule, did you forget the maine 2 footers and the meter gauge railroads
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 10:04 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and anything less is Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are 36" and 30". Was there any other sizes used on a powered narrow gauge railroad, not referring to mining track of 24 or 18 inch.
Mule


--
lloyd lehrer


John G Massura
 

What about 42” in the British Empire (or are we just talking about US RR)?

LongJohn

On Mar 2, 2021, at 12:04, Climax@... wrote:

We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and anything less is Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are 36" and 30". Was there any other sizes used on a powered narrow gauge railroad, not referring to mining track of 24 or 18 inch.
Mule


Climax@...
 

PK, Lloyd, 
Yes, I forgot about them.  Got a question though.  since the 24" Ry did exist up there were there any cases in higher winds were the cars would blow off the tracks or at least tip over due to wind?
Mule

-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Mar 2, 2021 1:13 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Narrow Gauge

hey Mule, did you forget the maine 2 footers and the meter gauge railroads
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 10:04 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and anything less is Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are 36" and 30". Was there any other sizes used on a powered narrow gauge railroad, not referring to mining track of 24 or 18 inch.
Mule


--
lloyd lehrer


Martin Fischer
 

Europe has or had
600 mm (little less than 2 feet)
750 mm (close to 302")
900 mm (almost 3')
1000 mm

Regards
Martin

Am 02.03.2021 um 19:53 schrieb Climax@Mindspring.com:

PK, Lloyd,
Yes, I forgot about them.  Got a question though.  since the 24" Ry did exist up there were there any cases in higher winds were the cars would blow off the tracks or at least tip over due to wind?
Mule
-----Original Message-----
From: lloyd lehrer
Sent: Mar 2, 2021 1:13 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Narrow Gauge
hey Mule, did you forget the maine 2 footers and the meter gauge
railroads
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097
On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 10:04 AM <Climax@mindspring.com
<mailto:Climax@mindspring.com>> wrote:
We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and
anything less is Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are
36" and 30". Was there any other sizes used on a powered narrow
gauge railroad, not referring to mining track of 24 or 18 inch.
Mule
--
lloyd lehrer


RG Teeter
 

Maine 2 footers were known to derail due to ice conditions. Also 1 of them had a new locomotive with no baffles in the water tank. It came to a stop, then fell over. Baflles were added.

Bob in Florida - who once followed WW&F track alignment in the, if I recall correctly, Boothbay area.

On 2 Mar 2021, at 13:53, Climax@... <Climax@...> wrote:

PK, Lloyd, 
Yes, I forgot about them.  Got a question though.  since the 24" Ry did exist up there were there any cases in higher winds were the cars would blow off the tracks or at least tip over due to wind?
Mule

-----Original Message----- 
From: lloyd lehrer 
Sent: Mar 2, 2021 1:13 PM 
To: HOn3@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Narrow Gauge 

hey Mule, did you forget the maine 2 footers and the meter gauge railroads
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 10:04 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and anything less is Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are 36" and 30". Was there any other sizes used on a powered narrow gauge railroad, not referring to mining track of 24 or 18 inch.
Mule



-- 
lloyd lehrer


Mike Conder
 

Arizona had at least 3 mining roads of 20" gauge, and at least one hauled passengers and freight.  One had a 10-ton 0-4-0 on 20" rails, should be about 5,000# tractive effort. 

And yeah, it looked awkward but I have never found any info on wrecks. 

Mike Conder

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 12:21 PM RG Teeter via groups.io <rteeter01=icloud.com@groups.io> wrote:
Maine 2 footers were known to derail due to ice conditions. Also 1 of them had a new locomotive with no baffles in the water tank. It came to a stop, then fell over. Baflles were added.

Bob in Florida - who once followed WW&F track alignment in the, if I recall correctly, Boothbay area.

On 2 Mar 2021, at 13:53, Climax@... <Climax@...> wrote:

PK, Lloyd, 
Yes, I forgot about them.  Got a question though.  since the 24" Ry did exist up there were there any cases in higher winds were the cars would blow off the tracks or at least tip over due to wind?
Mule

-----Original Message----- 
From: lloyd lehrer 
Sent: Mar 2, 2021 1:13 PM 
To: HOn3@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Narrow Gauge 

hey Mule, did you forget the maine 2 footers and the meter gauge railroads
lloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097


On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 10:04 AM <Climax@...> wrote:
We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and anything less is Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are 36" and 30". Was there any other sizes used on a powered narrow gauge railroad, not referring to mining track of 24 or 18 inch.
Mule



-- 
lloyd lehrer

--
Mike Conder


Nigel Phillips
 

If you mean passenger and freight requiring appropriate government approval how about the following:

Zero gauge. Lartigue monorail (several countries, one example was the Listowel and Ballybunion Railway in Ireland.

Wales. 1' 11.5" Festiniog Railway; 2' 3"Talyllyn Railway;

England. 1' 11.5" Lynton and Barnstable Railway; 



On Tuesday, March 2, 2021, <Climax@...> wrote:
We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and anything less is Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are 36" and 30". Was there any other sizes used on a powered narrow gauge railroad, not referring to mining track of 24 or 18 inch.
Mule


Nigel Phillips
 

And of course several thousand kilometers of meter gauge in Europe.

Standard gauge was adopted after the engineering success of Brunel's broad gauge. Standard gauge was referred to at the time as narrow gauge. 

The Washington DC metro is technically narrow gauge at 4' 8.25" .

The Hajaz Railway that runs from Damascus to Medina in the middle east. 850 miles, 3' 5 and 11 /32" (1050 mm). Jordan puts on a tourist train using I think a Baldwin.

In Scotland the Glasgow metro is 4'.

Pittsburg and Castle Shannon Railroad, 3' 4".






On Tuesday, March 2, 2021, Nigel Phillips via groups.io <nigelp18000=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
If you mean passenger and freight requiring appropriate government approval how about the following:

Zero gauge. Lartigue monorail (several countries, one example was the Listowel and Ballybunion Railway in Ireland.

Wales. 1' 11.5" Festiniog Railway; 2' 3"Talyllyn Railway;
I
England. 1' 11.5" Lynton and Barnstable Railway; 



On Tuesday, March 2, 2021, <Climax@...> wrote:
We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and anything less is Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are 36" and 30". Was there any other sizes used on a powered narrow gauge railroad, not referring to mining track of 24 or 18 inch.
Mule


Mick Moignard
 

Glyn Valley Tramway in Wales was 2’4.5” (724mm) and Snailbeach District Tramway (a lead mining line) in Shropshire was 2’4 (711mm).  600mm and occasionally 610mm were common gauges in UK for mineral railways.

Mick
________________________________
Mick Moignard
m: +44 7774 652504
Skype: mickmoignard

The week may start M,T but it always ends WTF.


Brian Kopp
 

The Gilpin Tram (later Railroad) and the Silver City, Pinos Altos and Mogollon were both 2 footers. True they supported mining operations but they existed for the purpose of transportation to and from, the mine, not really for the purpose of going in and out of the mines themselves.
--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Sean
 

42” in Canada in an island? Some of the side dumps went to WP&Y on 3’ trucks

Sean


On Mar 2, 2021, at 12:18, Nigel Phillips <nigelp18000@...> wrote:

If you mean passenger and freight requiring appropriate government approval how about the following:

Zero gauge. Lartigue monorail (several countries, one example was the Listowel and Ballybunion Railway in Ireland.

Wales. 1' 11.5" Festiniog Railway; 2' 3"Talyllyn Railway;

England. 1' 11.5" Lynton and Barnstable Railway; 



On Tuesday, March 2, 2021, <Climax@...> wrote:
We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and anything less is Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are 36" and 30". Was there any other sizes used on a powered narrow gauge railroad, not referring to mining track of 24 or 18 inch.
Mule


prichie@...
 

There is also 3'6" and 2'6" railways in Australia as well as standard gauge, and broad gauge 5'3" in
Victoria i and South Australia . Paul R. Vic, Aus.

On Thu, Jan 1st, 1970 at 10:00 AM, Climax@Mindspring.com wrote:

PK, Lloyd, Yes, I forgot about them.  Got a question though.  since the
24" Ry did exist up there were there any cases in higher winds were the
cars would blow off the tracks or at least tip over due to wind?Mule

-----Original Message-----

From: lloyd lehrer

Sent: Mar 2, 2021 1:13 PM

To: HOn3@groups.io

Subject: Re: [HOn3] Narrow Gauge



hey Mule, did you forget the maine 2 footers and the meter gauge
railroadslloyd lehrer, MANHATTAN BEACH, CA (310)951-9097

On Tue, Mar 2, 2021 at 10:04 AM <Climax@mindspring.com> wrote:
We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and anything less is
Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are 36" and 30". Was there any
other sizes used on a powered narrow gauge railroad, not referring to
mining track of 24 or 18 inch.Mule







--
lloyd lehrer










John Stutz
 

Except where the national or regional standard gauge was 4'9" (PRR until ~1900!), 5', 5'3", 5'6", or 7'.  Or going the other way: 3'6"(Ecuador, Nicaragua, southern Africa, Nigeria, New Zealand, Japan, Queensland and Western Australia early on, ...), meter=39.37" (Thailand, Burma, Kenya, Uganda, Bolivia, northern Chile, northwestern Argentina and much of Brazil), or 36" (Guatemala, Colombia).  Colombia actually converted some formerly isolated meter gauge lines to the 36" national standard.  I will even argue that in Sierra Leone the 30" gauge of the government line was the national standard, and the 42" a heavy industrial broad gauge.

It's all relative to the national or regional standard, which varies with place and time.  The southeastern US standard was 5' until 1886, by which time those roads found it imperative to narrow down to the Pennsylvania's 4'9", in order to effectively interchange with the rest of the country across the Mason-Dixon line.

And what the standard is does not really matter, since the problems of building capable locomotives and rolling stock and effectively operating it on the narrower gauges, are intrinsic to the gauge, and only get worse where the regional standard places a heavy traffic on a narrower gauge.  That conflict is a major aspect of the narrow gauge's fascination.  As an extreme case, consider how the Brazilians are recycling recent generation, high horsepower US CC diesels into meter gauge BB+BBs, to handle iron ore traffic comparable to what once operated in the Mesabi Range.

John Stutz

On March 2, 2021 10:04 AM climax@... wrote:


We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and anything less is Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are 36" and 30". Was there any other sizes used on a powered narrow gauge railroad, not referring to mining track of 24 or 18 inch.
Mule


Robert Bennett
 

Hi Folks,

The Maine two foot gauge equipment was generally no more susceptable to wind issues than any other; ice could be a problem depending on thickness. The fact that the rolling stock and locos were pretty low helped to offset the narrowness of the track gauge and aided stability. The loco that had water issues in the tender was SR&RL #24. Built by Baldwin, the company apparently misread the blueprints and built the tender to a width of 8' 4" (100") rather than the specified 84". When the water levels got low, as Linwood Moody stated, the tender started to "oscillate" and not long after delivery the little 2-6-2 rolled over on a bridge in Madrid, north of Phillips, and dumped a bunch of cars, and herself, overboard. The Phillips shops cut out the extra metal and 24 served well 'till the end of the line in 1935.

Bob Bennett


Dave Eggleston
 

Let's not forget Heywood's 15" gauge lines. Not mining, industrial or playground, these were meant as serious operations with equipment: Duffield Bank, Eaton Hall and Ravenglass and Eksdale.

As to wind, the 3' gauge Colorado Central near Georgetown had several trains blow over, as well as the occasional car. In Patagonia the 750mm line (just under 30") had at least one complete train blow over. None of this is about gauge; a strong enough wind will blow over a train of any gauge. 

Dave Eggleston
Seattle, WA


Climax@...
 

My wife and I took the Mt. Wasington tram RR up to the top one fall day.  When we got to the top there was a blizzard going on.  The roof of the coach car was bouncing up and down, the car was steady on the track but they would not let us off and immediately started us back down.  It was a real eye opener as to the record wind speeds they get up there all the time.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Eggleston via groups.io"
Sent: Mar 2, 2021 4:54 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Narrow Gauge

Let's not forget Heywood's 15" gauge lines. Not mining, industrial or playground, these were meant as serious operations with equipment: Duffield Bank, Eaton Hall and Ravenglass and Eksdale.

As to wind, the 3' gauge Colorado Central near Georgetown had several trains blow over, as well as the occasional car. In Patagonia the 750mm line (just under 30") had at least one complete train blow over. None of this is about gauge; a strong enough wind will blow over a train of any gauge. 

Dave Eggleston
Seattle, WA


Ian McKinley
 

I am a little late to this party but wanted to mention that there were many 42 inch gauge railroads in the United States. One gentleman has compiled a list.  http://www.raccooncrkrwy.com/42gauge.HTM  

Ian

On 3/2/2021 12:04 PM, Climax@... wrote:
We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and anything less is Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are 36" and 30". Was there any other sizes used on a powered narrow gauge railroad, not referring to mining track of 24 or 18 inch.
Mule


Mike Conder
 

I'm also late here (unless I'm just repeating myself!) but there were at least three 20" mining lines on Arizona.  One even had a 10-ton 0-4-0 hauling ore and other cars. 

Mike Conder

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 4:30 PM Ian McKinley <ianmckinleyrailroad@...> wrote:

I am a little late to this party but wanted to mention that there were many 42 inch gauge railroads in the United States. One gentleman has compiled a list.  http://www.raccooncrkrwy.com/42gauge.HTM  

Ian

On 3/2/2021 12:04 PM, Climax@... wrote:
We all know that standard gauge is 4'8" between rails and anything less is Narrow gauge.  Perhaps the standards there are 36" and 30". Was there any other sizes used on a powered narrow gauge railroad, not referring to mining track of 24 or 18 inch.
Mule

--
Mike Conder