MDC/Roundhouse gramps and conoco tank cars


@Erik_The_Train_Fan
 

Hello everyone, I have recently started modeling in hon3 and recently learned that MDC made old time tank cars painted for gramps and conoco.
would these be the right size if I were to put hon3 trucks on them?
Thanks, -Erik


Don Bergman
 

Erik,

They are slightly different in size (the lettering is a little lower and the most noticeable difference) but I have several and in a string most visitors never notice.  An inexpensive way to expand your tank fleet.  When by themselves the differences are not very noticeable except to a us Narrow Gauge rivet counters.  🙂  I put 2 in the middle next to each other but there are 3 more in the mix including near the rear .  If the 2 Blackstone Gramps car were not in the mix the differences disappear in my opinion.

Don Bergman


s
 
Hello everyone, I have recently started modeling in hon3 and recently learned that MDC made old time tank cars painted for gramps and conoco.
would these be the right size if I were to put hon3 trucks on them?
Thanks, -Erik


John Stutz
 

Erik

They are about the right overall size.  Most of the tank cars operated on NG RRs were modified from older, obsolete SG cars, often by placing the tank shell on a new frame or flatcar.  The MDC/Roundhouse old timer tank models a SG design that succeeded the frameless Van Dyke tanks.  The shell is about the right size, 6,000 gallons nominal, but the frame is overly deep and wide, about 2x HO scale.  This need not be a problem, but if it is, a scale underframe has been available from Shapways.  Also, Precision Scale offers the body bolster from their Van Dyke kit separately, and this may allow modeling frameless tanks from the MDC shells. 

But if you just want to get some tank cars rolling, these are a good start.  You will need to adapt the coupler pocket to fit HOn3 couplers at the correct height, and may need to narrow the frame slightly so the trucks can pivot.  Perhaps even notch the frame over the truck to get it running low enough?  Figure out what is needed on a bare frame, and then build your fleet.

John Stutz

On September 27, 2021 4:36 PM erikdhobby@... wrote:


Hello everyone, I have recently started modeling in hon3 and recently learned that MDC made old time tank cars painted for gramps and conoco.
would these be the right size if I were to put hon3 trucks on them?
Thanks, -Erik


@Erik_The_Train_Fan
 

thanks for the info! I will definitely be getting some of these, I have been trying to find some affordable solutions to hon3 rolling stock


@Erik_The_Train_Fan
 

are there any other ho scale cars that are the right size for hon3?


Eric Schrowang
 

Erik, scratch building. Kits have become cost prohibitive to the average builder. I buy maybe 2 or 3 kits per year. The rest I scratch build. San Juan details has some great parts for narrow gauge cars.. Pickup Harry Brunks book Up Clear Creek on The Narrow Gauge. Great reference.


kevin b
 

are there any other ho scale cars that are the right size for hon3?

hello Eric.

i had 100 of these cars special made for me by micro trains a while back.
(picture at bottom of page)
I still have a few if you're interested.
price: 45 dollars each plus shipping.

feel free to ask any questions.

thanks.
Kevin.


RICHARD DONNA BELL
 

I am interested in one of the cars if still available.

Contact: Bell_1_05@...

 

Thanks,

Dick Bell

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: kevin b via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2021 3:55 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] MDC/Roundhouse gramps and conoco tank cars

 

are there any other ho scale cars that are the right size for hon3?

 

hello Eric.

 

i had 100 of these cars special made for me by micro trains a while back.

(picture at bottom of page)

I still have a few if you're interested.

price: 45 dollars each plus shipping.

 

feel free to ask any questions.

 

thanks.

Kevin.

 

 


kevin b
 

sent you an email to      Bell......@msn.....
thanks.
Kevin.

I am interested in one of the cars if still available.

Contact: Bell_1_05@...

 

Thanks,

Dick Bell

  


 

John - On the general subject of tank cars I have a question about that old refinery that was somewhere on the D&RGW.  I've seen only one photo of it showing the railroad siding but no further info.  Do you have any knowledge of other images or info to help modeling the actual facility?  Any chance it appears on a Sanborn map? 
Ed Weldon


Earl Knoob
 

There were refineries in Farmington and Alamosa that were served by the narrow gauge.  The Alamosa refinery lasted the longest - until late 1964.


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of Ed Weldon <23.weldon@...>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2021 9:32 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: Re: [HOn3] MDC/Roundhouse gramps and conoco tank cars
 
John - On the general subject of tank cars I have a question about that old refinery that was somewhere on the D&RGW.  I've seen only one photo of it showing the railroad siding but no further info.  Do you have any knowledge of other images or info to help modeling the actual facility?  Any chance it appears on a Sanborn map? 
Ed Weldon


John Stutz
 

Ed

Dave Grandt is my personal authority on this subject.  He has done a NNGC clinic on the subject.  Let's hope he chimes in.

Alamosa had the "Gramps" refinery, using raw oil from Chama to serve the local area until 1964, a Earl noted.  I am not so sure about a Farmington refinery. Dorman's book covering Alamosa may have some photos, but this is not a subject I have pursued in any detail.

The regional refining center was at Salt Lake, with something like several hundred times Alamosa's capacity.  One of the principal early SW Colorado oil traffics was from Farmington via D&RG NG and RGS to Montrose, for transfer to SG, and then on to Salt Lake.  I think the RGS's Aimes slide put a halt to that, the traffic rerouting via Salida. 

John

On September 28, 2021 8:32 PM Ed Weldon <23.weldon@...> wrote:


John - On the general subject of tank cars I have a question about that old refinery that was somewhere on the D&RGW.  I've seen only one photo of it showing the railroad siding but no further info.  Do you have any knowledge of other images or info to help modeling the actual facility?  Any chance it appears on a Sanborn map? 
Ed Weldon


 

John and Earl, Thank you for the info on refineries.  Lots of good starts to search the net. 


dave
 

Here are  photos from the Grandt collection of Farmington. the Alamosa Oil transfer, and an overview of the Refinery and transfer area in Alamosa.

here were several bulk petroleum dealers throughout the Colorado narrow gauge system


Dale Buxton
 

Dave, 
The Farmington plant looked pretty spartan. Was it a full-on refinery or just a natural gas separator to make the petroleum safer for tank car shipment?
Dale


On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 12:16 PM dave <davegrandt@...> wrote:
Here are  photos from the Grandt collection of Farmington. the Alamosa Oil transfer, and an overview of the Refinery and transfer area in Alamosa.

here were several bulk petroleum dealers throughout the Colorado narrow gauge system


Mike Conder
 

AFAIK and IIRC the Farmington refinery was not just a topping plant but was a full distillation design making gasoline, kerosene, oils, etc.  I don’t think it had a catalytic reactor so was limited in comparison to refineries on the Gulf Coast and elsewhere. 

Mike Conder

On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 3:59 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
Dave, 
The Farmington plant looked pretty spartan. Was it a full-on refinery or just a natural gas separator to make the petroleum safer for tank car shipment?
Dale

On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 12:16 PM dave <davegrandt@...> wrote:
Here are  photos from the Grandt collection of Farmington. the Alamosa Oil transfer, and an overview of the Refinery and transfer area in Alamosa.

here were several bulk petroleum dealers throughout the Colorado narrow gauge system

--
Mike Conder


Dale Buxton
 

Thanks Mike. Obviously very small distillation towers. I wonder what it's output capacity was?

Dale

On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 9:42 PM Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
AFAIK and IIRC the Farmington refinery was not just a topping plant but was a full distillation design making gasoline, kerosene, oils, etc.  I don’t think it had a catalytic reactor so was limited in comparison to refineries on the Gulf Coast and elsewhere. 

Mike Conder

On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 3:59 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
Dave, 
The Farmington plant looked pretty spartan. Was it a full-on refinery or just a natural gas separator to make the petroleum safer for tank car shipment?
Dale

On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 12:16 PM dave <davegrandt@...> wrote:
Here are  photos from the Grandt collection of Farmington. the Alamosa Oil transfer, and an overview of the Refinery and transfer area in Alamosa.

here were several bulk petroleum dealers throughout the Colorado narrow gauge system

--
Mike Conder


Mike Conder
 

I’ve never seen an exact figure but I’d guess 5,000 BBL/day or less. 

Mike Conder

On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 6:14 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
Thanks Mike. Obviously very small distillation towers. I wonder what it's output capacity was?

Dale

On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 9:42 PM Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
AFAIK and IIRC the Farmington refinery was not just a topping plant but was a full distillation design making gasoline, kerosene, oils, etc.  I don’t think it had a catalytic reactor so was limited in comparison to refineries on the Gulf Coast and elsewhere. 

Mike Conder

On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 3:59 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
Dave, 
The Farmington plant looked pretty spartan. Was it a full-on refinery or just a natural gas separator to make the petroleum safer for tank car shipment?
Dale

On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 12:16 PM dave <davegrandt@...> wrote:
Here are  photos from the Grandt collection of Farmington. the Alamosa Oil transfer, and an overview of the Refinery and transfer area in Alamosa.

here were several bulk petroleum dealers throughout the Colorado narrow gauge system

--
Mike Conder

--
Mike Conder


Dale Buxton
 

WOW! That's actually quite a bit of product for those days. That's way more finished product capacity than all the Conoco, CYCX and TCX tank cars in service could handle between 1924 to 29'. 

I also did some quick math on the crude gallons being moved on the RGS between 1924ish to 1929 Era. It comes in at 60,000 to 65,000 a week, depending on the tank car's capacity. The RGS was moving approximately 10 car trains of narrow frame UTLX cars in this time period. But, only once a week. (Full cars north and empty cars south). 

I found a web page with a deep background history of oil and gas in Farmington, NM. https://nmgs.nmt.edu/publications/guidebooks/downloads/28/28_p0083_p0089.pdf
There seem to have been a bunch of export pipelines radiating out around Farmington and Aztec starting right from the beginning of the discovery of natural gas in the basin. Most of them were for natural gas but a few were for crude. Conoco it seems, hit it big in the area. Hence the Refinery. Pipelines seem to be where the lion's share of the oil was going almost from the very beginning. It seems that the basin was producing far more than the little Farmington refinery could refine. And the article just read says the Farmington refinery was the largest of five in the basin. You sure wouldn't know that from that picture that Dave Grandt posted. It looks tiny compared to the one in Alamosa.

Dave Grandt or Steve Swanson told me that the UTLX cars moving road oil were only doing it in the summers before WWII and then again after the war. The first road oil trains were when The CCC boys were working on the roads in the Four Corners part of the country. But, helium was discovered in the basin during the war so there must have been more road oil movements then too. Helium was a strategic war material and the  roads to those wells were between Mesa Verde and Shiprock. Steve Swanson has told me that the UTLX road oil cars were parked in Alamosa in the road oiling off-season.

All of this makes for great background information for modeling tank trains on the RGS.

Very cool!
Dale


On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:48 PM Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
I’ve never seen an exact figure but I’d guess 5,000 BBL/day or less. 

Mike Conder

On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 6:14 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
Thanks Mike. Obviously very small distillation towers. I wonder what it's output capacity was?

Dale

On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 9:42 PM Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
AFAIK and IIRC the Farmington refinery was not just a topping plant but was a full distillation design making gasoline, kerosene, oils, etc.  I don’t think it had a catalytic reactor so was limited in comparison to refineries on the Gulf Coast and elsewhere. 

Mike Conder

On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 3:59 PM Dale Buxton <dbtuathaddana@...> wrote:
Dave, 
The Farmington plant looked pretty spartan. Was it a full-on refinery or just a natural gas separator to make the petroleum safer for tank car shipment?
Dale

On Sat, Oct 2, 2021 at 12:16 PM dave <davegrandt@...> wrote:
Here are  photos from the Grandt collection of Farmington. the Alamosa Oil transfer, and an overview of the Refinery and transfer area in Alamosa.

here were several bulk petroleum dealers throughout the Colorado narrow gauge system

--
Mike Conder

--
Mike Conder