Locomotive Wheel Wiper Installation Help


ColoRyan
 

Rookie here looking for suggestions on installing wheel wipers for improved pickup in the tank locomotive pictured below.

I was thinking of using PC board and Phosphor Bronze sheets (using the Tomar Contact Wipers kit) to fashion wipers on the backs of the wheels but I'm not seeing much space to make that happen. Should I try Phosphor Bronze wire instead? Is there an alternative to PC board?

FYI, the picture is looking down on the loco with the boiler removed.


Alan Kilby
 

Cloverhouse has phosphor bronze wire and sheet.You can make pickups to touch tires or flange top, they stay cleaner on back of wheels.Ahm rivarossi locos use both wire and flat phosphor bronze pickups,examples of each are found on ahm 0-4-0 locos.The wire ones have a hook like bend that contacts flange.
Alan


From: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io> on behalf of ColoRyan <rhickman213@...>
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 1:43:40 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io <HOn3@groups.io>
Subject: [HOn3] Locomotive Wheel Wiper Installation Help
 
Rookie here looking for suggestions on installing wheel wipers for improved pickup in the tank locomotive pictured below.

I was thinking of using PC board and Phosphor Bronze sheets (using the Tomar Contact Wipers kit) to fashion wipers on the backs of the wheels but I'm not seeing much space to make that happen. Should I try Phosphor Bronze wire instead? Is there an alternative to PC board?

FYI, the picture is looking down on the loco with the boiler removed.


Robert Bell
 

I have made new cover plates from double-sided PC board with 0.020" phosphor bronze wire from Tichy.  I have a milling machine to mill out the hole for the drive gear and to separate the right and left sides on the bottom of the plate.  I did order slightly longer metric screws off eBay to mount them with.  See the attached photo.

Rob Bell
Modeling the White Pass & Yukon Route in HOn3
Waynesville, NC



Inline image

On Monday, February 15, 2021, 04:43:43 PM EST, ColoRyan <rhickman213@...> wrote:


Rookie here looking for suggestions on installing wheel wipers for improved pickup in the tank locomotive pictured below.

I was thinking of using PC board and Phosphor Bronze sheets (using the Tomar Contact Wipers kit) to fashion wipers on the backs of the wheels but I'm not seeing much space to make that happen. Should I try Phosphor Bronze wire instead? Is there an alternative to PC board?

FYI, the picture is looking down on the loco with the boiler removed.


ColoRyan
 

Thanks for the tips Robert and Alan!

The other part of the install I'm struggling with is where to affix the PC board as there's quite a bit of detail on both the bottom and top of the engines. Perhaps I need to remove the rods, cylinders, DC motor, and driveshafts to get a better idea?


Mark Kasprowicz
 

Looks like a Uintah Mallet. Don't remove running gear unless you're comfortable with putting it back together. If you do, take photos of each stage and be sure that when taping the parts down on card that you label them.
Many wiper installs start underneath the loco and work on the backs of the wheels. You have six axles and while the more pickups the better, picking up on three perhaps four will be enough. Establish whether one side of the drivers are shorted to the axles and therefore the frame. (Buy a cheap multimeter) If it is then you only need to put wipers on the insulated side. Rob's set up acts on all 8 drivers and that's important because he can equalise the wire pressure on both sides of the axle keeping it cemtralised. If the wipers need to be on one side only be care not to apply too much pressure on the backs of the wheel to push the drivers to one side of the axle, it might create slight binds.
Many conversions use thin PCB or, if you can get it, copper clad Kapton though it's difficult to find in small and affordable quantities. I epoxy my Kapton to the base plate. I use thinner phosphor bronze wire, 0.015" because I only usually fix wipers to one side and thinner wire creates less pressure. Rob keeps the wipers long and therefore flexible and that is also an important point.

Mark K


ColoRyan
 

Thanks for your input Mark. I'm intrigued by the copper clad Kapton tape. Do you solder the phosphor bronze wire to the Kapton or epoxy that too? Seems like it'd be pretty sensitive to heat while soldering.

Is there a picture of one of your installs? That would really help me understand how to attach the phosphor bronze wire to the Kapton. I'm just really struggling to see how I'll fit wipers anywhere given the lack of room.


Climax@...
 

"Are these the copper clappers that were in the copped copper clapper caper investigated by cops?", said Sargent Friday.

-----Original Message-----
From: ColoRyan
Sent: Feb 18, 2021 9:29 AM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] Locomotive Wheel Wiper Installation Help

Thanks for your input Mark. I'm intrigued by the copper clad Kapton tape. Do you solder the phosphor bronze wire to the Kapton or epoxy that too? Seems like it'd be pretty sensitive to heat while soldering.

Is there a picture of one of your installs? That would really help me understand how to attach the phosphor bronze wire to the Kapton. I'm just really struggling to see how I'll fit wipers anywhere given the lack of room.


Mark Kasprowicz
 

Correct, counterfieted copper Kapton clappers created criminally by Croatian copper cladding criminals were correctly captured by cautious cops closing in on crazy copying  capers. "Just the facts Ma'am, just the facts."


Mark Kasprowicz
 

I'll dig one out to show. The phosphor bronze wire is soldered to the Copper Clad Kapton (curse you Mule, I cannot get it out of my head now!!!). It's very resiliant to heat and the epoxy holding it to the base plate is as well to a degree. I only use 'normal; 60-40 solder and so the temperatures are not that high. Lead free's solder require higher temps and I'm not sure how that would work out.
The thing is to find it. The last piece I got was from the Czech Republic.
Mark K


Jim Spencer
 

Just wondering - whether putting wheel wipers on drivers will accelerate wear on the worm gear drives? Also would putting them on one side cause uneven wear on the drive wheel bearings?

Instead of wipers, is there consideration of using the lead and trailing trucks for pick up? They can simulate the inherently better pick up of a tender (if you have a 2-6-6-2T, for instance). But the the lead and trailing trucks typically have both wheels insulated. So I have drilled through the wheel tires, through the insulation and into the axles. Then inserted a tight fitting brass wire and soldered it to the rim. Then filed the rim smooth. Then test for conductivity.

You can do this on both sides in order to get both wheels conducting. Then if you are trying to improve conduction on the insulated side of the loco, you can use insulating washers at the pivot screw and solder a fine multi-strand wire #30 or 35 at the butt end and feed that wire to the motor or your decoder.

This is a heck of a lot easier than wipers.


Russ Norris
 

I put phosphor bronze wires on my drivers some ten years ago (with the advice of Laurie MacLean) and they are still working fine.  You only need them to lightly touch the rim or back of the wheel. With four drivers on my EBT 2-8-2. I have had great success.  The engine goes over switches and dead spots without difficulty.  I will add that I also use a keep alive connected to the decoder (I'm a belt and suspenders man) so performance doesn't surprise me.  But it doesn't seem to add any load to the pulling power of the engine.

Russ

On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 1:29 PM Jim Spencer <trainmanjs@...> wrote:

Just wondering - whether putting wheel wipers on drivers will accelerate wear on the worm gear drives? Also would putting them on one side cause uneven wear on the drive wheel bearings?

Instead of wipers, is there consideration of using the lead and trailing trucks for pick up? They can simulate the inherently better pick up of a tender (if you have a 2-6-6-2T, for instance). But the the lead and trailing trucks typically have both wheels insulated. So I have drilled through the wheel tires, through the insulation and into the axles. Then inserted a tight fitting brass wire and soldered it to the rim. Then filed the rim smooth. Then test for conductivity.

You can do this on both sides in order to get both wheels conducting. Then if you are trying to improve conduction on the insulated side of the loco, you can use insulating washers at the pivot screw and solder a fine multi-strand wire #30 or 35 at the butt end and feed that wire to the motor or your decoder.

This is a heck of a lot easier than wipers.


--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/


John Stutz
 

Alternatives:

Not having access to Mark's copper clad Kapton tape, I have substituted copper clad printed circuit board for the bottom retainer, and soldered pickups to that.  Of course the copper needs to be split down the middle, and removed under the attaching screws.  If you can find it, the old brown cotton-Bakelite board does not dull tools so quickly as the green glass-fibre board.  Nylon screws can help avoid short circuits.

Self-adhesive copper wiring tape, basically copper foil strips, could be substituted, on a plastic retainer, or on the original brass retainer over a layer of insulating paper.  Any good grade of paper should suffice, glued on with a solvent type rubber base cement like Goo or Barge, that resists soldering temperatures.

A pin and socket wiring connection is advisable,  whenever the bottom retainer is used for electrical contact.

Ian Rice, in his books on constructing British etched brass and white metal (semi-solder tin base alloy) locomotive kits, advocated using very light pressure applied over very small contact areas, to achieve good electrical contact with minimum drag and wear on wheels.  So he bent the contact wire's end to stand square to the driver's back.   If the wiper tends to move off of the driver, run the bent end through a small loop of wire that is soldered to the buss strip just behind the tire.

Tichy currently offers suitably springy bronze wire down to 0.008", and perhaps smaller.  Note that, other things being equal, wire stiffness is proportional to the third power of the diameter: a 0.010" wire is about twice as stiff as an 0.008" wire.  So wire size selection may take a few trials.

John Stutz