Topics

HOW MUCH?

Mark Kasprowicz
 

This might make you smile. On Ebay at present there is a Blackstone Protraxx Starter set which originally sold for around $80. The highest bid is $810.00 and there is still time to go.

Mark K

Mark Lewis
 

Mark:

I wonder if it's the same bidder, who has paid over $900.00 for a BS K27, over $800.00 for a BS C19 and $275.00 for a BS Caboose?  🤔

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


On Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 3:46 AM Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:
This might make you smile. On Ebay at present there is a Blackstone Protraxx Starter set which originally sold for around $80. The highest bid is $810.00 and there is still time to go.

Mark K

kevin b
 

I wonder if it's the same bidder, who has paid over $900.00 for a BS K27, over $800.00 for a BS C19 and $275.00 for a BS Caboose? 🤔


and that makes me wonder who is bidding against him to ruin 'em up so high.

Russ Norris
 

The guy must be rolling in dough.

Russ

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 6:47 AM Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:
Mark:

I wonder if it's the same bidder, who has paid over $900.00 for a BS K27, over $800.00 for a BS C19 and $275.00 for a BS Caboose?  🤔

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


On Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 3:46 AM Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:
This might make you smile. On Ebay at present there is a Blackstone Protraxx Starter set which originally sold for around $80. The highest bid is $810.00 and there is still time to go.

Mark K


--
Russ Norris, MMR
Cape Cod, Massachusetts
http://blacklogvalleyrailroad.blogspot.com/

Dale Buxton
 

The prices people ask and pay on Ebay have just gone insane over the last two years.

Certainly inflation has played a part here. But the rapid inflation of HOn3 prices on Ebay is far, far greater than the rate of inflation. It’s just plain and simple GREED!

There has been a proliferation of estate liquidators and a lot of false statements about item rarities. 

For instance. I love it when a seller says that a Westside No. 278 C-16 is extremely rare. And then puts a $800 price tag on it. What planet does this seller live on? All I can say is. Dream on!

 Before he died, Dick Truesdale (spelling) published a scan on the old HOn3 list of his production records for the 278. Over a number of years, he imported about 4000 of the them from Kodoma! Only about 200 (I think it’s actually less) of these were the high grade versions with cab interiors and micro motors.

There were also about 1000 C-25’s produced. Another model that often has unrealistically high asking prices.

There is a lot of charlatanism praying on buyer ignorance on Ebay these days. There are also very few ways for new hobbyists to weed through these claims and get a fair price. 

With local model train shops disappearing faster than the Ice caps. Where does a hobbyist go for accurate information on fair pricing?

There are just not enough people that were around when these models came out that remember the original prices or numbers produced. Or a consistent way of finding this information. Brass Trains.com does have a brass model history list. But, even it is not entirely accurate all of the time.

Now more than ever on Ebay. Caveat Emptor! 

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 04:47 Mark Lewis <narrowrails12@...> wrote:
Mark:

I wonder if it's the same bidder, who has paid over $900.00 for a BS K27, over $800.00 for a BS C19 and $275.00 for a BS Caboose?  🤔

Mark Lewis 
Narrow gauge modeling in N.C.


On Sun, Feb 16, 2020, 3:46 AM Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:
This might make you smile. On Ebay at present there is a Blackstone Protraxx Starter set which originally sold for around $80. The highest bid is $810.00 and there is still time to go.

Mark K

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Mark,

Sounds like it might be. If it is he got the better deal on the K-27 than the track!
Many years ago there was a buyer on Ebay who bought every decent brass model from Westside and PSC that came up on Ebay. He'd set a high bid and let everyone try and out bid him. I know for a fact that a couple of people (and they were on this list) used to push the price up for kicks knowing that he would ultimately win. They always seem to know when to stop. I don't think they ever got stuck with an overpriced item.
This could be the same or it could just be the Ebay red viel of course.

Mark K

Mike Conder
 

My favorite was a Rail Line box car kit, unbuilt, that sold for over $100 when it was available on the shelf at Caboose for under $12. 

Mike Conder

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 5:51 AM Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:
Mark,

Sounds like it might be. If it is he got the better deal on the K-27 than the track!
Many years ago there was a buyer on Ebay who bought every decent brass model from Westside and PSC that came up on Ebay. He'd set a high bid and let everyone try and out bid him. I know for a fact that a couple of people (and they were on this list) used to push the price up for kicks knowing that he would ultimately win. They always seem to know when to stop. I don't think they ever got stuck with an overpriced item.
This could be the same or it could just be the Ebay red viel of course.

Mark K

 

Dale - You are spot on. 
But for every crazy high price there is a bargain on eBay.  Here's a tip for finding them. Do an "HOn3" search on eBay at around 9-10pm eastern time and narrow it to only "buy it nows".  Here you are casting for the seller who on the spur of the moment wants to sell something fast.  Sunday, Wednesday and Friday are good times for these types.  You still have to know the street value of the item pretty well.  And you need to be able to read between the lines to gauge the seller and what he says.  This works especially well for scenery/structure item kits.  Do this also with an "HO" search narrowed to "parts and accessories".  And as usual be careful of inflated shipping costs.  Kinda like counting cards in blackjack of fly fishing.  Ed W

Mark Kasprowicz
 

If someone is prepared to pay $800.00 for a Kodama C-16 then so be it. If you are not that way inclined then do not buy it. Perhaps the root problem behind the rise in prices is supply and demand. There is at present no-one making anything specifically for HOn3. I don't mean structures or scenery, they're equally good for the biggest scale - HO, so they're common as dirt. But HOn3 has had no real new additions apart from DP's big K's costing $2K, for some time. A few years back there was MMI, Blackstone, Roundhouse and Microtrains all making RTR stuff. Take a look at an older Gazette and check how many of the companies involved in HOn3 making kits and RTR like cars, locomotives, track even (the biggest supplier of HOn3 track might just be PECO, a UK company!) are still trading. Some like Grandt and PSC may revive, we might even see a, HOn3 K-28 and K-36 flying past the window alongside a large flight of pigs but right now there is a vacuum. Did you notice that the first K-27's from both companies came out in 2006? My grandson was still in dipers then and he's now driving a car!

And to be honest, seeing the price increases of Chinese producted goods, I would not expect 2020 prices to be significantly lower that that Kodama c-16. I seriously believe those who say 'Cinese cheap' has gone forever.

Mark K

Dusty
 

The first things I look at on Ebay are 'sold' items under 'grandt', '(psc,precision scale) hon3' and 'hon3'.

I find it entertaining. Better than Laugh In or the Smothers Brothers. It baffles me how the same item will sell for 10 times what it sold for a few days before or after. A couple of years back I wouldn't bid more than 12 or 15 bucks on a virgin PSC kit with brass details and I bought a ton. I can't remember how many Grandt 3'7" trucks I bought for 2 or 3 bucks a pair in lots or 5 or 10.

Watching Ebay is a better entertainment  value than my Fire Stick!

Dusty Burman 

Dale Buxton
 

You are correct Mark. It is also a supply and demand thing. Most HOn3 brass was made in the 70’s and 80’s. So 40 to 50 years ago. A lot of new HOn3 hobbyists may not have even have been born yet.

The problem with these drastically over priced auctions is that the items don’t sell for months and months until Ebay finally tells them to take the item down and stop wasting their time and server space. I have actually heard of this happening!

I will take your no more cheep from China statement one step further. In the near future there will be no more cheep from any of Asia. This was a trend anyway but, the Trump Tariffs on China accelerated it.

No, personally I think it is more to do with the estate liquidators in the model train market that have proliferated with the passing of the “Greatest Generation” taking advantage of their widows and families. Paying pennies on the dollar for these treasures and asking for an exorbitant return on their investment from an uninformed clientele.

Recently I’ve been helping someone liquidate a large collection for the wife of a man suffering from dementia. I do this with no compensation for myself and I’m glad to do it.

Previously there had been one of these estate liquidators taking advantage of this poor woman before we got involved. I think many on this list would be shocked to discover that they know this person.

Sadly, this situation and the ones on Ebay are the old story of greed v/s ignorance over and  over again.

Dale B.

On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 12:28 Mark Kasprowicz <marowicz@...> wrote:
If someone is prepared to pay $800.00 for a Kodama C-16 then so be it. If you are not that way inclined then do not buy it. Perhaps the root problem behind the rise in prices is supply and demand. There is at present no-one making anything specifically for HOn3. I don't mean structures or scenery, they're equally good for the biggest scale - HO, so they're common as dirt. But HOn3 has had no real new additions apart from DP's big K's costing $2K, for some time. A few years back there was MMI, Blackstone, Roundhouse and Microtrains all making RTR stuff. Take a look at an older Gazette and check how many of the companies involved in HOn3 making kits and RTR like cars, locomotives, track even (the biggest supplier of HOn3 track might just be PECO, a UK company!) are still trading. Some like Grandt and PSC may revive, we might even see a, HOn3 K-28 and K-36 flying past the window alongside a large flight of pigs but right now there is a vacuum. Did you notice that the first K-27's from both companies came out in 2006? My grandson was still in dipers then and he's now driving a car!

And to be honest, seeing the price increases of Chinese producted goods, I would not expect 2020 prices to be significantly lower that that Kodama c-16. I seriously believe those who say 'Cinese cheap' has gone forever.

Mark K

Mark Kasprowicz
 

Dale, I think that's a very strong peice of advice you offer. Anyone who has anything of value, like a model RR collection, should have someone in the know, looking after their interersts shopiu;d they become incapable. A club friend, fellow modeller, someone like that who knows the value of the items and who could step in and prevent the predators from having their way.
There's the old joke which goes 'I hope I get back what I paid for it and not the amount I told my wife'.

Mark K

BTW, the track pack went for $810.00. There's one happy seller somewhere. What is it they say "a fool and his money are easily parted'. Amen to that.

Mike Settle
 

I have a few valuable things other than models. I have suggested in my will that these certain things will be either appraised and/or sold to a reputable dealer. I have specified reliable dealers in my will. Of course, my heirs can do as they will, but at least I will have done what I can to eliminate the vultures. And I know at least one guy that will probably be pounding on the door before my funeral.

Mike Settle

Climax@...
 

I have taken the more aggressive approach after collecting stuff since the early 1960's.  I have been selling it off on eBay myself so I can monitor things going on.  The funniest part is that, as an example someone is offering me only $50 for a FSM Coopers Garage.  I remember when these kits brought in over a hundred dollars a pop, but the prices have fallen, but not to only $50.  I will build it myself for that much.  So far I have sold off about 3 of my 7 cases of stuff for around $13K in the last 3 months, and I still have well over 400 wood built craftsman cars built and 300 pieces of brass.  As a matter of fact I just dug out a Diamond Scale Models 120 foot turntable with motor and indexing kit which I will put on eBay for $275.00.  I have carried that around from Detroit, to Key West, to Puerto Rico, to Orlando, to DFW TX, and back to Central Florida. The RR I have not just doesn't have room for it.  That is just a sample of what I'm selling so my kids and wife don't have to deal with it.  I have a buddy that we both will help with the estate of the other and trust each other with out question.  Sharks abound and even clubs take advantage of past model railroaders.  I had a close friend in Kennesaw GA which had a stroke and his local club came in to "help out".  They took about 3/4 of his model railroad stuff and only give him less than $2500.  I told him to stop.  I then flew up to Atlanta from DFW, rented a car, went to his house, and packed the remains up, shipped it to my house in Texas, and sold it on eBay.  I deducted my expenses (I could fly free) and gave him a check for nearly $10K for the balance of the 25%.  Local people are vultures and circle the dying then pick the bones apart.  After seeing that happen, knowing I will not beat the system, I chose to control the sale of my stuff while I can and have fun at it.  I was always told I can't take it with me, so there it goes.
I had every FSM kit produced up through Roadside Delights and a few after that.  I looked at the yellow stack one day and asked myself, am I really going to build these and the answer was not all of them.  So I sold off a bunch, now I'm reevaluating again, and more are going.  That's the way we should all be looking at this "stuff", and that's all it is is "stuff".  We are all pack rats and see things as useful but never get around to using them and forget the after while.  So we see something else and buy it only to find out we already have one or two or three of them on a shelf at home.  I have heard it said that if it weren't for closets model railroad manufacturers would go broke.  When I look around at others hording stuff for that ultimate layout, I have to agree.  So, as the kids say today, "let it go".

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Settle
Sent: Feb 17, 2020 12:36 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] HOW MUCH?

I have a few valuable things other than models. I have suggested in my will that these certain things will be either appraised and/or sold to a reputable dealer. I have specified reliable dealers in my will. Of course, my heirs can do as they will, but at least I will have done what I can to eliminate the vultures. And I know at least one guy that will probably be pounding on the door before my funeral.

Mike Settle

Climax@...
 

Reputable or reliable dealers are a fantasy.  Everyone knows Dan;s Brass models and I have known two instances where they only gave about 50% of the value to the owners of huge collections.  Dealers are in it to make money and that is a fact.  The more profit they can make themselves the better they like it.  I was offered only 50% when I inquired about starting to dispose of my collection and was actually insulted.  They all do it so its not just one person, they are in business and consider it an investment, no more.  Our idea that they will treat us right because we have been a good customer holds as much water as a screen door.  Your best bet is to take care of the sale yourself and start selling it off while you are still capable, remember nobody can take it with them.  Even the Egyptian Pharo's thought they could and had their elaborate tombs robbed.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Settle
Sent: Feb 17, 2020 12:36 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] HOW MUCH?

I have a few valuable things other than models. I have suggested in my will that these certain things will be either appraised and/or sold to a reputable dealer. I have specified reliable dealers in my will. Of course, my heirs can do as they will, but at least I will have done what I can to eliminate the vultures. And I know at least one guy that will probably be pounding on the door before my funeral.

Mike Settle

Stephen Silver
 

I have heard that those Egyptian tombs were looted of many cases of Blackstone passenger trucks. 


On Feb 17, 2020, at 1:33 PM, "Climax@..." <Climax@... wrote:


Reputable or reliable dealers are a fantasy.  Everyone knows Dan;s Brass models and I have known two instances where they only gave about 50% of the value to the owners of huge collections.  Dealers are in it to make money and that is a fact.  The more profit they can make themselves the better they like it.  I was offered only 50% when I inquired about starting to dispose of my collection and was actually insulted.  They all do it so its not just one person, they are in business and consider it an investment, no more.  Our idea that they will treat us right because we have been a good customer holds as much water as a screen door.  Your best bet is to take care of the sale yourself and start selling it off while you are still capable, remember nobody can take it with them.  Even the Egyptian Pharo's thought they could and had their elaborate tombs robbed.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Settle
Sent: Feb 17, 2020 12:36 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] HOW MUCH?

I have a few valuable things other than models. I have suggested in my will that these certain things will be either appraised and/or sold to a reputable dealer. I have specified reliable dealers in my will. Of course, my heirs can do as they will, but at least I will have done what I can to eliminate the vultures. And I know at least one guy that will probably be pounding on the door before my funeral.

Mike Settle

David Laverick
 

Great to have a big picture historic perspective. 

On Feb 17, 2020, at 3:44 PM, Stephen Silver via Groups.Io <ssilver996@...> wrote:

I have heard that those Egyptian tombs were looted of many cases of Blackstone passenger trucks. 


On Feb 17, 2020, at 1:33 PM, "Climax@..." <Climax@... wrote:


Reputable or reliable dealers are a fantasy.  Everyone knows Dan;s Brass models and I have known two instances where they only gave about 50% of the value to the owners of huge collections.  Dealers are in it to make money and that is a fact.  The more profit they can make themselves the better they like it.  I was offered only 50% when I inquired about starting to dispose of my collection and was actually insulted.  They all do it so its not just one person, they are in business and consider it an investment, no more.  Our idea that they will treat us right because we have been a good customer holds as much water as a screen door.  Your best bet is to take care of the sale yourself and start selling it off while you are still capable, remember nobody can take it with them.  Even the Egyptian Pharo's thought they could and had their elaborate tombs robbed.
Dave

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mike Settle 
Sent: Feb 17, 2020 12:36 PM 
To: HOn3@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [HOn3] HOW MUCH? 

I have a few valuable things other than models. I have suggested in my will that these certain things will be either appraised and/or sold to a reputable dealer. I have specified reliable dealers in my will. Of course, my heirs can do as they will, but at least I will have done what I can to eliminate the vultures. And I know at least one guy that will probably be pounding on the door before my funeral.

Mike Settle

Dusty
 

Concerning the 50% value. I'd rather sell to (non hoarder, non resaler) modelers at 50% than a dealer who already made 40% on the initial sale. Perhaps sell to modelers who could/would actually use the stuff. I'm a meat headed idealist, huh?

Dusty Burman 

Climax@...
 

I agree with you and use eBay to do the very thing.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Dusty
Sent: Feb 17, 2020 9:41 PM
To: HOn3@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HOn3] HOW MUCH?

Concerning the 50% value. I'd rather sell to (non hoarder, non resaler) modelers at 50% than a dealer who already made 40% on the initial sale. Perhaps sell to modelers who could/would actually use the stuff. I'm a meat headed idealist, huh?

Dusty Burman 

Lee Gustafson
 

The narrow gauge model community by its nature is rather small and close knit, as a result models do seem to change hands within that circle rather than the general market place. The limited production of narrow gauge models and smaller market for them often placed a premium price on those models. When a model changed hands it often occurred privately from one modeler to another. With the advent of the internet, eBay, an ageing demographic the way models change hands and their prices reflect the middle man i.e. dealer becoming involved in the process. I agree with Dusty I would rather sell a model to a modeler rather than a dealer. Thanks for reading and YMMV.

Lee Gustafson 


On Feb 17, 2020, at 8:41 PM, Dusty <dustburm@q.com> wrote:


Concerning the 50% value. I'd rather sell to (non hoarder, non resaler) modelers at 50% than a dealer who already made 40% on the initial sale. Perhaps sell to modelers who could/would actually use the stuff. I'm a meat headed idealist, huh?

Dusty Burman