HOn3 brass kits on Brasstrains today


Brian Kopp
 

I don't have the fortitude for it =) but I just noticed there are 3 HOn3 brass kits on Brasstrains.com today.....

--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


jhoff02@...
 

I would like to try to build one of these but don’t won’t to spend $500 for resistance soldering iron. Can they be built with regular soldering iron ? Jim


Mark Kasprowicz
 

I'm sure modelers have built brass kits using ordinary soldering irons. But if you're asking the questiion then perhaps a degree of caution is needed? I have an unbuilt Kemtron C-16 kit and I think I am the sixth owner. My wife bought it for me and I bought another brass C-16 but built to show her should she ever ask to see it. Luckily I have never had to lie as she has never asked.

Mark


Eric Schrowang
 

Folks,
I watched my grandfather build many On3 brass engines. He always used a resistance iron. Can you build a kit without it, I am sure you can, having said that I would not tackle a brass kit without it. You can get less expensive units at micromark.com. I am not sure how they preform maybe someone else here knows.

Eric

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 12:22 PM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@...> wrote:
I'm sure modelers have built brass kits using ordinary soldering irons. But if you're asking the questiion then perhaps a degree of caution is needed? I have an unbuilt Kemtron C-16 kit and I think I am the sixth owner. My wife bought it for me and I bought another brass C-16 but built to show her should she ever ask to see it. Luckily I have never had to lie as she has never asked.

Mark


Bill Lugg
 

I had one of the Micromark units.  I used it once and sold it.  I now use an American Beauty 250 watt unit and love it.  I have been using the tweezers to build turnouts, solder feeders on track and solder rail joints.  It works so much better than the iron I don't know why I didn't start using it years ago.

I've got a PSC brass WP bay window caboose to build.  I started it with an iron and quickly determined it was a fool's errand and set it aside until I could procure a RS unit.  Now that I have one, I'm looking forward to pulling it out and fixing what I screwed up and moving forward with it.

Bill Lugg

On 3/10/21 10:40 AM, Eric Schrowang wrote:
Folks,
I watched my grandfather build many On3 brass engines. He always used a resistance iron. Can you build a kit without it, I am sure you can, having said that I would not tackle a brass kit without it. You can get less expensive units at micromark.com <http://micromark.com>. I am not sure how they preform maybe someone else here knows.

Eric

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 12:22 PM Mark Kasprowicz <mark@kaspro.net <mailto:mark@kaspro.net>> wrote:

I'm sure modelers have built brass kits using ordinary soldering
irons. But if you're asking the questiion then perhaps a degree of
caution is needed? I have an unbuilt Kemtron C-16 kit and I think
I am the sixth owner. My wife bought it for me and I bought
another brass C-16 but built to show her should she ever ask to
see it. Luckily I have never had to lie as she has never asked.

Mark


Mike Conder
 

But $400 for an old kit?  I've picked up regular brass C-16's for $300, better motors etc.

Mike Conder

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 7:49 AM <jhoff02@...> wrote:
I would like to try to build one of these but don’t won’t to spend $500 for resistance soldering iron. Can they be built with regular soldering iron ? Jim


Brian Kopp
 

But Mike! you are missing out on the joy...and the frustration......and the swearing.....and burned fingers.....and being on your knees looking for that detail you dropped......

THATS what $400 buys!  =)
--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Mike Conder
 

Oh yeah, I can do that for about $4 ofnahwet brass and my old soldering iron!   And guess how I know? 😉

Mike Conder

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 5:22 PM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:

But Mike! you are missing out on the joy...and the frustration......and the swearing.....and burned fingers.....and being on your knees looking for that detail you dropped......

THATS what $400 buys!  =)
--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

--
Mike Conder


Nigel Phillips
 

Soldering iron versus resistance soldering. Difficult to build a brass kit using just one solder if using an iron. Can be done but takes a lot of patience. ideally start using high temperature solder for the major bits and then work down to the details using lower temperature solder. That way you don't melt previous work. Also needs a decent temperature controlled iron and some fine bits. Most kits I have built were not designed with a resistance iron in mind. Those old kits also suffer from less than precise etching (hand vs CAD) and often the wrong grade of brass. Detailing often uses metal castings, best put on with cyanoacrylate rather than solder. Easier than holding a dome in one hand, the iron in another, and the solder in the third one.

Old Korean and Japanese brass was often put together with a torch or large iron (non-electric), the assemblies being presoldered and held together with wire. 


On Wednesday, March 10, 2021, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
Oh yeah, I can do that for about $4 ofnahwet brass and my old soldering iron!   And guess how I know? 😉

Mike Conder

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 5:22 PM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:

But Mike! you are missing out on the joy...and the frustration......and the swearing.....and burned fingers.....and being on your knees looking for that detail you dropped......

THATS what $400 buys!  =)
--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

--
Mike Conder


Mick Moignard
 

I have a London Road Models RSU, and I have an Ersa Icon-1 soldering iron.  Since I bought the Icon-1 I have used the RSU very rarely.  Before I bought the Icon-1 I had made/repaired a lot of stuff including a PSC C-16 kit - which is largely the Kemtron design brought up to date -  mostly with the RSU and that worked well. I  also have done many quite complex soldering jobs, brass repairs, scratchbuilding, DCC installs, etc with the Icon-1, and highly recommend it.  It's a variable power and variable temperature military spec machine that can keep the tip at the set temperature +/- about 5degC.  If need be it can do 150W if the tip is trying to heat something big, but mostly runs a lot less than that.  

Bottom line is that if you have a high-powered soldering iron (50W or more) small enough to get into the kit parts, then use it and enjoy the kit.  If you need to buy, buy a decent RSU or an Icon-1.    But don't try to assemble a kit like these with a puny iron, or with glue. You will regret it.  

Mick
______________________________________________________________________
Mick Moignard
Specialising in DCC Sound
p: +44 7774 652504
e:
mick@...
skype: mickmoignard
The week may start M,T but it always ends up WTF!


martin feldwick
 

i have made brass master patterns etc for autos,train fittings  and weapons .No easy way to do it .I have also made UK etched loco kits .I tend to use a gas torch and bakers fluid and liquid solder The modern gas torches can get small but hot tips to their flame and  hit a small area with a very hot temperature .So I torch up the large parts ,wire it all up if possible and then  get working on the small parts piping last .I dri.l o/ut castings such as pumps to hold the pipes in place .A gas torch and liquid solder paste means you are not using three hands .its slash and burn and will slaughter your hands .I am sure a resistance unit is the way to go but I just dont do enough  to warrant buying one.Good luck .The unmade kits are around since the 70's because they are bastards to do .I always turned them down despite painting hundreds of brass trains for people.If you want to glue parts on try to pin it on and use araldite to glue it in place .,Its stronger than ACC but still weaker than solder .If you use low melt solder dont for get dont paint and bake or you will get paint and melt .

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 2:55 PM Mick Moignard <mick@...> wrote:
I have a London Road Models RSU, and I have an Ersa Icon-1 soldering iron.  Since I bought the Icon-1 I have used the RSU very rarely.  Before I bought the Icon-1 I had made/repaired a lot of stuff including a PSC C-16 kit - which is largely the Kemtron design brought up to date -  mostly with the RSU and that worked well. I  also have done many quite complex soldering jobs, brass repairs, scratchbuilding, DCC installs, etc with the Icon-1, and highly recommend it.  It's a variable power and variable temperature military spec machine that can keep the tip at the set temperature +/- about 5degC.  If need be it can do 150W if the tip is trying to heat something big, but mostly runs a lot less than that.  

Bottom line is that if you have a high-powered soldering iron (50W or more) small enough to get into the kit parts, then use it and enjoy the kit.  If you need to buy, buy a decent RSU or an Icon-1.    But don't try to assemble a kit like these with a puny iron, or with glue. You will regret it.  

Mick
______________________________________________________________________
Mick Moignard
Specialising in DCC Sound
p: +44 7774 652504
e:
mick@...
skype: mickmoignard
The week may start M,T but it always ends up WTF!


Brian Kopp
 

Nigel,
using wire as a third hand is a great idea. I am always positioning an alligator clip on a flex goose neck or trying some Kapton tape or just leaning pieces against each other. It never occurred to me to use some wire to strap a piece down. I have no excuse since I have a jeweler friend who does this all the time.... Just want to make sure I grab the dead-soft stainless steel wire and don't grab the tinned bus wire. That would make a mess.... =)

--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL


Climax@...
 

Mike, have you been spying on me, listening in and watching my tirades of looking for that blooming part only to find it across the room 6 months halter on?
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Nigel Phillips
Sent: Mar 11, 2021 9:05 AM
To: "HOn3@groups.io"
Subject: Re: [HOn3] HOn3 brass kits on Brasstrains today

Soldering iron versus resistance soldering. Difficult to build a brass kit using just one solder if using an iron. Can be done but takes a lot of patience. ideally start using high temperature solder for the major bits and then work down to the details using lower temperature solder. That way you don't melt previous work. Also needs a decent temperature controlled iron and some fine bits. Most kits I have built were not designed with a resistance iron in mind. Those old kits also suffer from less than precise etching (hand vs CAD) and often the wrong grade of brass. Detailing often uses metal castings, best put on with cyanoacrylate rather than solder. Easier than holding a dome in one hand, the iron in another, and the solder in the third one.

Old Korean and Japanese brass was often put together with a torch or large iron (non-electric), the assemblies being presoldered and held together with wire. 

On Wednesday, March 10, 2021, Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
Oh yeah, I can do that for about $4 ofnahwet brass and my old soldering iron!   And guess how I know? 😉

Mike Conder

On Wed, Mar 10, 2021 at 5:22 PM Brian Kopp <kc5lpa1@...> wrote:

But Mike! you are missing out on the joy...and the frustration......and the swearing.....and burned fingers.....and being on your knees looking for that detail you dropped......

THATS what $400 buys!  =)
--
Brian Kopp
Jacksonville, FL

--
Mike Conder


John Hutnick
 

I agree that different solder methods are needed.  I use 2 torches - air-acetylene and oxygen-propane.  Resistance is both tweezers and carbon probe.  Soldering iron/gun is for pre-tinning and wiring.  Typically I use a fair amount of 145C tin-lead-cadmium, otherwise tin/4 percent silver for higher temperature and a strong joint.  I see any number of UK construction articles where only an iron is used.  I do not know how they do it  -- I do not have this ability.  Also, for many in the US, the standards for solder joint appearance are different.  We want ours to emulate Japanese and Korean practice, with no excess and smooth solder fillet joints - no globs permitted.


Steve Hatch
 

I assembled several C-16's years ago both Hon3 and On3.
I used a 250-400 watt gun as well as a resistance unit.
and a butane torchThe resistance was much easier.
which ever iron you use, you need to get some aluminum wire.
That holds the parts together but will not solder.  Look for it.
It's around still.  Get the 1/16 wire if you can find it.  1/8th works in a pinch.
-Steve Hatch


martin feldwick
 

On smaller parts I use soft iron flower arranging wire .Its thin and very useful  .

On Fri, Mar 12, 2021 at 5:50 PM Steve Hatch <hatch@...> wrote:
I assembled several C-16's years ago both Hon3 and On3.
I used a 250-400 watt gun as well as a resistance unit.
and a butane torchThe resistance was much easier.
which ever iron you use, you need to get some aluminum wire.
That holds the parts together but will not solder.  Look for it.
It's around still.  Get the 1/16 wire if you can find it.  1/8th works in a pinch.
-Steve Hatch